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Need to decide--what do you think of this H&A?

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terri

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
10
Hi--

Well, I am considering my options to replace my stolen wedding ring. Can anyone offer an opinion on the relative merits of this diamond? Have not seen pictures yet, just an AGS report. I am under some pressure to make a decision as I have placed in on hold and do not wish to hang people up.

H&A
1.007 carat mea. 6.49-6.52 x 3.98
D VS1
table 55%
depth 61.1
crown angle 34.8
crown percentage 15.7
pavillion angle 40.9
pavillion % 43
polish and symmetry ideal
girdle thin to medium faceted
culet pointed
flourescence negligible

Price roughly $8700 plus or minus

There are some inclusions on the outer edge at about 7
0 altho I could not see the report very clearly.

I have also been offered a GIA certified diamond that is larger but lower in quality. It is 1.5 carats, SI1 (sort of a red flag), 55% table, good porportions, EXEX, girdle thin to medium, no flourescence, and priced at $9,500.

Should I get independent verification or can I rely on the AGS report? Any idea what is involved in terms of time and cost to get an independent appraisal?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Hi Terri!


Well the diamond you are considering scored well on the HCA at 1.7 EX VG VG VG so that is a good sign. The cut seems to be very good from the numbers you posted--though you may be inclined to try to find a stone with more EX than VG on the HCA if you have other stone options.

The price is a little steep however, maybe because of the D color, maybe combined with the VS1 clarity. Is this an online purchase with Whiteflash? I found the same stone on their search. I would guess you are maybe paying a bit of a premium for the ACA status as other similar D VS 1.00-1.04c stones (AGS 0) with other similar vendors are around $8100-8400.

The second stone for 1.51 for $9500 is an amazing price..the SI1 is not a negative factor for me as long as the stone is eye-clean. If you can't see the inclusion, it doesn't matter if its VVS or SI. What is the color of this stone? Do you have more specs on it? Crown and pavilion angle are a must to determine what sort of cut it is. The AGS certs are nice since they have that information on there, but GIA does not. You may have to ask for a Sarin report from the jeweler.

If you have considered shopping online, you can get some great deals, though that 1.51 SI1 stone you mention sounds like a steal at $9500, depending on the cut, and also the color.

Hope this helps a little! Give as much info as you can and people will help out.

 

terri

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
10
Thanks Mara. The SI1 stone is a D color. Other than round brilliant don't have cut info yet. And besides, I don't have my "Idealscope" yet :^).

My husband, who usually counsels restraint in these things, is keen on the 1.5 carat stone in theory at least. The vendor sells at 10% above his cost for the stone. So I don't know if that is any indication of its value or lack of, but that is where things stand.

Thank you for your observations re value.
 

69gm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2003
Messages
287
i agree with mara. try to get more info on the second stone. anytime you get a GIA stone, you need an accompanying Sarin so you can make a more educated decision. any jeweler who tell you you don't need a Sarin isn't worth talking to because they've pretty much just told you "i'm clueless when it comes to diamonds".
 

terri

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
10
OK, I can forget about the sI1 at 1.5 carats for reasons I won't ennumerate.

I have been wishing I paid more attention in HS Geometry until I discovered the HCA calculator :^). Yippeee.

OK, so I have narrowed my search to the VS1 D mentioned above and another VS1 D I have found for a little less. It is 1.010 and scores 0.8 (all excellent) on the HCA and the one mentioned above scores mostly very good with an overall score of 1.7 (thank you Mara for introducing me to this concept, I had overlooked it on the tutorial).

However, the vendor sent me a firescope pix of the first diamond and there is virtually no light leakage and the hearts and arrows are pretty spiffy. This newest find, tho, is considered a third rate H&A (so described by its vendor) and has some light leakage. Finally, the inclusions are far more numerous on the first diamond and minimal on the second (or so it seems).

Gosh campers, I am really getting confused! How can a third rate H&A get such a strong HCA and the more pristine H&A is so much lower in score on the HCA scale? Oh I knew that cutting HS Geometry would be my undoing someday.

Help, help...help..help...
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
It is a White Flash A Cut Above.

At the website for the diamond, you can click on the AGS Cert # and get a clear image of the Cert.

Down toward the bottom of the page is a Sarin Technologies Logo. Click on that link and you will see the Sarin Report. There's .4 degree total variance (high to low) on the upper facets and only .2 degrees variance on the lower facets.

I can't tell from the Cert exactly what type inclusion is on the outer edge. You might want to call White Flash. Brian Gavin, the cutter, will physically pull the diamond out and discuss it with you over the phone.

Very nice folks at White Flash with very good return, buy-back, and upgrade policies!

Good luck in your search.
 

terri

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
10
Yes, this I know. What I do not understand is why a branded H&A has such a weaker score on the HCA calculator vs. an unbranded diamond. I sort of thought the H&A/branded diamond would be a stronger finisher on the HCA. I don't understand how this all hangs together. I am probably not making any sense.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Terri....the H&A stone you are considering is an A Cut Above branded stone. That means that it is considered a superideal stone. The way they get that amazing no light leakage IdealScope/FireScope image is by tweaking minor facets to eliminate light leakage along the edges. The reason that the HCA gives it a lower scoring (not as good) is I believe because of that same tweaking, the HCA takes #'s into account, and the #'s for ACA's are usually a little off from a typical well HCA performing H&A stone. So an unbranded stone will do better on the HCA normally (plug in more stones and you will see)...but you will see that typical light leakage along the edges as you would with many other unbranded H&A or even branded H&A's that are not superideal in this way.

I have heard that ACA's look different in person than regular H&A's...they have shorter facets that seem to throw off sharper flashes of light and fire as opposed to other H&A's or non superideal stones which have longer facets. Do you like the idea of no light leakage and 99.9% light return to your eyes? Or do you not mind more light leakage for a more traditional look?

Run some searches on A Cut Above and WhiteFlash and read about what the differences are. ACA's are supposed to be very beautiful in person, but I believe Rhino from GOG has noted a few times that it seems people tend to prefer one look over the other....so it may take seeing a regular H&A branded stone against an ACA to make the final decision for you on such a big purchase.

Keep in mind also that HCA is not the end-all-be-all God of Diamond Scoring. It's one tool to use amongst many. I can tell you that many people have purchased ACA's (see their pictures in the Eye Candy forum) and been amazed at the beauty. Just as others have purchased either branded or unbranded H&A's and been stunned the same way. Chances are, all of this is really splitting hairs. A 1.7 HCA score vs a 0.8 still means darn good. But as you get closer to the 2.0 mark or if it is an ACA as you noted, you don't get all EX EX...but rather more VG's.

Possibly see if WF has another similar stone that scores higher on the HCA. Then you can have the best of both worlds and peace of mind? Or keep looking until you feel satisfied. You still have alot to learn--it can take a while to absorb all of the nuances of excellently cut stones. Don't jump into a purchase too soon and regret it later!

Best of luck...hope this helps.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Mara is right, Terri.

The HCA is just a tool to weed out bad performers. From there, it's really up to your personal taste preference. Sometimes diamonds don't have the Ex/Ex/Ex/Ex HCA score but are veeerrrrry beautiful performers. Even when compared to a diamond that has all Ex's on the HCA. Nothing can replace your own eyes in selecting a diamond.

Because the cut is sooooo refined, ACA's reflect back every spec of light that enters the diamond. Bright light, candlelight, regular home lighting. ACA's are not "dead" diamonds. They give off vibrant, eye catching flashes of white light and flashes of color.

You can always take a look and see for yourself. White Flash has a very good return policy. They stand behind their product. I took 2 ACA's to preview, chose one, and got a very prompt refund on the one I did not select. The folks at White Flash know ultimately the customer has to be pleased with the diamond!
 
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