Natural Diamonds - New Campaign - Good timing or too little too late?

[newtojewels]

This is me! I have my lab in a gorgeous EW setting. We could have went the natural route, especially with the lower prices these days. However we are also in the throes of private school tuition, 529 plans, kids activities etc. it feels more prudent to keep more money in the bank right now.


However, with that said, I would not be opposed when our expenses are not-so-high in the future swapping out the lab stone with a natural stone. When it comes to handing down a piece of jewelry to the next generation, I do prefer natural. Again, a fan of both.

At the end of the day jewelry should be for the wearer no matter what anyone else thinks. I know some may see my ring as costume because it has a lab and that’s ok. But it’s special to me and I enjoy wearing it.

And it's gorgeous! Did you get the Grace or Margot or something else? Any more photos anywhere?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

This is me! I have my lab in a gorgeous EW setting. We could have went the natural route, especially with the lower prices these days. However we are also in the throes of private school tuition, 529 plans, kids activities etc. it feels more prudent to keep more money in the bank right now.


However, with that said, I would not be opposed when our expenses are not-so-high in the future swapping out the lab stone with a natural stone. When it comes to handing down a piece of jewelry to the next generation, I do prefer natural. Again, a fan of both.

At the end of the day jewelry should be for the wearer no matter what anyone else thinks. I know some may see my ring as costume because it has a lab and that’s ok. But it’s special to me and I enjoy wearing it.

Your ring is not costume. Your ring contains a diamond. Whether natural or synthetic, you have a diamond!

 

[purplesilk]

The Real Truth About Lab Grown Diamonds

Lab-grown diamonds are reshaping the jewelry landscape, but how do they compare to natural gems? Discover the facts and uncover the truth behind these modern creations.

www.diamondcuttersintl.com

We’ve seen the synthetic game before. Synthetic diamonds have been around far longer than lab grown diamonds have been available to the public. Synthetics are just manufactured substances. There are diamond simulants too, which are stones that look similar to what they’re mimicking, but don’t have the same chemical properties, like white sapphire, cubic zirconia, moissanite, and topaz. They all have their place.
Our advice is if you don’t care about having a real, no-kidding, rare, beautiful, valuable diamond on your fiancé’s hand, and you just want large bling, save yourself even more money than you would on a lab-grown stone and buy her a synthetic cubic zirconia. A well-cut CZ can look optically quite similar to a diamond, too, and is far more realistic than a strangely over-colorful moissanite, for example, but most people don’t want a CZ as a symbol of their love. And if you’re one of the people that doesn’t want a CZ and you want to buy a diamond, then we’re back to what makes a diamond, well, a diamond.
First, let’s discuss natural diamonds. You know, the real thing that anything else is trying to approximate. Planet Earth grows these little miracles in a rather Goldilocks fashion. They typically grow between 90 and 140 miles under the surface of the Earth, where the temperature and pressure is just right.
There, little carbon atoms must link electrons and form strong covalent bonds to survive what almost nothing else can – for about 1-3 billion years. Then, after becoming a gemstone, the little rock of cosmic kismet has to find its way through the crust via dangerous kimberlite and lamproite pipes of volcanic materials to end up close enough to the surface of the earth to be dug up in a mine or to catch the current of a river where it ends up in an alluvial deposit. The statistical chances of that incredibly sparkly little juggernaut of perseverance ending up on your hand after its multi-billion year journey through our planet is pretty impressive.
Now let’s talk about the lab grown processes out there. First, let’s give scientists credit where credit is due. This was tough stuff to figure out. In 1954, Dr. Tracy Hall succeeded in creating the first lab grown diamond – which was pretty ugly and suitable only for industrial use. That’s what lab grown diamonds were originally designed to be: drill bit heads, surgical tools, heat sinks. Not engagement rings.
But nowadays here are the two process used to create consumer-grade synthetic diamonds in just a few weeks:
HPHT – High Temperature High Pressure. Seed crystals are placed in a chamber, subjected to high temperatures and high pressures, and expand outwards.
CVD - Chemical Vapor Deposition. Seed crystals are placed in a vacuum, where clouds of carbon rich gasses are released and build up in layers.
Lab-grown diamonds and earth-mined diamonds are chemically the same, yes. They’re both made from carbon. The carbon in a multimillion dollar diamond tiara is identical to the carbon in a ten cent pencil, too. The crystal structure is what makes the difference.
So how does the carbon grow? While the majority of diamonds have nitrogen in them as well, which is why there is a color-grade that denotes the degree of yellowness in a diamond (which is caused by nitrogen in the lattice structure of the stone), they’re mostly carbon. But the atomic lattice structure of the carbon inside the two is not the same. You can tell that by simply looking at the shape of the rough diamonds – earth mined vs. lab-grown. The shape of a crystal is based on the atomic structure of the unit cell of the material as it grows. As we’ve noted, CVD lab-grown diamonds grow in sheets, while HPHT diamonds grow outwards from a seed. Natural diamonds grow in beautiful octahedral crystals. Factory-made crystals cannot grow in a machine to be the same shape as they grow in the earth. Mother nature has magic that humans haven’t harnessed yet.

Why is the shape of the atomic structure important? After all, we cut them and don’t see the shape of the rough often.

Full-term rough, that is, diamonds that the earth took at least a billion years to grow, are filled with resonance cavities that a few weeks in a lab can’t recreate.​

Resonance cavities are like echo chambers for light instead of sound. Think of the Grand Canyon. If you holler into it, the shape of the canyon carries and amplifies your voice. The atomic structure of full-term rough is filled with countless micro-versions of the Grand Canyon that capture and amplify light.
Full term rough isn’t the only type of natural diamond rough. The most common type of rough doesn’t make it to a billion years before it’s ejected out of the Earth’s crust.

Cheap macle or flats, basically the 200 million year old premature rough, doesn’t amplify the light as well because the resonance chambers aren’t as developed and/or deformations occurred during growth, and therefore they don’t sparkle as much.
Many well-meaning retail sales people don’t know the difference between macle or flat rough and full term rough (also called sawables or makeables) and will look at you funny if you mention this. 98% of the diamonds sold in the United States are cut from macle or flat rough, so most of them have never really seen the good stuff. We are spoiled at a cutting house, where we see full term rough all day long, but a jeweler or sales professional not knowing that a difference in rough shape and type even exists is a massive red flag.
We’ll leave this here for you, from GIA’s own Diamond Grading manual:
“In the gem-quality category, the shape of a rough diamond crystal is the most important factor in its potential value as a gemstone.”3
In layman’s terms: better ingredients, better pizza.

Photo Credit: GIA​

Can we test the difference between a natural diamond and a lab-grown diamond? Yes. Absolutely.​

Google questions like “Are lab grown diamonds real?” and “Can your jeweler tell if a diamond is lab created or natural?” and the answers you get are terrifying. So much gaslighting has come from those who sell lab grown stones, it’s shameful.
The jewelers and gemologists writing articles on the internet that say that natural diamonds and lab grown stones are identical need to go back to school. The Gemological Institute of America has said that while lab grown diamonds and natural diamonds are often quite similar and need specialized equipment to tell them apart, they are not identical.4
Lab-grown diamonds don’t have the same spectral signature as natural, earth-mined stones, even if the industry runs around shouting about optical sameness. Difference in optical response is one of the ways gemologists distinguish between the stones. A gemologist uses machines that shine lights at the stone, to see how it responds.
One test used is fluorescence. UV light doesn’t behave the same way inside a lab-grown crystal. Lab growns typically fluoresce the opposite way under short and long term UV waves than an earth-mined diamond, and some exhibit unnatural cross-shaped fluorescent patterns and even abnormal phosphorescence that would be highly unlikely to appear in a real diamond grown by Mother Nature.

Both by Eric Welch/GIA. Natural and synthetic diamonds typically react differently to LWUV and SWUV. Under LWUV (left), the loose natural diamond fluoresces, but the synthetic diamaond in the ring doesn't. Under SWUV (right), the natural diamond doesn't fluoresce but the synthetic diamond does.​

Like facial recognition tech on your cell phone scans your face and knows the difference between you and your cousin, a lab-grown diamond can’t pass the spectral signature tests that its natural, earth-mined diamond cousin can. The bottom line is that a lab grown diamond’s spectral signature is NOT the same as a natural diamond.
That’s not even the only difference between diamonds and their man-made counterparts. If the jeweler, gemologist, or salesperson you’re buying a diamond from doesn’t know the information below, or doesn’t have the equipment to verify it, don’t buy from them. Period.
Let’s talk about what we can see under a microscope as gemologists. The first thing you would do when examining a loose stone is to look for inclusions, color zoning, and graining. HPHT synthetic process lab grown diamonds don’t contain the same characteristics as natural diamonds. In HPHT stones, you won’t find natural mineral crystals like garnet, diopside, or even other diamonds lurking inside the lattice structure like bonus jewels; you won’t see twinning wisps, natural radiation straining, or even etch channels. What you might see is dark, opaque, clumpy blotches of the metallic flux that the stone grew in, which are usually highly reflective under fiber optic light and conclusive proof of its factory origins. In CVD grown synthetics, you might also see irregularly shaped, dark, non-diamond carbon inclusions.

 

[DejaWiz]

but those lower price then the setting color stones are usually authentic and high quality for their type....

So what?
They're not using your money to do it, so why keep arguing about it?

 

[WestchesterButterfly]

And it's gorgeous! Did you get the Grace or Margot or something else? Any more photos anywhere?

Grace - good eye. I haven’t posted more photos. I’ll get around to it eventually.

 

[freddyboston]

So what?
They're not using your money to do it, so why keep arguing about it?

I'm not arguing - i just think it's peculiar using a big synth gem in a bespoke setting....
and if heavy is unaffordable then just buy a smaller ct size like they do in Europe...

What Is The Average Carat Size For An Engagement Ring?

One of the essential factors to consider when selecting an engagement ring is the carat size of the diamond.

www.pricescope.com

 

[WestchesterButterfly]

I'm not arguing - i just think it's peculiar using a big synth gem in a bespoke setting....
and if heavy is unaffordable then just buy a smaller ct size like they do in Europe...

What Is The Average Carat Size For An Engagement Ring?

One of the essential factors to consider when selecting an engagement ring is the carat size of the diamond.

www.pricescope.com

I think the point being made is not everyone finds it peculiar. No matter personal feelings there is a strong market for synthetic/man made/ lab diamonds and people are free to spend their money on what they value.

 

[DejaWiz]

I think the point being made is not everyone finds it peculiar. No matter personal feelings there is a strong market for synthetic/man made/ lab diamonds and people are free to spend their money on what they value.

This right here, WestchesterButterfly.

freddyboston I realize that you, personally, are **strictly** all about natural earth grown diamonds and that is fine for you and your life, but you are now saying that everyone should all out avoid human grown diamonds and get as little carat of natural diamond as possible if that is all that their budget allows...Why? Again, what does it matter what other people choose to open their own wallets for when it affects your, mine, and every other consumer's lives exactly 0.00% ?

 

[freddyboston]

Well firstly this is the Rocky Talk forum and cheap synthetics are a massive threat to the natural diamond market.... so the topic is whether the Natural Players can save the Natural industry..... I wouldn't post anything disparaging on the lab forum....



McKinsey did a recent report a few months ago where they identify 3 possible outcomes... #3 already happened in China - would be sad if that happened in the US too.

 

[Vahid_shoaleh]

Lab sapphire cost is about $5

What sort of cutting a 5$ Lab sapphire has?

Regular oval with some windows?

Cut design and quality may be the main parameter for LGD pricing

Would Yoram Finkelstein sell a custome cut LGD for 100$/ct in 2035?

 

[Vahid_shoaleh]

Well firstly this is the Rocky Talk forum and cheap synthetics are a massive threat to the natural diamond market.... so the topic is whether the Natural Players can save the Natural industry..... I wouldn't post anything disparaging on the lab forum....



McKinsey did a recent report a few months ago where they identify 3 possible outcomes... #3 already happened in China - would be sad if that happened in the US too.

All these three can happen simultaneously

In my opinion there will be 4 kind of products and then two of them will be weakened:

Regular cut naturals
patented/custom cut naturals

Regular cut LGD
patented/custom cut LGD

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

I'm not arguing - i just think it's peculiar using a big synth gem in a bespoke setting....
and if heavy is unaffordable then just buy a smaller ct size like they do in Europe...

What Is The Average Carat Size For An Engagement Ring?

One of the essential factors to consider when selecting an engagement ring is the carat size of the diamond.

www.pricescope.com

In my case, I couldn’t afford a natural diamond center stone in the setting I wanted, regardless of size. Perhaps the lower size limit is defined by the graduation of the side stones, or the stylistic limits of the designer. But, if I wanted that Mon Cheri on Mon Petit Budget, I had to go lab grown.

Interestingly, Rapaport’s Instagram reported on the findings of a Plumb Club survey on the topic of what customers value in e-rings. I do not know the reliability of the source, but here is the data for the sake of conversation:

-What matters most in the ring is “Design, metal, brand”

-Two-thirds of respondents spent lass than $5000, and more than half of those spent lass than $2500

Given the high price of gold, this data is consistent with the theory that customers already care more about brand names and designs than the center diamond.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Change is hard, it's also inevitable.

 

[WillyDiamond]

"lab grown diamonds" is the term the market coalesced around, though not everyone agrees with that terminology. Many prefer "man-made" or "synthetic" to more clearly distinguish them from natural diamonds.

GIA and their top scientists have historically used the term "synthetic".

https://www.gia.edu/synthetic-diamond-articles

Brian
If GIA is calling LGD’s “synthetic”, do you think they are throwing shade to the mined diamond industry? To me the word synthetic has a negative connotation.
When you think about it, the mined diamond industry butters GIA’s bread by sending diamonds to grade, and make money. The fewer the diamonds sent for grading the less GIA makes. Would you happen to know if GIA is taking a hit on this LGD business? I also read that GIA get only about 10% of LGD to grade.

 

[DejaWiz]

Well firstly this is the Rocky Talk forum and cheap synthetics are a massive threat to the natural diamond market.... so the topic is whether the Natural Players can save the Natural industry..... I wouldn't post anything disparaging on the lab forum....



McKinsey did a recent report a few months ago where they identify 3 possible outcomes... #3 already happened in China - would be sad if that happened in the US too.

No, firstly this is the PriceScope forum and I would postulate that anti-egalitarianism, misinformation, dishonesty, and even a bit of hostility towards LGDs is what is killing the natural diamond segment (especially when its thrown in the faces of the younger demographics that will be the bulk of the consumer force in the very near future).
OK, I do get the hostility part: most LGDs are low quality crap as @Karl_K called them fish tank gravel quality which will do nothing but give the entirety of the higher quality LGD and MD industry segments bad consumer visibility.

As far as diamonds going out of fashion in China: is it truly (and honestly) because of declining proposal/ marriage rates as well as a growing shift of people putting their money in gold investments since the price of gold has kept rapidly climbing for the past decade-ish?

Sparkling Shift: China's Diamond Market Evolution

China’s diamond market is the world’s 2nd largest, valued at approximately USD 8.8 billion in 2022. The country produces half of the world's lab-grown diamonds.

daxueconsulting.com

I don't think GIA's ridiculous decision to scale back grading effort for LGDs, many of the natural diamond industry's mines closing down because they've been mined-out, or their current panic advertising efforts of throwing darts at a barn door hoping something will stick is going to change the inevitable: as long as parts of the world are in turmoil that negatively impacts the global economy and seriously reduces people's buying power, then LGDs are going to continue to decimate expensive MDs.
My wife's MDs are toilet value right now compared to when we bought them in 2006-2008. But, we knew this going in...we didn't fall into the falsehood trap of buying them for "investment" or "retained value" because we bought them for what they were intended for: their meaning and symbolism to us and no one else, with no plans to ever get rid of them.

I truly feel bad for the folks that got duped into believing that an expensive standard color scale diamond purchase would be some magical vessel for profit but, and we see it often, many end up posting somewhere on the Internet or social media asking why they are only getting offered 30-50% of what they paid even long ago and that they feel taken advantage of and betrayed by the jewelers that whispered all that sugar into their ears.
...Therein is another long running historical problem with the MD industry that has finally been exposed, sparked by the rapid rise of LGDs and ease and speed of information spread over the internet, in my opinion.

According to what multiple industry pros here have posted previously: LGDs are not to blame for the faltering MD industry because LGDs were a necessary solution for a crisis...a mass amount of LGD growth reactors were rapidly brought online throughout China and India via government subsidies during the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic to save as many diamond industry workers jobs as possible while bringing viable products to retail stores that kept consumers spending money on jewelry. This appears to be the continuing approach while MD supply is still stifled by (what I consider rightful) sanctions towards certain countries that have a healthy amount of MD rough that isn't in the global supply chain.

Even most of the elite SIC sellers on earth have offered LGDs for a few years, now - we can only speculate (and shudder at the thought of) how many of them may not be around today to offer their perfectly crafted and highly vetted MDs if they were not able to offer their perfectly crafted and highly vetted LGDs even just a couple/few years ago. LGDs are clearly necessary for the current survival of these wonderful SIC sellers at the retail level, just as they are necessary for the survival at all the other levels in the industry from production to cutting/polishing to grading to distribution.

Don't love them? Then don't buy them. Let others buy them and love them. And so what if they do?

There are similar mindsets that most LGD-exclusive buyers today have towards MDs... unfortunately?
But there is also a heck of a lot of misinformation, lies, and hostility towards MDs about how:

* LGDs are environmentally friendly
* MDs are somehow all blood diamonds
* DeBeers somehow holds a 99% iron grip and controls the entire diamond industry
* There is a magical endless supply of large carat weight, colorless, flawless diamonds coming right out of the ground already perfectly cut and proportioned ready to sell but mysteriously stashed and hidden away in secret warehouses to artificially reduce the supply and increase the prices
* The Kimberley Process and CanadaMark are fake and useless.
* Grossly over exaggerating mining like they're digging Grand Canyon sized fissures all over earth
I read ridiculous comments like these almost daily at Reddit and Facebook - what I do first is LOL, then I attempt to educate the person making ridiculous claims (often replied to with hostility that I'm some kind of shill for what they refer to as "evil murderous mining"...LOL, again).

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

No, firstly this is the PriceScope forum and I would postulate that anti-egalitarianism, misinformation, dishonesty, and even a bit of hostility towards LGDs is what is killing the natural diamond segment (especially when its thrown in the faces of the younger demographics that will be the bulk of the consumer force in the very near future).
OK, I do get the hostility part: most LGDs are low quality crap as @Karl_K called them fish tank gravel quality which will do nothing but give the entirety of the higher quality LGD and MD industry segments bad consumer visibility.

As far as diamonds going out of fashion in China: is it truly (and honestly) because of declining proposal/ marriage rates as well as a growing shift of people putting their money in gold investments since the price of gold has kept rapidly climbing for the past decade-ish?

Sparkling Shift: China's Diamond Market Evolution

China’s diamond market is the world’s 2nd largest, valued at approximately USD 8.8 billion in 2022. The country produces half of the world's lab-grown diamonds.

daxueconsulting.com

I don't think GIA's ridiculous decision to scale back grading effort for LGDs, many of the natural diamond industry's mines closing down because they've been mined-out, or their current panic advertising efforts of throwing darts at a barn door hoping something will stick is going to change the inevitable: as long as parts of the world are in turmoil that negatively impacts the global economy and seriously reduces people's buying power, then LGDs are going to continue to decimate expensive MDs.
My wife's MDs are toilet value right now compared to when we bought them in 2006-2008. But, we knew this going in...we didn't fall into the falsehood trap of buying them for "investment" or "retained value" because we bought them for what they were intended for: their meaning and symbolism to us and no one else, with no plans to ever get rid of them.

I truly feel bad for the folks that got duped into believing that an expensive standard color scale diamond purchase would be some magical vessel for profit but, and we see it often, many end up posting somewhere on the Internet or social media asking why they are only getting offered 30-50% of what they paid even long ago and that they feel taken advantage of and betrayed by the jewelers that whispered all that sugar into their ears.
...Therein is another long running historical problem with the MD industry that has finally been exposed by the rapid rise of LGDs via ease and speed of information spread over the internet, in my opinion.

According to what multiple industry pros here have posted previously: LGDs are not to blame for the faltering MD industry because LGDs were a necessary solution for a crisis...LGD growth reactors were rapidly brought online throughout China and India via government subsidizing during the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic to save as many diamond industry workers jobs as possible while bringing viable products to retail stores that kept consumers spending money on jewelry. This appears to be the continuing approach while MD supply is still stifled by (what I consider rightful) sanctions towards certain countries that have a healthy amount of MD rough that isn't in the global supply chain.

Even most of the elite SIC sellers on earth have offered LGDs for a few years, now - we can only speculate (and shudder at the thought of) how many of them may not be around today to offer their perfectly crafted and highly vetted MDs if they were not able to offer their perfectly crafted and highly vetted LGDs even just a couple/few years ago. LGDs are clearly necessary for the current survival of these wonderful SIC sellers at the retail level, just as they are necessary for the survival at all the other levels in the industry.

Don't love them? Then don't buy them. Let others buy them and love them. And so what if they do?

That's the same mindset that most LGD-exclusive buyers have towards MDs... unfortunately?
Because there is a lot of misinformation, lies, and hostility towards MDs about how:

* LGDs are environmentally friendly
* MDs are somehow all blood diamonds
* DeBeers somehow holds a 99% iron grip and controls the entire diamond industry
* There is a magical endless supply of large carat weight, colorless, flawless diamonds coming right out of the ground already perfectly cut and proportioned ready to sell but mysteriously stashed and hidden away in secret warehouses to artificially reduce the supply and increase the prices
* The Kimberley Process and CanadaMark are fake.
* Grossly over exaggerating mining like they're digging Grand Canyon sized fissures all over earth
I read ridiculous comments like these almost daily at Reddit and Facebook - what I do first is LOL, then I attempt to educate the person making ridiculous claims (often replied to with hostility that I'm some kind of shill for evil murderous mining).

Well Said DJW!
Nothing much I could add other than reinforce most of your commentary!

 

[Karl_K]

I think that throwing shade at lab diamonds is counterproductive.
Tell me why I want to spend more on natural/mined diamonds.
When the only defense you have is throwing shade at something then you have already lost.
I want to see both parts of the market survive and thrive and split a larger pie if/when the world economy improves.
I am a fan of both.
I have been saying for years that lab diamonds would rise and take a slice of the pie, I was just not expecting it to be this soon.
If the two sides decide to fight it out in public they both could lose as people believe the worst of both that is thrown out there.

Good Vendors will serve what their customers want and do so in the most upfront and honest way possible.
Some of them may get enough customers that is exclusively natural/mined and if they can that is neat.
Some of them may go 100% LGD
I think the vast majority are going to have to serve both parts of the market to survive.
That is way kewl for consumers who have good vendors for both.

What is awesome is the same education and training that PS has provided for decades is critical for consumers buying both natural and lab.
That is why PS needs to survive and thrive!
PS has to be a safe place for both, remember that as you gently debate one side or the other.

 

[Vahid_shoaleh]

@DejaWiz @Garry H (Cut Nut)

I agree and thanks for sharing, just want to know your opinion on this

Will USA be also the main market for selling LGD in next few years?

as GIA deciding like USA will deman 50% of LGD as naturals

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I think that throwing shade at lab diamonds is counterproductive.
Tell me why I want to spend more on natural/mined diamonds.
When the only defense you have is throwing shade at something then you have already lost.
I want to see both parts of the market survive and thrive and split a larger pie if/when the world economy improves.
I am a fan of both.
I have been saying for years that lab diamonds would rise and take a slice of the pie, I was just not expecting it to be this soon.
If the two sides decide to fight it out in public they both could lose as people believe the worst of both that is thrown out there.

Good Vendors will serve what their customers want and do so in the most upfront and honest way possible.
Some of them may get enough customers that is exclusively natural/mined and if they can that is neat.
Some of them may go 100% LGD
I think the vast majority are going to have to serve both parts of the market to survive.
That is way kewl for consumers who have good vendors for both.

What is awesome is the same education and training that PS has provided for decades is critical for consumers buying both natural and lab.
That is why PS needs to survive and thrive!
PS has to be a safe place for both, remember that as you gently debate one side or the other.

I want to see both parts of the market survive and thrive
I am a fan of both.

If the two sides decide to fight it out in public they both could lose as people believe the worst of both that is thrown out there.

Good Vendors will serve what their customers want and do so in the most upfront and honest way possible.

Me too!

Some of them may get enough customers that is exclusively natural/mined and if they can that is neat.
Some of them may go 100% LGD
I think the vast majority are going to have to serve both parts of the market to survive.
That is way kewl for consumers who have good vendors for both.

I have chosen to do only natural but see Lab as a feeder for my business.

What is awesome is the same education and training that PS has provided for decades is critical for consumers buying both natural and lab.
That is why PS needs to survive and thrive!
PS has to be a safe place for both, remember that as you gently debate one side or the other.

Absolutely Karl - both have grading issues that we can contribute to solving.
Loads of lab people are reading what we write here.

 

[Rfisher]

I'm not arguing - i just think it's peculiar using a big synth gem in a bespoke setting....
and if heavy is unaffordable then just buy a smaller ct size like they do in Europe...

Ever been a setting fanatic?
It’s simple once you think of it that way.
The aesthetic of ‘just the setting’ may not translate well scaled far down.
The aesthetic of ‘just a setting’ doesn’t factor in if it really happens to fascinate you. One compared to the other, in person, doesn’t cut it.

as for the rest, I think its fantastic we all don’t have the same viewpoints /wants. That’s be pretty boring of a forum to have the same stones & rings as another.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

No, firstly this is the PriceScope forum and I would postulate that anti-egalitarianism, misinformation, dishonesty, and even a bit of hostility towards LGDs is what is killing the natural diamond segment (especially when its thrown in the faces of the younger demographics that will be the bulk of the consumer force in the very near future).
OK, I do get the hostility part: most LGDs are low quality crap as @Karl_K called them fish tank gravel quality which will do nothing but give the entirety of the higher quality LGD and MD industry segments bad consumer visibility.

As far as diamonds going out of fashion in China: is it truly (and honestly) because of declining proposal/ marriage rates as well as a growing shift of people putting their money in gold investments since the price of gold has kept rapidly climbing for the past decade-ish?

Sparkling Shift: China's Diamond Market Evolution

China’s diamond market is the world’s 2nd largest, valued at approximately USD 8.8 billion in 2022. The country produces half of the world's lab-grown diamonds.

daxueconsulting.com

I don't think GIA's ridiculous decision to scale back grading effort for LGDs, many of the natural diamond industry's mines closing down because they've been mined-out, or their current panic advertising efforts of throwing darts at a barn door hoping something will stick is going to change the inevitable: as long as parts of the world are in turmoil that negatively impacts the global economy and seriously reduces people's buying power, then LGDs are going to continue to decimate expensive MDs.
My wife's MDs are toilet value right now compared to when we bought them in 2006-2008. But, we knew this going in...we didn't fall into the falsehood trap of buying them for "investment" or "retained value" because we bought them for what they were intended for: their meaning and symbolism to us and no one else, with no plans to ever get rid of them.

I truly feel bad for the folks that got duped into believing that an expensive standard color scale diamond purchase would be some magical vessel for profit but, and we see it often, many end up posting somewhere on the Internet or social media asking why they are only getting offered 30-50% of what they paid even long ago and that they feel taken advantage of and betrayed by the jewelers that whispered all that sugar into their ears.
...Therein is another long running historical problem with the MD industry that has finally been exposed, sparked by the rapid rise of LGDs and ease and speed of information spread over the internet, in my opinion.

According to what multiple industry pros here have posted previously: LGDs are not to blame for the faltering MD industry because LGDs were a necessary solution for a crisis...a mass amount of LGD growth reactors were rapidly brought online throughout China and India via government subsidies during the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic to save as many diamond industry workers jobs as possible while bringing viable products to retail stores that kept consumers spending money on jewelry. This appears to be the continuing approach while MD supply is still stifled by (what I consider rightful) sanctions towards certain countries that have a healthy amount of MD rough that isn't in the global supply chain.

Even most of the elite SIC sellers on earth have offered LGDs for a few years, now - we can only speculate (and shudder at the thought of) how many of them may not be around today to offer their perfectly crafted and highly vetted MDs if they were not able to offer their perfectly crafted and highly vetted LGDs even just a couple/few years ago. LGDs are clearly necessary for the current survival of these wonderful SIC sellers at the retail level, just as they are necessary for the survival at all the other levels in the industry from production to cutting/polishing to grading to distribution.

Don't love them? Then don't buy them. Let others buy them and love them. And so what if they do?

There are similar mindsets that most LGD-exclusive buyers today have towards MDs... unfortunately?
But there is also a heck of a lot of misinformation, lies, and hostility towards MDs about how:

* LGDs are environmentally friendly
* MDs are somehow all blood diamonds
* DeBeers somehow holds a 99% iron grip and controls the entire diamond industry
* There is a magical endless supply of large carat weight, colorless, flawless diamonds coming right out of the ground already perfectly cut and proportioned ready to sell but mysteriously stashed and hidden away in secret warehouses to artificially reduce the supply and increase the prices
* The Kimberley Process and CanadaMark are fake and useless.
* Grossly over exaggerating mining like they're digging Grand Canyon sized fissures all over earth
I read ridiculous comments like these almost daily at Reddit and Facebook - what I do first is LOL, then I attempt to educate the person making ridiculous claims (often replied to with hostility that I'm some kind of shill for what they refer to as "evil murderous mining"...LOL, again).

I like everything you post, DejaWiz. Makes me even more happy that you were the one that found my beautiful, beautiful beautiful 2-carat LGD. May I ask what SIC stands for?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Brian
If GIA is calling LGD’s “synthetic”, do you think they are throwing shade to the mined diamond industry? To me the word synthetic has a negative connotation.
When you think about it, the mined diamond industry butters GIA’s bread by sending diamonds to grade, and make money. The fewer the diamonds sent for grading the less GIA makes. Would you happen to know if GIA is taking a hit on this LGD business? I also read that GIA get only about 10% of LGD to grade.

I think the point being made is not everyone finds it peculiar. No matter personal feelings there is a strong market for synthetic/man made/ lab diamonds and people are free to spend their money on what they value.

But does it even matter if some folks insist on referring to LGDs as “synthetic” diamonds? Or, as I think someone posted, “ real lab-grown” diamonds? So what? I assume the same folks that prefer using terms such as “synthetic” to describe LGDs are the same people that use synthetic refrigerator ice in their beverages, and while I assume that ice is, in fact, technically synthetic (and if I’m mistaken, please correct me), who cares? It’s still ice.

 

[Rfisher]

But does it even matter if some folks insist on referring to LGDs as “synthetic” diamonds? Or, as I think someone posted, “ real lab-grown” diamonds? So what? I assume the same folks that prefer using terms such as “synthetic” to describe LGDs are the same people that use synthetic refrigerator ice in their beverages, and while I assume that ice is, in fact, technically synthetic (and if I’m mistaken, please correct me), who cares? It’s still ice.

Random thought.

I wonder if lab grown meat marketing people will have these same discussions.

“ Who cares? It’s still meat? “

 

[WestchesterButterfly]

Random thought.

I wonder if lab grown meat marketing people will have these same discussions.

“ Who cares? It’s still meat? “

Somehow lab grown meat seems less palatable but people do eat and love imitation crab.

 

[elle_chris]

Random thought.

I wonder if lab grown meat marketing people will have these same discussions.

“ Who cares? It’s still meat? “

It's interesting you posted this.

I buy from local farms who butcher their own.

Would rather go vegetarian than eat the crap that's sold in supermarkets.

 

[elle_chris]

No, firstly this is the PriceScope forum and I would postulate that anti-egalitarianism, misinformation, dishonesty, and even a bit of hostility towards LGDs is what is killing the natural diamond segment (especially when its thrown in the faces of the younger demographics that will be the bulk of the consumer force in the very near future).
OK, I do get the hostility part: most LGDs are low quality crap as @Karl_K called them fish tank gravel quality which will do nothing but give the entirety of the higher quality LGD and MD industry segments bad consumer visibility.

As far as diamonds going out of fashion in China: is it truly (and honestly) because of declining proposal/ marriage rates as well as a growing shift of people putting their money in gold investments since the price of gold has kept rapidly climbing for the past decade-ish?

Sparkling Shift: China's Diamond Market Evolution

China’s diamond market is the world’s 2nd largest, valued at approximately USD 8.8 billion in 2022. The country produces half of the world's lab-grown diamonds.

daxueconsulting.com

I don't think GIA's ridiculous decision to scale back grading effort for LGDs, many of the natural diamond industry's mines closing down because they've been mined-out, or their current panic advertising efforts of throwing darts at a barn door hoping something will stick is going to change the inevitable: as long as parts of the world are in turmoil that negatively impacts the global economy and seriously reduces people's buying power, then LGDs are going to continue to decimate expensive MDs.
My wife's MDs are toilet value right now compared to when we bought them in 2006-2008. But, we knew this going in...we didn't fall into the falsehood trap of buying them for "investment" or "retained value" because we bought them for what they were intended for: their meaning and symbolism to us and no one else, with no plans to ever get rid of them.

I truly feel bad for the folks that got duped into believing that an expensive standard color scale diamond purchase would be some magical vessel for profit but, and we see it often, many end up posting somewhere on the Internet or social media asking why they are only getting offered 30-50% of what they paid even long ago and that they feel taken advantage of and betrayed by the jewelers that whispered all that sugar into their ears.
...Therein is another long running historical problem with the MD industry that has finally been exposed, sparked by the rapid rise of LGDs and ease and speed of information spread over the internet, in my opinion.

According to what multiple industry pros here have posted previously: LGDs are not to blame for the faltering MD industry because LGDs were a necessary solution for a crisis...a mass amount of LGD growth reactors were rapidly brought online throughout China and India via government subsidies during the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic to save as many diamond industry workers jobs as possible while bringing viable products to retail stores that kept consumers spending money on jewelry. This appears to be the continuing approach while MD supply is still stifled by (what I consider rightful) sanctions towards certain countries that have a healthy amount of MD rough that isn't in the global supply chain.

Even most of the elite SIC sellers on earth have offered LGDs for a few years, now - we can only speculate (and shudder at the thought of) how many of them may not be around today to offer their perfectly crafted and highly vetted MDs if they were not able to offer their perfectly crafted and highly vetted LGDs even just a couple/few years ago. LGDs are clearly necessary for the current survival of these wonderful SIC sellers at the retail level, just as they are necessary for the survival at all the other levels in the industry from production to cutting/polishing to grading to distribution.

Don't love them? Then don't buy them. Let others buy them and love them. And so what if they do?

There are similar mindsets that most LGD-exclusive buyers today have towards MDs... unfortunately?
But there is also a heck of a lot of misinformation, lies, and hostility towards MDs about how:

* LGDs are environmentally friendly
* MDs are somehow all blood diamonds
* DeBeers somehow holds a 99% iron grip and controls the entire diamond industry
* There is a magical endless supply of large carat weight, colorless, flawless diamonds coming right out of the ground already perfectly cut and proportioned ready to sell but mysteriously stashed and hidden away in secret warehouses to artificially reduce the supply and increase the prices
* The Kimberley Process and CanadaMark are fake and useless.
* Grossly over exaggerating mining like they're digging Grand Canyon sized fissures all over earth
I read ridiculous comments like these almost daily at Reddit and Facebook - what I do first is LOL, then I attempt to educate the person making ridiculous claims (often replied to with hostility that I'm some kind of shill for what they refer to as "evil murderous mining"...LOL, again).

Agree with everything you're saying.

The last part of your post is why I find myself always defending natural.
It's not because I care what people are buying, it's because they tend to parrot eachothers misinformation.

Even in this thread there's passive aggressive comments towards people who prefer naturals.

Crazy how people care so much what others spend their money on or their views. It almost feels political

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Somehow lab grown meat seems less palatable but people do eat and love imitation crab.

Except imitation crab is pollock or cod, which of course is not crab.

 

[Dreamer_D]

The natural diamond industry seems to be losing the public opinion game bc it doesn’t understand how to grab and shape public opinion these days. Are they willing to pay troll farms and bots to go on Reddit and other social media to flood the boards with emotion grabbing messaging? Bc it seems that is what it takes these days to create market-shifting changes in peoples behaviour.

I actually think @freddyboston posts in this thread come closest to the meme-generating style that works today.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Somehow lab grown meat seems less palatable but people do eat and love imitation crab.

But it's made with wild caught fish! Pollock in particular, from the Bering Sea.

(My brother had a long career in international and fisheries law and was instrumental in helping develop the Bering Sea fishery into a sustainable resource in an era of intense international competition.)

 

[Rfisher]

i was addressing the use of Leon Mege etc... He makes Heirloom Quality rings... His preowned stuff goes to auction or consignment you don't generally just melt them down... So if one is paying the upcharge for his bench why use LGB ? (it's like putting cheap tires on Rolls Royce)

did you ever see - do you remember how he /his website talked about moissy in the past? Then when they first started calling it blonde(tm) ? It was different (snarky even ?) than how it is now.
How his website talks about mmd is the same path. It’s changed over time.
Their last statement about natural diamonds, in the blonde(tm) section, is a hint at something.

Your viewpoint doesn’t match him and his team/brand. Anymore. For now.

For now is the key point. And I think that’s a valid thing for each vendor.
How each consumer views that in turn, over time seeing the changes , and how/what influences them - ?????