Need help getting the right Princess Cut in my budget

[msf12555]

Hello All,

I am looking to purchase a 1 Carat Princess Cut, but I am having a heck of a time deciding, mostly because I want to get the best I can for my budget. I am looking to spend about 5000-6000 (on the diamond only, I'll deal with the setting later). I would like the color to be no worse than H, and clarity in the VS1-VS2 range. Cut would definitely prefer Ideal / Excellent. I have so many questions about things that are confusing though...

First of all, it looks like GIA doesn't grade cut quality on Princess cuts? Does that mean that I would absolutely HAVE to get an AGS Ideal to get the best quality diamond? Here is an example:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2765435.htm

And another:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2765538.htm

Here is one from James Allen with better color and noticeably more expensive...

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Very%20Good-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1453159.asp

That is a good looking Princess cut (based solely on what I've read about diamond numbers, PLEASE tell me if I am wrong) from WF that is said to be an excellent cut. However, if GIA doesn't grade Princess cuts, where is this "excellent" coming from? Do I really need to get an AGS cert, since they grade the actual cut? Would getting one of those IS images from the dealer suffice instead?

I have heard people say that the table needs to be under 68% for a princess cut, but I have also heard that over 68 but under 74 is no biggie. Thoughts?

I also noticed that on WF that diamonds that are not AGS don't have figures like crown angle and pavilion angle...is that going to be a problem?

Thanks for reading, and any input that you have would be GREATLY appreciated. I have done a lot of reading, but still feel like I am flying blind here. Any suggestions, pointers, and even critisim of the ones I posted above are definitely welcome. Thanks in advance for all your help.

P.S. If you see diamonds other than the ones I posted from reputable sites that you think would be a good fit, I am certainly open to suggestions. Thanks again!

 

[slg47]

The diamonds from whiteflash you listed are not AGS ideal. the polish and symmetry are excellent but that does not tell you anything about the light return. If you are looking at princess cuts with GIA reports I would look for a vendor who supplies ASET images because that will tell you about the light performance.

this diamond looks awesome and is within budget.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2763535.htm

 

[msf12555]

slg,

Sorry, my post was a little confusing. The diamonds that I was posting were examples of GIA certs, so I was wondering how those were getting excellent cut grades if the GIA doesn't rate cuts for princess cut diamonds. Sorry about that.

I did see the one you referenced on WF. Two questions...the table is 62...is that too small? Also, it does have a pointed cutlet...any issues there?

Also, I have heard of the ASET images that you refer to. Is that something that you can request from a vendor like James Allen or WF? Would they provide that free of charge, or is that something one would have to pay for? I believe that James Allen provides IdealScope images when requested, would that suffice instead of ASET? Thanks for the help, truly appreciated.

 

[yssie]

Hello All,

I am looking to purchase a 1 Carat Princess Cut, but I am having a heck of a time deciding, mostly because I want to get the best I can for my budget. I am looking to spend about 5000-6000 (on the diamond only, I'll deal with the setting later). I would like the color to be no worse than H, and clarity in the VS1-VS2 range. Cut would definitely prefer Ideal / Excellent. I have so many questions about things that are confusing though...

First of all, it looks like GIA doesn't grade cut quality on Princess cuts? Does that mean that I would absolutely HAVE to get an AGS Ideal to get the best quality diamond? Here is an example:

No. Some vendors just prefer to send everything to GIA, AGSL is by comparison a much smaller enterprise

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2765435.htm

And another:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2765538.htm

Those are virtual stones, meaning that WF doesn't own them or have them in-house for immediate inspection. They'd have to confirm that they're available, call them in, and then inspect them, and virtual stones won't automatically come with the generous policies that WF will provide on their in-house lines - it's on a stone by stone basis.

Here is one from James Allen with better color and noticeably more expensive...

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Very%20Good-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1453159.asp

That is a good looking Princess cut (based solely on what I've read about diamond numbers, PLEASE tell me if I am wrong) from WF that is said to be an excellent cut. However, if GIA doesn't grade Princess cuts, where is this "excellent" coming from? Do I really need to get an AGS cert, since they grade the actual cut? Would getting one of those IS images from the dealer suffice instead?

Yes, professional review + ASET photo would be sufficient for finding a lovely stone

I have heard people say that the table needs to be under 68% for a princess cut, but I have also heard that over 68 but under 74 is no biggie. Thoughts?

No need to stick to unforgiving lines in the sand - fancies are best chosen by eyes. A given princess w/ a 74 table might be much nicer than another princess w/ a 64 table.. just depends on how all the proportions are working together... review + ASET will tell you more

I also noticed that on WF that diamonds that are not AGS don't have figures like crown angle and pavilion angle...is that going to be a problem?

GIA does not list c/p for fancies, no. Many vendors will provide that info and more on their in-house stones though - scans, photos, reviews, etc.

Thanks for reading, and any input that you have would be GREATLY appreciated. I have done a lot of reading, but still feel like I am flying blind here. Any suggestions, pointers, and even critisim of the ones I posted above are definitely welcome. Thanks in advance for all your help.

P.S. If you see diamonds other than the ones I posted from reputable sites that you think would be a good fit, I am certainly open to suggestions. Thanks again!

The JA you linked is definitely promising - higher colour than you wanted, but request review + ASET if interested (JA will provide info on three stones free)

Here are a few that caught my eye -

1.016 G VS2 ACA $6.3k http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2763533.htm
1.028 H VS2 ACA $5.4k http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2763535.htm

1.20 H VS1 $5.9k 5.83x5.78mm http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Good-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1441920.asp
This w/ a 79 table looks really nice, but has exthk girdle
1.06 G VS1 5.75x5.53mm $5.8k http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1448096.asp
It's kinda out-of-square - probably noticeable IRL but probably easy to minimize w/ a clever setting job. Looks like a nice one otherwise.. 2008 report so you'll want to confirm the report represents the current condition of the stone - no wear and tear in the years since the report was issued
1.01 G VS1 $5.3k 5.50x5.43mm http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Very%20Good-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1314652.asp also looks nice but exthk girdle

Check out www.goodoldgold.com and www.briangavindiamonds.com as well



ETA: slg beat me to it
ASET pics are photos taken through an ASET scope - the red and green ones. WF displays these on the website for all in-house stones, they will photograph virtuals as well if you have them call them in. JA provides 3 ISs free for rounds and 3 ASETs free for fancies like princesses.
GIA calls a pointed culet "none", AGSL calls it "pointed" - same thing. Just means there isn't a flat facet at the bottom of the stone.

 

[msf12555]

Yssie

Wow!! Thank you so much for answering all those questions. I took your advice and just got off the phone with James Allen. They put it on hold and requested the ASET image for me, which should be here in the next day or two. I am assuming that I can post the image here in the forum and get feedback??

I wanted to ask a few more things if I could (sorry, I am a real information whore when it comes to things like this, lol). You said that getting an ASET image + professional review would be okay. Am I supposed to ask someone at James Allen for this review, or are you just talking about having people here on PS check out the ASET image when it gets here?

Any harm in ordering the setting separately? I just don't have enough for both right now. However, if there is a huge bonus to getting the setting at the same time (lifetime guarantee if the diamond falls out, etc) then I could wait.

Thanks for all the help. I hope you understand how valuable this is to a newbie. Truly, much appreciated

 

[Gypsy]

This is a tutorial on how to read the ASET and they also provide a nice visual example of princess ASET images and what they mean. http://www.lexusindia.in/products/gb-aset-scope.aspx

But yes, if you post them, we will be happy to tell you what we think.

 

[slg47]

Yssie

Wow!! Thank you so much for answering all those questions. I took your advice and just got off the phone with James Allen. They put it on hold and requested the ASET image for me, which should be here in the next day or two. I am assuming that I can post the image here in the forum and get feedback??

I wanted to ask a few more things if I could (sorry, I am a real information whore when it comes to things like this, lol). You said that getting an ASET image + professional review would be okay. Am I supposed to ask someone at James Allen for this review, or are you just talking about having people here on PS check out the ASET image when it gets here?

Any harm in ordering the setting separately? I just don't have enough for both right now. However, if there is a huge bonus to getting the setting at the same time (lifetime guarantee if the diamond falls out, etc) then I could wait.

Thanks for all the help. I hope you understand how valuable this is to a newbie. Truly, much appreciated

JA will review all diamonds that they provide an ASET image for. They will review up to 3 diamonds so I would ask for 3 if you did not already so you have something to compare!

As far as the setting, it is easiest to get it from the same vendor because then the stone (usually, check w/vendor) is covered during the setting process. You can get outside insurance for this but it is easier to just stay with the same vendor. Also you would avoid shipping and mounting fees (if you got the setting at a different vendor they may charge a few hundred dollars to set an outside stone).

 

[msf12555]

Slg,

Thanks for the suggestion about having them do three diamonds at once. I have a couple possibles below, you think these are worth a check? (If I only get three, I just want to make sure that I don't waste one on a diamond that is obviously not worth it).

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1462457.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1471635.asp

Those seem to be fairly similar to the original F-VS1 that I requested an ASET image for. Any outwardly noticeable issues with those? Thanks again for the help.

 

[msf12555]

Just as a quick update...

I requested ASET images for all three of the James Allen stones that have been discussed in this post. They said it will take a day or two to get for me, so I will post them once I get them, and hopefully everyone can help me make sense of them.