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Need Help on a Diamond

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TraderDude

Rough_Rock
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Dec 18, 2008
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I went to Graff today to look at a diamond ring for my wife. I thought the staff was a little pushy - acting a bit like used car salespeople, but I found a beautiful stone. It was a round 3.69 carat, G color, internally flawless, no flouresence, table 58%, depth 61.3, 9.992 x 10.09 x 6.11. IT was set in a four split-prong setting common to Graff with 2 pear shaped shoulder diamonds. The stone seemed full of sparkle and fire. My wife is very particular about the setting (she wants a classic tiffany six prong setting with no side stones, but I didn''t want to buy Tiffany because they don''t negotiate price). Graff said they recently hired one of Tiffany''s master jewelers who has made thousands of rings and could duplicate the setting for me. Of course, I have to buy the ring first, and if the setting isn''t perfect, all I can do is have them redo it. The price is $150K, which struck me as reasonable for Graff. A quick internet search found a comparable Blue Nile stone for $132K loose, so the Graff markup didn''t seem as bad as I expected. I am trying to make a decision and would appreciate any input or advice. Thanks.
 
Do you have pavillion and crown angles for that stone? I am sure that it is a beautiful diamond but if you really want some advice, we need more info on the diamond proportions. Any diamond that size and with a decent cut will sparkle but if you really want to get picky, find out the proportions..
 
All the information i got is what I listed. I''d have to ask the store for any additional details.
 
The crown and pavillian angles in relation to depth etc will be very helpful in determining cut performance. You could then use the HCA tool in the Tools Section to help narrow down your choice (SEE ABOVE TOOLS SECTION). Anything below 2 should perform very well. Anything slightly above could be good. You can practice with the tool by inputing the blue nile stone you found.
 
Is IF someting that you want for sure or is that just the stone they had? Kinda nice to have some inclusions to be able to identify your stone with a Loupe. If there is no reason or cultural reasons, then you could easily do a VS1 and be safe as far as eye clean goes... You could get close to a 4ct too.
 
I think it is what they had in the store. I didn''t specifically ask for it, but I thought it was better to get the best clarity you could within the budget.
The last time I looked at a ring, I was at Tiffany''s and we looked at a round 3.25 G VS1. I don''t recall all the proportions but the price was in the $135K range, so the Graff 3.69 G IF stone didn''t seem outrageously priced in comparison.
 
Get an ACA from WF, set in their classic tiff setting (looks the same, Tiffs staff have even commented on my ''tiffany setting'') and use that extra $18k for some matching studs!!!! 18k difference is crazy talk money!!!
 
You really can't see anything past VS1 (or VS2 most of the time) so if you want the best bang I would drop the IF criteria. I would not go any lower than VS1/VS2 clarity for this size of a stone. G is very safe too but you could even go to an F or E if you went with a VS1 for the same price.

As for the band, it is replicated at alot of places so I would not worry about it too much. I will post some general specs you want to stay in if you want the best cut. It may be hard to find in a stone this size but it is worth a shot.

I was going to recommend an ACA stone but I did not see any in stock besides that H VS1 at 3 ct. And an H can be a little warm at this size in my opinion regardless of it being an ACA cut. Expecially in a setting that will expose the sides. But with that said, they can find you a stone and run all the tests on it too which would take all the guess work out. Check out whiteflash.com

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_details.aspx?idno=1466923
I bought this stone a few weeks ago and it is a stunner. They are a great company. So if they can find you a stone, it will be the best of the best.
 
Date: 12/19/2008 7:52:05 PM
Author: TraderDude
All the information i got is what I listed. I'd have to ask the store for any additional details.
You can certainly do so but the main thing is if you love the diamond as larger diamonds are scarce anyway and it is an IF clarity.

In order for us to make a good comparison we need the details of the BN diamond, depth, table, angles etc.
 
Here is the info on the BN diamond:
Carat weight: 3.69
Cut: Ideal
Color: G
Clarity: IF

Depth %: 62.7%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 9.76 x 9.85 x 6.15 mm
 
Date: 12/20/2008 10:36:50 AM
Author: TraderDude
Here is the info on the BN diamond:
Carat weight: 3.69
Cut: Ideal
Color: G
Clarity: IF

Depth %: 62.7%
Table %: 57%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 9.76 x 9.85 x 6.15 mm
Thanks!

Do you have the crown and pavilion angles please or the link or report number? The angles are a very important piece of info if you can get them.
 
Out of all of the large stones under 140000 this stone actually hase the best proportions IMO by far. The bonus is that it has all the nice proportions and it even has a 15.5 crown which look awesome! The price is signficantly lower due to it being a VS2 and not being as rare as an IF but it looks to be beautifull!
Very tight symmetry too with a 9.73 to 9.75.... Blue Nile is easy to work with. You can call an reserve at any time and ou have 30 days to return. So you can easily take it to an idependent appraisor in the meantime to confirm your stone and get honest feedback. The medium blue should not be an issue.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-3-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-vs2-clarity_LD01393667?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0


More worth considering but a over the price of the stones you mentioned:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-4-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-vs2-clarity_LD01390138?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0
The 34 crown and 41 pavillion combo is probably complementary. Nice table and depth too...

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-4-carat-ideal-cut-f-color-vs2-clarity_LD01260107?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0
Another option. 35 crown 40.8 pavillion. This combo usually works well.
 
Date: 12/20/2008 10:51:32 AM
Author: beach
I have found the stone and the crown is 35 and the pavilion is 41.
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-3-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-if-clarity_LD01430705?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

This stone could have some significant light leakage with the crown, paviilion and overral depth. An Ideal scope is really needed with this kind or proportions IMO.

You could get the above stone and pick up an ideal scope for 25 dollars to see for youself.
Thanks for the link.

The diamond is borderline steep deep at 35/ 41, GIA round the angles so depending on which way they are rounded, the diamond could be perfectly fine or show some leakage, however even at 35/ 41 if there is any light leakage resulting from the angles, it may not be much or spoil the performance and beauty of the diamond. It has a little extra depth, however it is still within an acceptable range.

An Idealscope would be extremely useful, you could buy one as Beach says, they are easy to use and to interpret the results. But it might be best to have it sent to an idependant appraiser which I would absolutely want to do if I was the one purchasing at this price point to get an expert opinion on the diamond and the quality of the cut. BN do have a 30 day return policy so plenty of time to get an appraisal done.

Idealscope purchase info. http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y

How to interpret the results of Idealscope - http://www.ideal-scope.com/using_reference_chart.asp

Appraiser listing so you can find one in your area. https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx
 
HI:

For comparison sake, here is a screen capture of several stones from the JA site database....

http://www.jamesallen.com/search_results.asp?cid=131&step=SearchResults&sbmt=1&shape=Round&carat_from=3.3&carat_to=4.5&price=&color="D"&clarity='IF'&clarity='VVS1'&clarity='VVS2'&clarity='VS1'&isHA=1&cut_grade=1&fromtabledepth=&totabledepth=&fromtablesize=&totablesize=&x=58&y=11

ETA: In viewing the 4.18 G & H VVS1 stones, I think the certs are mixed up (GIA not AGS, etc...)..and some price differences noted...

BTW, will Graff negotiate with the $? I somehow think they will....

cheers--Sharon
 
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