shape
carat
color
clarity

need honest opinions of a sapphire

Have you
heard of gemrockauctions.com?

Gemrockauctions is not a bad place per se. They have some vetting procedures implemented and a list of labs approved as reputable. But they are a marketplace. Meaning, when you buy on the site you don't buy from them, you buy from whatever vendor is using their platform. So it's a very much buyer beware type of situation because while, yes, you can generally expect the stones to not be cheap fakes, you also have no guarantee the photos and videos have not been manipulated.

In general, when you see a stone that sells for less than what you'd expect to, try to identify the reason - there usually is one and you want to be aware of it before you pay the money.
 
IMG_6465.jpeg
Left field suggestion.
Sapphire but no lab report stating it’s a pad that’ll up the price.
The vendor is trustworthy. As in they aren’t a flyby night.
I don’t know what a return from your locale and what’s involved with that will entail, though.

I think the gamble is what color it looks to your naked eye in your hand . It could be what you are wanting to see
I like the orangey-brown hue within the pink. It reminds me of a sunset, which is the look I'm going for

I think the pink in the listing photo may not nearly be as apparent IRL. (I have purchased stones from him that this was certainly the case, but it was zircon not sapphire)
It may ‘brown out’ in its desaturation.
It may also register as mauve, instead. That’s the gamble.

It’s got a window but not nearly as much as your first linked stone. But it may be off center - and as elongated as it is that may be too wonky to one’s eye.

As I said. It’s a gamble of a sort. I bring this up because if you aren’t looking for something that’s remotely close to trade ideal (and I’m just commenting that based on the vendors glamour photo) - the amount you are paying for that lab cert still calling it a Pad, if that’s the driving ambition in a purchase - there’s little retained value down the line in that for you and I as consumers. For stones that are remarkably far from said trade ideal.

Because what you see in your hand vs incredibly hard to photograph stones in pictures on your monitor that don’t portray it that well sometimes (often?) - is really what matters. I’m interested to hear what you think of the Skygem stone once you get it. Hope you do come back to share your thoughts and your photos, too. The thread ‘vendor photos compared to your photos’ is a lovely place to talk about photos vs what you see once in hand.


 
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Im glad youre going to see it in person. But I suspect you won't like it. Its pink, not orange-pink. And the price is outrageous (as is everything from sky gems). They are an absurd vendor who usually say insane things about how their pieces are "investments" or "incredible" when they're actually mediocre at best. So I strongly dislike tjem due to their dishonesty.

I wojld buy from almost anyone else before buying from sky gems.
 
IMG_6465.jpeg
Left field suggestion.
Sapphire but no lab report stating it’s a pad that’ll up the price.
The vendor is trustworthy. As in they aren’t a flyby night.
I don’t know what a return from your locale and what’s involved with that will entail, though.

I think the gamble is what color it looks to your naked eye in your hand . It could be what you are wanting to see


I think the pink in the listing photo may not nearly be as apparent IRL. (I have purchased stones from him that this was certainly the case, but it was zircon not sapphire)
It may ‘brown out’ in its desaturation.
It may also register as mauve, instead. That’s the gamble.

It’s got a window but not nearly as much as your first linked stone. But it may be off center - and as elongated as it is that may be too wonky to one’s eye.

As I said. It’s a gamble of a sort. I bring this up because if you aren’t looking for something that’s remotely close to trade ideal (and I’m just commenting that based on the vendors glamour photo) - the amount you are paying for that lab cert still calling it a Pad, if that’s the driving ambition in a purchase - there’s little retained value down the line in that for you and I as consumers. For stones that are remarkably far from said trade ideal.

Because what you see in your hand vs incredibly hard to photograph stones in pictures on your monitor that don’t portray it that well sometimes (often?) - is really what matters. I’m interested to hear what you think of the Skygem stone once you get it. Hope you do come back to share your thoughts and your photos, too. The thread ‘vendor photos compared to your photos’ is a lovely place to talk about photos vs what you see once in hand.



I really like your left field suggestion...because in all honesty I couldn't care less about a "cert". I just want to be certain it's a true natural sapphire. And I think you've given me pause for thought because that would lower the price quite a bit. The only big problem I have with that site is that I NEED to be able to return it without any hassles because to me I feel like you can only truly all in love with a gem once you're holding it in your hands. As you said, monitors, pictures, etc don't always show the true look (more like never!).
I'll post photos of the original stone I received lower in the thread later if you're curious. But thanks for those original suggestions I will certainly take them into account.
 
Im glad youre going to see it in person. But I suspect you won't like it. Its pink, not orange-pink. And the price is outrageous (as is everything from sky gems). They are an absurd vendor who usually say insane things about how their pieces are "investments" or "incredible" when they're actually mediocre at best. So I strongly dislike tjem due to their dishonesty.

I wojld buy from almost anyone else before buying from sky gems.

Thanks for this honest opinion of skyjems! I needed this. I'll post photos soon.
 
So I received the original sapphire from skyjems. Here it is on my own hand. First impressions:
Positives
1. I still find the color very beautiful - I am sorry but I don't see no brown or whatever some people are seeing (I guess in the original photos on the website it seemed more brownish but not in the videos.) I really do love the color - it's more delicate than fiery but I don't hate that balance. I certainly can see some padparadscha caracteristics in it. And to my surprise it's not even too muted in indoor indirect light settings.
If I had to improve anything color-wise I would like a tad more orange and make the color a more vivid! I want lots of color.

Negatives
1. Never thought this would be an issue, but I was surprised at how small it is and I think I'd like to go bigger to really bring out the beauty! I feel this size doesn't show enough of the gem's beauty especially color intricacies. You need a magnifying glass lol. I'm not sure what size is a good balance to put on a 3 stone ring without making it bulky or too "show-offy" ( that is NOT what I want) but I guess I'll have to go up a bit to 1-1.25 carats.
2. Those that mentioned the large window were correct - it is very noticeable and I would prefer smaller though not my primary concern.
3. Those that mentioned the pricing was ridiculous were also correct! Yes I find it beautiful but for the size in person and flaws, I am not paying 2,700$ CAD. At 1,000$ I would have seriously considered it though.
What are your thoughts?
So for all of you helping me find something better, I think we went too far into the brown tinted categories. Keep this stone in mind for any recommendations. I'm looking for a pink-orange blend, just a warm one - sunset or sunrise tones not cool pink. As someone said, peachy is a good description too.
And as previously stated, I absolutely HAVE to be able to return anything I am not satisfied with without too much hassle, and that's not easy being in Canada. (Hence why I started with skyjems based in Toronto).
Thanks!
 

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Never too frank! Although I would respectfully disagree, I like the orangey-brown hue within the pink. It reminds me of a sunset, which is the look I'm going for, but you are probably correct in the details and pricing being less-than great. So thanks for your comment!

We always suggest buying what you like, but if we're being technically... any stone with a brown modifier (which tends to be material from Tanzania and Madagascar) should be precluded from padparadscha designation. Some labs, including the GIA, are rather generous with the term. Yellow is also something you want to avoid (which the stone in your OP has as well). As others have pointed out, along with poor hue and saturation, it also has a terrible cut (massive window) and poor clarity. And then the price is absurd for what you're getting (we're not big fans of that seller here on PS). I implore you to look elsewhere (and maybe shoot for Sir Lankan origin). I think you can achieve the "sunset" color you're after (my favorite variety too) by going for a pinkish-orange in a medium tone (sans brown). You've gotten some great alternatives from other PSers. I'm on the road, so I can't browse at the moment. But I wanted to wish you and your wife a very Happy Anniversary! The perfect stone is out there!!
 
So I received the original sapphire from skyjems. Here it is on my own hand. First impressions:
Positives
1. I still find the color very beautiful - I am sorry but I don't see no brown or whatever some people are seeing (I guess in the original photos on the website it seemed more brownish but not in the videos.) I really do love the color - it's more delicate than fiery but I don't hate that balance. I certainly can see some padparadscha caracteristics in it. And to my surprise it's not even too muted in indoor indirect light settings.
If I had to improve anything color-wise I would like a tad more orange and make the color a more vivid! I want lots of color.

Negatives
1. Never thought this would be an issue, but I was surprised at how small it is and I think I'd like to go bigger to really bring out the beauty! I feel this size doesn't show enough of the gem's beauty especially color intricacies. You need a magnifying glass lol. I'm not sure what size is a good balance to put on a 3 stone ring without making it bulky or too "show-offy" ( that is NOT what I want) but I guess I'll have to go up a bit to 1-1.25 carats.
2. Those that mentioned the large window were correct - it is very noticeable and I would prefer smaller though not my primary concern.
3. Those that mentioned the pricing was ridiculous were also correct! Yes I find it beautiful but for the size in person and flaws, I am not paying 2,700$ CAD. At 1,000$ I would have seriously considered it though.
What are your thoughts?
So for all of you helping me find something better, I think we went too far into the brown tinted categories. Keep this stone in mind for any recommendations. I'm looking for a pink-orange blend, just a warm one - sunset or sunrise tones not cool pink. As someone said, peachy is a good description too.
And as previously stated, I absolutely HAVE to be able to return anything I am not satisfied with without too much hassle, and that's not easy being in Canada. (Hence why I started with skyjems based in Toronto).
Thanks!

You know what, the stone is definitely not as bad in person as it looked in the listing! Both the color and clarity look better. Man, they need a more capable photographer. That being said, I do still see a coppery-brown hue (no yellow though, which is good). I don't think the AGL would ever designate that stone as a pad (unfortunately, I know this from experience... lol). Were your photos taken in natural light? Pads live or die by that light source, IMO. In any event, it sounds like you're disappointed in the size, cut, and price, so best to return it and keep hunting!
 
So I received the original sapphire from skyjems. Here it is on my own hand. First impressions:
Positives
1. I still find the color very beautiful - I am sorry but I don't see no brown or whatever some people are seeing (I guess in the original photos on the website it seemed more brownish but not in the videos.) I really do love the color - it's more delicate than fiery but I don't hate that balance. I certainly can see some padparadscha caracteristics in it. And to my surprise it's not even too muted in indoor indirect light settings.
If I had to improve anything color-wise I would like a tad more orange and make the color a more vivid! I want lots of color.

Negatives
1. Never thought this would be an issue, but I was surprised at how small it is and I think I'd like to go bigger to really bring out the beauty! I feel this size doesn't show enough of the gem's beauty especially color intricacies. You need a magnifying glass lol. I'm not sure what size is a good balance to put on a 3 stone ring without making it bulky or too "show-offy" ( that is NOT what I want) but I guess I'll have to go up a bit to 1-1.25 carats.
2. Those that mentioned the large window were correct - it is very noticeable and I would prefer smaller though not my primary concern.
3. Those that mentioned the pricing was ridiculous were also correct! Yes I find it beautiful but for the size in person and flaws, I am not paying 2,700$ CAD. At 1,000$ I would have seriously considered it though.
What are your thoughts?
So for all of you helping me find something better, I think we went too far into the brown tinted categories. Keep this stone in mind for any recommendations. I'm looking for a pink-orange blend, just a warm one - sunset or sunrise tones not cool pink. As someone said, peachy is a good description too.
And as previously stated, I absolutely HAVE to be able to return anything I am not satisfied with without too much hassle, and that's not easy being in Canada. (Hence why I started with skyjems based in Toronto).
Thanks!

Am a newbie in faceted gems, and yeah I think color works a bit different in this world. Sometimes sellers label something as like… “greenish” or some color and I’m just like ????? Where’s the green?? But i think it’s just a very specific trace amount in combination with other colors and we just need to really learn how to detect it haha. Training the eyes.

Pads are famous for pink and orange, and I’ve heard people say brown is just “dark orange” or something with saturation haha

Oh but yeah I think the window bugs me the most. Not the color or anything.
 
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Pads are famous for pink and orange, and I’ve heard people say brown is just “dark orange” or something with saturation haha

That's an astute observation! Brown (warm) and gray (cool) are not "hues" you'll typically find on a color wheel. So when we speak of modifiers (obviously not including truly brown gems like zircon, chocolate diamond, or smoky quartz), it has more to do with low saturation. This is why finding a pad without any brown is so special. It's almost an anomaly to see that with a lighter tone, lower saturation stone.
 
We always suggest buying what you like, but if we're being technically... any stone with a brown modifier (which tends to be material from Tanzania and Madagascar) should be precluded from padparadscha designation. Some labs, including the GIA, are rather generous with the term. Yellow is also something you want to avoid (which the stone in your OP has as well). As others have pointed out, along with poor hue and saturation, it also has a terrible cut (massive window) and poor clarity. And then the price is absurd for what you're getting (we're not big fans of that seller here on PS). I implore you to look elsewhere (and maybe shoot for Sir Lankan origin). I think you can achieve the "sunset" color you're after (my favorite variety too) by going for a pinkish-orange in a medium tone (sans brown). You've gotten some great alternatives from other PSers. I'm on the road, so I can't browse at the moment. But I wanted to wish you and your wife a very Happy Anniversary! The perfect stone is out there!!

Thank you so much for the instructive and kind words.
 
I’ve heard people say brown is just “dark orange” or something with saturation haha
That's an astute observation! Brown (warm) and gray (cool) are not "hues" you'll typically find on a color wheel. So when we speak of modifiers (obviously not including truly brown gems like zircon, chocolate diamond, or smoky quartz), it has more to do with low saturation. This is why finding a pad without any brown is so special. It's almost an anomaly to see that with a lighter tone, lower saturation stone.

It's not quite on topic, but yes, brown is 'just' dark orange (or dark yellow-orange-red). Even when the darkness is illusory...
AdelsonIllusion.jpg

The glowing 'orange' spot and the 'brown' spot are the same screen colour. (Check the RGB values if you doubt it!) The 'squares' they sit on are also the same screen colour. (Again, check the RGB values.) It's the difference in illusory brightness that makes one look orange and the other brown.
 
It's not quite on topic, but yes, brown is 'just' dark orange (or dark yellow-orange-red). Even when the darkness is illusory...
AdelsonIllusion.jpg

The glowing 'orange' spot and the 'brown' spot are the same screen colour. (Check the RGB values if you doubt it!) The 'squares' they sit on are also the same screen colour. (Again, check the RGB values.) It's the difference in illusory brightness that makes one look orange and the other brown.

:eek2:
 

I like the first one's color (it looks brown in the first pic, but in the videos and hand pix it looks great). Again though, you have a large window in there... are you ok with that? Cutting defects ultimately cause a loss of brilliance.
 
So I received the original sapphire from skyjems. Here it is on my own hand. First impressions:
Positives
1. I still find the color very beautiful - I am sorry but I don't see no brown or whatever some people are seeing (I guess in the original photos on the website it seemed more brownish but not in the videos.) I really do love the color - it's more delicate than fiery but I don't hate that balance. I certainly can see some padparadscha caracteristics in it. And to my surprise it's not even too muted in indoor indirect light settings.
If I had to improve anything color-wise I would like a tad more orange and make the color a more vivid! I want lots of color.

Negatives
1. Never thought this would be an issue, but I was surprised at how small it is and I think I'd like to go bigger to really bring out the beauty! I feel this size doesn't show enough of the gem's beauty especially color intricacies. You need a magnifying glass lol. I'm not sure what size is a good balance to put on a 3 stone ring without making it bulky or too "show-offy" ( that is NOT what I want) but I guess I'll have to go up a bit to 1-1.25 carats.
2. Those that mentioned the large window were correct - it is very noticeable and I would prefer smaller though not my primary concern.
3. Those that mentioned the pricing was ridiculous were also correct! Yes I find it beautiful but for the size in person and flaws, I am not paying 2,700$ CAD. At 1,000$ I would have seriously considered it though.
What are your thoughts?
So for all of you helping me find something better, I think we went too far into the brown tinted categories. Keep this stone in mind for any recommendations. I'm looking for a pink-orange blend, just a warm one - sunset or sunrise tones not cool pink. As someone said, peachy is a good description too.
And as previously stated, I absolutely HAVE to be able to return anything I am not satisfied with without too much hassle, and that's not easy being in Canada. (Hence why I started with skyjems based in Toronto).
Thanks!

Oh wow your photos look significantly better than the vendor’s photos!

Can’t help you with colour as I think colour is very personal and it looks like there’s a very specific shade that you like. I’m seeing brown in all the stones posted but that’s just me.

Others may have a different point of view on this but I often find that an easy return policy is baked into the price so keep in mind that if you can return it easily, it’s probably not going to be the most well priced gem.

Can definitely empathise with you about size. My bestie purchased a 2 carat padparadscha and flipped out about how small it actually was when she received it. She got used to it and all the measurements were correct but it did shock her at first (especially since she’s used to seeing 5ct plus gems normally).

I like the first option you posted from the natural sapphire company. Price seems ok as well.
 
I really like your left field suggestion...because in all honesty I couldn't care less about a "cert". I just want to be certain it's a true natural sapphire. And I think you've given me pause for thought because that would lower the price quite a bit. The only big problem I have with that site is that I NEED to be able to return it without any hassles because to me I feel like you can only truly all in love with a gem once you're holding it in your hands. As you said, monitors, pictures, etc don't always show the true look (more like never!).
I'll post photos of the original stone I received lower in the thread later if you're curious. But thanks for those original suggestions I will certainly take them into account.

You don’t care about the cert…but you want to be sure it’s a natural sapphire :mrgreen: These two statements are a bit of contradiction
 
Hi,
I'm new to the gemstone thing, I've done quite a bit of online research but feel I need some honest opinions of people that know more than I do before making a big purchase. I'm looking for a padparadsha sapphire to have set in a ring for my wife for our anniversary.
I found this one from skygems.ca that I like, but want to know if the price is fair or outrageous for what it is.
The owner was kind enough to make a special video in different lighting for me.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1wn2...51-1.mp4?rlkey=11fhrqyv5mpj1aqurqc35a62w&dl=0
I've seen some pretty ones on thenaturalsapphirecompany.com too but was told by a couple people that they might not be as authentic etc etc.
What do you sapphire-knowledgeable people think of this?
asking price is 2,700$ CAD (2,000$ USD roughly)
I want something that pops color-wise that's my main thing - not too concerned with the other specs - it's all about color saturation and intricacies, Maybe a little sparkle doesn't hurt either. :)
Please be honest and if you have better sources to recommend for a lower price, that's very welcome!
It's a huge investment for myself (with the setting in a ring).
thanks so much appreciated!
Alex

This stone is overpriced, unattractive, and has a large window.
 
Only gonna wear my rings in the shade now. Wait...that won't work either. Gotta wear them in some sort of fake shade...

This is pretty much how standard gemstone cuts actually work! It's not so much that your hand is in fake shade, but that the stone is in fake brightness.

Your hand, a diffuse reflector, reflects light from the whole hemisphere in front it. Your visual system uses this to judge the ambient brightness. Gemstones are cut to reflect light from behind the viewer, but from narrower rather than wider angles. This light is usually brighter than the average from the whole hemisphere (because light usually comes from above). So facets that catch this light are effectively in fake brightness.

This is why faceted gemstones can look magically bright - facets that catch the light can look brighter than is physically possible for normal diffusely reflecting objects. The effect is especially magical for naturally darker colours, as in rubies and darker blue sapphires. They seem to glow.

The opposite can happen. I find that my orange rings look brown when I'm outside under an umbrella. This was quite disconcerting until I realized what was happening. The umbrella blocks light from close angles behind my head. So the stone is effectively seeing darker than ambient light. Hence the brown.

This story is also what's behind the standard advice to judge gemstone body colour in soft even light.

Apologies for this digression, @alexclusif. Normal service will now be resumed...
 
This is pretty much how standard gemstone cuts actually work! It's not so much that your hand is in fake shade, but that the stone is in fake brightness.

Your hand, a diffuse reflector, reflects light from the whole hemisphere in front it. Your visual system uses this to judge the ambient brightness. Gemstones are cut to reflect light from behind the viewer, but from narrower rather than wider angles. This light is usually brighter than the average from the whole hemisphere (because light usually comes from above). So facets that catch this light are effectively in fake brightness.

This is why faceted gemstones can look magically bright - facets that catch the light can look brighter than is physically possible for normal diffusely reflecting objects. The effect is especially magical for naturally darker colours, as in rubies and darker blue sapphires. They seem to glow.

The opposite can happen. I find that my orange rings look brown when I'm outside under an umbrella. This was quite disconcerting until I realized what was happening. The umbrella blocks light from close angles behind my head. So the stone is effectively seeing darker than ambient light. Hence the brown.

This story is also what's behind the standard advice to judge gemstone body colour in soft even light.

Apologies for this digression, @alexclusif. Normal service will now be resumed...

no apologies needed - always good to learn something new!
 
It's not a sapphire, but the orange-pink sunset color with gold flashes from this 5 ct gem reminded me of what you'd asked for, and it's on a super deep discount with the sale that Mastercutgems is holding right now. This thing will have crazy fire almost like a diamond, and the cut-corner square brilliant cut will only make it more brilliant looking IRL. This is eye clean and untreated material with no windows. It will really glow in warm indoor or candlelight in a way that very few other gems do. The colors on these tend to shift a bit, so it may look more pad pink/orange in some contexts and more golden in others. The deal is ridiculously cheap for a much larger stone than you've been looking at, and the dealer is reputable and very easy to work with.


42047.jpg
 
It's not a sapphire, but the orange-pink sunset color with gold flashes from this 5 ct gem reminded me of what you'd asked for, and it's on a super deep discount with the sale that Mastercutgems is holding right now. This thing will have crazy fire almost like a diamond, and the cut-corner square brilliant cut will only make it more brilliant looking IRL. This is eye clean and untreated material with no windows. It will really glow in warm indoor or candlelight in a way that very few other gems do. The colors on these tend to shift a bit, so it may look more pad pink/orange in some contexts and more golden in others. The deal is ridiculously cheap for a much larger stone than you've been looking at, and the dealer is reputable and very easy to work with.


42047.jpg

Price is great, but man if that video is true to life, that rock is just plain brown in my eyes - not seeing any pink or orange there...fire yes. I really want a sapphire though.
 
That's true. You'll see what you see in the photo in some light and what you see in the video in other light. Most padparadscha sapphires with orange modifiers will look brown in some indoor lighting, but dealers won't show you photos of them in that lighting. Mastercut Gems is one of the few dealers whose photos and videos are close to reality, and they offer multiple lighting contexts while most dealers (almost every dealer on Gem Rock Auctions) only show the gem in tightly controlled studio lighting or edited photos that make them look more vivid and hide inclusions.

Even though you don't like that stone, I'd recommend perusing the sapphires on Mastercut Gems and asking Dana if they have any padparadscha rough. You might be able to find something larger than you have been looking at or something in the elusive true pad pink variety. Best of luck
 
Most padparadscha sapphires with orange modifiers will look brown in some indoor lighting
Ones with reports?
Which lab(s) would this be true for, over others do you think? Or All?

If you have done your own Pad journey and have pictures - that’d be lovely to see if you’d care to share.
 
That's true. You'll see what you see in the photo in some light and what you see in the video in other light. Most padparadscha sapphires with orange modifiers will look brown in some indoor lighting, but dealers won't show you photos of them in that lighting. Mastercut Gems is one of the few dealers whose photos and videos are close to reality, and they offer multiple lighting contexts while most dealers (almost every dealer on Gem Rock Auctions) only show the gem in tightly controlled studio lighting or edited photos that make them look more vivid and hide inclusions.

Even though you don't like that stone, I'd recommend perusing the sapphires on Mastercut Gems and asking Dana if they have any padparadscha rough. You might be able to find something larger than you have been looking at or something in the elusive true pad pink variety. Best of luck

Good to know! Thanks for the recommendation.
 
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