Need help finding an Asscher Stone

[cymbrie]

Hi Monk, to be perfectly honest I had no idea you were asian

I just remember reading a thread saying that many asian cultures prize clarity in a diamond over any other C because of the purity/chastity it signifies. I saw that you were very adamant about the stone being IF and thought that might be a valuable insight for you. Pure coincidence that your ethnic heritage happens to coincide. I''m half asian myself though so perhaps I paid more attention to that detail

. I still stand by my previous statement however, that if I found a well cut eye-clean SI1 asscher I would DEFINITELY consider it for economic reasons. My reasoning behind this includes monetary savings, but also the idea that we all have flaws that make us unique as do all stones at some magnification. Also, if you take the diamond to anyone for cleaning/appraising etc. knowing the inclusion plots of your particular diamond is like a thumbprint identifier to verify your diamond is in fact YOURS. JohnQuixote has some great input on eye-clean SI1s as well. Btw storm, JohnQuixote, and other PSers we asscher lovers are fortunate to have expert opinions to guide our purchases.

 

[strmrdr]

eye-clean si1s asschers
I havent seen one and iv seen more si1s than other clarity grades.
They are the most common in my area.
Are there some out there sure... but at $35-$40 backs a pop bringing them in your going to waste an awefull lot of money.
Like I told David the other day a vendor claiming to have a source put up or shut up becuase they will sell if they are well cut.
woofers need not apply because an eyeclean woofer is still a woofer :}

 

[cymbrie]

Hee hee thanks for the input Storm remember I DID say IF I you could find an eye-clean SI1, I do remember one a few weeks back that you thought was ok...of course I can''t remember who''s it was now.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/13/2005 8:05:56 PM
Author: cymbrie
Hee hee thanks for the input Storm remember I DID say IF I you could find an eye-clean SI1, I do remember one a few weeks back that you thought was ok...of course I can''t remember who''s it was now.

I had forgoten about that one, they do exist but finding one is a needle in a hay stack. :}
Did the person ever report back if it was actualy eyeclean when they got it?
I dont recall.

 

[Kaleigh]

I don''t think they ever did. Could be wrong. So many asschers lately.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/13/2005 8:14:18 PM
Author: kaleigh
So many asschers lately.

Isnt that kewl :}
I love it that they are taking off.

 

[Monk]

Hello everyone,
Thanks for replaying with such good info. I have an update on some of the searches. Well, I called GoG and asked for Jon, but he was busy so I spoke with Tim. He was very helpful and sent a few specs of diamonds that I would like to post. Here they are: PS. I have also linked a few prospects on WF that I thought might need some looking into.

http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-2155794.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-2156327.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-1877550.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-2169737.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-1745044.htm

Hm, I can''t seem to post the *.gif file so I guess I''ll just have to do it the old fashion way.
Stone1:
style: Square Emerald Cut
Measurements: 5.99x5.97x4.07
Weight: 1.16 ct
Depth: 68.2%
Table: 59 %
Girdle: Medium
Cutlet: None
Polish: Ex
Symmetry: Ex
Clarity: si1
color: D
Fluorescence: Medium Blue

Stone2:
Style: Square Emerald Cut
Measurements: 5.42x5.38x3.90
Weight: 1.01 ct
Depth: 72.5%
Table: 62 %
Girdle: Thick
Cutlet: None
Polish: Ex
Symmetry: Vg
Clarity: vs2
color: F
Fluorescence: None

Stone3:
Style : Emerald Cut
Measurements: 5.83x5.50x3.75
Weight: 1.07 ct
Depth: 68.2%
Table: 64 %
Girdle: slightly thick to thick
Cutlet: None
Polish: Vg
Symmetry: Vg
Clarity: Vs2
color: e
Fluorescence: None

Also, I mentioned your name strmrdr

. Let''s just say that he said you are very picky about asscher!

which too me is a good thing.

. Oh and cymbrie, I understand exactly what your saying about being economical. The initial specs where kind of a starting point. Because I didn''t know that much about it. I just thought that, "Hey, this is the best since it is at the top kind of thing". That''s why I joined the forum to get advice and help from people who do this more often then I do. I did look at the facts section for asschers and there is something about Old look and New/Modern look. Also, does Fluorescence really matter for Asschers? I think this is a quote from strmrdr. Please forgive me if the quote is off and hopefully I didn''t fudge any of the numbers.

"the best of the modern interpretations will have roughly 10%-12% crown height, med range girdle, table under 61 and and a depth of %60-%65.
The cutting on these has to be spot on or they bark."

"The classic style with have crown heights 10% to 15%+ ,tables under 61% with mid to high 50s being better, and total depth of 68%-75%
There is a little greater variation tolerance in these and they can still look awesome."

Oh, and specs have changed some. I think size matters a little more than clarity in this case as well.
Thanks for all of the help.,
Monk

Oh, I almost forgot, a local Jewerler I also went to found this stone for me.

LocalStone:
Style : Square Emerald Cut
Measurements: 6.39x6.13x3.46
Weight: 1.09 ct
Depth: 56.4%
Table: 73 %
Girdle: medium toslightly thick
Cutlet: None
Polish: g
Symmetry: g
Clarity: IF
color: g
Fluorescence: faint

 

[belle]

hey monk

what are your priorities? do you need high color/clarity? depending on the level of fluroescence, it can have an effect on any stone. your eye won''t be able to detect anything below med. blue in normal viewing conditions and the effect of anything stronger depends a lot on the overall body color and your perception.

i wouldn''t bother with the stone from your local guy. it''s quite shallow and has a big table...probably a low crown as well. it will look like a big piece of glass.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 12/13/2005 4:16:49 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

...There are great eye-clean SI asschers to be had, just as there are in rounds. SI bears examination in any shape but we have sourced and sold incredible SI1 (and SI2) asschers that are eye-clean. It depends on the specific diamond and there is no way to tell the level of eye-clean unless you have it in-hand. In one of these threads it was also said (may have been someone else) that asschers below I will always show color. That isn't true. The particulars of each specific diamond influence face-up color. Remember there are also subdivisions within color grades, so a borderline I-J asscher that was strictly graded could be a J on paper but may face up like an I, or maybe even more colorless...

Date: 12/13/2005 5:35:41 PM
Author: strmrdr

We have all seen and laughed at the guote unquote asschers WF has in stock.
If thats an indication of the other 990 i think ill stick with my own observations.
Thanks :}

Date: 12/13/2005 5:42:31 PM
Author: strmrdr

The WF opinion on what a acceptable asscher is and what one actualy is are two vastly different things.

My post about the existence of good SI/J asschers was fair and reasonable input. It may be contrary to your personal preferences, but it is factual information that can save shoppers money. I don’t know why you felt the need to attack my company.

Your enthusiasm for asschers is well-documented and noted on Pricescope, but it’s relevant for new readers to understand that your enthusiasm is driven as a consumer, not an industry insider or expert. Your friends here support you as an asscher enthusiast which is fine. No one is threatening that, but when you attack reasonable color & clarity comments like those above it looks like you are protecting ‘cyber-turf’ by disallowing input from others.

You have often said no one tool or set of data is enough to make a judgment on diamonds, especially with fancies. Since you have never laid your eyes on any WF square emerald cut (asscher) it seems contradictory of you to make a sweeping dismissal of every one of them AND anything we might have available to call in. Such a dismissal is especially misleading since most of your preferences and judgments have been developed not through actually seeing diamonds but by looking at them on a computer screen.

I am sure you can help people find nice asschers via computer. Again, no one is moving in on your forum ‘turf’ so you can relax. I hope it will be possible for others, including trade professionals, to offer comments in these threads without being attacked.

We serve many consumers’ needs and budgets. Our asscher clients are as important to us as anyone. Your insults were uncalled-for. For the sake of balanced perspective in this thread, maybe Richardalex, Jorman or any others who have recently purchased asschers from WF can contribute thoughts about their diamonds from a real-life viewing perspective.

 

[coda72]

I know nothing about asschers, but I thought I''d throw in a comment here. I think strm was a little harsh in what he said about Whiteflash''s asscher selection, but I do have to admit that if I were buying an asscher, I would probably not go to Whiteflash because it isn''t their specialty. For an ideal round brilliant, you better believe I would consider Whiteflash if not first, then near the top of the list. But for a fancy, I would probably go elsewhere. I just took a look at their expert selection of asschers, and there was only one that was visually appealing from the pictures shown (the 2.84 carat J). Most of the pictures were of the actual stones too. I''m sure they can obtain asschers, and so can other vendors, but if you want an asscher that''s already in stock, they probably aren''t the place to go.

I hope this isn''t seen as a personal attack also, because it was far from that. It was just an observation I made. In fact, I''m pretty much an impartial observer since I don''t own an asscher and don''t know much about them.

 

[elmo]

John, the way I ready Strm''s comments was that he thought your in stock selection wasn''t so hot based on the photos and IS images but that you''ve brought in some pretty nice ones on a number of occasions. I didn''t read it as an attack. I''ve also thought that on average, your photos for called in stones look better than the stock stones whenever I''ve gone over there for a look. Of course the great photo work you do doesn''t always translate into how the stone shows in a ring I guess.

 

[Monk]

Hey,
I don''t mean to sound rude or out of place, but could we please keep this on topic

. I appreciate the help, but if this will lead to an argument, I would rather not continue if people will get all bent out of shape about it. I am asking for opinion on what would be a good stone from people that know more than myself. Everyone''s opinion will very per person. Some find this or that appealing, it just depends. So please if you do not have anything to contribute or any suggestions, please refrain from posting.

Specs in order:

1.Cut/Size
2.Color
3.Clarity

I just want to find something that is acceptable, and for me. I asked strmrdr for help because a majority of posters here where very happy with his criteria/selection (from what I have read). Also the fact that he is picky on his criteria and seems very enthusiastic about Asschers espcially. Like I said before, the First criteria was based on the fact that I had no Idea what to look for, just specs. Generally speaking, for me anyway, I would go for the best specs(me being on the technical side). In the case of choosing a stone, it seems there are many things to consider and a lot of it depends on opinion.
I hope I did not offend anyone. I would still really appreciate the help in finding/selecting a stone.


Thanks

,
Monk.

 

[strmrdr]

http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-2155794.htm

would need to be called in, otherwise looks ok by the numbers

http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-2156327.htm

same diamond as above posted under another number, not in stock.

http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-1877550.htm
borderline too off square for me.

http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-2169737.htm
small table kewl, deepish but ok

http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-1745044.htm
small table kewl, deepish but ok


I would like to see some real pictures of the last 2.

cant tell much by the numbers other than a starting point.

 

[coda72]

I personally think this one is worth checking out if you're willing to go down to a VS2 in clarity.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?aff_id=ps621&cid=131&item=430433&scsize=1024

If you would still prefer an IF stone, here's one that looks good.

http://www.bluenile.com/offer.asp?offer=ANOV45

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 12/14/2005 2:02:32 PM
Author: Monk
Hey,
I don't mean to sound rude or out of place, but could we please keep this on topic

. I appreciate the help, but if this will lead to an argument, I would rather not continue if people will get all bent out of shape about it. I am asking for opinion on what would be a good stone from people that know more than myself. Everyone's opinion will very per person. Some find this or that appealing, it just depends. So please if you do not have anything to contribute or any suggestions, please refrain from posting.

Monk, I agree with you and appreciate your tone.

The contribution I hoped to make was simple color and clarity advice: Diamonds should not be dismissed based on borderline clarity or color without having viewed them - or having an expert view them - or you may miss out on a great find. I'm sorry that comment resulted in a brouhaha about WF (?)

For your use, Coda and Elmo had valid points: WF has never claimed that asschers are our specialty, and we likely never will. We are not trading our square emeralds as being equivalent to Royal Asschers. However, we trade them as great value for the money in their class and category, and have many delighted clients. As a vendor I can't comment on particular candidates but I will be glad to offer advice in broad areas.

As far as input, we encourage you to listen to all voices.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/14/2005 11:18:50 AM
Author: Monk

Looks like Tim needs to look around a little more for some more options.
That supplier looks a little sold out on em.


Stone1: <-- pass unless its the needle in the hay stack.

style: Square Emerald Cut

Measurements: 5.99x5.97x4.07

Weight: 1.16 ct

Depth: 68.2%

Table: 59 %

Girdle: Medium

Cutlet: None

Polish: Ex

Symmetry: Ex

Clarity: si1

color: D

Fluorescence: Medium Blue


Stone2: <--- deepish need pics.

Style: Square Emerald Cut

Measurements: 5.42x5.38x3.90

Weight: 1.01 ct

Depth: 72.5%

Table: 62 %

Girdle: Thick

Cutlet: None

Polish: Ex

Symmetry: Vg

Clarity: vs2

color: F

Fluorescence: None


Stone3:

Style : Emerald Cut <-- off square

Measurements: 5.83x5.50x3.75

Weight: 1.07 ct

Depth: 68.2%

Table: 64 %

Girdle: slightly thick to thick

Cutlet: None

Polish: Vg

Symmetry: Vg

Clarity: Vs2

color: e

Fluorescence: None



Oh, I almost forgot, a local Jewerler I also went to found this stone for me.


LocalStone:

Style : Square Emerald Cut <--- off square

Measurements: 6.39x6.13x3.46

Weight: 1.09 ct

Depth: 56.4%

Table: 73 %

Girdle: medium toslightly thick

Cutlet: None

Polish: g

Symmetry: g

Clarity: IF

color: g

Fluorescence: faint

 

[Monk]

Cool Beans,
I will give Tim a call to see if I can get pics of the second stone. As for the the stones that are "Off Square"- Does that mean that it''s not really an asscher? Hey coda72, thanks for the suggestion!
I will look into it. I can''t get to the one on bluenile though. Please, keep them coming.


Thanks,
Monk

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/14/2005 5:29:32 PM
Author: Monk
Cool Beans,

I will give Tim a call to see if I can get pics of the second stone. As for the the stones that are ''Off Square''- Does that mean that it''s not really an asscher? Hey coda72, thanks for the suggestion!

I will look into it. I can''t get to the one on bluenile though. Please, keep them coming.



Thanks,

Monk

The trade would likely consider them asschers and some people like them but even a small amount of being visibly off square bugs me.
GOG can usualy get the same diamonds as blue-nile and offers more information so if you see something there your interested in have Tim look into calling it in.

 

[widget]

Author: Monk
As for the the stones that are ''Off Square''- Does that mean that it''s not really an asscher?

I think the term "asscher" is really used loosely. Lots use it to describe any squarish stone...be it an EC, Sq.Step Cut, or whatever. Some think to be a true asscher, the stone must be an octagon with deep cut corners. The GIA does not use the term on it''s reports..

Here''s a picture of two stones...the one on the right is clearly a rectangle, but still has an ''asscheresque'' quality. The one on the right (mine) is more squarish, but still obviously "off square" (note the elongated culet)

I think they''re both lovely no matter what you want to call them!

It really is a matter of personal taste...

widget

 

[Mara]

Date: 12/13/2005 5:35:41 PM
Author: strmrdr

We have all seen and laughed at the guote unquote asschers WF has in stock.
If thats an indication of the other 990 i think ill stick with my own observations.
Thanks :}

Now that's just mean. You can have your differences with WF's asschers or John or whatever...we all don't have to be best friends here or always agree, but PS isn't about ridiculing anyone strm, you know that.

Monk, I hope you find a great asscher. With asschers, using your eyes is very important, YOU have to love the look and the pattern, it will be your stone. They are trickier than rounds!!

 

[valeria101]

What''s up here?

Is there a standard for modern Asscher cut diamonds?

I didn''t know...

I do know my taste is not that.

And Strm''s taste cannot be such a standard either. (We could disagree about this on another thread

, Strm)



If anybody''s taste is worth only the chance that anyone else would agree... chances are allot of folk will not agree with me. And unlike diamond sellers, appraisers and cutters I do not have much experience at all with what buyers appreciate in general. And this is why I appreciate and respect their (sometimes conflicting) opinions. It is great to learn from them and few places outside the Industry where this can be done quickly - this forum is one, IMO.

At some point, it may be worth to sit down and try to discuss what constitutes objective quality for this cut or any other, without personal taste involved. It does sound relatively difficult, but why not. As far as I know, this has not been done.

My 2c

 

[Monk]

Date: 12/15/2005 2:48:45 AM
Author: valeria101



At some point, it may be worth to sit down and try to discuss what constitutes objective quality for this cut or any other, without personal taste involved. It does sound relatively difficult, but why not. As far as I know, this has not been done.


My 2c

good point valeria101. That would have made it easier to look for a stone. Or at least a great starting point. Especially for newbs like me. Basically, it seems that most of you all are saying that opinion of the buyer is what really matters? Great information, so far. Getting a little bit better on what I am looking at, I think. However, still confused at what would be considered good. Man, never thought that looking at stuff like this would be so difficult.

I guess it''s just the stress of the holiday season as well. I wish it were something like building a pc so that you can go by specs or build your own.

.

 

[cymbrie]

Echoing Val''s point I think it would be nice to have a whole section/string on objective qualities for Asscher/Sq ECs cuts. They are growing in popularity and it would be most helpful for many prospective asscher buyers.

 

[RichardAlex]

Some thoughts.

My approach to buying the asscher that I ended up with was that I was searching for the best stone first, and planned to follow it with the best setting that matched what I wanted. I used this board and did quite a bit of work in terms of constructively valuing and discarding different things that I read over time. Frankly in terms of buying from GOG, Blue Nile, WF, James Allen, etc, etc, and very etc, what was most important to me was to understand very clearly what I was looking for FIRST. In that, I mean research ahead of time was the most important thing.

Storm''s input was important and consistent, as was that of many others that I read on this board, most particularly on specs, pics and specifics. (Great board - yes) Getting wrapped around the axles on any one vendor plus or minus is in my mind just not a good idea. It does seem like the negatives have more emphasis on this thread re WF, not sure why.

For me, WF was not the fist vendor that I looked at. It was the first that came through totally for me, and I was very discriminating. I will tell you that after considerable research, Bob at WF just plain and simple gave me solid advice that matched what I had researched in terms of specs and requirements in terms of pics, Sarin and idealscope images. I posted the pics etc here, (After great advice from this board), and got solid feedback, and I went from there. It was a very good experience. Does that mean that every product WF has is great - of course not. Does it mean that they have the most inventory of asschers out there. Of course not. It means that after all is said and done, do your homework and WORK at finding what meets your needs.

Sheesh...didn''t mean for this to be such a long e-mail.... but WF did indeed do a great job for me, AND Storms input in terms of specs and ideas were absolutely valuable, right on in my mind, and meant quite a bit.

Does XYZ company have more asschers in stock today than ABC company.... maybe. Does that mean that you will always get the best deal and find exactly what you want after you have done real research for yourself with XYZ co....MAYBE....Maybe Not. Don''t kid yourself, IMO it should just help rank where one might start a search, not where one ends it..


My WF experience was a good one. So was Storms input, and others. Time to move on.

 

[Kaleigh]

Well said Richard, thanks.

 

[cymbrie]

Great response Richard, right on the money and your asscher was definitely one of the nicest I''ve seen! I have seen the nicest asschers come from GOG, WF, ERD, NiceIce and James Allen (in no particular order btw). I think it really boils down to who you personally enjoy/feel comfortable working with and bottom line who can get the best stone that matches your criteria.

 

[BrookeUSF]

I am really new to this site but I have a 1.06 VS1 asscher and I love it. I can not see any inclusions by looking down into it or anything and for the record, I walked into a jewelry store yesterday and asked to look at a 1.03 round compared to my 1.06 asscher and it looked the same size. I thought that was great since one person on another thread stated that a 1 carat asscher only looks like 1/2 carat round. That is completley subjective to the depth. Sorry to get carried away.

 

[cymbrie]

Hi BrookeUSF welcome to PS and thank you for sharing your input on asschers. I''m sure I''m not alone in saying I''d LOVE to see your ring. You should post it in the "Show Me the Ring" Forum!

Monk-
Any luck finding some rocks, any more specs/pix for us to review?

 

[Monk]

Hey cymbrie,
I haven''t yet, as soon as I do I will post it asap. With Christmas just around the corner, I have been pulled in so many directions. This is still on top of my priorities though. I''ll keep you all updated with more information as it comes in.

Thanks,
Monk.

 

[Hest88]

For the record, I consider myself well-versed on asschers, even though I definitely am not up on all the numbers the way Strmr is!

When I sister was looking for one I sent her to a handful of vendors whom I knew understood the difference between an asscher appearance and a square emerald. GOG was one of them, Nice Ice was another, and DCD was honest enough to tell her they had nothing that would work. She ended up with Whiteflash and had a great experience with Bob. I don''t think Strmr was very impressed with the stone but I was and other people I trust were, so take that for what it''s worth.

My two cents. The pinwheel effect is more mesmerizing the larger you get, so definitely sacrifice clarity (which you can''t see) for size.

However, it''s still a step cut, so both color and inclusions *can* be more visible.

Also, since unlike round diamonds that pinwheel effect has to be judged visually, I always suggest first finding a jeweler you trust and then asking their opinion. In my sister''s case, she gave Bob her parameters and he was able to talk to her on the phone and via email to make sure it would be a stone she''d be happy with before sending it out for her inspection. He was able to tell her it was eye-clean, white, and had a lovely asscher effect.

I guess I just don''t see the value in sorting through a gazillion stones by myself when a trusted jeweler can do it more quickly and with the stones right in front of him.