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d13

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
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8
Looking at the following options to use as a center stone in an engagement ring for my GF. The setting I plan to get is an 18k yellow gold solitaire setting. Which of the options below is the best deal? Mind ranking the top 3-4? Thanks so much!

$7500: 5.4 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/J-VVS2-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41559293

$7955: 1.6 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....Cut-Round-Diamond/D41190357?&refer=pricescope

$8192: 1.8 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....gn=201806&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

$7921: 4.4 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/J-VS1-Round-Diamond/D41569136

$7518: 4.9 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.60-ct-J-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41769182

$7955: 4.1 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.60-ct-J-VS1-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41680713

$8446: 1.4 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.61-ct-J-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41823383
 
Forget the ones with HCA >2.

Have you seen J color diamonds? They do have a tint which is more pronounced if you're sensitive to it. They can also be beautiful. Is the SI1 eye-clean?

You need images that assess light performance, idealscope and ASET. I don't see those on the links provided.
 
I’ve seen some in person and think they look good to me. I haven’t seen any of these in person, unfortunately. Where would I get the idealscope and Aset images?

I can see some inclusions in the SI1 in the picture provided but unsure if those would be apparent in person. Dealing with a tight budget and timeline—only providing Adiamor links b/c my gf is really set on one of their settings.
 
Not speaking about this specific diamond, as that would violate forum rules.

I will say though that the pictures you are seeing are magnified for your ease in seeing the inclusions. With the unaided eye it is rare for a true SI1 to be visible from the top, which is how diamonds are graded.

Wink
 
Understood. I guess I’m just struggling with how much weight to place on hca scores. I’d just learned about it in the last few days so I’m still trying to figure out what it means vs just focusing on the 4cs.
 
So the HCA tool is all about the most important C....cut!

It takes the information from the GIA report and uses an algorithm to estimate how a stone MAY perform based on the crown angle, pavilion angle, table and depth. Generally speaking, you will get favorable results with a score of 2 or less. But it's not guaranteed. The HCA is just an elimination tool so you can weed out the good from the bad.

There are some shortcomings. First, GIA reports averages of data and is more relaxed in that reporting than AGS. Depending how the averages are reported, it could make a diamond look better or worse than it really is. And unlike AGS certificates, GIA does not currently produce a cut score. In the case of AGS, they use an advanced 3D modeling system to scan and measure the specific diamond and can accurately determine the cut of a stone. Consequently, you will see many ideal and super ideal stones with AGS certifications.

As such, you don't run AGS graded stones through the HCA. The reasoning is simple. The cut grade assigned by AGS is based on diamond specific information obtained from complex 3D modeling and is superior to the results we gain from GIA graded stones using HCA as that information is based on "generic" 2D algorithm's that just get us "close".

For GIA graded stones, the HCA is a great place to start but it's not the end all. Rather AGS or GIA graded, you still need to look at videos and various images to really determine how well or poorly cut a stone really is.
 
The HCA tool is a coarse filter tool. Its used to exclude those GIA Excellent diamonds that have uncomplimentary angles that will likely lead to light leakage (i.e., poor performance). So, we recommend you exclude all diamond that have a HCA over 2.0. Then, look at what is left. At that point, there is still work to do. The IS or ASET is used to look at the actual light return of those that are still in the running. Many vendors provide those upon request, some post them on their website, and a few won't provide them at all. I can't recall if Adaimor will provide IS or ASET. JA will provide up to 3 IS images. B2C and Enchanted Diamonds are a mixed bag. Blue Nile won't provide them. WF, BGD, HPD, VC all provide on their website.

Sometimes the HCA is tough on certain diamonds that might actually be ok. PS member will note that for you.

EXCLUDE ALL THESE
$7500: 5.4 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/J-VVS2-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41559293
$7921: 4.4 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/J-VS1-Round-Diamond/D41569136
$7518: 4.9 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.60-ct-J-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41769182
$7955: 4.1 Hca https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.60-ct-J-VS1-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41680713


$7955: https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....Cut-Round-Diamond/D41190357?&refer=pricescope {grade setting and additional clouds in an SI1 likely to be an issue. I'd exclude from this vendor unless their gemologist can assure you that the clouds won't impact performance. Me? I'd exclude.}

$8192: https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....gn=201806&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc
{This is a 60/60 style diamond which will have more white light than fire. But the low CA of 33 will further dampen that fire. I'd eliminate}

$8446: https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.61-ct-J-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41823383 {this would not be clean enough for me. Lots of clouds and visible crystals. I'd eliminate}

Before you get too bummed out that I've suggested eliminating most of your choices (:cry2:), hang tight. I have to go make dinner, but either myself or another PS member will chime in with some to pursue.
 
Looks like @rockysalamander and I posted very close to one another. She is the diamond whisperer, so listen to her and she will guide you right. Trust me on this.

That said, I'm sure you are feeling a little deflated after getting everything rejected. No fears, I have 4 good choices for you to consider. Two are ACA's cream of the crop H&A. The other two are expert selection which is near perfect. All J's and VS clarity. Size is a little smaller than the 1.6ct I think you were aiming for, but don't be discouraged. You have to look at the L x W mm dimensions and you will see there is very negligible difference in a 1.4 and 1.6. A few of these creep almost to 1.5ct. All are in the $8,700 to $9,200 range using wire payments.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3970293,3983289,3916959,3965470

I'm running tight on time, but will see if I can find more for you later as well. I'm sure others will chime in with some good alternates soon.
 
d13 said:
Understood. I guess I’m just struggling with how much weight to place on hca scores. I’d just learned about it in the last few days so I’m still trying to figure out what it means vs just focusing on the 4cs.
Click to expand...

You have received some good advice here, under 2.0 is worth looking further, but not selected until further research has been done.

As for the 4 C's. Professionals can not distinguish between IF and VS2 and often SI1 and even SI2 without a loupe. (Or looking through the sides for the SI stones, which is not how they are graded.)

Professionals will often have a hard time definitively judging a color without looking through the sides against a white background.

Poorly cut diamonds will look smaller than a well cut diamond of lesser weight. Even though the heavier poorly cut diamond may measure larger, it can look smaller when the two are side by side.

My advice, do not focus on the 4 c's. Focus on the CUT. Then arrange to see the diamonds with YOUR eyes to see what YOU like.

Wink
 
Echoing Wink, focus on the cut. That is the one thing I wish I knew about when shopping for my first diamond. It is THE factor to consider!! It’s totally changed my perspective on evaluating diamonds.
 
And by cut, that's tied to the HCA score not just the grade given by GIA, correct?
 
So hitting the sizes you were finding for less well-cut stones is tough. I'm sticking to a top budget of $9000. Many of these are below. But, I know you probably set and expectation of size from the other stones. So, hang there us and trust that if we can find you a well-cut stone that is larger -- we will post it.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5107220 {nice angles, really clean. Tiny black inclusion on the table, but this will be clean to the eye. Ask for an IS}

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5088157 {It this has a good IS, I like this one. But I'd eliminate without an IS}

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.54-ct-J-VS1-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41655425 {nice angles. Would love an IS or ASET, not sure if Adiamor provides them}

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-j-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-4836357 {AGS, great angles and really nice. One tiny inclusion that you will never see. Still want an IS}

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4798887 {pretty and clean.}

James Allen will provide you up to 3 IS images for those they have. Unless you want us to look over $9k, I'd put your favorite 3 from JA on hold and request IS images. From Adiamor, go ahead on put that on hold and then see if they will share an ASET. Then, post them all here.

But, do look carefully at the WF options. They are TOTL cut and have all the images posted.

https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-53ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-j-vs2
This is a real antique diamond. It lovely and floral. If your girl is into antiques or vintage, a diamond like this might make her heart sing. It has great spread and specs. Click on the "Video" tab and you'll see the difference between this lovely old girl and a modern round.
 
rockysalamander said:
So hitting the sizes you were finding for less well-cut stones is tough. I'm sticking to a top budget of $9000. Many of these are below. But, I know you probably set and expectation of size from the other stones. So, hang there us and trust that if we can find you a well-cut stone that is larger -- we will post it.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5107220 {nice angles, really clean. Tiny black inclusion on the table, but this will be clean to the eye. Ask for an IS}

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5088157 {It this has a good IS, I like this one. But I'd eliminate without an IS}

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.54-ct-J-VS1-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41655425 {nice angles. Would love an IS or ASET, not sure if Adiamor provides them}

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-j-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-4836357 {AGS, great angles and really nice. One tiny inclusion that you will never see. Still want an IS}

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4798887 {pretty and clean.}

James Allen will provide you up to 3 IS images for those they have. Unless you want us to look over $9k, I'd put your favorite 3 from JA on hold and request IS images. From Adiamor, go ahead on put that on hold and then see if they will share an ASET. Then, post them all here.

But, do look carefully at the WF options. They are TOTL cut and have all the images posted.

https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-53ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-j-vs2
This is a real antique diamond. It lovely and floral. If your girl is into antiques or vintage, a diamond like this might make her heart sing. It has great spread and specs. Click on the "Video" tab and you'll see the difference between this lovely old girl and a modern round.
Click to expand...


thanks for all these options! Some of the James Allen ones are quite nice but I was hoping to stick to Adiamor b/c they have a setting that my GF is obsessed with and I don't see one thats remotely similar elsewhere. Were there any other diamonds on Adiamor that caught your eye for sub 9K or just that one?
 
Can you link to the setting?

(will look at your choices tomorrow...trying to get my kiddo to sleep}
 
Love the design, but that shank at 1.5 mm is too thin, especially for a cast setting (vs. hand-forged or die-struck). Pave must be at least 1.8 mm and I prefer 2.0 mm.

No worries though...that is an easy setting to replicate. David Klass has made its twin. Victor Canera and Maytal Hannah are great hand forgers. DK is usually a great option for budget.

David Klass. https://www.instagram.com/davidklassjewelry/?hl=en
Victor Canera. https://www.instagram.com/victorcanera/?hl=en {you have to ask if he'll work with diamonds you supply. I can't recall}
Maytal Hannah. https://www.instagram.com/maytalhannah/?hl=en
 
rockysalamander said:
Love the design, but that shank at 1.5 mm is too thin, especially for a cast setting (vs. hand-forged or die-struck). Pave must be at least 1.8 mm and I prefer 2.0 mm.

No worries though...that is an easy setting to replicate. David Klass has made its twin. Victor Canera and Maytal Hannah are great hand forgers. DK is usually a great option for budget.

David Klass. https://www.instagram.com/davidklassjewelry/?hl=en
Victor Canera. https://www.instagram.com/victorcanera/?hl=en {you have to ask if he'll work with diamonds you supply. I can't recall}
Maytal Hannah. https://www.instagram.com/maytalhannah/?hl=en
Click to expand...
:( the thinness/daintiness of it was what she liked the most
 
Thin and dainty only sounds good. But this is a ring to be worn every day in all manner of activities. You need more metal to avoid the ring warping, bending and losing diamonds.

From Adiamor, I like this one the best relative to angles.
https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.54-ct-J-VS1-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41655425

Has your girl seen GIA graded stones in person relative to color? I find most can start to see color at an I color (from the side). A J should have visible color from the side for most under average light conditions. What has your girl said were her wants/priorities? Does she want size above all else? Is she in an artistic field?
 
rockysalamander said:
Thin and dainty only sounds good. But this is a ring to be worn every day in all manner of activities. You need more metal to avoid the ring warping, bending and losing diamonds.

From Adiamor, I like this one the best relative to angles.
https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.54-ct-J-VS1-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D41655425

Has your girl seen GIA graded stones in person relative to color? I find most can start to see color at an I color (from the side). A J should have visible color from the side for most under average light conditions. What has your girl said were her wants/priorities? Does she want size above all else? Is she in an artistic field?
Click to expand...

Rocky is giving you excellent advice regarding the setting and color of the diamond. Regarding the setting, 1.5mm is much too thin for pave. 1.8mm is the absolute minimum for pave, but I agree that 2mm is much safer, and the absolute thinnest I would go, for pave.

Have you seen 1.5mm vs 2mm shanks in person? The reason I'm asking is because most people have a distorted idea of just how thin various shank thicknesses appear. IMO, videos and pictures of settings make the shanks appear much thicker than they appear in real life. A 2mm shank will still look quite dainty IRL, and will ensure that you're not losing pave stones left and right (which can be quite annoying if your ring is constantly at the jewelers for repair).

For the color, I agree that Js can be beautiful, but color is definitely a personal thing. If this is a surprise and you don't know the recipient's (your GF's) color sensitivity, then H is personally the lowest I would recommend going in a diamond this size. As @rockysalamander said, most can start to see color from the side in I color and below, and whether or not your GF could see this, and whether it would bother her, is something I would not want to leave to chance.
 
Ah, never mind, I just saw that you're going to set the diamond in yellow gold In that case, I think the J color will be perfect. Color doesn't really matter as much in yellow gold settings.

As for the settings though, I would check into these instead of the one you posted:
https://www.adiamor.com/Engagement-Rings/Pave/Pave-Cathedral-Engagement-Ring/18KYellowGold/1432
https://www.adiamor.com/Engagement-Rings/Pave/Pave-Setting-for-Round-Diamond/18KYellowGold/1404
https://www.adiamor.com/Engagement-...ave-Engagement-Setting-2mm/18KYellowGold/1770

Same design as the one you were considering, but there are 2-2.1mm as opposed to 1.5mm. With a diamond over 1.5 carats, 2mm will still be plenty dainty, but will be much more secure. This is particularly important since you want 18K gold, as 18K gold is softer than 14K gold and thus more prone to bending and/or warping.
 
TreeScientist said:
Ah, never mind, I just saw that you're going to set the diamond in yellow gold In that case, I think the J color will be perfect. Color doesn't really matter as much in yellow gold settings.

As for the settings though, I would check into these instead of the one you posted:
https://www.adiamor.com/Engagement-Rings/Pave/Pave-Cathedral-Engagement-Ring/18KYellowGold/1432
https://www.adiamor.com/Engagement-Rings/Pave/Pave-Setting-for-Round-Diamond/18KYellowGold/1404
https://www.adiamor.com/Engagement-...ave-Engagement-Setting-2mm/18KYellowGold/1770

Same design as the one you were considering, but there are 2-2.1mm as opposed to 1.5mm. With a diamond over 1.5 carats, 2mm will still be plenty dainty but will be much more secure. This is particularly important since you want 18K gold, as 18K gold is softer than 14K gold and thus more prone to bending and/or warping.
Click to expand...
This only is true to a point. Being in yellow gold makes the contrast between a diamond with yellow body color and the yellow gold less visible. This helps reduce the ability to see the contrast, which most can detect. But, a color acute observer will still see body color. Color acuity is not contingent on seeing contrast but the ability to see absolute color, at least as I use the term. Even non-color acute can see the color contrast. Color acuity is about hue and therefore shades within a color range.

@d13 I'm not suggesting you should abandon a J color. I'm asking you to consider your girl and her color acuity and preferences. This is especially true as the range of hues within a J is so much numerous than higher colors. I personally love warmer diamonds and have down in the lower quarter of the alphabet in my vintage pieces.
 
d13 said:
https://www.adiamor.com/Engagement-...-Setting-Diamonds-3-4-down/18KYellowGold/1694

thank you!
Click to expand...

Between the stones @rockysalamander and myself posted as alternates, I think you have some good choices. If you go the JA route, I really really like the J VS1 with the AGS cert. I also like the Adiamor stone but I would agree I'd like to see IS and ASET images.

By the way, here is a link to the GIA cert on the Adiamor stone:
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2286727303&s=1529597360491

I didn't see a price listed on the Adiamor stone. It says "call for availability" on my screen. Maybe @d13 put on hold already? Anyhow, I think the JA stone I referenced above is very well priced assuming the images check out.

Still I think this needs to be considered -- the WF stones I posted have less carat weight, but when looking at the dimensions of the stone, they are measuring nearly the same as these other two stones with more carat weight. And while I think both the JA and Adiamor stones are great, for just a little more you can get an ACA branded super ideal. Kind of comes down to budget & preference I think.

If I were you, right now I'd be making sure you know where your girl is with color sensitivity. If you need to go up in color, then this changes things drastically. I took a look earlier and it appears to be about $1,000 more for H/I colored stones around the 1.3-1.4ct size.

Also I can see your attraction to the Adiamor setting. It is beautiful. However, you always have to consider structural integrity of whatever you are dealing with in life. I am sensitive to this myself because my career field has meant life/death situations if the integrity isn't there.

But let me take that seriousness out of the matter and give you some reference points:

1.5mm = 0.0591 inches
2.0mm = 0.0787 inches
1/16 inch = 0.0625 inches (or 1.588mm)

0.0787 inches - 0.0591 inches = 0.0196 inches
1/64 inch = 0.0156 inches
1/51 inch = 0.0196 inches

So the ring in question is only 1/16th inch wide. And perhaps your eyes are much, much better than mine but I'm telling you that I would struggle to see 1/51th of an inch of difference unless I was zoomed in and had a comparison piece. Passing by and showing off a ring, to the naked human eye they are essentially the same IMO.

To be safe, go with the minimum 1.8mm for structural integrity and even less difference. And then I'd have DK custom make the setting for you which frees you up to the buy the stone from wherever. I am using DK for my own custom setting now and can say they are great to work with and very reasonable pricing. I would be surprised if he's not the same or less than Adiamor's price and with top quality to boot.
 
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