Need help with Hearts on Fire setting and superideal

[seekingdiamond]

Hello,

My girlfriend (and hopefully soon to be fiance!) and I have totally bit on the super ideal diamonds. Clearly, cut is the most important factor when determining the diamond to buy. She and I have looked at a number of diamonds and settings, and we keep coming back to the Hearts on Fire. That being said, before doing much research I assumed that there were other super ideal cut diamonds available, but not knowing the extent of the Hearts on Fire premium, I decided that I would be OK paying 15-20% extra over the others for one. A jeweler friend of mine told me some months ago that a good 1ct HOF would cost about $9500, and so I figured I'd be paying about a 10-15% premium for the brand.

Unfortunately this is clearly wrong... and the premium is more like 40-50% or even more. So although I'm fairly certain I want the Hearts on Fire Significance set (http://heartsonfire.com/#/us/en-us/...ype_id=1&subtype_name=Engagement Rings&type=1), I would like to explore other diamonds. I certainly don't want to be paying for HOF marketing...and I would like to get a larger stone for the money, if I can do so without sacrificing performance.

I have talked with a jeweler who said they would (reluctantly) allow me to put a non-HOF diamond on the HOF set, even though this is apparently against HOF policy. They said it would be a big mistake, because no other diamond in the world sparkles as much as a HOF.

My solution would be to buy a Brian Gavin diamond. But this leads me to my questions:

1. Will the Brian Gavin Signature diamond be "overpowered" by the Hearts on Fire pave diamonds on the setting, as claimed by the the jeweler? Will it look "off" in any way?
2. I could go up to 1.5-2.0ct in a good Brian Gavin signature, but will this appear too big/awkward on her finger (size 4.75) and on the setting? She is pretty thin and about 5'5" so I am concerned a huge rock would be out of proportion.
3. Is the I or J color even noticeable once on the setting?

Thank you so much for your help! And thanks to Pricescope for pointing me in the direction of Brian Gavin.

 

[stone-cold11]

1) No, probably the same level.

2) Probably not.


3) Depends on you/your gf's color sensitivity and preference.

 

[seekingdiamond]

1) No, probably the same level.

2) Probably not.


3) Depends on you/your gf's color sensitivity and preference.

Thanks for the lightening quick response, Stone-cold! For the chart, are the percentages showing percentile ranking of carat weight vs ring size based on a sample of rings purchased?

 

[stone-cold11]

No, it means the coverage of the stone compared to the ring size of the wearer.

A ring size 5 has an internal diameter of 16mm and a stone of 2carat has an approximate diameter of 8.2mm, so that comes to a coverage of 52%.

8.2/16 * 100% = 52%

 

[seekingdiamond]

No, it means the coverage of the stone compared to the ring size of the wearer.

A ring size 5 has an internal diameter of 16mm and a stone of 2carat has an approximate diameter of 8.2mm, so that comes to a coverage of 52%.

8.2/16 * 100% = 52%

Thank you, again. Sorry for being dense.

 

[risingsun]

I have the HOF Significance setting. My diamond is 1.62ct and my finger size is 4.5. I hope this pic will be of some help. This setting covers the finger very nicely, IMO

 

[seekingdiamond]

I have the HOF Significance setting. My diamond is 1.62ct and my finger size is 4.5. I hope this pic will be of some help. This setting covers the finger very nicely, IMO

Oh wow! That is beautiful. Do you mind if I ask how long you have had the ring and if you have overall been happy with it? No issues of any kind (I don't know what could happen, but figure it doesn't hurt to ask...)?

 

[risingsun]

I have had this ring a little over a year. There have been no problems. It has a knife edge shank, which took me a few days to become accustomed to, but now I don't even think about it. I have been very happy with it. It is an upgrade and is my "forever" ring! I fully understand your reluctance to spend the premium for a HOF diamond. I had another superideal diamond [and some jewelry I no longer wore] to use in trade and my stone is a HOF. Have your jeweler measure the size of the halo. That will give you the total amount of finger coverage. HTH

 

[antelope1]

Back to your original questions:

1. Will the Brian Gavin Signature diamond be "overpowered" by the Hearts on Fire pave diamonds on the setting, as claimed by the the jeweler? Will it look "off" in any way?

No and no. It will look fantastic, and I think your B&M guy is trying to scare you. Having said that, the pave and the center stone will sparkle in different ways simply because the facets are larger on the center diamond. Even a HoF diamond will sparkle in a different way than the smaller pave stones.

Also, with the setting, you're paying a premium for the HoF name. It would be $$ less expensive to get a good custom guy / gal to make the setting exactly the way you want it, and to make it around the proportions of the diamond that you ultimately choose. If this were the final and forever ring, I could totally see going for the signed setting now -- but...just as you feel with the diamond, I would personally spend the extra $$ on the center stone.

Of course, when I get my forever ring, it will be a LM.

 

[risingsun]

Back to your original questions:

1. Will the Brian Gavin Signature diamond be "overpowered" by the Hearts on Fire pave diamonds on the setting, as claimed by the the jeweler? Will it look "off" in any way?

No and no. It will look fantastic, and I think your B&M guy is trying to scare you. Having said that, the pave and the center stone will sparkle in different ways simply because the facets are larger on the center diamond. Even a HoF diamond will sparkle in a different way than the smaller pave stones.

Also, with the setting, you're paying a premium for the HoF name. It would be $$ less expensive to get a good custom guy / gal to make the setting exactly the way you want it, and to make it around the proportions of the diamond that you ultimately choose. If this were the final and forever ring, I could totally see going for the signed setting now -- but...just as you feel with the diamond, I would personally spend the extra $$ on the center stone.

Of course, when I get my forever ring, it will be a LM.

With all due respect, this is not an easy ring to replicate. If I were to suggest someone to replicate it, it would be Leon

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Hello,

[*]Will the Brian Gavin Signature diamond be "overpowered" by the Hearts on Fire pave diamonds on the setting, as claimed by the the jeweler? Will it look "off" in any way?
Nonsense Biggest difference will be in the size of the centre to melee, the cut of the smaller diamonds will probably be indistinguishable from BGD melee to HOF Melee.

[*]I could go up to 1.5-2.0ct in a good Brian Gavin signature, but will this appear too big/awkward on her finger (size 4.75) and on the setting? She is pretty thin and about 5'5" so I am concerned a huge rock would be out of proportion.
[*]Is the I or J color even noticeable once on the setting?[/list]
Finger coverage is a personal preference but for most women even petit ones bigger is better.
Yes with a halo of melee diamonds the tint of the centre may be more noticeable you should try to choose melee of equal color or even one color grade lower if possible.
Thank you so much for your help! And thanks to Pricescope for pointing me in the direction of Brian Gavin.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Hello,

[*]Will the Brian Gavin Signature diamond be "overpowered" by the Hearts on Fire pave diamonds on the setting, as claimed by the the jeweler? Will it look "off" in any way?
Nonsense Biggest difference will be in the size of the centre to melee, the cut of the smaller diamonds will probably be indistinguishable from BGD melee to HOF Melee.

[*]I could go up to 1.5-2.0ct in a good Brian Gavin signature, but will this appear too big/awkward on her finger (size 4.75) and on the setting? She is pretty thin and about 5'5" so I am concerned a huge rock would be out of proportion.
[*]Is the I or J color even noticeable once on the setting?[/list]
Finger coverage is a personal preference but for most women even petit ones bigger is better.
Yes with a halo of melee diamonds the tint of the centre may be more noticeable you should try to choose melee of equal color or even one color grade lower if possible.
Thank you so much for your help! And thanks to Pricescope for pointing me in the direction of Brian Gavin.

 

[seekingdiamond]

Hello,

[*]Is the I or J color even noticeable once on the setting?[/list]
Finger coverage is a personal preference but for most women even petit ones bigger is better.
Yes with a halo of melee diamonds the tint of the centre may be more noticeable you should try to choose melee of equal color or even one color grade lower if possible.
Thank you so much for your help! And thanks to Pricescope for pointing me in the direction of Brian Gavin.

So, would it be a bad idea for me to get a H Brian Gavin Signature diamond if the melee are listed as G-H? Doesn't seem that Hearts on Fire allows you to choose melee diamonds.

Thanks!

Henry

 

[stone-cold11]

G/H color difference is fine, usually up to 2 grades color difference is fine.

 

[Dreamer_D]

My solution would be to buy a Brian Gavin diamond. But this leads me to my questions:

1. Will the Brian Gavin Signature diamond be "overpowered" by the Hearts on Fire pave diamonds on the setting, as claimed by the the jeweler? Will it look "off" in any way?
   
   Nah, that is hooey. Melee diamonds cannot possibly overpower a larger diamond, for one, and for another, an ideally proportioned stone will have a better cut, most likely, than the melee or at the worst the same type of proportions.
   
2. I could go up to 1.5-2.0ct in a good Brian Gavin signature, but will this appear too big/awkward on her finger (size 4.75) and on the setting? She is pretty thin and about 5'5" so I am concerned a huge rock would be out of proportion.
   
   Its a matter of preference. I think that size would look great on her finger but it depends on her comfort level wearing a large diamond. I wear a 1.7ct on a size 6 and love how it looks. My friend with smaller fingers tried it on and said she would feel conspicuous. Does her social circle wear diamonds and does she care at all what people think?
   
3. Is the I or J color even noticeable once on the setting?

Some think yes, some think no. I have a J color stone and love it, but would not want pave with it, it increases the contrast and I think makes my stone look more tinted. But others don't feel that way at all. I think you need to see some stones in person to know how you feel. But beware, there is a real stigma with many jewelers about J color stones, and if you listen to them and not your own eyes you may be swayed away from that color range. I personally love a nice I/J color stone for the size I can get for my money, and the slight warmth is appealing to my eyes

Thank you so much for your help! And thanks to Pricescope for pointing me in the direction of Brian Gavin.

I love that setting a lot, but just be sure that the jeweler who is agreeing to set a non HOF stone in the setting is reputable and will do it right, since it is against HOF policies I worry they are being shady. You can also just have BGD make a similar style of ring, it won't be identical of course, but the main design elements (with the exception of the basket) are not so unusual.

 

[seekingdiamond]

My solution would be to buy a Brian Gavin diamond. But this leads me to my questions:

1. Will the Brian Gavin Signature diamond be "overpowered" by the Hearts on Fire pave diamonds on the setting, as claimed by the the jeweler? Will it look "off" in any way?
   
   Nah, that is hooey. Melee diamonds cannot possibly overpower a larger diamond, for one, and for another, an ideally proportioned stone will have a better cut, most likely, than the melee or at the worst the same type of proportions.
   
2. I could go up to 1.5-2.0ct in a good Brian Gavin signature, but will this appear too big/awkward on her finger (size 4.75) and on the setting? She is pretty thin and about 5'5" so I am concerned a huge rock would be out of proportion.
   
   Its a matter of preference. I think that size would look great on her finger but it depends on her comfort level wearing a large diamond. I wear a 1.7ct on a size 6 and love how it looks. My friend with smaller fingers tried it on and said she would feel conspicuous. Does her social circle wear diamonds and does she care at all what people think?
   
3. Is the I or J color even noticeable once on the setting?

Some think yes, some think no. I have a J color stone and love it, but would not want pave with it, it increases the contrast and I think makes my stone look more tinted. But others don't feel that way at all. I think you need to see some stones in person to know how you feel. But beware, there is a real stigma with many jewelers about J color stones, and if you listen to them and not your own eyes you may be swayed away from that color range. I personally love a nice I/J color stone for the size I can get for my money, and the slight warmth is appealing to my eyes

Thank you so much for your help! And thanks to Pricescope for pointing me in the direction of Brian Gavin.

I love that setting a lot, but just be sure that the jeweler who is agreeing to set a non HOF stone in the setting is reputable and will do it right, since it is against HOF policies I worry they are being shady. You can also just have BGD make a similar style of ring, it won't be identical of course, but the main design elements (with the exception of the basket) are not so unusual.

I'm concerned about this as well. However, the jeweler has been a staple of my (small) hometown forever. They have also been awarded "best jewelery store" by the local paper every year. None of this really gives me that much comfort though. Ultimately I may attempt to get them to sell me the setting and I will send it to Brian for him to set. Does anyone have experience doing something like this?

 

[antelope1]

Good luck with that. Personally, I'd rather have a setting made by Brian to fit my diamond than a stock setting (designer or not) that may or may not be correctly proportioned to the diamond. This is a particular issue with halos because they really should fit right up against the edge of the diamond -- you don't want gaps, right?

 

[seekingdiamond]

Good luck with that. Personally, I'd rather have a setting made by Brian to fit my diamond than a stock setting (designer or not) that may or may not be correctly proportioned to the diamond. This is a particular issue with halos because they really should fit right up against the edge of the diamond -- you don't want gaps, right?

I agree with you. I personally would love to have a custom setting. But the time and expense involved is daunting. LM said they could make something similar for $800-900 more than the Hearts on Fire, and it would take a couple months.

As to your point about gaps... of course I do not want them. Although you do order the Hearts on Fire ring by carat size. So if I buy a 1.75 ct diamond I will get a setting for a 1.75 ct diamond.

My girlfriend loves this particular setting, as well. So I want her to be happy with the ring!

If there is a better solution, I'm open to it. I certainly would prefer to do something simpler. I just don't want to pay the 40-50% Hearts on Fire diamond premium or settle for a much smaller diamond because of the brand.

 

[risingsun]

You will not get a stock setting from HOF. They measure your stone and your setting is made to fit your stone. That's why it can take approx. 4-6 weeks to get the setting. I have a halo setting and there are no gaps. Of course it is also made to fit your finger size. Mine is a 4.5 scant. HTH.

ETA: My jeweler is authorized by HOF to set the diamonds and do repairs. You might ask your jeweler if he has those privileges.

 

[stone-cold11]

You will not get a stock setting from HOF. They measure your stone and your setting is made to fit your stone. That's why it can take approx. 4-6 weeks to get the setting. I have a halo setting and there are no gaps. Of course it is also made to fit your finger size. Mine is a 4.5 scant. HTH.

ETA: My jeweler is authorized by HOF to set the diamonds and do repairs. You might ask your jeweler if he has those privileges.

But even if he is authorize to set diamonds and do repairs to setting, how would he go about ordering a HOF ring without ordering a HOF stone? Since the OP is looking to buy from online?

 

[seekingdiamond]

You will not get a stock setting from HOF. They measure your stone and your setting is made to fit your stone. That's why it can take approx. 4-6 weeks to get the setting. I have a halo setting and there are no gaps. Of course it is also made to fit your finger size. Mine is a 4.5 scant. HTH.

ETA: My jeweler is authorized by HOF to set the diamonds and do repairs. You might ask your jeweler if he has those privileges.

But even if he is authorize to set diamonds and do repairs to setting, how would he go about ordering a HOF ring without ordering a HOF stone? Since the OP is looking to buy from online?

That is the crux of the question. I'll find out soon enough, and I'll be sure to write back in whenever the job is done so that I can contribute to the body of knowledge here and hopefully help someone else as much as you all have helped me.

My hope is that given the sorry state of Hearts on Fire sales (at least from what I have heard--somebody tell me if I am wrong) and the difficult economy, this small, four or five store jewelery business will work with me, just to get the sale. They are full service and authorized to do everything by Hearts on Fire. They also have the laser tools for repairs/sizing whatever. Somewhat annoying though that they want to charge me a few hundred dollars to set the diamond if I do not purchase from them after I do purchase a $4000 setting from them.

Brian Gavin has also warned me that if I give one of his diamonds to a jewelery store they may not take care of it properly and I should be sure to be "covered"... so I suppose I should buy insurance for the diamond prior to getting it set?

 

[antelope1]

You will not get a stock setting from HOF. They measure your stone and your setting is made to fit your stone. That's why it can take approx. 4-6 weeks to get the setting. I have a halo setting and there are no gaps. Of course it is also made to fit your finger size. Mine is a 4.5 scant. HTH.

I stand corrected. There are other custom people who do really nice halos aside from LM as well...LM is probably the priciest of them.

 

[stone-cold11]

Brian Gavin has also warned me that if I give one of his diamonds to a jewelery store they may not take care of it properly and I should be sure to be "covered"... so I suppose I should buy insurance for the diamond prior to getting it set?

Yap, that is generally the case. Jeweler's Mutual has insurance to cover the setting of loose stone.

 

[seekingdiamond]

Great, thank you Stone-cold. Just called and got information about a very reasonable Jeweler's Mutual policy.

Also, I wanted to ask, anybody have an opinion on this stone:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104045953005

Thanks!

 

[stone-cold11]

Looks good but there is no Hearts image uploaded yet. I would prefer to see those before I buy a H&A stone to verify that it is a H&A.

 

[risingsun]

You will not get a stock setting from HOF. They measure your stone and your setting is made to fit your stone. That's why it can take approx. 4-6 weeks to get the setting. I have a halo setting and there are no gaps. Of course it is also made to fit your finger size. Mine is a 4.5 scant. HTH.

ETA: My jeweler is authorized by HOF to set the diamonds and do repairs. You might ask your jeweler if he has those privileges.

But even if he is authorize to set diamonds and do repairs to setting, how would he go about ordering a HOF ring without ordering a HOF stone? Since the OP is looking to buy from online?

He speaks with the HOF vendor about whether they are willing to set a non HOF stone. If they are willing, he finds out the requirements of the stone that they will set. The stone is ordered from the online vendor. The stone is taken to the HOF vendor to be measured for the setting. The setting is ordered and you wait for it to come in. It is set and you have your ring. This is how I got my first HOF wedding set. I ordered an ACA from Brian Gavin, who was still at WF, and had it set in a HOF semimount. I think it took about five weeks for the rings to come in. It was pretty seamless. My jeweler was willing to assume liability for my diamond, while working setting it. Most jeweler's would not, so get extra insurance.

ETA: I was not charged to set the stone.

 

[stone-cold11]

So the company line about HOF not allowing any stone other than a HOF stone is B.S.?

 

[risingsun]

So the company line about HOF not allowing any stone other than a HOF stone is B.S.?

I have never known that to be the company line. They do vet the stones that they will set in a HOF setting. If this policy has changed, I am not aware of it. Many designers insist that their own diamonds be used in their settings, so if this is accurate now, then they have changed their policy. It's not BS. HOF gets a lot of bad press on this forum. They have a marketing plan, which they follow, which includes stating they have the most perfectly cut diamond. Our online vendors have variations on that theme, such as having the most perfectly balanced diamond, etc. Everyone has their own marketing approach. When I bought my stone, I told my vendor I was not interested in romancing the stone. I wanted to discuss light return, performance and parametrics. They obliged me.

The only reason I commented on this thread was that the OP was considering my setting for his ring. I thought I could help him out. I've been pulled into defending HOF, which is not something I really wanted to do. I have this setting and been through this process with both an online stone and a HOF stone. Others have posted their opinions, a number of which have been inaccurate. I am not a HOF rep and I am just trying to help out. Y'all are giving me a headache, so I've put on my shades

 

[seekingdiamond]

So the company line about HOF not allowing any stone other than a HOF stone is B.S.?

I have never known that to be the company line. They do vet the stones that they will set in a HOF setting. If this policy has changed, I am not aware of it. Many designers insist that their own diamonds be used in their settings, so if this is accurate now, then they have changed their policy. It's not BS. HOF gets a lot of bad press on this forum. They have a marketing plan, which they follow, which includes stating they have the most perfectly cut diamond. Our online vendors have variations on that theme, such as having the most perfectly balanced diamond, etc. Everyone has their own marketing approach. When I bought my stone, I told my vendor I was not interested in romancing the stone. I wanted to discuss light return, performance and parametrics. They obliged me.

The only reason I commented on this thread was that the OP was considering my setting for his ring. I thought I could help him out. I've been pulled into defending HOF, which is not something I really wanted to do. I have this setting and been through this process with both an online stone and a HOF stone. Others have posted their opinions, a number of which have been inaccurate. I am not a HOF rep and I am just trying to help out. Y'all are giving me a headache, so I've put on my shades

Just to be clear, your comments have been exceedingly helpful to me, Risingsun. From what I gather, HOF does strongly discourage their jewelers from using other diamonds in their settings, and it is all too easy for the jewelers to fall back on this. Better to sell a diamond and the setting together, rather than just a setting, right?

Like I said above, after I get everything sorted out, I will post back with details (and hopefully pics! although I can't say I'm much of a photographer), so perhaps this will shed some light on HOF policies/tendencies.

As far as HOF goes, I'm personally not willing to pay the premium of 40-50% over a similarly cut Whiteflash or Brian Gavin, but their settings are amazing. Every single one is beautiful and well made. And their diamonds are certainly amazingly beautiful and consistent...just expensive.

 

[risingsun]

So the company line about HOF not allowing any stone other than a HOF stone is B.S.?

I have never known that to be the company line. They do vet the stones that they will set in a HOF setting. If this policy has changed, I am not aware of it. Many designers insist that their own diamonds be used in their settings, so if this is accurate now, then they have changed their policy. It's not BS. HOF gets a lot of bad press on this forum. They have a marketing plan, which they follow, which includes stating they have the most perfectly cut diamond. Our online vendors have variations on that theme, such as having the most perfectly balanced diamond, etc. Everyone has their own marketing approach. When I bought my stone, I told my vendor I was not interested in romancing the stone. I wanted to discuss light return, performance and parametrics. They obliged me.

The only reason I commented on this thread was that the OP was considering my setting for his ring. I thought I could help him out. I've been pulled into defending HOF, which is not something I really wanted to do. I have this setting and been through this process with both an online stone and a HOF stone. Others have posted their opinions, a number of which have been inaccurate. I am not a HOF rep and I am just trying to help out. Y'all are giving me a headache, so I've put on my shades

Just to be clear, your comments have been exceedingly helpful to me, Risingsun. From what I gather, HOF does strongly discourage their jewelers from using other diamonds in their settings, and it is all too easy for the jewelers to fall back on this. Better to sell a diamond and the setting together, rather than just a setting, right?

Like I said above, after I get everything sorted out, I will post back with details (and hopefully pics! although I can't say I'm much of a photographer), so perhaps this will shed some light on HOF policies/tendencies.

As far as HOF goes, I'm personally not willing to pay the premium of 40-50% over a similarly cut Whiteflash or Brian Gavin, but their settings are amazing. Every single one is beautiful and well made. And their diamonds are certainly amazingly beautiful and consistent...just expensive.

Thanks for the feedback, seekingdiamond. I have enjoyed helping you