Need Help!

[jd2014]

Hi everyone, new to the forum and new to really looking at diamonds. I have been looking for rings for my current girlfriend for quite some time and finally decided on one last week. Unfortunately, no pictures yet but the specs are as follows: 1.8, G, VS1, Round, Triple X w/ Medium Blue Flourescence. After looking at 20 - 30 diamonds through various jeweler's, I finally decided on one w/ the "MB" flourescense (even though I was originally looking for NONE) mainly b/c of the size, specs, etc. and to be honest, in the store, I could not tell the difference. So anyway, here is my dilemna. I finally got it, and it looks great. I've been testing it under numerous lightings just to see how it reacts. Outdoors right now the thing looks white as ice (unfortunately it's been overcast so I haven't seen it on a sunny day yet), other well light rooms it looks good as well. However, I'm sitting in my apartment (where the lighting is really dim and yellowish setting) and last night wheN that was the only light on in the apartment the diamond looked 100% yellow! I started freaking out since I was hoping to do it this weekend. So my question is whether this is normal under these types of dim light settings? This may be stupid question, but keep in mind I am a guy who didn't spend too much time looking at rings my entire life and my only comparison is the jewerly store where everything looks great. Fortunately, I have a 90 day fully exchangeable/refundable w/ the location I purchased it, so it's not as if I a stuck between a rock and a hard place. PlEASE HELP!

 

[teobdl]

No idea what that would be other than the diamond reflecting back yellow light at your eyes.

What might be an issue is color entrapment or leakage but I don't know if either would completely explain the phenomenon you described. Do you have the Gia report? Can you post the angles listed?

White paper looks yellow in yellow light. Might just be the same thing.

 

[proto]

Stick it under a UV lamp in a dark room and see if it glows yellow.

While blue is the most likely colour for fluorescence, it may be many colours, including yellow.

 

[Lorelei]

Stick it under a UV lamp in a dark room and see if it glows yellow.

While blue is the most likely colour for fluorescence, it may be many colours, including yellow.

This is definitely worth checking as Proto suggests, although blue fluorescence is quite common, he is quite right in mentioning that different colour fluorescence exists, I don't see this that often here but there has been the odd occasion we have had some yellow, a red and green if I remember rightly, traffic light fluoro!

It's hard to know exactly what's going on here, it's possible the diamond is picking up the colour from your yellowish walls but it is not normally as noticeable an effect as you describe... I would go back to the jewellers and ask them if they can test it under UV light, also check the report, even if it says fluorescence medium blue or something similar it is of course possible an error was made with the colour.

Try not to worry, it will be sorted out but first thing I would suggest doing is getting a test on the fluorescence to make sure it is actually blue!

 

[jd2014]

Here is the GIA. So ask them to put it under a UV light? I took it out in a sunny day today and it looked good, no yellow or haziness. I noticed a little blue twinkle in some angles, but it looked pretty ice! Maybe I am overreacting.

 

[jd2014]

GIA

 

[jd2014]

The missing number is a 7.77 on the measurements

 

[Lorelei]

Here is the GIA. So ask them to put it under a UV light? I took it out in a sunny day today and it looked good, no yellow or haziness. I noticed a little blue twinkle in some angles, but it looked pretty ice! Maybe I am overreacting.

It's possible you overreacted, I know I am a champion at doing that myself! But it might be good to check, a UV light is what's needed and it might be best to take it back to the jeweller you purchased it from, even if you just ask them to test it to humour you just so you know for sure with the fluorescence. I would imagine an error with recording the colour of the fluorescence would be extremely rare but as blue is the predominant colour, I suppose it's possible that a typo could have been made, but I am just speculating here. But no harm in testing the stone at all to be sure. Otherwise it could be if you have yellowish walls and the light hit it just right that yellow is what you saw. Colour entrapment might be another possibility with such a deep pavilion angle, I would expect that to be the case with an I or J colour in this size, G not so much but it is something to think about. You could find a stone with better proportions as that pavilion is deep and the pavilion is one of the main engines driving the light return of a diamond, maybe something to think about.

 

[jd2014]

Ok, thanks, it's more as I just put it under the light, it's yellowish at all times (not just a flinch). Just out of curiousity, what would you say is market price for the diamond I posted? Now I am wondering if I overpaid.

 

[Dreamer_D]

One of the wonderful things about diamonds is the way they reflect ambient color. I notice that yellow is the color most easily reflected, and taupe walls or ceiling in particular can make a diamond look positively brown! I am fairly sure this is what you noticed. If you don't like how the stone looks in that environment, then don't propose in a yellow place

Price: There is a search tool at the top of the PS forum page. You can look for online comps there. Remember that you will likely have paid more buying from a "brick and mortar" store. They have staffing and other overhead costs that are reflected in the price. That is not inherently bad provided you feel that you got good service for your money.

 

[Lorelei]

Ok, thanks, it's more as I just put it under the light, it's yellowish at all times (not just a flinch). Just out of curiousity, what would you say is market price for the diamond I posted? Now I am wondering if I overpaid.

Then in that case it's possible it is picking up the light from your apartment, possibly that deep pavilion angle is trapping some ambient colour too. I must have missed it, did you post the price you paid? As it's from a b&m store it's usual to pay more, online is generally cheaper, you can compare prices of similar using the search tool at the top of the page, but those prices are for online stones, it should give you some idea though.

 

[jd2014]

All in was $22.5K (shipped out of state so no sales tax).

 

[teobdl]

Thank you for posting the GIA report proportions. The pavilion angle is incredibly steep, and this is not a diamond that would generally be recommended for purchase, regardless of the strange phenomenon you descibed. Additionally, based on a quick search of the PS diamond database, it seems overpriced. https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results/dCh6y5Of

My advice would be to return the diamond, and, if you like, post a budget and minimal specs for the diamond, and PSers can find you some very nice options or at least guide you through working w/ the vendor you have as best we can.

 

[jd2014]

What is concerning on those proportions? Just trying to understand when I go back in. Really appreciate everyone's input. I was going to propose on Friday but now I am second guessing everything!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

What is concerning on those proportions? Just trying to understand when I go back in. Really appreciate everyone's input. I was going to propose on Friday but now I am second guessing everything!

Most people here would run the numbers through the HCA tool. The conventional advice for consumers interested in top cut quality and light performance is to look for HCA scores of 2 or less. This diamond scores 6 . All the angles work in concert but the pavilion angle is critical. At 41.8 this one is problematic. This is an example of why GIA triple ex is a very broad category.

Regarding the yellow, is your apartment lighting incandescent? (conventional light bulbs). That will throw alot of yellow. And as has been mentioned the interior decor could be reflecting yellow as well.

Regarding fluorescence, the main issue with fluorescence is not haziness. That problem is relatively uncommon and most likely never an issue in medium blue. The main concern, which is a significant topic in the trade, has to do with over-grading of color. Because color grading today is done in lighting environments with a UV component, the concern is that diamonds with fluor will get higher grades than they should. That is, it might look like a G outdoors, or even in office lighting, but it might be a grade or two lower in lighting environments devoid of UV. You might be experiencing that effect in your apartment as well. Or it could be a combination of things.

 

[msop04]

Okay, so I just looked at the cert... can someone double check me on the HCA please?? I got a 6.0

Oops! ^^ just read this ^^

 

[teobdl]

What is concerning on those proportions? Just trying to understand when I go back in. Really appreciate everyone's input. I was going to propose on Friday but now I am second guessing everything!

A simple way to think about diamonds is as a complex system of mirrors. A great diamond collects light from around the room, lets the light bounce around a couple times, and then reflects it back into your eye. Great diamonds let minimal light come escape of the bottom of it (called "leakage"). The pavilion facets (and the other facets touching the pavilion facets called lower girdle facets) are the keys to making the mirror system work because they do the bulk of the reflecting to make light bounce back to your eye rather than letting it escape out of the bottom. If the angles are off (not just the pavilion angles, but all of the angles working together), light will escape and the diamond will be darker rather than bright and dynamic when you move it around.

The average pavilion angle of the diamond you have is very steep does not allow the complex system of mirrors to work as you want them to work. I don't want to sound harsh, but that diamond is abysmal and does not give you the best bang for your buck. The HCA score msop got is probably correct. You want a diamond that sparkles for every cent you put into it. This diamond is not the one.

You want a diamond that has the following range of proportions (which, generally, are not to be deviated from):
GIA Excellent cut; at least Very Good for both symmetry and polish
pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0
crown angle: 34.0-35.5 (many like to keep the maximum of 35.0)
table %: 53-58
Lower girdle%: 75-80
Star %: 50-55
Girdle: thin to medium; avoid very thin
Culet: none or pointed
Depth: this will work itself out if the others things are true, but definitely between 59-63. Around 61-62 is typical.

 

[Lorelei]

What is concerning on those proportions? Just trying to understand when I go back in. Really appreciate everyone's input. I was going to propose on Friday but now I am second guessing everything!

Hi Jd,

As I mentioned previously and Bryan and Teo expounded on, the deep pavilion angle is undesirable especially if you want a well cut diamond that shows a good display of brilliance, fire and scintillation. There are various negative effects possible from such a deep pavilion, namely, light leakage being a potential issue. Rather like a bucket with holes leaking water, such a deep pavilion can have a similar effect in a diamond, although it can't leak water, it leaks light which you definitely don't want. The light is wasted, running through the diamond instead of being bounced back up to your eyes as sparkle. It might look ok if more powerful light is acting as a battery but put it in weaker lighting conditions against its better cut counterparts, it will fall at the first hurdle. Another issue is colour entrapment, less of a concern in a G colour perhaps than in I, J colour and lower, but still not desirable. Although crown and pavilion angles can balance each other out in some cases, a shallower crown can make a nice counterweight to a slightly deeper pavilion, there are limits with the pavilion angle, start going much over 41 degrees and you can get problems, add that GIA round the proportion averages to the equation and our very deep 41.8 pavilion could in fact be deeper still due to this and the likelihood that the stone's overall cut precision isn't there...

I believe you can get a much better diamond for your money, we would be pleased to help you search if you wish!

 

[Lorelei]

Okay, so I just looked at the cert... can someone double check me on the HCA please?? I got a 6.0

That sounds about right msop...

 

[msop04]

Okay, so I just looked at the cert... can someone double check me on the HCA please?? I got a 6.0

That sounds about right msop...

Yikes!

OP, get your money back and let the folks her at PS find you an awesome stone... you have a VERY nice budget, and I'd hate for you to waste it on that stone.

P.S. you're girlfriend/FF will thank you.

 

[msop04]

...Fortunately, I have a 90 day fully exchangeable/refundable w/ the location I purchased it, so it's not as if I a stuck between a rock and a hard place. PlEASE HELP!

On a more positive note, there is a silver lining... This is great news, OP! Just return that one and let's get started finding you a big 'ole diamond that'll knock her eyeballs out!!! (in a good way) LOL

 

[jd2014]

Thanks everyone! I am fired up now. I already called the jeweler and told him I wasn't happy and would be in tomorrow. I appreciate everybody's honesty. Looking at it at home finally (in a natural setting), I thought something was off but I figured it was just me being crazy. Now that I am home looking at it again, when I said "yellow" before it was more a darkish brown which leads me to believe what everyone here is saying regarding the light leakage and in dim settings is definitely the case. I can see what you mean.

So how would PS find me a stone? Honestly, I'm a little turned off on this jeweler right now so I am open to getting some help from anybody that is willing. Now I just have to deal w/ telling her parents and my parents it's not going to happen this weekend and cancel all my plans.

 

[msop04]

So how would PS find me a stone? Honestly, I'm a little turned off on this jeweler right now so I am open to getting some help from anybody that is willing. Now I just have to deal w/ telling her parents and my parents it's not going to happen this weekend and cancel all my plans.

jd, you've come to the right place!! I know I personally enjoy "hunting down" the biggest and best for your money! There are many veteran PS'ers here that are extremely knowledgeable and are more than willing to help! What we do is suggest from the tried-and-true vendors that have come to be trusted. There is also a LOT better selection to choose from when compared to a brick and mortar jeweler.

That said, are you okay with SI clarity as longs as it's 100% eye clean?? Are you cool with going to an H color? A well cut GIA/AGS H will be very white and sparkle like crazy! Both will really help to maximize your budget.

 

[msop04]

...I also should mention that some PS vendors give discounts if you mention that you are a member of Pricescope.

 

[teobdl]

With your budget, you will not be lacking good options. I would search for G,H with eye clean VS2-SI1 to maximize carat size. I color is noticeable at 2 cts.

 

[msop04]

Don't pay attention to carat weights, just focus on the diameter (mm)... The stone you have is 7.75 mm.

Good Old Gold:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12250/ 7.7 mm $19K
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12213/ 7.6 mm $19K
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12011/ **this would be my pick!! 7.7 mm $16K!!

All have premium light performance.
...and these are only a few selections from one vendor!

You could probably get a 2 carat stone with your budget!

 

[msop04]

With your budget, you will not be lacking good options. I would search for G,H with eye clean VS2-SI1 to maximize carat size. I color is noticeable at 2 cts.

+1 This!!

 

[jd2014]

I'd prefer GIA certified. G Color and VS2 was my original range and I thought I was getting a steal on the VS1. Now that I've looked at the MB florescence for 24 hours, I think I'd prefer a faint or None. I'd prefer to stay in the 1.7 - 1.8 range if in my budget.

 

[jd2014]

I'd prefer GIA certified. G Color and VS2 was my original range and I thought I was getting a steal on the VS1. Now that I've looked at the MB florescence for 24 hours, I think I'd prefer a faint or None. I'd prefer to stay in the 1.7 - 1.8 range if in my budget (bigger if possible but not necessary). She is pretty small and I think the 1.8 I have now is a great size.

 

[msop04]

I'd prefer GIA certified. G Color and VS2 was my original range and I thought I was getting a steal on the VS1. Now that I've looked at the MB florescence for 24 hours, I think I'd prefer a faint or None. I'd prefer to stay in the 1.7 - 1.8 range if in my budget (bigger if possible but not necessary). She is pretty small and I think the 1.8 I have now is a great size.

AGS is just as strict and it is actually preferred, since it grades for light performance as well -- GIA doesn't do this. This is how your GIA was XXX, but the light performance was exceptionally bad. You can't beat AGS 0 (Ideal).

Also, VS1 is overkill... VS2 is a waste if you can get an SI1 that's totally eye clean for less money and/or get a larger stone for your budget. But if you must have VS, I wouldn't pay for VS1.

You say she is small, but unless she has specifically mentioned that she didn't want larger than 1.8, I promise you it won't be a disappointment!