Neighbors raising my utilities

[MichelleCarmen]

Ugh, okay this is frustrating. One of my neighbors is lying about how many people live in their unit. Because of that, by my calculations, we're paying $35 extra per month for water. Not a lot and I guess not enough worth complaining to the landlord and risking the neighbors finding out...if I send her an annonymous note, she'll know it's me b/c I've already called the billing co to find out the exact calulation AND she told me how many people she has documented living in our building! Sigh!

 

[swingirl]

For 35 bucks I'd complain. She's lying and the landlord should know who lives in the building.

 

[kelpie]

That really adds up over time when you think of all the other units being gypped too. I would request the landlord investigate the number of occupants since you have noticed several more people than they say. It's just not fair of them to make you subsidize their lifestyle.

 

[Indylady]

For one month, its not a lot, but since this is going to continue month after month, I think its worth complaining about.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Yeah...we're looking at $400-500 over the next year, assuming those people don't move out. Our apt is small. It's impossibly to comprehend more than a single family living there in that other unit. We're live here to save $, but now may move as soon as our lease is up...Everything is so expensive around here. Cannot find a rental house for under $1900 per month!

 

[dragonfly411]

I'd complain.

 

[Kaleigh]

Man, that does add up and not something I would take lightly. Speak up!!!

 

[Steel]

For me, it depends when your lease is up and if you are really going to move - if it is very soon and you couldn't be bothered with it all then just say nothing.

 

[Mara]

I'm just amazed you were able to sleuth that out all on your own!! That must take some serious skills.

It would bother me over time, but on the flip side, it is what it is. Plus...what if they use less water than other people because they know they have more people in there. Some people can use a ton of water and others not a lot. One person can easily use what 2 can depending on how they use it--aka long showers vs short, etc. You don't really know what the 'scenario' is.

Personally what would bother me more is that the whole building is splitting a water bill vs units having their own.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I'm just amazed you were able to sleuth that out all on your own!! That must take some serious skills.

It would bother me over time, but on the flip side, it is what it is. Plus...what if they use less water than other people because they know they have more people in there. Some people can use a ton of water and others not a lot. One person can easily use what 2 can depending on how they use it--aka long showers vs short, etc. You don't really know what the 'scenario' is.

Personally what would bother me more is that the whole building is splitting a water bill vs units having their own.

Well, I don't think they're conserving water. Basically we got a crazy bill of $165 for ONE month. I freaked and called the city to find out how much the total bill was (figured there was something shady going on) and they sent me a copy of the $908 water bill covering the last two months. So, with 11 tenants, billed monthly, each one currently is charged $41 (and so DH, kids and me get $165 per month). When we lived in our house, it came to $60 per month (billed every two months at $132ish). So if the other people are added in, it'll cut down on how much we're paying per our four-person household but still it's ridiculous!

There was a rumor going around that the owner planned to put in individual meters...I called the planning department and there hasn't been any application or any phone calls from her.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

For me, it depends when your lease is up and if you are really going to move - if it is very soon and you couldn't be bothered with it all then just say nothing.

Our lease will be up the end of August 2011. I actually was considering breaking the lease, but am afraid she'll come after us or something!

 

[lyra]

I would complain. You shouldn't be subsidizing anyone, and really, you might be subsidizing more than the one unit with everyone just sharing a common bill. Your actual usage may be much lower, and that's not fair. If this other family can't afford to pay for themselves then likely they'll leave anyway, won't they? I would definitely be looking for my next place though, this one sounds like it suffers from bad management and that's never good.

 

[Steel]

For me, it depends when your lease is up and if you are really going to move - if it is very soon and you couldn't be bothered with it all then just say nothing.

Our lease will be up the end of August 2011. I actually was considering breaking the lease, but am afraid she'll come after us or something!

Oct-Aug times $35 is sucky, but even if you do complain there is no guarantee anything will change so the neighbour pays her fair share.

BTW, How is your relationship with the landlady? You should always ask if you want something - you never know she could be itching to get you out to raise the rent for you or the next person come new-lease-September.

 

[charbie]

Personally, I would say something. But I'm not the type of person who ever will let something slide. I argue with umpires in my softball games.

On a serious note, that is going to end up being serious cash, and who cares if the neighbors get upset with you! It isn't like you are trying to be her best friend!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

For me, it depends when your lease is up and if you are really going to move - if it is very soon and you couldn't be bothered with it all then just say nothing.

Our lease will be up the end of August 2011. I actually was considering breaking the lease, but am afraid she'll come after us or something!

Oct-Aug times $35 is sucky, but even if you do complain there is no guarantee anything will change so the neighbour pays her fair share.

BTW, How is your relationship with the landlady? You should always ask if you want something - you never know she could be itching to get you out to raise the rent for you or the next person come new-lease-September.

We only just moved in on Sept. 1st so I barely know her. She uses 2nd parties for everything, so to get into the place, I worked with a realtor.

You may be right that things won't change if I complain. Seems everyone has complained and there is a lot of turnover here and there have been a few legal issues. The water co in the city recognized her name when I called them! Sigh! Oh and she has empty units so unless there is a huge issue - like us refusing to pay the bill - I'm betting she won't kick us out.

 

[megumic]

How many people are living in the unit?

I'd call the health department and tell them how many people are living there. Depending on your local code, only so many people are permitted to live in spaces, depending on their size. For example, my 3 bedroom, 1 bath duplex only permits a maximum of five occupants. We could certainly fit up to 10 if we wanted to, but it is not permitted by health code. That's one way to solve the issue.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

How many people are living in the unit?

I'd call the health department and tell them how many people are living there. Depending on your local code, only so many people are permitted to live in spaces, depending on their size. For example, my 3 bedroom, 1 bath duplex only permits a maximum of five occupants. We could certainly fit up to 10 if we wanted to, but it is not permitted by health code. That's one way to solve the issue.

Well, they have three cars and I've seen three guys...I'm not sure (so my above calculations may be slightly off) but I think five and one of my neighbors thinks 6. They have a townhome and we have an apt. (flat) but theirs is the same sq. feet as ours. Very small...Ours is too small for the four of us! I do think their layout is more conducive to having additional people. We only picked ours b/c I love all the windows and we have beautiful french glass doors that open out onto a bright deck which is facing south AND we're an end unit. It's sunny here and we have brilliant light today.

How many sq feet is your duplex?

ETA - the design of my building is such that there are three flats and one townhome. The flats all are on the ends and the townhome is scrunched inbetween us.

 

[VRBeauty]

A couple of thoughts -
Is that kind of cost sharing arrangement legal where you live, for individual units? (I don't think it is here.)
Did you get an estimate of utility costs before you moved in? Even if you didn't, does the broker that arranged for the rental have that information? If you did, and the bills ended up being much higher, I think you have grounds for a complaint.
Does the other tenant you've talked with have information about changes in the water charge over time, perhaps coinciding with a change of tenants in the townhouse?

I think you'd be well within your rights to complain to the landlord. She can't kick you out since you have a lease, so unless you're intent about staying there after your lease is up, you don't have much to lose.

On the other hand, I know this place is kind of a refuge for you and your kids, and I can understand your not wanting to do anything that might jeopardize that security and force you to move again, or that would make things uncomfortable between you and your landlady or neighbors. If you're hesitating because of those types of concerns, you could also use a less direct approach... i.e., tell her you're concerned about the spike in water rates, or how much you're paying now as compared what you paid in you prior home, and ask her to investigate the individual units and the mains for any leaks that could be causing the problem. Make it clear you think something has to be done and that this could cause you to look for another place to live. Best case, she looks into it and finds out things are not what she thought in the townhouse (although I'd bet that she's already aware or suspicious of that). Worst case, she just lets all the units know that she's had complaints about the water bills and asks them to be more careful... in effect putting the townhouse on notice to shape up or start looking for another place to live.

 

[labellavita81]

I would complain... why should you pay any more money then you have to?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

A couple of thoughts -
Is that kind of cost sharing arrangement legal where you live, for individual units? (I don't think it is here.)
Did you get an estimate of utility costs before you moved in? Even if you didn't, does the broker that arranged for the rental have that information? If you did, and the bills ended up being much higher, I think you have grounds for a complaint.
Does the other tenant you've talked with have information about changes in the water charge over time, perhaps coinciding with a change of tenants in the townhouse?

I think you'd be well within your rights to complain to the landlord. She can't kick you out since you have a lease, so unless you're intent about staying there after your lease is up, you don't have much to lose.

On the other hand, I know this place is kind of a refuge for you and your kids, and I can understand your not wanting to do anything that might jeopardize that security and force you to move again, or that would make things uncomfortable between you and your landlady or neighbors. If you're hesitating because of those types of concerns, you could also use a less direct approach... i.e., tell her you're concerned about the spike in water rates, or how much you're paying now as compared what you paid in you prior home, and ask her to investigate the individual units and the mains for any leaks that could be causing the problem. Make it clear you think something has to be done and that this could cause you to look for another place to live. Best case, she looks into it and finds out things are not what she thought in the townhouse (although I'd bet that she's already aware or suspicious of that). Worst case, she just lets all the units know that she's had complaints about the water bills and asks them to be more careful... in effect putting the townhouse on notice to shape up or start looking for another place to live.

Yes, it was a refuge, but we're doing good financially at this point. Our main issue is that where we want to move(in a more expensive part of the city) will require us to save up funds, which we're doing by sticking to a budget.

When we moved in, I made the hugest mistake of not calling the utility company to get an estimate of our water bill. I was just in such a hurry to get out of my inlaws, get the kids back into their school, and I really love the layout of the apt. The landlady uses a "third party," who I believe is actually her. Reason being, when I looked up the company, all I could find was a business license. No actual physical location. So when I called her, she refered me to that company and just explains the basic mathematical equation, then offered to send a copy of the utility bill, which the person did NOT do. I had to get it from the city. I also did call the rental agent and she said it is out of her hands.

I did find out she will go after anyone who breaks their lease. We could end up owing thousands! Ugh. More than the water bill is costing us. I can't wait to move, yet again!

 

[dragonfly411]

MC - I love you to death, but I have decided you are FAR to nice/lenient.

I would ask the landlord for a month by month breakdown of what I am paying in utilities and why. I'd then ask for her to compare the actual water usage with the other tenants.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

MC - I love you to death, but I have decided you are FAR to nice/lenient.

I would ask the landlord for a month by month breakdown of what I am paying in utilities and why. I'd then ask for her to compare the actual water usage with the other tenants.

She can't break the amounts down b/c there is only one water meter for the building. Two of neighbors said that she has talked of putting in seperate meters, so I called the water co and was refered to the planning department and they said no request has been put in, so as a result, we cannot determine who is using how much.

There are four units in my building but there are also two other buildings w/four units. She's been remodeling them and they all look amazing/awesome and I guess she thinks if that is the case, her tenants won't be as upset about the water bill.

My french doors and the lighting in here is so nice...one attribute to enjoy here in the Pac NW with all the grey weather. Need all the light I can get! That's what attracted me to the place.

Maybe I am too nice.

 

[dragonfly411]

MC - although that makes some sense, there should be some way for them to monitor how much flow is going through the individual pipelines.

 

[partgypsy]

All I can say is WOW that is alot. We have been averaging around $89 every TWO months for our water bill (4 people). That is high for us(paid less last year) but we had a dry summer and the kids love taking baths. You are paying close to 4x that amount. From past places you have lived, is that normal for your area?

 

[partgypsy]

Is there a way to have a monitor just for your area and just pay your part of the water bill? I don't know if there is a way, but I'd hate to pay other people's water bill, even if it was just 1 person living there who liked to take hour long showers.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

All I can say is WOW that is alot. We have been averaging around $89 every TWO months for our water bill (4 people). That is high for us(paid less last year) but we had a dry summer and the kids love taking baths. You are paying close to 4x that amount. From past places you have lived, is that normal for your area?

Well, the deal is we lived in the same city but a bit south and that part is a different water district (even though same city/different zip code)...so now we're actually IN the city vs. being south of the main part so the water here is the actual city of X, so the bill includes sewer/treatment, storm drainage, and a few other things. Where we lived before, all the sewer/water to be treated was sent to another city who also forks over more per month for everyone everywhere else...I've talked to other people in the city and most say theirs is high, but still not as high. One gal said she pays $300 every two months. I was paying $132 before and that was in a 2300/2400 sq ft house/four people.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Is there a way to have a monitor just for your area and just pay your part of the water bill? I don't know if there is a way, but I'd hate to pay other people's water bill, even if it was just 1 person living there who liked to take hour long showers.

The only way to monitor the water usage is for the planning dept to get involved and for the building owner/landlady to pay to help make individual meters.

There are three buildings of 4 units and our building had the lowest bill (probably b/c our unit was empty!).

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Grrr...now looks like I'll have to refrain from saying anything.

A few days back I was bringing in groceries and two individuals from the complex were outside talking and waved and we said hi. We'll, I had made a few trips out to my car and the second time out, one gave me a dirty look. Now, I've seen the other one twice and both times he glared at me and not waved back. Yesterday, other was outside and she made a weird comment to me about having gone to the grocery store two days in a row (which I do all the time!).

So...I'm on some sort of sh*t list among some of the people living here...for who knows what reason! Suddenly in the time span of me going upstairs to my apart and coming back out to unload the rest, they became mad. lol

This is just annoying. DH says to ignore him, but still gotta live here for 10 more months! Sigh!

 

[MonkeyPie]

Grrr...now looks like I'll have to refrain from saying anything.

A few days back I was bringing in groceries and two individuals from the complex were outside talking and waved and we said hi. We'll, I had made a few trips out to my car and the second time out, one gave me a dirty look. Now, I've seen the other one twice and both times he glared at me and not waved back. Yesterday, other was outside and she made a weird comment to me about having gone to the grocery store two days in a row (which I do all the time!).

So...I'm on some sort of sh*t list among some of the people living here...for who knows what reason! Suddenly in the time span of me going upstairs to my apart and coming back out to unload the rest, they became mad. lol

This is just annoying. DH says to ignore him, but still gotta live here for 10 more months! Sigh!

I don't get why this means you shouldn't say anything...? These people have no control over you, nor do they have any way of knowing you were the one to say something. It's your money - you should know where it's going.

 

[TravelingGal]

Grrr...now looks like I'll have to refrain from saying anything.

A few days back I was bringing in groceries and two individuals from the complex were outside talking and waved and we said hi. We'll, I had made a few trips out to my car and the second time out, one gave me a dirty look. Now, I've seen the other one twice and both times he glared at me and not waved back. Yesterday, other was outside and she made a weird comment to me about having gone to the grocery store two days in a row (which I do all the time!).

So...I'm on some sort of sh*t list among some of the people living here...for who knows what reason! Suddenly in the time span of me going upstairs to my apart and coming back out to unload the rest, they became mad. lol

This is just annoying. DH says to ignore him, but still gotta live here for 10 more months! Sigh!

MC, I actually don't know what your current living situation is. All I know is you moved yet again and you had some issues with your MIL before. I do know that I've LOST TRACK of how many times you moved and the reasons behind them. And every single place seemed to have some sort of issue - dirty looks from neighbors (I remember one didn't like the noise your boys made) and other drama.

At some point MC, you have to sit back and wonder if the common denominator in all this is you. Why would you neighbors give you stink eye for no reason? Or ARE they giving you stink eye? I don't know the situation, but all I know is that you've given moving companies lotsa mula! If your neighbors are not keen on you, then play nice, suck it up for 10 months and find somewhere with a LOT of land that you can put the house in the middle of....and keep the house small so your MIL can never stay over.

Good luck!