Need help evaluating a sapphire rough

[yukabby]

Hello
My boyfriend and I got engaged and are looking for a stone for my engagement ring. I decided that I would like a sapphire, as I like the color and I like that it would be somewhat unique.

We've been educated pretty much solely from Pricescope. I've looked at the sapphires for sale at gemfix.com and some other online vendors listed in the CS vendors thread. We would like to get a ~2ct round sapphire set in a platinum solitaire (I like the Vatche Royal Crown).

We have also contacted several custom sapphire cutters to see what they have to offer. None of the people I contacted had any deep medium blue sapphires available for a round cut. However, one sent back pictures of what he describes as a light medium blue. The pictures he sent were a little lighter than what I originally envisioned, but I think it is blue enough, and my boyfriend prefers the lighter color. I was originally envisioning something a little brighter and bluer.

I was hoping some more experienced people here would be able to tell me if this is a good sapphire rough? The top two photos were taken in natural light, while the bottom one that looks more purplish-blue was taken in indoor fluorescent light. The top one was taken outside, and middle was taken with light through a window (to minimize the effect of blue sky overhead accentuating the color). I think it is interesting that it changes from blue to purplish and I rather like the idea. Is this usually a desirable trait for sapphires? How does this sapphire's color compare to the "ideal" color? This one appears to change a lot under different conditions, and I'm not quite sure what to expect when it is recut.

If I understand, I think the dark areas show a lot of extinction because it is a poorly cut rough. Taking into account that I would be having it precision cut by a highly recommended gem cutter, is this a good rough to start with? How much of this inconsistency in color and darkness would be removed by getting it recut? Are there any other things I should be aware of if I choose the custom cut route?

(I'm sorry if the pictures are poor quality, they are the only ones I have.)

Thanks

 

[chrono]

I was expecting to see a piece of rough from the title of the thread and was surprised instead to see an already cut stone. What the lapidary is doing is recutting a not so nice stone into something that will sparkle better. Colour-wise, what you see now will be very close to the final colour, except that you will see more areas of colour rather than the darkness or "deadness" in the current sapphire. I agree that the colour is a light medium blue and whether this is what you want is only a question you can answer.

Most sapphires will shift a little when going from indoors to outdoors and vice versa so a slight purplish shift is normal. Sapphires also look their best under diffused natural lighting so the first picture is the best the sapphire will ever look. The trade preferred colour is a medium dark blue with intense to vivid saturation. This sapphire is beautiful in its own way but not everyone will love it because colour preference is a personal preference. The improvement of colour consistency and brilliance will depend on the design selected and the skill of the lapidary.

 

[bobsiv]

You should have your precision cutter evaluate any candidates for you. Not all badly cut stones are suitable for a recut. Even for a stone with a good shape for a recut, you can still lose a lot of weight.

 

[Truthstar]

Interested in an unheated stone, that is the color you want? I just came across a cutter that is very very reasonable and quite good.

 

[yukabby]

Hi
Chrono - Thanks for the comments. Sorry if my title was confusing. The cutter referred to it as a "rough" in his email, so I assumed that would be the correct term. He did explain that he would be recutting it to get rid of the darkness. I just was not sure how completely one could "fix" this sapphire. I contacted him based on recommendations from this forum, and he seems very good based on his past work.

I think the color will work, its just on the lighter side of my preferred color range. But looking at some other sapphires, I think that the one in this thread appears to be similar in color, and I think the final ring looks amazing. If this stone can be recut into something as beautiful as this, I would be happy.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jeff-white-sapphire-brian-gavin-custom-ring.130700/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jeff-white-sapphire-brian-gavin-custom-ring.130700/[/URL]

Bobsiv - This is the stone that the cutter thought would work best for my desired shape and color range. I did ask him how much he thought would be lost in the recut. I'm not sure of the exact dimensions of this "rough", but I was hoping for a final product of about 2 ct, about 7mm diameter round sapphire. He says it would be suitable for the recut, and I trust his skill. Its just hard for me to envision what it will look like, since the beginning stone seems poor (in my untrained eyes). He did not give me any other choices, as he said he had no other stones good for a round shape.

Truthstar - I would be interested in your cutter's contact information, thank you
PS. I read your thread on the sapphire you bought from Gemfix. Funny enough, I actually had my eye on that same sapphire, the one described as a "chubby oval." I'm sorry you were disappointed in the inclusion at the bottom. I hope you find one that you like for your engagement ring!

 

[FrekeChild]

The beginning stone is really not going to give you a good idea of what the end result is going to look like, just an idea of the color.

He will be recutting it to get rid of the window (the area you can see through in the middle, most obvious in the first picture) and to get rid of the extinction (the darkness). I can tell from the pictures you've posted that this stone was cut very poorly, and any recut done to it will make it look much better.

No one is going to be able to give you a clear idea of what it'll look like once it's done being recut. I'm guessing, from the fact that you posted a Jeff White stone above, that JW is the person who will be doing the recut. If you aren't sure about the stone and the cutter, I'm sure someone else would be thrilled with whatever result he comes up with from this stone. Regardless of color, the cut will be beautiful, and I feel as though I can safely say that because I've never seen anything coming out of Jeff's shop that hasn't been absolutely gorgeous. Even if it's not JW, any precision lapidary can improve upon that stone.

 

[yukabby]

Hi FrekeChild, thank you for your comments.
Yes, you are correct Jeff White is the cutter that I contacted for the sapphire. I tried not to mention him originally bc I did not want to bias people's opinions. I was hoping to get some comments on the quality of the stone itself, if that is possible based only on the pictures. I know that he is highly regarded in this forum, and his work certainly looks good to my untrained eye.

If I understand correctly, then a good recut will eliminate all of the extinction areas? I'm not sure I see the window you are talking about, but the large areas of darkness concern me. Is that all a function of the cut, or is that also a sign of possible unevenness of color of the beginning stone?

 

[Michael_E]

If I understand, I think the dark areas show a lot of extinction because it is a poorly cut rough.

The dark reflections in a stone are something which seems to be poorly understood by many people. There are two things which cause dark areas. One is "extinction" whereby certain light paths through the stone are long enough and the stone dark enough that all light is absorbed in those areas. The other thing causing dark areas is a reflection of something dark in front of the stone such as a your head and upper body or a dark area in the room. A stone such as this, which has medium saturation can NEVER show extinction, since there is no light path through the stone which will absorb all of the light in any area of the stone. That stone is not all that poorly cut either. It could certainly use a recut, but it looks like it's fairly deep to me and so any recut should be done to try to maintain most of that depth or you will lose weight and color saturation...not a good combination.

Taking into account that I would be having it precision cut by a highly recommended gem cutter, is this a good rough to start with? How much of this inconsistency in color and darkness would be removed by getting it recut? Are there any other things I should be aware of if I choose the custom cut route?

It's a good looking stone and a good one for a recut. You may find that a recut will give you more even brightness and even make the dark areas less noticeable, but much of that depends upon the lighting under which you view the stone. Try viewing it outside on a bright overcast day, or in a bright room with light colored walls, (and no dark areas). Then vary the distance from your eyes to the gem see how that affects how it looks.

 

[ruffysdad]

I occasionally buy badly cut stones as what I consider a preform when I get them for a decent price. In fact I like them since they're easy to scope out for inclusions and generally come out with a high recovery. The basic thing I look for in one is a deep pavilion. No flatties. A deep pavilion allows for easy re-cutting to the correct angles and will usually leave enough material to put a correct or near correct crown on the finished stone. A side shot of your sapphire would be more helpful in evaluating it for a re-cut

Pete

 

[minousbijoux]

Good feedback, Pete. No pancakes, eh? But for those of us contemplating running out to do the same, its not as easy as it may seem - tiny little things that we laypeople may construe as feather, may be something ready to crack in half, or the zoning in the stone may make it cuttable in one direction only, or to get the "good" color, it may have to cut on a certain axis. It can be done, but there is a reason lapidaries make a living - because they know what to look for and how to do it, whereas we might *think* we know...

 

[yukabby]

Thanks for the initial feedback, everyone.
Thats interesting information regarding stones needing a deep pavilion, Pete. But I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable picking a stone for recutting.

I wanted to give an update as to my Jeff White Sapphire.
I've gotten word that the recut is complete, and here is the picture he sent. It is taken in natural light. It looks so beautiful, and I'm really excited to have it in hand soon. I asked him to send it for an AGL Gembrief to certify natural sapphire, no heat, so it may take a few more weeks before I get it. I guess I really shouldn't have worried, Jeff White does spectacular work! The recut looks so much better than the original that I am simply stunned!

So the specs are 2.15 cts, 7.31mm diameter, round brilliant cut.

 

[InToTheMystic]

That's a fantastic result! Gorgeous colour and sparkle!

 

[Michael_E]

I'm impressed! When you consider that pictures look much less attractive than the real deal, I think that this stone will be an absolute knockout on your hand!

 

[minousbijoux]

Jeff White never ceases to amaze me - your stone is stunning! Beautifully cut with great color. Symbolically a great way to start off on your journey together.

 

[ephsea]

I've looked at hundreds of sapphires in the last few months, and that is THE nicest round cut I've seen

 

[yukabby]

Thank you so much for the nice comments!
Yeah, I started out my search for a round sapphire, because I was picturing it in a round solitaire setting. I found out that rounds are not as common as the ovals, but I just Had to have a round. I'm glad I went the custom cut route, because now I have exactly what I was dreaming of! Jeff White has been a super excellent person to work with. I don't have the gem in hand yet, but all of my communication with him up to this point has been great. It took a while to complete because I think he is quite busy, but it was within the time frame he gave me, and the outcome was definitely worth the wait! I just hope its as beautiful in hand, but I can't wait to get it set in a ring!

 

[FrekeChild]

That's a really lovely blue sapphire. Please post pics when you get it!

 

[chrono]

Congrats on a successful project; the sapphire looks beautiful.

 

[deskjockey]

The before and after on that is just amazing.

 

[JewelFreak]

Wow, that came out SO beautifully! You have a wonderful sapphire now, joy!

 

[yukabby]

Thanks! Yes, I will remember to post pictures once I get it. I know how everyone on this forum loves pictures of shiny things

I agree - I almost couldn't believe it was the same stone, the before and after is so dramatically different! I guess this just goes to show how important a good cut is. I'm a complete convert to precision cut gems from now on!

 

[chrono]

A good cut is definitely important but as always, make your decision based on other factors as well. I would not limit my choices to only precision cut stones. I've seen beautifully precision cut stones with crappy colour and very well cut non-precision stones with incredible colour.