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Need Community input on the indecisiveness

J

JackJ27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
18
I am guilty of lurking, but i had to register and comment on the beautiful Victorian ring Niel posted, and now I want this gabriel victorian ring for my engagement ring, hopefully the have size 8. My budget is 10k for a 1.5ct eyeclean diamond, I am torn between H and G color? Then i found this 1.50 Carat Round diamond I Color VS2 Clarity has Excellent proportions on james allen, for 10k. It is very eyeclean, what to do?? Any Suggestions, headed to diamond district this afternoon! I am willing to go over my budget of 10k by 2kmax, but is it worth it for g or h color? I know HCA is very important, but going from g to i for a 2.5 and below HCA diamond worth it? Also Is IDJ reputable....Torn.... Word Vomit... Picture of engagement ring I want and the I color 1.5ct vs2

Thanks

J

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Please post the diamond proportions. table, depth and crown angle. Also, please put the diamond on hold. then link us to it.
 
IDJ is reputable. I have happily bought from them myself. :wavey:
 
I will look for diamonds for you later.
 
Thanks! I"ll look into this this morning.
 
Gypsy, thank you for taking your time, past weekend was eye opening;) I went to a broker referred by family member, looked at several stones. I was torn between a 1.51ct, H, SI2, 3X, Flur-none. Hca came back 1.1, here is a pic of gia report-h_0.jpg.

I am willing to post what i was quoted, if you could post what would you pay for this stone?

After reading your on feathers and crystal thread. The broker and i had a disagreement because i could feel the crystal and it was not eye clean, if i looked at it carefully. His opinion was it was eye clean and could be hidden under my 4 prong solitaire setting. I wasn't impressed with SI2 and said try to get some Vs2-SI1 stones. He said in his 30 years of experience he has seen GIA rating fluctuate since it is human grading.

The other option was a 1.54ct, F, SI1, 3x, Flur-none, Hca came back 1.4, here is a pic- f_1.jpg.

I am willing to post what i was quoted, if you could post what would you pay for this stone?
The price on F was $3,200 more than the H, to me the F wasn't worth it. As a compromise i was thinking of looking for 1.5ct, G, Vs2-Si1,3x,Flu.medium-none? Should this cause the price to increase too much? I have a budget of $10,500, I am willing to increase it by 2k in hope of a better diamond without a feather,needle and crystal, because those inclusions left such a bad taste in my mouth?

The broker suggested he could find a better deal, price per carat, if he could go do down in carat by .03, I am hesitant because her finger size is 8.5, and i could tell a difference in size from 1.50 and 1.54 ct stones i looked at. Also according to this pic rbc.jpg
a Round Brilliant Cut to ring ratio, 1.5ct gives me 43%, opinions?

Also i came upon this post about diamond.pro, which i actually used and they recommended the diamond in my first post;)

Last but not least, Thank You Gypsy! very helpful! The diamonds you suggested on enchanted diamonds are great! On the H color diamond, i chatted with echanteddiamonds and the response was the supplier doesn't provide it, but could you explain the price difference? Is it because of the crystal, feathers, needles inclusion and strong blue fluorescence on the F color?

Here is the actual link to james allen diamond suggested by diamond.pro in my first post.

Dying to hear opinions!

J
 
Okay. I'm sorry. I'm at work, and while I read through that could you please simiplify your questions for me in just 1, 2, 3 bullet points?

This stone is a dud: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-425135?a_aid=dmnd1357 the 36/41 angle combo is a bad one for performance.

Just tell me what you need, want from me briefly. ;))

Here's what you need to know about MRB:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want? Well first you want to stick to stones that have a crown angle of 34 (33.5 okay for 60/60 style stones) and over, a pavilion angle of 41 and under, and no deeper than 62.5
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.
 
Thanks Rocky, that looks like a great buy, i'll give them a ring.
 
Lol, I am at work also, when i get home in a few, i'll post all my questions;)

Thanks
 
JackJ27|1423697204|3831066 said:
Thanks Rocky, that looks like a great buy, i'll give them a ring.
Click to expand...

One thing to note - Good Old Gold is a Gabriel & Co vendor, so they would probably be able to source the setting, so you can get the whole ring done at one place, and not have to deal with shipping / insurance / issues during setting.

If there are any issues down the line (unlikely, but always good to be prepared), only one vendor is responsible for putting the ring together.
 
That was a great read, thanks for taking time to put that together!


1. The 1.51ct,H,SI2,3x i mentioned in the last post, was available for purchase from my broker for $10,117, price per carat of $6700. It had a feather,needle,crystal that i felt was on surface and not eyeclean. Therefore, i am searching for a G color, 1.5ct, VS1-SI1, Excellent-cut,symmetry,polish, Flur-medium-none or AGS0 under $11,500k.

2. Where can i purchase a used(cheaper) idealscope and loupe?

3. The diamonds you suggested on enchanted diamonds are great! On the H color diamond, i chatted with echanteddiamonds and the response was the supplier doesn't provide idealscope, but could you explain the price difference between H and F? Is it because of the crystal, feathers, needles inclusion and strong blue fluorescence on the F color?


Thanks. If i think anything, i'll post it;)

J
 
Hi J-
Perhaps I am suggesting a wrong stone for you and if so please disregard my post. I too have larger fingers and if given the choice would go down a touch in color to get a little more area on the hand.
This is about 1,700 over budget but I do think it is nice.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3172004.htm

The stone RockyRacoon suggested from Good Old Gold is nice as well & in budget
 
Hi Jack

I had the same problem as you looking for a diamond. 10k budget so what I did was compare some stones with different sizes, colours and cut.

G, H beside each other hard to tell the difference as long as a D does not come into the equation. Where I was really blown away was a smaller well cut diamond Ideal (0) looked larger than a diamond with more CT weight that was not an Ideal (0) cut. So in the end went for a smaller diamond that looked amazing.

Found this one.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=996

Looking through my notes I found what criteria I used to search for diamonds. I copied this from a someone website but forgot which site.

Table: 53-57%
Total Depth: 60 – 61.5%
Crown Angle (CA): 34 – 35 degrees
Pavilion Angle: 40-41 degrees

Good luck.
 
Simon, 16ocean,

Thank yall for the suggestion, usually i go for quality in everything i buy, so i am leaning towards a G and instead of H, AGS0 if possible. I'll have to keep in mind simons and gypsy's criteria on diamonds. I'll read up on it tonight some-more. Carry on, love logging on and seeing all these suggestions;)) Is $6780 per caret for a 1.5 G color, Si1 clarity, too good of a price to aim for?

Thanks

J
 
simon123|1423756845|3831351 said:
Looking through my notes I found what criteria I used to search for diamonds. I copied this from a someone website but forgot which site.

Table: 53-57%
Total Depth: 60 – 61.5%
Crown Angle (CA): 34 – 35 degrees
Pavilion Angle: 40-41 degrees

Good luck.
Click to expand...

No. This is WAY WAY WAY too restrictive.

You will knock out a ton of diamonds that are fantastic.

Total depth is fine up to 62.4
Table is fine up to 60
Crown angle just needs to be over 33.5 (for a 60/60) or 34 for a Tolk. And it needs to compliment pavilion angle (that is the key and what the HCA checks for you).
Pavilion angle needs to be 41 and under and compliment the crown angle (again this is key).
 
I will tell you that I communicated with Garry (HCA creator) very recently and he said he recommended no more than 59 for table on stones over a carat. I try to stick with 60-62 on depth, personally, because greater depth can cost you in diameter.

Soooo, for a pretty safe zone in case you want numerous guidelines ;)) :

table: 54-58 (maybe 59)

depth: 60-62 (up to 62.3)

crown angle: 34-35

pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0

Good point from Rocky that Good Old Gold carries Gabriel and Co, so I would consider calling them and seeing if they can call in a couple of stones for you to see (video, photos) if they don't have exactly what you want on their site. So much easier getting stone and setting from the same place.
 
JackJ27|1424020805|3832989 said:
Thanks for the criteria, I'll give goodolgold a ring tommrow. What is your opinion on this stone, personally i think it is priced a tad bit too high.
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Round/GIA-Certified-1-52-Carat-H-Color-VS2-Clarity-Diamond-GU6GNE
Click to expand...
My gut reaction is that it's fairly priced, but did you use the PS Diamond Search feature, looking for very comparable stones and then crunching the HCA scores, etc. to reach the conclusion that it's priced higher than you think it should be?

GOG may be willing to give you a discount off the MSRP for the Gabriel & Co. semi-mount if you purchase the complete ring from them.
 
JackJ27|1424020805|3832989 said:
Thanks for the criteria, I'll give goodolgold a ring tommrow. What is your opinion on this stone, personally i think it is priced a tad bit too high.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Round/GIA-Certified-1-52-Carat-H-Color-VS2-Clarity-Diamond-GU6GNE
Click to expand...


ED is usually the cheapest online retailer from my experience, on average 9-11% price difference, and also you get a small pricescope discount if you go to that stone through the PS search.
 
diamondseeker2006|1423794485|3831666 said:
I will tell you that I communicated with Garry (HCA creator) very recently and he said he recommended no more than 59 for table on stones over a carat. I try to stick with 60-62 on depth, personally, because greater depth can cost you in diameter.

Soooo, for a pretty safe zone in case you want numerous guidelines ;)) :

table: 54-58 (maybe 59)

depth: 60-62 (up to 62.3)

crown angle: 34-35

pavilion angle: 40.6-41.0

Good point from Rocky that Good Old Gold carries Gabriel and Co, so I would consider calling them and seeing if they can call in a couple of stones for you to see (video, photos) if they don't have exactly what you want on their site. So much easier getting stone and setting from the same place.
Click to expand...

I will say that stones in a depth or 62.0- 62.4 I find to be slightly less expensive. Meaning typically the .05 or so ct more you can afford make up for the diameter difference.

I find that I prefer stones in that range, so I have noticed this is often the case.
 
lxAsTrOxl|1424036363|3833096 said:
JackJ27|1424020805|3832989 said:
Thanks for the criteria, I'll give goodolgold a ring tommrow. What is your opinion on this stone, personally i think it is priced a tad bit too high.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Round/GIA-Certified-1-52-Carat-H-Color-VS2-Clarity-Diamond-GU6GNE
Click to expand...


ED is usually the cheapest online retailer from my experience, on average 9-11% price difference, and also you get a small pricescope discount if you go to that stone through the PS search.
Click to expand...

I do find ED to have nice prices, though I haven't purchased though them. However, there is something to be said about getting everything from the same place. You won't pay for shipping the stone one place or another, won't pay for a setting fee I'd their is one, don't have to worry about insurance while set.

Has anyone looked at Idjewelry? Like gypsy said they are reputable, usually cheaper than good old gold, and sell gabriel and co.
 
Niel, that is very interesting about the depth, i'll have to keep an eye out;) Today, looked at a few more more I color, SI1 and SI2 diamonds, i am just not comfortable or haven't found the "one" stone, so many needles and feathers :(. I am going to call idj and enchanted tomorrow and keeping my fingers crossed:) Getting tireeeeed of this search, needle in a haystack! Thank yall for taking the time to comment, one of these diamonds has to be good.

J
 
JackJ27|1424053371|3833219 said:
Niel, that is very interesting about the depth, i'll have to keep an eye out;) Today, looked at a few more more I color, SI1 and SI2 diamonds, i am just not comfortable or haven't found the "one" stone, so many needles and feathers :(. I am going to call idj and enchanted tomorrow and keeping my fingers crossed:) Getting tireeeeed of this search, needle in a haystack! Thank yall for taking the time to comment, one of these diamonds has to be good.

J
Click to expand...

Looked at them in person or on the internet?

ETA:
I wanted to make a comment about your GFs finger size. I wear a 7.5 and on my left hand I wear a .8ct round. It is not longer run a solitaire but it was at one point. Don't get hung up on that chart you posted. Its more than just finger coverage % that will make the ring size seem "appropriate". Where I live, regardless of finger size, you would be hard pressed to find someone wearing much over a ct,and usually ita half CTS people sport. In other parts of the country you are expected to have larger diamonds. I think ita nice you want it to have a lot of presence on the hand, but I think as long as you hit, or come close to, her expectations of what size, you'll be fine.
 
As much as she loves the victorian style rings, i feel a simple four prong white gold setting is better to show the 1.5ct diamond off?

Sharleen Joynt, rose gold...


sharleen.jpg


The more i look at it , more i love it...
 
JackJ27|1424054041|3833226 said:
As much as she loves the victorian style rings, i feel a simple four prong white gold setting is better to show the 1.5ct diamond off?

Sharleen Joynt, rose gold...


sharleen.jpg


The more i look at it , more i love it...
Click to expand...

Which does she prefer?
 
Looks like PS removed my last post there was a great link to NiceIce about Si diamonds and make sure there are eye clean, that's why two diamonds same spec can have a good price difference. Nothing wrong with I / Si.
 
simon123|1424086839|3833330 said:
Looks like PS removed my last post there was a great link to NiceIce about Si diamonds and make sure there are eye clean, that's why two diamonds same spec can have a good price difference. Nothing wrong with I / Si.
Click to expand...

Wanted to clarify what Simon is introducing here...

SI1 (assuming its eye clean which the overwhelming majority are) vs VS2 - is about rarity not (naked eye) beauty. The overwhelming majority of SI1 diamonds dont have inclusions that detract from light performance or beauty.
 
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