Need help with IGI diamond decision

[newoej]

I recently have been speaking with a well-respected jewelry store in Kansas City. They typically sell GIA diamonds but have an IGI certified (Antwerp) diamond for what seems to be a good price: $6100.

Round Brilliant
1.27
6.96x6.99x4.30mm
G SI1
Slight Flourescence
VG Polish/Symmetry
VG Proportions
Diameter: 56.5%
Crown Height: 15%
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Girdle: Thin to Medium
Culet: Pointed

From what I''ve been reading (everywhere), it seems the IGI grade is not nearly as respected as GIA or AGS, maybe even off by a color and/or clarity grade. Is this typically true? I''ve seen the diamond and it looks great, but I''d still like to hear opinions.

 

[DiamondExpert]

If you love the stone, make them an offer they''re probably sure to refuse...that you will pay the total cost of a GIA grading and if it comes back as advertised you will purchase the stone at the quoted price, if it doesn''t, no deal and they eat the cost...there''s always a reason (or several reasons) for that "good" price because us usually get what you pay for (and sometimes you get less).

Alternatively, take it to an independent appraiser with the same deal.

Good luck!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

i think you are way over the top on the GIA thingy Gary.


Appraiser thing is a great idea - but at that grade you can also easily DIY.

Ask to compare the stone loose and upside down held very close to a fluorescent tube alongside a G and an H graded GIA stone. See the tutorial here for what you look for.

SI1 is easily checked with a loupe - a microscope is not needed. - The store people can hold the tweezers and loupe in focus for you if you find that bit difficult. again compare the SI1 to some known unset GIA or other stones.

At G-H and SI1 -SI2 you can reasnoably satisfy yourself - and then decide if you need an appraiser too.

Of course an ideal-scope or ASET scope can help too - but those #''s look very nice.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

I think the point that Gary is trying to make, Garry, is that if the price is extremely attractive, one should be extra careful. Hence his ''reaction over the top''.

And I do think that DIY-grading is not an advisable option.

Live long,

 

[phoenixgirl]

I don''t know that the price *is* extremely attractive. I searched for 1.25 to 1.30 G SI1 "other" (not GIA or AGS) stones.

5 stones came up (all with EGL certs):

1.25 62.7/54 $4436 to $4749

1.25 62.1/58 $4515 to $4834

1.26 61.4/56 $6102 to $6130 (labelled as "Select Ideal TM" by Union Diamonds -- hopefully that means they have seen it because it is listed by another vendor)

1.28 60/59 $4754

1.29 62/57 $4541

So except for that "Select Ideal" stone, these stones are selling for between $3549/carat and $3867/carat. How do we know this stone deserves a well cut premium?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/19/2006 6:05:29 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
I think the point that Gary is trying to make, Garry, is that if the price is extremely attractive, one should be extra careful. Hence his ''reaction over the top''. the price is good, not the lowest - but not bad Paul - if the stone is as graded.

And I do think that DIY-grading is not an advisable option. I suggested the buyer checks for themselves and with my advice, they are happy with the stone then buy it or send it first to an appraiser.

I would never suggest this with D-F or IF to VS1 - but at G SI1 it is my extensive experiance that most consumers are able to tell quite a lot about a diamond.

Live long,

 

[denverappraiser]

Garry,

Telling the difference between a G and an H is extremely difficult for most people, especially without knowing the details of the ‘master’ stone and the light being used. I would go so far as to say that most people can’t tell the difference between a G and an I using this test. The same thing happens with clarity. People confuse SI1 and SI2 regularly. This get’s aggravated by dealers and labs who do it on purpose but it's these same dealers who are the primary basis that a consumer has for learning the difference themselves.

These differences are pretty important in deciding if the stone is a ‘deal’.

I like Gary’s test, if for no other reason than it requires the store to cast a vote of confidence in the grading accuracy of the stone. Even if they agree, it’s not necessary to actually do it.

Not surprisingly, I think people in this situation can get good value when they hire an independent appraisers as well but since I'm hardly an unbiased observer on that issue I won't comment on that part.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

neil the main point is if the stone clearly fails - then pass - if it looks OK then send it to an appraiser.


It is then up to this person to decide on the appraiser course of action - or if they FEEL comfortable - just buy it because you cant tell the difference and they like the stone, storew and entire experiance.

 

[lumpkin]

As a fellow consumer in the Kansas City area, and not an "expert in the field" I may have a shared perspective with you. I think it depends on several things. How much do you like this jeweler? How much time do you want to spend on the quest and how truly discriminating are your (and your fiance''s) tastes? I''m going to be in the minority, I''m sure, but all the same here is my opinion. I''m far more particular than the average customer, but less particular than the average PSer.

I would compare it to other diamonds they have in stock. I would have them show you in their big scope and explain why they agree with the clarity grade, comparing it with a few other GIA graded stones with the same clarity. I know that one jeweler has a room where they have color correct lighting and you can see pretty clearly differences in color. If your jeweler has that, have them show you comparisons of color.

If it looks good, you really like the jeweler and want to shop at a B&M store, you could buy the diamond on the contingency that an independent appraiser agrees with the grading. Check with your insurance company and get the name of an independent appraiser (that''s how I got the name of one -- there weren''t any PS appraisers in the KC area when I was looking for one and I don''t think there are any now, but I could be wrong). If the store balks at this, it may be a bad sign. In that case I would keep looking. This is not the only deal in town, and I would personally not hesitate to buy on-line where there are better deals to be had.

If this jeweler says they won''t set a diamond in one of their rings unless you buy the diamond from them, I''d walk away. There are several very fine jewelers in KC that will set a diamond you already own, particularly if it''s certified.

If you are extremely particular, I think it may be much harder to buy at a B&M. They are not accustomed to clientelle who are that knowledgable about crown and pavilion angles, girdle thicknesses, table percentages, Sarin reports, etc. and who come in with their own equipment to check out the wares. I think they typically buy for the masses rather than PS educated consumers, so although ideal cuts are available, you will have to look harder for them.

If you think you will be happy with the diamond and are not going to dwell on whether you could have gotten just that much better a cut or whatever, and you are nervous about the prospect of an on-line purchase, then if it passes the tests go for it.

My second diamond was an IGI graded diamond and while I was upgrading I had three different jewelers who looked at it and without my telling them anything about it, said it was an H VS2, which is what the IGI grading was. It''s not always off, although I would not trust IGI as much as GIA.

Good luck and hope you find *the* diamond for you.