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Need advice on AGS vs GIA

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Upgrading_finally

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2003
Messages
23
I am looking into getting a:

1.15 - 1.25 round
Ideal cut
AGS preferred
G/H
SI1
Faint Flor okay

Do you all think I can get this stone for around $5500?

TIA
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
You can definitely get a stone within your parameters for around that pricing. I ran a quick Pscope search and it found over 60 records of stones that are 1.15-1.25c G/H VS2/SI1 with AGS 0 ratings (Ideal Cut, Ideal Symm, Ideal Polish) and there were a bunch in the $5500-6000 range (mostly 1.15-1.18c G VS2/SI1s and 1.20 H/VS2 and 1.24 H/SI1). This does not mean that there are 64 stones, since many vendors have access to the same stones, but there is a good amount out there.

Keep in mind that when you say 'Ideal' cut, that is just a brand name that someone can slap on a stone to make it sell for more $$. If you are looking for an AGS 0 stone, that is something you can easily search on, BUT it does not mean that all stones in the AGS 0 range are going to be beautiful stones. The AGS 0 range is very large. and far from foolproof.

If you are looking at stones online, would suggest you request the vendor send you enlarged pictures of the stones and IdealScope images so that you can gauge the light return of the stones and see where the leakage is of any serious contenders. Also, run the crown and pav angles through the HCA and see what sort of scores the stones you are considering get (under 2.0 is excellent). Using these tools can help you narrow down the AGS 0 range stones to find the ones that really 'shine'.

Good luck!!
 

Upgrading_finally

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2003
Messages
23
Thanks! I always thought that if I ask for an Ideal stone with AGS cert, I'm sure to get the best stone. But I sure will ask for the specifics!
 

optimized

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
306
Hi Tia,

I think you should certainly be able to find a very nice diamond within those specs for the price you mentioned. I don't have the time to do a major search right at the moment, but I'd recommend you check out the Pricescope diamond search engine, as well as some of the fine retailers who frequent the boards.

that appears to be quite reasonably priced:

Product: 1652 VertCert: 1180451

Cert: GIA

Price: $5,643.00

Cut: Super Ideal

Color: H Clarity: SI1

Carat Weight: 1.1

Ever-so-slightly smaller than your criteria, but right around your budget. The BScope looks extremely good on it, and although the inclusions are under the table the high-res photos don't show anything (although I DO wish SC would post some dark-field photos for stones like these). Probably well worth checking out while you're searching...

-Tim
[/u][/u]
 

Upgrading_finally

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2003
Messages
23
Thanks Tim. I'm actually looking for the look of 1.25, but thinking that I want to pay for the price of an 1.15 only! So I think 1.15 would be the smallest I would go.

Another question, what do the measurements on the stones mean? Does that translate into the % of crown and pavilion?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Sans MS" size="2">Measurements mean the following...for the most part!
Sorry that was a bit of a ramble but you get the idea! Use the measurements to help you weed out horribly cut stones (e.g. too deep or too shallow), then continue to get the specs on the ones you are considering to finalize the choices.

Good luck!!
 

Upgrading_finally

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2003
Messages
23
Can I use the measurements that I get and pluck them into HCA?

What measurements should a perfectly cut stone have?

Thanks.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
No the HCA operates by using the following data: crown angle, pavilion angle, culet, table % and total depth %.

Some stones you look at will not have the crown and pav angle, ask for a Sarin report which will have the info. OR if you are looking at stones with an AGS cert, the certification will have the angles. GIA does not have angles on its certificates. EGL has the crown and pav percentages which are not as accurate as the angles, but will work in a pinch. Keep in mind, if you are looking at EGL stones, be sure its EGL USA as they are more reputable on grading, and then still get it checked out.

There is no one set of measurements for a perfectly cut stone in a carat weight...there are always ranges. You can determine a general range for a well cut stone by searching on A Cut Above, SuperbCert, or Hearts and Arrows stones which are usually pretty well cut, and look in your carat range to find a good indicator of a range of where an excellent cut stone's dimensions should be. But using the measurements is not an exact science, but rather to help you weed out bad stones with obvious depth problems and/or too large crowns. Don't stifle yourself by just looking at a specific range of measurements...but use it as a filter.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Check out these:


Whiteflash.com:

Item Code AGS-3490609
Price US$ $6,520.00
Certification AGS-3490609
Shape A Cut Above H&A
Carat 1.153
Color H
Clarity SI1
Measurements (mm) 6.82-6.83 x 4.12
Table % 55
Depth % 60.3
Crown Angle ° 34.9
Crown % 15.4
Pavilion Angle ° 40.8
Pavilion % 42.9
Polish Ideal
Symmetry Ideal
Girdle 0.9%-1.5% Thin to Medium Facet
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Inert
(this one is slightly over your budget, though)
________________________
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=11-1-2245
________________________
http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/gia11665893/index.htm

Giangi
 

Upgrading_finally

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2003
Messages
23
Thanks for all the advise.

So should I spring the extra $$ for an AGS stone vs GIA? I know they cost more and now I'm thinking that it's the stats of the diamond that is more important then who graded it.

And what do you all think about buying on Ashford or Diamond.com vs the other sites? I have still very afraid of making such a big purchase online and I have a friend who's purchased on Ashford, so I know they are trustworthy.

Thanks!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
AGS and GIA are both highly reputable grading labs, you should be fine with either and I would not limit your search to just AGS or just GIA. Any diamonds graded by either should be fine. The only difference that sometimes may lead people to target AGS stones is that they give the crown and pav angles of the stone which then lets you use tools such as the HCA and lets some of the residents on here post DiamCalc images of what your stone could look like with light return, etc. With a GIA cert and no Sarin information, you cannot get that extra info.

My comments on Ashford.Com, BlueNile.Com, Diamond.Com as the top three most well known sites for buying diamonds on the web...you will pay more for their marketing and branding and it will not necessarily net you a better stone. Sites such as WhiteFlash.Com, SuperbCert.Com, GoodOldGold.Com, DiamondOptics.Com, DiamondWholesale.CC, AffordableDiamonds.Com, BuyDiamondsDirect.Com etc etc are just as reputable as the ones you mentioned, possibly slightly less well-known but with usually excellent customer service and people who really want to help you get the best possible stone for your budget. My experience with BN, and D.Com etc is that the people working their customer service and email and phones etc are not the *most* knowledgeable about stones as they could be...the other sites definitely have a leg up on that in my mind.

Many of the sites I listed have excellent feedback on this forum from past customers...I would check them out, run a Pricescope search, check out Giangi's stones (all nice!), and then when you are close to purchasing, post your stone and choice of vendor on this forum and ask for feedback. People will generally be pretty honest on here with their thoughts. Also run a search on the vendor you are planning to use and read positive and negative posts to make your decision!
Be sure there is a return policy also..and get the stone double checked when it arrives from an independent appraiser.

Good luck!!
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Hi Finally!
And, Welcome to the Forum!


Chiming in on measurements along the same line as Mara. You said you wanted a 1.25 carat but felt like you would "have to settle" for a 1.15 carat. You can actually get the look without the price premium for hitting the mark. And, why pay for the weight when you can get the look.

Ideal cuts have larger diameter/weight ratio than non-ideals, typically. Mara's and other larger table/shallow depth are the exceptions. Mara's diamond is spectacular! And, there are others out there like hers. Most people have Maul store diamonds that loose diameter to weight in depth (below the girdle, hehe) that no one sees.

An extremely well CUT, lower carat weight will have the same or larger physical diameter and larger visual presence. I have a .766 carat super ideal H&A with a 6 mm diameter. It is .15 mm larger than a .9 carat diamond that was posted on the forum last week. Sounds small on paper, but is visually larger in real life.

And, CUT is the key to fire, sparkle, light return, and the colors of the rainbow. The WOW factor! It doesn't just sit on your finger, it grabs people's eye! A great CUT, even if the carat weight is lower, can have the same physical diameter of a heavier weight and speak volumes in performance.
 

optimized

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
306
Surprised to see this old thread from February dredged up again. Wonder how Pepito found this one! LOL!

Did we ever find out what happened with Upgrading's search?

-Tim
 
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