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thinkorswim

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Matthews1127

Matthews1127

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thinkorswim said:
Hi everyone!

I'm an intermittent lurker, first time poster here. Been searching for a high quality round diamond to set in a classic 6-prong solitaire setting. I have found these three stones, just not sure which one would be best:

1.5, F, VS2 https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09403941

1.42, F, VVS2 https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09419300

1.4, E, VS2 https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08964811

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you!
Click to expand...
According to BN, none of these are available. Do you have all 3 on hold, or have they sold?
 
Matthews1127

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These are the HCA Tool rankings of each of the above stones. Your range should be between 1-2.
I am skeptical of any report that does not include a photo or video of the actual diamond. Sample photos are a waste. Knowing whether or not any inclusions are eye clean is of importance. You should request video on those without, and ASET & IS reports on each (most vendors have a 3 ASET limit). Get as much info as you possibly can on each diamond before making your decision. Remember: a beautifully cut stone of lesser carat weight can appear larger because of its cut. You must determine measurements for spread, if size is a priority; a well cut stone with excellent spread will make up for what carat weight it lacks.
Just ensure any inclusions are eye clean, and there is no cloudiness in the stone.
All 3 have potential.

https://bnsec.bluenile.com/bnsecure/certs/LD09403941/GIA?country=USA&language=en-us

IMG_7947.PNG

https://bnsec.bluenile.com/bnsecure/certs/LD09419300/GIA?country=USA&language=en-us
IMG_7948.PNG

https://bnsec.bluenile.com/bnsecure/certs/LD08964811/GIA?country=USA&language=en-us
IMG_7949.PNG
 
Matthews1127

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...and this one. Both alternatives I found are G color with medium to strong Fluorescence. You have to decide if you are willing to drop to a G, and if you care for any fluorescence; more tinted stones tend to face up more white with Fluorescence, but you must make certain the fluorescence doesn't cause the stone to appear cloudy or oily...
From the videos, neither seems impacted by fluorescence...

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09276574
IMG_7951.PNG
 
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thinkorswim

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Matthews1127 said:
I am guessing on your budget, based upon what you posted above, and I found this diamond for comparison:

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09332662
IMG_7950.PNG
Click to expand...

Thank you for the help!

I do like the 1.55 you recommended. I don't have much experience, but it seems going down to G and coming up to VVS2 is very similar to an E and VS2 (the 1.4 carat one). Do you think the medium fluorescence is an issue with G diamonds? Isn't that still a relatively high color where you would like to keep fluorescence to a minimum?
 
rockysalamander

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Fluorescence in a colors H and lower, can be a good thing as it can raises the perception of the color (provided it is not making the stone milky/oily, which is relatively rare and usually with strong or very strong). In G and above, the blue does not really whiten the stone and medium flour is rarely an issue, but anything with strong or very strong and high color should be reviewed by a gemologist for the rarely occurring milkiness/oily/haziness. But, I love fluorescence!
 
Matthews1127

Matthews1127

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thinkorswim said:
Thank you for the help!

I do like the 1.55 you recommended. I don't have much experience, but it seems going down to G and coming up to VVS2 is very similar to an E and VS2 (the 1.4 carat one). Do you think the medium fluorescence is an issue with G diamonds? Isn't that still a relatively high color where you would like to keep fluorescence to a minimum?
Click to expand...
I do not believe the medium fluorescence will present an issue in the G; I devoted much consideration before I made the suggestion. I* believe Cut & Clarity are priorities, when selecting a diamond, especially, if inclusions are questionable regarding eye cleanliness. I found a ton of other diamonds fitting your specs, but very few passed the HCA Tool test, and failed my eye clean preferences; inclusions visible against the table, and under the table were eliminated immediately. The 1.55 Ct G VVS gives you so much more for your money, and I believe you will be far more pleased with its performance. The spread is great, and will be beautiful, IMHO.
I hope you will consider that diamond, and ask BN for more info, before you eliminate it, based upon medium fluorescence. I sincerely believe it is your best option from BN... :mrgreen2:
 
rockysalamander

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Is this the only vendor you can work with?

For such a good budget, I'm really not loving any of the stones (maybe an ASET would change my mind). I would eliminate your #2 (1.42 F VVS2) and @Matthews1127 #2 (1.6 G VVS2). The 1.5 F (your #1) has the best potential (request ASET and H&A, I'd like a clearer view of the arrow at 2'oclock). The 1.4 E VS2 (yours) and 1.55 G VVS2 (recommended) both have a 58% table which paired with the low crown angle will tend to make the stone look flat on top. The crown angles are lower than those typically recommended for non-precision stones, although a review of the AGS tables suggest they could quality for AGS Excellent/Ideal. So, I'd be on the fence with these two. Maybe another PS'er can comment.

If you are open to other vendors:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3858592.htm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3267933 {excellent number, IS looks good AGS0)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...arat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-762218 {excellent number, IS great, AGS0 -- but review inclusions at 11'oclock on table edge and girdle. This will be eye-clean, but maybe not "mind clean")
 
Matthews1127

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rockysalamander said:
Is this the only vendor you can work with?

For such a good budget, I'm really not loving any of the stones (maybe an ASET would change my mind). I would eliminate your #2 (1.42 F VVS2) and @Matthews1127 #2 (1.6 G VVS2). The 1.5 F (your #1) has the best potential (request ASET and H&A,I think the arrow at 2'ocloke). The 1.4 E VS2 (yours) and 1.55 G VVS2 (recommended) both have a 58% table which paired with the low crown angle will tend to make the stone look flat on top. The crown angles are lower than those typically recommended for non-precision stones, although a review of the AGS tables suggest they could quality for AGS Excellent/Ideal. So, I'd be on the fence with these two. Maybe another PS'er can comment.

If you are open to other vendors:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3858592.htm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3267933 {excellent number, IS looks good AGS0)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...arat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-762218 {excellent number, IS great, AGS0 -- but review inclusions at 11'oclock on table edge and girdle. This will be eye-clean, but maybe not "mind clean")
Click to expand...

I happen to agree; BN limited my selection GREATLY. NONE were available with AGS certs, so I toiled over each GIA report....
If you are open to other vendors, I am certain your options will bear more fruit....
 
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thinkorswim

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Matthews1127 said:
I do not believe the medium fluorescence will present an issue in the G; I devoted much consideration before I made the suggestion. I* believe Cut & Clarity are priorities, when selecting a diamond, especially, if inclusions are questionable regarding eye cleanliness. I found a ton of other diamonds fitting your specs, but very few passed the HCA Tool test, and failed my eye clean preferences; inclusions visible against the table, and under the table were eliminated immediately. The 1.55 Ct G VVS gives you so much more for your money, and I believe you will be far more pleased with its performance. The spread is great, and will be beautiful, IMHO.
I hope you will consider that diamond, and ask BN for more info, before you eliminate it, based upon medium fluorescence. I sincerely believe it is your best option from BN... :mrgreen2:
Click to expand...

Thank you for all your help! I really apreciate it.

I will contact BN today regarding the 1.55 Ct diamond and request ASET and IS reports for both that stone and the 1.4. I think it'll be between those two, just need to eliminate one. Thanks again!
 
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thinkorswim

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rockysalamander said:
Is this the only vendor you can work with?

For such a good budget, I'm really not loving any of the stones (maybe an ASET would change my mind). I would eliminate your #2 (1.42 F VVS2) and @Matthews1127 #2 (1.6 G VVS2). The 1.5 F (your #1) has the best potential (request ASET and H&A, I'd like a clearer view of the arrow at 2'oclock). The 1.4 E VS2 (yours) and 1.55 G VVS2 (recommended) both have a 58% table which paired with the low crown angle will tend to make the stone look flat on top. The crown angles are lower than those typically recommended for non-precision stones, although a review of the AGS tables suggest they could quality for AGS Excellent/Ideal. So, I'd be on the fence with these two. Maybe another PS'er can comment.

If you are open to other vendors:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3858592.htm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3267933 {excellent number, IS looks good AGS0)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...arat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-762218 {excellent number, IS great, AGS0 -- but review inclusions at 11'oclock on table edge and girdle. This will be eye-clean, but maybe not "mind clean")
Click to expand...

Thank you for your help!

Not super set on BN, but they seem to have the most reasonable prices if you dig around enough. I was concerned about the low crown angle on the 1.4 E VS2, but when I plug the numbers into the HCA tool (linked above by Matthews), it seems that these stones have excellent light return, fire and scintillation. Doesn't this mean that the low crown angle won't be much of an issue? I just assumed it would make the round diamond appear a little larger when set.
 
GearGirly

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As far as fluorescence it is a personal choice, but I put it on the top of my list for wants when I'm looking at a diamond. I think it makes them just that much prettier, and much much better looking in sunshine. The milky issue is so rare it's almost impossible. I want a stone with such strong fluorescence that it goes milky and I can't find one.
 
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thinkorswim

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rockysalamander said:
Is this the only vendor you can work with?

For such a good budget, I'm really not loving any of the stones (maybe an ASET would change my mind). I would eliminate your #2 (1.42 F VVS2) and @Matthews1127 #2 (1.6 G VVS2). The 1.5 F (your #1) has the best potential (request ASET and H&A, I'd like a clearer view of the arrow at 2'oclock). The 1.4 E VS2 (yours) and 1.55 G VVS2 (recommended) both have a 58% table which paired with the low crown angle will tend to make the stone look flat on top. The crown angles are lower than those typically recommended for non-precision stones, although a review of the AGS tables suggest they could quality for AGS Excellent/Ideal. So, I'd be on the fence with these two. Maybe another PS'er can comment.

If you are open to other vendors:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3858592.htm

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3267933 {excellent number, IS looks good AGS0)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...arat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-762218 {excellent number, IS great, AGS0 -- but review inclusions at 11'oclock on table edge and girdle. This will be eye-clean, but maybe not "mind clean")
Click to expand...

What are your thoughts on this one:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...e-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3061289
 
Matthews1127

Matthews1127

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thinkorswim

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Matthews1127 said:
It passes the HCA Tool test...
IMG_7968.PNG
However, the inclusions are against the table, and directly under the table. That would drive me* crazy!! Clear inclusions, or not, I cannot believe I* would not notice most, if not all, within 8-6" from my head. This was the dynamic I was trying to escape, while searching for you, yesterday....
Click to expand...

Yeah the inclusions under the table are definitely not ideal. But they seem to be small at 20X magnification, so I'd imagine it's eye clean and wouldn't bother my fiancee or I (both novices). The cut on this one seems to be superior to the BN ones though (more ideal table, depth and crown angle). Also, JA will provide and IS report for this diamond, while BN couldn't give me any for the prior ones discussed.

As an aside, the GIA report is dated over a year ago. Is this an issue? Does this mean the stone has been used before or has it been laying around in stock this whole time for some reason? Would it be worthwhile to request a recerfication?
 
rockysalamander

rockysalamander

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Can you give us your budget and 'wants'. Are you based in the US or abroad? What kind of setting do you have in mind?

I notice you are picking very high color stones. Is that because you have looked at stones and your are you intended are color sensitive? Is this cultural? Do you feel they are safer colors? No judgement, just trying to understand.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3294645 {AGS0. The numbers are lovely. Would still need IS to review (and JA will only allow three such request from one email).

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...e-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3161766 {GIAXXX. good numbers, a TIC stone which is very brilliant, less firey)

Here are criteria many of us use for initial selection for non-super ideal or precision cut round stones.
table - 54-58%
depth 60-62.3%
crown 34-35 degrees
pavilion 40.6 - 41 degrees
Certified by GIAXXX or AGS0 (HRD often ok)

The HCA tool that is being used is an elimination tool that just tells you if the angles are complimentary. Work still to be done once you get the right angles and they compliment (keeping in mind many will use
 
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thinkorswim

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rockysalamander said:
Can you give us your budget and 'wants'. Are you based in the US or abroad? What kind of setting do you have in mind?

I notice you are picking very high color stones. Is that because you have looked at stones and your are you intended are color sensitive? Is this cultural? Do you feel they are safer colors? No judgement, just trying to understand.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3294645 {AGS0. The numbers are lovely. Would still need IS to review (and JA will only allow three such request from one email).

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...e-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3161766 {GIAXXX. good numbers, a TIC stone which is very brilliant, less firey)

Here are criteria many of us use for initial selection for non-super ideal or precision cut round stones.
table - 54-58%
depth 60-62.3%
crown 34-35 degrees
pavilion 40.6 - 41 degrees
Certified by GIAXXX or AGS0 (HRD often ok)

The HCA tool that is being used is an elimination tool that just tells you if the angles are complimentary. Work still to be done once you get the right angles and they compliment (keeping in mind many will use
Click to expand...

Heh I suppose this would be easier if you guys could read my mind. My apologies!

I have looked at a lot of stones and would like to find something that fits the following:
- Budget is $14,000 including setting
- Would like a RB around 1.4 to 1.5 ct (not really looking to go a lot larger than that)
- Don't need super high clarity, just someting well cut and eye clean, so I have been using VS2 as a cut off (don't really want to wade through all the SI2 stones to find an eye clean one)
- I tend to be a little more color sensitive when I looked at stones, so I would like something in the D-F range, but can come down to G for the right stone
- Setting is going to be solitaire six prong (https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...solitaire-engagement-ring-six-prong-item-7994 or similar from BN) and I'm not sure how table and crown angle will affect this look

Sorry for being such a pain here. Just want to make sure I get the best one within my budget. Thank you again for your help!!
 
rockysalamander

rockysalamander

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#3. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...arat-f-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-872701
(photo is a bit dark if you look at the background color compared to the others, but its got awesome numbers; AGS0 1.31 F VS2; the clear inclusion under the table is smaller than punctuation on a page and even the clarity-hog I am would not find it problematic)

Previously recommended
#1. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3294645 {AGS0. The numbers are lovely. Would still need IS to review (and JA will only allow three such request from one email).

#2. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...e-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3161766 {GIAXXX. good numbers, a TIC stone which is very brilliant, less firey) -- I WOULD ELIMINATE IN FAVOR OF #2 AND #3.

If you've looked at stones, these are TOTL relative to performance (akin to Hearts on Fire). These are refereed to as "super-ideal' and are precision cut with perfect hearts & arrows. They will have lovely performance, but cost a bit more per carat. The nice thing is that these have proven performance with the IS and ASET to show their performance.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3858592.htm {top of budget with basic setting}
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3864672.htm {in budget with setting}
 
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