Natural round for review

[RareBird]

Hi,

I just joined the forum but have been lurking for awhile. I’ve been on the hunt pretty hard. I’ve been looking for a super ideal cut but I just came across this thing and was wondering what you guys think. Price difference is pretty significant considering the specs compared to a similar super ideal. It scored 0.8 on the hca.

 

[musicloveranthony]

The symmetry is absolutely fantastic. There's something going on with the angles, though that is creating issues with dead zones/facets under the table. I also wonder if there is some painting/digging of the girdle areas

 

[DejaWiz]

Hello and welcome to PriceScope, @RareBird !

Found some other potential candidates for you to have a look at in JA's inventory:

2.14 Carat round diamond

This 2.14 carat round diamond H color vs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

2.20 Carat round diamond

This 2.2 carat round diamond I color vvs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

You're in 2+ carats ACA territory, which will get you an MRB/RBC with pinnacle optical performance and the best of the best upgrade program:

Round Cut Diamonds: Discover Our Brilliant Selection

Peruse our wide variety of Round Cut Diamonds. Choose your ideal gem combining quality, price, in stock and available to ship immediately.

www.whiteflash.com

...have a very close look at that J VS1 2.358

 

[lovedogs]

I agree that the original stone posted has some issues and likely isn't a great choice. Definitelt consider a super ideal cut!

 

[RareBird]

Thanks for the responses. Funny, I was actually checking out all those diamonds already. There’s another J 2.336 on whiteflash I thought looked real nice. Just a little worried about the color. I’m going for a platinum setting. I’m sure this has probably been discussed a lot but I’m wondering how significant of a difference is it from a super ideal to a JA diamond with nice specs? JA already rubbed me the wrong way on a Mother’s Day order I placed so I’m not really trying to use them for the e-ring unless the diamond/price on there is too good to pass up. Seems like you do get a lot for your money. Any input highly appreciated. Awesome forum!

 

[DejaWiz]

Thanks for the responses. Funny, I was actually checking out all those diamonds already. There’s another J 2.336 on whiteflash I thought looked real nice. Just a little worried about the color. I’m going for a platinum setting. I’m sure this has probably been discussed a lot but I’m wondering how significant of a difference is it from a super ideal to a JA diamond with nice specs? JA already rubbed me the wrong way on a Mother’s Day order I placed so I’m not really trying to use them for the e-ring unless the diamond/price on there is too good to pass up. Seems like you do get a lot for your money. Any input highly appreciated. Awesome forum!

What you are guaranteed with a true SIC is all 57-58 facets are *custom* cut with the highest degree of precision and alignment that is humanly attainable which means that as much light as possible that enters the diamond will be properly reflected back out to the viewer's eyes. The ideal proportions and angles add as much sparkle, scintillation, and fire as can also be attained.
This goes well beyond the rather broad allowance that GIA grants for their "Excellent" cut grade.
Think of GIA Excellent as the entire dart board and true SIC is the small bullseye in the middle, simply put.

A CUT ABOVE® Diamonds Specifications and Qualifications

Uncover the diamond specifications and qualifications that make up the Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® diamonds. The most carefully crafted diamonds in the world.

www.whiteflash.com

 

[sledge]

Some of the right answer boils down to your mindset. Some people are focused on “good enough” cut that allows them to maximize the other 3 C’s as they see fit, with carat (size) normally being the driver.

WF ACA’s and other super ideals are focused on simply providing the ultimate cut quality which focuses on a tight set of proportions and symmetrical alignment. The extra labor to craft a stone of this caliber along with a higher rough waste factor often means stones of similar size, color and clarity have a slightly higher price tag.

I’m a believer in best value. I also believe super ideals pack a strong punch in that regards. My opinion is the entire purpose of buying a diamond is for the beauty of the cut. The most fire and light return is what makes the diamond world go round. When you get the cut right, everyone that sees it is impressed.

The other benefit with super ideals and especially WF ACA’s is their generous trade policy. You can trade as you wish as long as you get a stone of equal or higher dollar value. No other red tape or restrictions. Compared with JA who requires you spend 2X the original purchase amount (EACH time you upgrade) and you can see how this adds future value. If you get savvy with your trades this can be a very powerful benefit to help buy a “today stone” that is gorgeous while you work your way to the “dream stone of tomorrow”.

 

[lovedogs]

Some of the right answer boils down to your mindset. Some people are focused on “good enough” cut that allows them to maximize the other 3 C’s as they see fit, with carat (size) normally being the driver.

WF ACA’s and other super ideals are focused on simply providing the ultimate cut quality which focuses on a tight set of proportions and symmetrical alignment. The extra labor to craft a stone of this caliber along with a higher rough waste factor often means stones of similar size, color and clarity have a slightly higher price tag.

I’m a believer in best value. I also believe super ideals pack a strong punch in that regards. My opinion is the entire purpose of buying a diamond is for the beauty of the cut. The most fire and light return is what makes the diamond world go round. When you get the cut right, everyone that sees it is impressed.

The other benefit with super ideals and especially WF ACA’s is their generous trade policy. You can trade as you wish as long as you get a stone of equal or higher dollar value. No other red tape or restrictions. Compared with JA who requires you spend 2X the original purchase amount (EACH time you upgrade) and you can see how this adds future value. If you get savvy with your trades this can be a very powerful benefit to help buy a “today stone” that is gorgeous while you work your way to the “dream stone of tomorrow”.

I agree. Evrtyone is different, so we can't speak to whether the differences that you (OP) see between stones will be significant or not. I can say that super ideal cut diamonds are great, and definitely look livelier to me than even well proportioned GIA XXX stones (I assume due to GIA rounding vs the tight parameters that super ideal cuts are held to)

 

[RareBird]

Thanks for the responses guys. I’m looking pretty hard the ACA lineup. I definitely want to prioritize cut above everything else. My main hurdle being color. I’m sure this gets brought up a lot. I’m in the HIJ color range. I’ve read that there is a very minimal difference between the 3 but the price jumps seem to say otherwise. I’m wondering if any of you guys have personally went with an I or a J over an H and how do you feel about it now. I am aiming for 2ct+ for a platinum solitaire setting.

 

[sledge]

Color is very subjective. And women are typically more sensitive (able to see color) than men. The best way to know is to go look at diamonds in person. Try to find the best cut stone in near same size as you plan to purchase and look at them in various lighting. Also knowing HER color preference is key.

Well cut stones like super ideals don’t show a lot of difference in the face up position. This is because they have superb light return. However, if you flip them face down and expose the body/pavilion (which is how color is graded) then you will more easily see the tint differences.

Also color has “range” and as you go further down the color scale the range increases. Meaning a D has very little range. And the H has more range than the D but less than a J. And a K would have more range than a J. And so on and so on.

Consequently you may hear terms like a “high J” which would mean almost an I, or perhaps a “low J” which would mean almost a K. Or maybe it’s just a run of the road in the middle J color.

As you may be gathering, color can be quite nuanced and depends so much on the individual and their preferences. I bought my wife an H/VS2 from BGD. We can see some minor tint but it passes as “white”. However, we would not personally go below this and mainly because we both see color easily and we both prefer icy white.

With that said, many others dislike icy white and prefer a little warmth. Seeing tint isn’t necessarily bad. It depends on your opinion of tint. The marketplace has determined less tint is better and more costly so prices do jump around based on color. However, if you don’t mind tint this can really work to your favor.

WF will pull individual stones upon request and take photos and videos side by side to help you with this decision. Perhaps choosing one of each color would be a good idea and then make the request.

If you happen to be bothered by the color, you have some built in protection with the trade policy. You can use that policy to trade up in color which may mean throwing a few extra dollars at when you have the cash flow so all the other C’s stay the same. Or perhaps you go a smidge smaller (and/or decrease clarity) and increase color instead while keeping dollars about the same.

Some more info to help you.

 

[RareBird]

I actually inquired to WF already and they were very helpful. They pulled a few stones for me but it didn’t really help me because I can’t see much of a difference in the colors. I’m actually buying as a surprise so I can’t really include my girlfriends opinion. I do know that in general she is a lot more observative then me and tends to notice things more easily. Not sure if that relates down to colors but probably. I also think she would be a happy with any diamond though. I’m trying to get this right on the first try because I really doubt she will ever want to use the trade in program. We do have a pretty unique situation. She wears a size 10 ring so size is pretty important. I played around with the hand simulator thing and the diamonds really shrink up as soon as I change the ring size to 10. I’ll attach a photo of the 3 diamonds I’ve been looking at. All ACA’s Lmk what you guys think. Tyty.

 

[lovedogs]

I actually inquired to WF already and they were very helpful. They pulled a few stones for me but it didn’t really help me because I can’t see much of a difference in the colors. I’m actually buying as a surprise so I can’t really include my girlfriends opinion. I do know that in general she is a lot more observative then me and tends to notice things more easily. Not sure if that relates down to colors but probably. I also think she would be a happy with any diamond though. I’m trying to get this right on the first try because I really doubt she will ever want to use the trade in program. We do have a pretty unique situation. She wears a size 10 ring so size is pretty important. I played around with the hand simulator thing and the diamonds really shrink up as soon as I change the ring size to 10. I’ll attach a photo of the 3 diamonds I’ve been looking at. All ACA’s Lmk what you guys think. Tyty.

If it were me, I'd get the biggest possible stone, especially since I can't see the difference in color from the hand pic they sent. But if you want to be a bit "safer" with color then I'd get the I color

 

[RareBird]

I pretty much feel the same way. When I first contacted them I told them I was looking for the biggest eye clean H for my budget. The one they have listed is a little under my budget so that’s why I started looking at the other options. If the H SI1 was a little bigger I could consider it a little more. Now, it’s pretty much the I or J and I’m like if I get the I, I might as well get the J but am I a little safer with the I? Maybe. Tough decision regardless. Thanks for your input. I appreciate it

 

[momofive]

I'm wondering if your soon to be fiance would be able to tell the difference if it was not face down and next to other higher color stones. Why don't you ask them to pull some high J's. Just to compare. And have them place the stones side by side and upside down (in addition to looking at them face up), to see the difference.

 

[sledge]

All factors considered I’d lean towards the J. You get more finger coverage.

Larger stone = larger facets = chunkier fire!

Also in the face up position there is no noticeable tint to make me question if it’s white enough. However, as I said before, you need a face down profile to really gauge it properly. I’d ask WF to take the same 3 stones and photograph in a face down position.

Keep in mind it’s hard for most people to discern 1-2 color grades. Factor in ranges I mentioned earlier and the lines could get very blurry.

I took the WF example pic above and cropped to H/I/J only. See what I mean? It’s not that you can’t see tint but it becomes harder when you isolate to 3 color grades.

That is the type of view you need with the 3 stones in question to better gauge color.

I still think the J is your horse. Videos and images look good btw. I took a peek. Now go put all 3 stones on reserve while you decide so someone doesn’t “snipe” them from you.

 

[RareBird]

I’m close. I do like the J. I’m comparing a few other options still. There’s another I they got that’s a little bigger then the one in the pic but seems to have a little more clarity issues. I like the cleanliness of the I and J In the pics. I’m a little worried about putting one of these in a platinum setting. I see mixed reviews on this saying it can help or it can hurt the color. If I did, I would aim for one of those settings that kinda cover up the side views. Like a tulip style or similar. Appreciate the responses guys!

 

[DejaWiz]

Also keep in mind that if you do decide on a J ACA and then your future spouse decides it has a bit too much warmth, then you're 100% price protected with their upgrade program that only requires you to select an in-stock diamond of equal or higher price (there may also be misc fees for resetting, etc, but that's to be expected).

 

[sledge]

I’m close. I do like the J. I’m comparing a few other options still. There’s another I they got that’s a little bigger then the one in the pic but seems to have a little more clarity issues. I like the cleanliness of the I and J In the pics. I’m a little worried about putting one of these in a platinum setting. I see mixed reviews on this saying it can help or it can hurt the color. If I did, I would aim for one of those settings that kinda cover up the side views. Like a tulip style or similar. Appreciate the responses guys!

I think I saw the one you're talking about. It's the 2.52 J/SI1 Expert Select. It's got a cluster of crystals on the outside edge of the table, some of them are black. I suspect that's why it says "inquire" under the Eye Clean section of the WF page. While I'm not against SI1 clarity to help boost your bang for the buck, I wouldn't get a stone that isn't 100% eye clean.

Also, I don't see a HUGE size difference. Yes, it sounds better at 2.50 carats but look at the dimensions -- it's roughly 8.75mm average vs the 2.33 stone that is 8.57mm average. That's about a 0.18mm difference, which is hitting right at the average spot (0.20mm) where most folks can start to discern a small/tiny difference when the stones are side-by-side. It's not going to be one of those "OMG, it's so much bigger" situations. When not side-by-side, the difference won't even be memorable.

If you want to gain a hair larger and stay within $500 of max budget (assuming you use wire price) then this 2.45 J/SI1 might scratch that itch. It's 8.66mm average. Again, not massive but closes the gap on the 2.52 and is a much cleaner SI1.

Diamond | 2.451 ct J SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4501710

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.451 carat J color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4501710

www.whiteflash.com

My biggest rub with the 2.45 and 2.52 stones is they look more tinted to me than the 2.33 -- all are J's. Notice how they compare against this 2.376 I/SI1. To me, the 2.33 almost looks like an I in the face up position.

Diamond | 2.376 ct I SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4443707

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.376 carat I color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4443707

www.whiteflash.com

And for comparison, that 2.376 I/SI1.

 

[RareBird]

Yeah I was thinking that dejawiz. We’re not married to the stone. Got options with wf if necessary. I like that.

 

[RareBird]

Here’s the other stone sledge I was looking at. It’s an I VS2 in my range. Seems like it has a lot going on with the paperwork. Little worried about the cavity.

Diamond | 2.141 ct I VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4558469

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.141 carat I color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4558469

www.whiteflash.com

 

[RareBird]

Yeah I see what your talking about with the 2.33 too. I wasn’t sure if those face up pics were good judges of color but that thing does look pretty white in the image. One of the reasons I put that specific J on the list. Might be an upper J!

 

[Slickk]

If it were me, I'd get the biggest possible stone, especially since I can't see the difference in color from the hand pic they sent. But if you want to be a bit "safer" with color then I'd get the I color

This! ^ I have a J in platinum (albeit a Lab grown) but I’m one who cannot really see color. I love your choices.

 

[sledge]

Here’s the other stone sledge I was looking at. It’s an I VS2 in my range. Seems like it has a lot going on with the paperwork. Little worried about the cavity.

Diamond | 2.141 ct I VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4558469

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.141 carat I color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4558469

www.whiteflash.com

Structurally I think the stone is fine. It's VS2 clarity and the cavity is listed as the 4th (least impactful) inclusion on the clarity plot. Also, you have a reputable vendor that can and will scrutinize the stone on your behalf.

That said, I just do no like cavities and would likely only consider if it offered a unique advantage. This is my preference and doesn't mean the stone is bad. Sort of like I will buy a sublime green sports car, but not everyone will because they don't like the color.

Edited to Add:

 

[sledge]

Yeah I see what your talking about with the 2.33 too. I wasn’t sure if those face up pics were good judges of color but that thing does look pretty white in the image. One of the reasons I put that specific J on the list. Might be an upper J!

I agree the face up views may not be the most optimal method of picking color. Getting a face down, pavilion/body picture like I posted upstream is what you need to better assess the color difference between these stones.

If you reach out to WF and advise which stones you'd like to see, they will do a side by side comparison pic and videos to help you make the call. Also, your rep should be able to render an opinion.

 

[DejaWiz]

Yeah I see what your talking about with the 2.33 too. I wasn’t sure if those face up pics were good judges of color but that thing does look pretty white in the image. One of the reasons I put that specific J on the list. Might be an upper J!

Secure it...ask them to put it on hold/reserve.
I think it's an amazing choice for the color and clarity.

 

[breanne]

I’m close. I do like the J. I’m comparing a few other options still. There’s another I they got that’s a little bigger then the one in the pic but seems to have a little more clarity issues. I like the cleanliness of the I and J In the pics. I’m a little worried about putting one of these in a platinum setting. I see mixed reviews on this saying it can help or it can hurt the color. If I did, I would aim for one of those settings that kinda cover up the side views. Like a tulip style or similar. Appreciate the responses guys!

I had a J color in platinum, and when I say platinum, it was a 3.2mm... so that's a lot of metal to contrast. I got ENDLESS compliments because the cut was so much better than anything else around, which in turn made it just look bright white. That is the difference after spending sometime on this site, you *will* have a stone that performs better than most. It's not just an I/J color that you got at a brick and mortar, keep that in mind!

 

[RareBird]

I had a J color in platinum, and when I say platinum, it was a 3.2mm... so that's a lot of metal to contrast. I got ENDLESS compliments because the cut was so much better than anything else around, which in turn made it just look bright white. That is the difference after spending sometime on this site, you *will* have a stone that performs better than most. It's not just an I/J color that you got at a brick and mortar, keep that in mind!

Good to hear! Yeah I was kinda thinking the super ideal cut overrides any hint of color. Definitely looks like it from the photos they sent me. I think I’m gonna ask for a couple close ups and try to make a decision pretty soon I appreciate y’all’s feed back for real!

 

[sledge]

Good to hear! Yeah I was kinda thinking the super ideal cut overrides any hint of color. Definitely looks like it from the photos they sent me. I think I’m gonna ask for a couple close ups and try to make a decision pretty soon I appreciate y’all’s feed back for real!

Super ideals will not magically make color/tint disappear. However in the face up position they are well cut and consequently have maximum light return which helps mask the tint.

However, to keep beating that dead horse — color/tint is viewed in the pavilion or body. When you flip it face down and look at it from that POV the cut won’t mask it the same way. That’s why it’s crucial to see those views, especially when you are on the edge with color.

As you mentioned earlier, you can use a basket or other type setting where the stone sits lower and is more covered with metal. Less body will make it harder to see the tint.

 

[lovedogs]

Super ideals will not magically make color/tint disappear. However in the face up position they are well cut and consequently have maximum light return which helps mask the tint.

However, to keep beating that dead horse — color/tint is viewed in the pavilion or body. When you flip it face down and look at it from that POV the cut won’t mask it the same way. That’s why it’s crucial to see those views, especially when you are on the edge with color.

As you mentioned earlier, you can use a basket or other type setting where the stone sits lower and is more covered with metal. Less body will make it harder to see the tint.

This is definitely important. The tint will still exist, but is often "hidden" by the edge to edge brightness/sparkle, especially from the face up view. But seeing it from the side (or having a setting that covers the side) is important if you (or the reciever) is color sensitive

 

[DejaWiz]

Secure it...ask them to put it on hold/reserve.
I think it's an amazing choice for the color and clarity.

At least get it in your hands as a loose diamond so that you can assess it for yourself. If you love what you see, then send it back to work on getting the setting completed. If not, then you still send it back and choose an alternative.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.