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Need help with this ASET image

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bforbrian

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
14
Requested an ASET image for a 2.01 carat round diamond with the following characteristics:
  • Cut: ideal
  • Color: E
  • Clarity: VVS2
  • Fluorescence: Faint
  • Measurements: 8.10 x 8.07 x 5.00 mm
  • Depth: 61.8%
  • Table: 57%
  • Polish: Excellent
  • Symmetry: Excellent
  • Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
  • Culet: None
  • Crown angle: 35 degrees
  • Pavilion angle: 41 degrees
The below is what I was given. What are your thoughts regarding this ASET image? Is there too much white?

ASET

ASET

  • Media owner bforbrian
  • Date added
 
No image. Just a red X.
 
Fixed.
 
That image looks like a computer generated image of an AGS report. Assuming that is correct, the good news is the AGS report should have also assigned a cut grade as they utilize 3D computer modeling to determine each SPECIFIC diamond. This is better than GIA who utilizes 2D measurements and then rounds up to determine the CA, PA, etc.

There's a few things I don't like about the image you posted. Rather than pick it apart, I will reference the computer generated ASET image of the stone I selected for my girl and also the actual ASET image.

Also, I am including an AGS proportions chart. This is just an APPROXIMATION tool, but utilizing the table, CA & PA values I can see it has the potential to either an "excellent" or ideal cut stone. FYI, most people here don't believe "excellent" is really excellent at all.

Do you have any other images you can share with us, or actual reports to make evaluation more accurate?

Capture.PNG
Capture2.PNG
Capture3.PNG
 
sledge said:
That image looks like a computer generated image of an AGS report. Assuming that is correct, the good news is the AGS report should have also assigned a cut grade as they utilize 3D computer modeling to determine each SPECIFIC diamond. This is better than GIA who utilizes 2D measurements and then rounds up to determine the CA, PA, etc.

There's a few things I don't like about the image you posted. Rather than pick it apart, I will reference the computer generated ASET image of the stone I selected for my girl and also the actual ASET image.

Also, I am including an AGS proportions chart. This is just an APPROXIMATION tool, but utilizing the table, CA & PA values I can see it has the potential to either an "excellent" or ideal cut stone. FYI, most people here don't believe "excellent" is really excellent at all.

Do you have any other images you can share with us, or actual reports to make evaluation more accurate?

Capture.PNG
Capture2.PNG
Capture3.PNG
Click to expand...

Wow that ASET image looks marvelous. You're right- you didn't need to delve into the technical differences! A picture is worth 1000 words. How difficult was it for you to find that ring? Where did you purchase such a ring?

Unfortunately that is the only image they have. Would a GIA report help? I don't think it offers much more information than what I already posted.
 
The stone came from Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD). IMO, they are fantastic to work with and I frequently recommend them. Most people here consider cut to be king and Brian is well known for his attention to detail and superb cut.

Another couple of great vendors is White Flash (WF) and High Performance Diamonds (HPD). Others exist beyond these 3 obviously, but I really like all these because they have great stones, good pricing, excellent customer service and very transparent about their data (usually all this is listed on their site so you don't have to do special requests, etc). Plus all 3 have good upgrade policies. WF and HPD actually are a little more favorable as they are just required $1 more and you get full credit. BGD requires $1 more and you upgrade 2 of 3 characteristics: color, clarity or carat to get full credit.

What is your budget, and criteria for a stone? We can help direct you to the perfect stone within all your constraints.
 
bforbrian said:
Unfortunately that is the only image they have. Would a GIA report help? I don't think it offers much more information than what I already posted.
Click to expand...

Is this a GIA report? Or is it AGS? The image you posted really looks like a computer generated ASET model image, and not an actual image. So yes, I guess I'd be interested to see the report.
 
sledge said:
The stone came from Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD). IMO, they are fantastic to work with and I frequently recommend them. Most people here consider cut to be king and Brian is well known for his attention to detail and superb cut.

Another couple of great vendors is White Flash (WF) and High Performance Diamonds (HPD). Others exist beyond these 3 obviously, but I really like all these because they have great stones, good pricing, excellent customer service and very transparent about their data (usually all this is listed on their site so you don't have to do special requests, etc). Plus all 3 have good upgrade policies. WF and HPD actually are a little more favorable as they are just required $1 more and you get full credit. BGD requires $1 more and you upgrade 2 of 3 characteristics: color, clarity or carat to get full credit.

What is your budget, and criteria for a stone? We can help direct you to the perfect stone within all your constraints.
Click to expand...

Budget is maximum $34K, with diamond characteristics below:
-2.00 carats
-Cut: ideal
-Color: E D
-Clarity: VVS2, VVS1
-Fluorescence: faint, none
-Table: 54-57%
-Depth: 61-62.5%
-Crown angle: 34-35 degrees
-Pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0 degrees
 
Here is another diamond's actual ASET and H&A. Please advise? Upon cursory glance, this ASET image does not seem that impressive as there is a very faint red halo around the table?

image (2).png image (1).png image.png
 
Is this being passed off as a true H&A stone to you? If so, who? And how fast can you RUN from them?

There are many issues:
  • Symmetry is off all over the place.
  • Hearts are different sized shapes.
  • Tips of hearts have little tips/wings and are not consistent.
  • Clefts of hearts are major and vary considerably.
  • Shoulder width of hearts vary.
  • Shafts between tips of hearts and arrows vary side to side and are not consistent in the 8 hearts.
  • Shading between each half of the heart is noticeable and varies.
  • Misalignment between cleft & bottom of heart points.
  • Somewhere in the 10-11 o'clock position there are two white spots on the outside.
  • Arrows have clustering around the shaft (probably from too long star facets)
  • Irregular side effects are also present.
  • Almost looks like the table is too large but you aren't getting rounding of the heart shoulders.
  • You have leakage of some sort in the 4'oclock and 11'oclock positions in the arrows view.
  • Looking at the ASET, the halo may be from bad lighting. I will defer to others with more experienced eyes.
  • Again, you see light leakage at the 4'oclock position in the ASET.

I'm going to link a few sites that has pictures, etc you can & should read about to better understand what I am talking about.

https://beyond4cs.com/hearts-and-arrows/guidelines-for-optical-symmetry/
https://yourdiamondteacher.com/diamond-grading/hearts-arrows-diamonds/
http://www.heartsandarrows.com/hearts-arrows-diamond-ideal-cut-dna.aspx

Using my stone from above, here are the hearts & arrows images and how they should look.

BLAGS-104098623002-IDEAL.jpg


download.jpg
 
By the way, I suspect you are having a tough time finding a well cut stone with your criteria. I did a search using your criteria and it was hard to find something.

A couple of suggestions:
  • Possibly back the color requirements off from D/E to include D/E/F/G. It's very hard for professionals to differentiate between D/E/F without charts to assist them. Unless you have a D stone next to an F I doubt you or your SO would be able to tell the difference. I really think you could get away with a G as well. I hate how people market diamonds as "yellow". The reality is the slightest tint of color starts to appear at G/H stones, but they are still very white. Also, when looking at super ideals, because they are cut so well they tend to look whiter than say a GIA triple X stone.
  • I would suggest backing down clarity to an EYE CLEAN SI1+. Although the reality is that in those colors & sizes, the bulk is really a VS2+ which I think is a great place to be for maximizing color, size and budget.
  • Try not to focus JUST on carat weight. Remember, carat weight is derived by taking L x W x D. The L & W is on the horizontal plane and what we see with our eyes. The D is in the vertical plane and is added weight we pay for that we do not see. Depending on the specific stone, you may find a 1.90ct to have equal, or slightly more favorable L & W dimensions than a 2+ ct stone. Also, remember that it takes about 0.20mm to see a visual difference with the naked human eye, and then that difference is very, very marginal and probably not detectable unless holding against something else that is 0.20mm+ larger.
That said, here are some suggestions. As I mentioned, I bought from BGD so I'm partial to them and there Black series is cream of the crop in regards to cut. It is Brian's latest and greatest method for cutting and this one is a stunner IMO!

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../1.903-f-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104100240002

That said, WF is also a great company and I found some that may also work for you. Some of these are below your budget as well.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3986365,3970294,3978038,3979464,3965479

Regardless, all these look much, much better than what you have been showing us.
 
Thanks so much sledge you've been a tremendous help!!!
 
sledge said:
By the way, I suspect you are having a tough time finding a well cut stone with your criteria. I did a search using your criteria and it was hard to find something.

A couple of suggestions:
  • Possibly back the color requirements off from D/E to include D/E/F/G. It's very hard for professionals to differentiate between D/E/F without charts to assist them. Unless you have a D stone next to an F I doubt you or your SO would be able to tell the difference. I really think you could get away with a G as well. I hate how people market diamonds as "yellow". The reality is the slightest tint of color starts to appear at G/H stones, but they are still very white. Also, when looking at super ideals, because they are cut so well they tend to look whiter than say a GIA triple X stone.
  • I would suggest backing down clarity to an EYE CLEAN SI1+. Although the reality is that in those colors & sizes, the bulk is really a VS2+ which I think is a great place to be for maximizing color, size and budget.
  • Try not to focus JUST on carat weight. Remember, carat weight is derived by taking L x W x D. The L & W is on the horizontal plane and what we see with our eyes. The D is in the vertical plane and is added weight we pay for that we do not see. Depending on the specific stone, you may find a 1.90ct to have equal, or slightly more favorable L & W dimensions than a 2+ ct stone. Also, remember that it takes about 0.20mm to see a visual difference with the naked human eye, and then that difference is very, very marginal and probably not detectable unless holding against something else that is 0.20mm+ larger.
That said, here are some suggestions. As I mentioned, I bought from BGD so I'm partial to them and there Black series is cream of the crop in regards to cut. It is Brian's latest and greatest method for cutting and this one is a stunner IMO!

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../1.903-f-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104100240002

That said, WF is also a great company and I found some that may also work for you. Some of these are below your budget as well.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3986365,3970294,3978038,3979464,3965479
Click to expand...


Thanks to you Sledge, I purchased that BG stone!

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../1.903-f-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104100240002

Thank you so much! I can't wait to see it in person :)
 
sledge said:
Wow! Congrats and welcome to the BGD family!! Post back with bling shots. I am sure you will love it!
Click to expand...

Thank you and will do!

Yet another question... when is the right time to purchase insurance? I'm looking into JM.
On the BGD website, they have a link for a quote for my BGD stone where I enter the order # and it spits out a premium (no appraisal needed).... however, this option made the quote MUCH higher than if I went directly to the JM website and entered the value of the stone manually (which required an appraisal). This difference was $246!

Any advice is appreciated!
 
bforbrian said:
Thank you and will do!

Yet another question... when is the right time to purchase insurance? I'm looking into JM.
On the BGD website, they have a link for a quote for my BGD stone where I enter the order # and it spits out a premium (no appraisal needed).... however, this option made the quote MUCH higher than if I went directly to the JM website and entered the value of the stone manually (which required an appraisal). This difference was $246!

Any advice is appreciated!
Click to expand...

Funny you mention that, I just secured my policy through JM the other day. My situation was slightly different. I bought my stone from BGD, and then used DK to design & build a custom e-ring. Lesley held my diamond in BGD's safe until the design phase was complete and DK requested the stone on-site so we didn't delay them. Lesley then sent my stone overnight directly to DK for final mounting, etc. Within that same week DK finished up and sent the mounted stone in the new setting to me overnight.

For a week or two now I've been uninsured, and IMO took unnecessary risk. I am now covered and thankfully there was no loss or damages incurred in that interim. Not that I wanted to pay for it twice, but my purchase was considerably smaller than yours and I could have covered the loss if I needed to. I just have no burning desire to utilize my capital in that manner.

So if I were to re-do the process, I would have went ahead and taken the policy when the stone left BGD's safe. I may have doubled up with shipping insurance and/or a policy DK had in-place but in my case it was less than a week and cheap insurance had something happened.

If you are custom building a setting I'd recommend the same -- insure when it leaves BGD's safe. If you are buying a setting directly from BGD, I'd insure when they give you the tracking number.

FYI....my actual JM premium was lower than the premium shown when you request the quote through the BGD website. I am not certain why. The values were the same, but it was about 25% cheaper than what I initially saw. Also, one of the reasons I delayed getting my policy is I wanted to be able to add the stone & setting at the same time. Although w/ JM it would have been easy to insure the diamond first, and then add the e-ring.

In fact, I will have to do something similar when the wedding band is complete. But once the entire set is designed and here, I plan on taking to an independent appraiser and having the stone, e-ring and wedding band appraised and insured for whatever value is assessed. I figured that is the safest way as I feel I got some good breaks on pricing along the way and am not sure I could replace everything for the invoice prices. So I'd like to insure a little higher than my actual cost, although I understand it will cost me a few pennies extra to do so.
 
sledge said:
Funny you mention that, I just secured my policy through JM the other day. My situation was slightly different. I bought my stone from BGD, and then used DK to design & build a custom e-ring. Lesley held my diamond in BGD's safe until the design phase was complete and DK requested the stone on-site so we didn't delay them. Lesley then sent my stone overnight directly to DK for final mounting, etc. Within that same week DK finished up and sent the mounted stone in the new setting to me overnight.

For a week or two now I've been uninsured, and IMO took unnecessary risk. I am now covered and thankfully there was no loss or damages incurred in that interim. Not that I wanted to pay for it twice, but my purchase was considerably smaller than yours and I could have covered the loss if I needed to. I just have no burning desire to utilize my capital in that manner.

So if I were to re-do the process, I would have went ahead and taken the policy when the stone left BGD's safe. I may have doubled up with shipping insurance and/or a policy DK had in-place but in my case it was less than a week and cheap insurance had something happened.

If you are custom building a setting I'd recommend the same -- insure when it leaves BGD's safe. If you are buying a setting directly from BGD, I'd insure when they give you the tracking number.

FYI....my actual JM premium was lower than the premium shown when you request the quote through the BGD website. I am not certain why. The values were the same, but it was about 25% cheaper than what I initially saw. Also, one of the reasons I delayed getting my policy is I wanted to be able to add the stone & setting at the same time. Although w/ JM it would have been easy to insure the diamond first, and then add the e-ring.

In fact, I will have to do something similar when the wedding band is complete. But once the entire set is designed and here, I plan on taking to an independent appraiser and having the stone, e-ring and wedding band appraised and insured for whatever value is assessed. I figured that is the safest way as I feel I got some good breaks on pricing along the way and am not sure I could replace everything for the invoice prices. So I'd like to insure a little higher than my actual cost, although I understand it will cost me a few pennies extra to do so.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that informative post.

Turns out that barely any of the big online retailers (BN, JA, etc.) sells their settings without a diamond purchase, so I went with a BGD setting, which my girlfriend actually really loves. I'll purchase insurance right as I have a tracking # from them, opting to manually entering the value of the ring myself which will require an appraisal. And yes, that is exactly what happened to me! It is 25% cheaper than what I saw.
 
bforbrian said:
Thanks for that informative post.

Turns out that barely any of the big online retailers (BN, JA, etc.) sells their settings without a diamond purchase, so I went with a BGD setting, which my girlfriend actually really loves. I'll purchase insurance right as I have a tracking # from them, opting to manually entering the value of the ring myself which will require an appraisal. And yes, that is exactly what happened to me! It is 25% cheaper than what I saw.
Click to expand...

Just curious, which setting did you choose?

I actually spoke to Lesley before I did my JM policy because I noticed there was about a 10% increase from purchase price to reported value (using their portal). She said JM allowed that, and if I wanted more than an independent appraisal would be required -- which as I noted earlier I do plan on doing, but not until I have all the wedding band also.

When I called JM, I gave them the 10% increased value that BGD reported for the "auto quote" and also what I thought was the actual setting value from DK. Yesterday I submitted the actual receipts from BGD and DK, along with pics, certs, etc so JM has sufficient paperwork in case there is a claim.

When submitting the actual receipts, I accidentally misquoted the setting price by about $300 more than I actually paid. I am not sure if the 10% rule applies to the setting so my overall value may get adjusted down ever so slightly. It wasn't intentional and I'm okay with whatever JM does.
 
sledge said:
Just curious, which setting did you choose?

I actually spoke to Lesley before I did my JM policy because I noticed there was about a 10% increase from purchase price to reported value (using their portal). She said JM allowed that, and if I wanted more than an independent appraisal would be required -- which as I noted earlier I do plan on doing, but not until I have all the wedding band also.

When I called JM, I gave them the 10% increased value that BGD reported for the "auto quote" and also what I thought was the actual setting value from DK. Yesterday I submitted the actual receipts from BGD and DK, along with pics, certs, etc so JM has sufficient paperwork in case there is a claim.

When submitting the actual receipts, I accidentally misquoted the setting price by about $300 more than I actually paid. I am not sure if the 10% rule applies to the setting so my overall value may get adjusted down ever so slightly. It wasn't intentional and I'm okay with whatever JM does.
Click to expand...

Got it.

I chose the following:

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...assic-style-half-round-18k-white-gold-5478w18
 
sledge said:
Love the sexiness and simplicity of that solitaire!

Had my girl wanted something that wasn't bizarre :lol: then I would have chosen something similar. The look is just classy and timeless. :cool2:
Click to expand...

It certainly is! Initially she wanted a Pave 6 prong but those are actually really hard to come by (there are a ton of 4 prong pave, however). After some more thinking, she loved the simplicity of a solitaire and that's what she ended up choosing!
 
bforbrian said:
It certainly is! Initially she wanted a Pave 6 prong but those are actually really hard to come by (there are a ton of 4 prong pave, however). After some more thinking, she loved the simplicity of a solitaire and that's what she ended up choosing!
Click to expand...

I understand the 6-prong desire. I also wanted that for my girl. I was lucky in the fact she choose an inspiration that already had them. Later when I presented, she tried to tell me the inspiro only had 4 prongs and I must have changed it to 6 prongs. I pulled the inspiro pics and said nope, I love you honey, but you're wrong. :lol: But I did have DK change them from chunky alien ears to nice sharp & precise prongs.

FYI, BGD could have easily converted a 4-prong pave to a 6-prong pave for you guys. Not even sure they would have considered that "custom" but they do also offer custom settings. Not suggesting you change, just letting you know.
 
sledge said:
I understand the 6-prong desire. I also wanted that for my girl. I was lucky in the fact she choose an inspiration that already had them. Later when I presented, she tried to tell me the inspiro only had 4 prongs and I must have changed it to 6 prongs. I pulled the inspiro pics and said nope, I love you honey, but you're wrong. :lol: But I did have DK change them from chunky alien ears to nice sharp & precise prongs.

FYI, BGD could have easily converted a 4-prong pave to a 6-prong pave for you guys. Not even sure they would have considered that "custom" but they do also offer custom settings. Not suggesting you change, just letting you know.
Click to expand...

Yeah they did say that it was custom and the price was absolutely ridiculous! Opted with the $850 18K white gold option :-)
 
bforbrian said:
Yeah they did say that it was custom and the price was absolutely ridiculous! Opted with the $850 18K white gold option :)
Click to expand...

Oh wow, sorry to hear that. Regardless, the soli is gorgeous! :love:
 
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