Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please! GIA

[lucida]

Hello,

I am not a diamond expert and need advice as to whether or not this is a good investment piece. I have been saving up forever and I can't afford to make a mistake. Any opinions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

GIA certified - report number: 5171201245 (http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=5171201245&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547)

Round Brilliant
Measurements 11.09 - 11.13 x 6.77 mm
Carat Weight 5.02 carat
Color Grade H
Clarity Grade VS1

Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted, 2.5%
Cut Grade Very Good
Polish Good
Symmetry Excellent
Fluorescence None
Comments Additional clouds are not shown. Pinpoints are not shown.
Clarity characteristics Crystal, Cloud, Feather, Needle

I also plugged in the measurements in the Holloway Tool and it came up with the following:
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent Scintillation Excellent
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.2 - Excellent within TIC range

I have attached a few of the pictures. Based on the pictures and the GIA, it looks milky or dull to me or do you think that it's just the picture? Based on the Holloway 1.2 score, it should shine like crazy, but I'm not seeing that in the pictures. Also the GIA comments state that "Comments Additional clouds are not shown. Pinpoints are not shown.
Clarity characteristics Crystal, Cloud, Feather, Needle"
Also the measurements should be 11+mm, but in the picture it looks small for some reason. I just want to make sure that it's a great buy (investment quality may be D/IF - but for me this is a major purchase and it's a huge diamond).

It's a local/private auction and there's still about 10 days left for it to end and I do not know what it would go for. Now the price is $3k. What would be a wholesale price for something like this and is it great bright full of fire diamond?

I would appreciate any information from you professionals.
Thank you in advance.

 

[JDDN]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

The price is $3K??? That would be $3,000. So, this 5 carat diamond is $3,000 US dollars???

I don't know why it only has a "very good cut" as the proportions look good. It does look hazy in the photo. Did you see it in real life? Did it look hazy in real life?

The lack of brilliance may be a function of the very good cut rating. As you probably know a diamond will get it's sparkle, brilliance, and fire from how well it is cut. That is why it is recommended to stick with GIA 3X or AGS 0 stones.

If size is your priority and you decide to compromise on cut, be prepared to have a diamond that doesn't perform as well as one that's cut better.

 

[michelles85]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

WOW, for $3K though, i'd think this is a great buy! Not much money spent for such a HUGE rock!

 

[JDDN]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

I know, I seriously can't get over that it's $3K. Even though it looks dull, I would buy it in a heart beat and have it re-cut. You'd still be at a 4 + carat diamond at a ridiculous price. $3K will buy you approximately a 0.5 carat to 0.7 carat diamond in the same color or clarity. So you can see how crazy the price is!!

How is it that it's only $3K may I ask? Just curious!

 

[telephone89]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

If I read correctly, $3k is the starting price, and it can go up from there? Like ebay, the starting price is always quite low.

Anyways, you can take a look for comps on here (pricescope search at the top) or also Jewels by grace.

 

[JDDN]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

If I read correctly, $3k is the starting price, and it can go up from there? Like ebay, the starting price is always quite low.

Anyways, you can take a look for comps on here (pricescope search at the top) or also Jewels by grace.

Ah, it's still being bid on. That explains things.

Is there a return policy or at the very least an inspection period in which you can have it appraised (with the option to return if not to your satisfaction)?

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Hello all and thank you for your prompt responses. Yes it started at $1 and it's already over $3k, but usually people will bid on the last day or minutes.
The haziness is my problem. I have not seen it in person and judging from the cut, it should sparkle well. If it was hazy or dull, it would be noted in the GIA report? How else would I know? There is no return policy as it's a local estate sale via auction. They are reputable auction house and sell all sorts of items.

it also looked small to me for a 11+mm diamond, or the model's fingers are really big
So I guess my only hesitation is the clarity or dullness, if anyone has any specific way of knowing just from this provided information, that would really be helpful. Also, what is the wholesale price on this? Is it worth betting if it goes upto $10k or something? Thank you so much.

 

[ecf8503]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Is there really no way to see it in person before you bid? Sounds fishy to me, but then I'm not familiar with auctions style sales.

That said, it is a GIA VS1 - I highly doubt the clouds or pins are the source of the dullness / haziness. The polish is only good though. I'll bet it just isn't clean - it was probably manipulated into that setting by hand, which have oils in them that can really alter the light reflection (lesson: keep those diamonds clean!). I'd ask for more photos of the stone clean, head on so you can see the patterning, and any other shots they can give you.

ETA: There's no way to know how it performs - the numbers may be good, but there is a reason it only received a VG cut grade - perhaps there is something in it's face up appearance that is not as pleasing as a GIA excellent.

The price on stones like this is potentially well over $100k (through vendors like BN, etc) based on a quick search -

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Hello all again and thanks again for your outlook and suggestions. I was able to get these other pics which are all that's really available. Any other comments or something I can look out for? I hope it's just not clean, but it was appraised just recently in June so I hope it cleaned. I can't imagine that it would be dirty when they showcase such a huge diamond. Any other thoughts? Thank you.

 

[telephone89]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Could be a grey tint vs a yellow tint.

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Hello Telephone89,

Would this tint be one of the fields in the GIA report? What tint are usually white diamonds? Thanks.

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Hello All,


The price is well over $5k now already. So you think most likely the diamond is dirty and will shine if it's cleaned? There's nothing in the GIA report nor the look of it that would make it have that dull look? In other words, if it would have been dull or milky, it would have been noted in the GIA report?

Again thank you for your help.

 

[JDDN]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

There's no way any of us can tell you why it looks murky/cloudy in the photos and there's no way we can say that it will shine after it's cleaned. We have not seen it nor have we inspected it ourselves.

It's a VS1 so it's unlikely that inclusions are the culprit.

You are relying on photography of the stone to judge the performance of the diamond which is not an accurate way to determine how sparkly and brilliant a diamond will be in real life.

If I had to bet, I would say the "Very Good' cut rating is the reason it's not looking sparkly and nice. How well a diamond is cut is what gives it the brilliance, sparkle, and fire.

Honesty, if you had some extra funds to play around with, bidding on this diamond could be a lot of fun. There are no returns so no matter what you'd be stuck with it. If there wasn't any pressure and your bid was accepted, you could leisurely sell it if you didn't like it or have it recut. But it sounds like this will be a lot of money to you, so I think you're really gambling and could end up unhappy. You are far better off buying a diamond you can see and inspect with a good return policy or buying a diamond with performance images through a well vetted vendor.

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Hello JDDN and others,
Thanks for your suggestions. So I am not sure what could be causing this. That's why I also plugged in the mesaurements in the Holloway tool and the result was 1.2 which is great. If it was milky or dull, would the GIA have mentioned anything related to it? I don't know how else to go about this. Thanks.

 

[bluelotus]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

"Additional clouds and pinpoints not shown" would probably explain the compromised transparency and the tendency for this to look hazy under certain lighting conditions.

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Hello and thanks for pointing that out. I thought that this text is in all certificates - is it not? So it could be that. If so, but the clarity is VS1, wouldn't that have anything to do with it?

 

[telephone89]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

That text is not shown in all certificates. But you're right, generally at vs1 there shouldn't be any issues with it.

 

[JDDN]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Just because a diamond scores under 2 on the HCA does NOT guarantee it's going to be a stellar performing diamond. If you've lurked on PS long enough you'll see that it's recommended to get performance images even when a diamond has a score under 2 and has great proportions. If you can see and inspect the diamond in real life, then those images may not be as important to you, but you are trying to figure out why it looks a certain way through photos.

When you say "wouldn't GIA have anything mentioned on why it looks milky or dull".....the answer is most likely in the cut, which they did mention. It scored a Very Good cut and not an Excellent cut. Which means the way it shines and how brilliant it is is in a category that includes poorer performing diamonds compared to Excellent cut diamonds. Remember, there is some reason why this diamond did not get an Excellent cut rating.

There are a myriad of reasons it may not perform well. Search the forum for what the HCA can tell you. Here's a recent discussion on why diamonds with ideal proportions can still be bad performers.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-ideal-cut-diamonds-be-leakers.215196/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-ideal-cut-diamonds-be-leakers.215196/[/URL]

"Additional clouds and pinpoints not shown" is absolutely not on all GIA reports.

A VS1 stone should not be milky or hazy.

I think you're focusing on the clarity and looking for some indication of why it's milky or hazy. If it's a true VS1 and it does not have fluorescence then that isn't the reason.

I also think you believe that because it scores 1.2 on the HCA that the cut can't be the reason, but that is just not true.

All said, there's no way for any of us to tell you with certainty why the diamond appears the way it does. The best we can do is speculate and give you educated guesses. But my speculation is on the fact that it has a Very Good cut rating. The fact that some Excellent cuts often do not perform well should give you some indication on what a Very Good cut can be (or not be).

 

[pfunk]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

If you were to try buying that diamond from an online seller right now it would be over $100,000. That's a huge rock.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Strange, it does not look like a 5ct stone on the OP's finger. Here is a 5.25ct and a 3.34ct on my size 4.75 pinky. The last pic is my wife's 3.34ct on my size 8.25 finger.

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Hello Dancing Fire,

Thanks for all the beautiful pics. Yes the size in the pics is also a concern of mine. It looks small, unless that lady's fingers are huge
That was one of my initial concerns. I can't decide. I always wanted a 5+ct but all the items don't add up as you can see...
I can't afford 100k or even 50k for this to go and buy elsewhere.

 

[tyty333]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

I thought the same thing lucida but had no definitive proof to show how big a 5 carat should look.
Maybe they can send some new pics with the stone on her ring finger. Maybe it will look it's size then.

Edit...here's a like to Pheonix's 5.31 carat. Sure would be nice to know what size finger is in the pictures they sent you.

https://www.pricescope.com/blog/jewel-week-5-carat-dream-diamond-named-holly

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Hello Dancing Fire,

Thanks for all the beautiful pics. Yes the size in the pics is also a concern of mine. It looks small, unless that lady's fingers are huge
That was one of my initial concerns. I can't decide. I always wanted a 5+ct but all the items don't add up as you can see...
I can't afford 100k or even 50k for this to go and buy elsewhere.

Sorry, my mistake b/c I thought the pics was that of your finger. anyway, it does not look like anywhere near a 5ct stone based on the pics you posted.

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Hello,

Yes I'm worried about that. There's also a pic of it (the last one with the cert).
This is a reputable local auction house that said the ring is accompanied by the GIA cert. They said that to further verify the ring, they had a local jewelry laboratory verify it also as that's the picture from that laboratory and I would guess that at a minimum, the measurements have to be preciscely accurate. This is all that I know. I'm not an expert, but am using common sense and what I've been told about it and by what you professionals are teaching me. Thank you.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Hello,

Yes I'm worried about that. There's also a pic of it (the last one with the cert).
This is a reputable local auction house that said the ring is accompanied by the GIA cert. They said that to further verify the ring, they had a local jewelry laboratory verify it also as that's the picture from that laboratory and I would guess that at a minimum, the measurements have to be preciscely accurate. This is all that I know. I'm not an expert, but am using common sense and what I've been told about it and by what you professionals are teaching me. Thank you.

Yeah you would think it should be correct, but based on the pics you posted it sure does not look like a 5ct size finger coverage... but then I could be wrong.

 

[drk14]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

There's also a pic of it (the last one with the cert).

I was bored, so I did some measurements on the above image. Assuming the dimensions of the GIA report trifold are 8.5"x3.67", then the diamond diameter can be estimated to be around 11.15 +/- 0.25 mm, which is consistent with the size stated in the report (11.09-11.13 mm). So while the auction house did not do themselves any favors when selecting their hand model, it does not appear that they are trying to pull a bait-and-switch.

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help to determine if this is a good diamond please!

Thank you so much for that info! I was thinking that that's the only point of reference we can use and you did the measurements - thank you to all for your support!