Natural Diamonds - New Campaign - Good timing or too little too late?

[Lookinagain]

Haven't we had this conversation before in another thread? I'm getting déjà vu.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Haven't we had this conversation before in another thread? I'm getting déjà vu.

Yes, we have. Nothing changes. Most people realize and understand the difference in two products - and accept it. Then they make choices depending on preference. I am over and out!

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Only in the US.
In France, they mandate labs be called synthetic.

 

[elle_chris]

It’s water that becomes ice, as carbon becomes diamonds. When you say, they are not the same thing, what do you mean by “thing” specifically?

Synthetic and natural.

Either way, this is another thread that got derailed so I'm done.

Goodnight!

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Yes, we have. Nothing changes. Most people realize and understand the difference in two products - and accept it. Then they make choices depending on preference. I am over and out!

A previous poster stated that most people don’t know that when they go to a mall store to buy a diamond, they’re usually getting a sub-par product. And yet you’re saying most people realize and understand the difference in the two products. (I assume the two products are diamonds from the Earth versus diamonds from a lab.) So most people don’t know that a diamond from a mall store might be sub-par, but they understand the differences between mined and lab diamonds?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Synthetic and natural.

Either way, this is another thread that got derailed so I'm done.

Goodnight!

Have a good night.

 

[Lookinagain]

So most people don’t know that a diamond from a mall store might be sub-par, but they understand the differences between mined and lab diamonds?

Well, they will probably figure it out when they see the price differential between mined and lab. Then they would ask questions and the term synthetic would probably come up. So yes, that should make them understand the differences. Again, we've been through this before. I'm out as well.

 

[WillyDiamond]

Brian, I find it amazing the people mining and selling natural diamonds did not see this coming. When you are standing on the tracks and the train is coming, it is time to get off the tracks. Were the natural diamond dynasties thinking that they were teflon coated? They brought it on themselves. I have claimed for years the price of natural diamonds is artificially determined. Please do not tell me supply and demand really pegged prices over the years. If the natural diamond sellers want to get back in the game, there is one answer, lower prices. I suspect by now, the LGD business is eating the lunch of the natural diamond guys.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Brian, I find it amazing the people mining and selling natural diamonds did not see this coming. When you are standing on the tracks and the train is coming, it is time to get off the tracks. Were the natural diamond dynasties thinking that they were teflon coated? They brought it on themselves. I have claimed for years the price of natural diamonds is artificially determined. Please do not tell me supply and demand really pegged prices over the years. If the natural diamond sellers want to get back in the game, there is one answer, lower prices. I suspect by now, the LGD business is eating the lunch of the natural diamond guys.

A few months ago I sold a mined diamond to a jeweler in one of those “jewelry exchange” places. (I apologize if that is not a clear description.)
A week prior, he had offered me 25% more than what I ended up selling it to him for the following week. To keeping it simple, he originally offered me $10, and in the span of a week that offer dropped to $7.50. He said, and I quote, “Lab-grown diamonds are killing my [mined diamond] business.” And I wondered WHY he was purchasing my diamond, because I couldn’t believe he could sell it for more than what he purchased it from me for. And even though this occurred over four months ago, I still think about him and wonder how his business is faring. He had ZILLIONS of pieces of exclusively (according to him) mined-diamond jewelry.

 

[Bron357]

The question at any time is
Who is buying a diamond and why?
Diamonds are not a life necessity and I feel younger people have less interest in them for adornment.
Diamonds were always held in high esteem as a luxury and expensive item. They are beautiful and are resilient in wear.
Here on Pricescope we are selective and knowledgeable. We understand the difference between lab grown and natural but who else can tell from 3 feet away when looking at your ring and do they even care?
You might but someone viewing your diamond will only see the size and whether it looks sparkly. And for most people wearing a diamond they want it to look like a diamond and be admirable. The fact that it’s lab or natural matters only to the owner not the viewer.
I remember an article where a rich lady with her glorious and extremely expensive 5 carat natural diamond was extremely “miffed” to see a young woman wearing an equally impressive size diamond but it was “a cheap lab one”. How dare the woman with a $5,000 lab diamond get the same “viewer looks” as her $200,000 diamond.
Thats the issue, people with large rare natural diamonds aren’t impressed with the much much cheaper lab diamonds that now anyone and everyone can wear. The mystique, the rarity, the OMG that’s huge and the “status” has been degraded.
So natural diamonds matter to some but many who want a pretty sparkle on their finger will use price point as the basis of their decision. If you can get admiration and positive feedback for a $5,000 diamond, why would you be inclined to spend $200,000 that looks the same?

 

[lulu_ma]

A few months ago I sold a mined diamond to a jeweler in one of those “jewelry exchange” places. (I apologize if that is not a clear description.)
A week prior, he had offered me 25% more than what I ended up selling it to him for the following week. To keeping it simple, he originally offered me $10, and in the span of a week that offer dropped to $7.50. He said, and I quote, “Lab-grown diamonds are killing my [mined diamond] business.”

Right, but he still gave you $7.50 because the natural diamond has inherent value. How much do you think he would give you for your LGD?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

The question at any time is
Who is buying a diamond and why?
Diamonds are not a life necessity and I feel younger people have less interest in them for adornment.
Diamonds were always held in high esteem as a luxury and expensive item. They are beautiful and are resilient in wear.
Here on Pricescope we are selective and knowledgeable. We understand the difference between lab grown and natural but who else can tell from 3 feet away when looking at your ring and do they even care?
You might but someone viewing your diamond will only see the size and whether it looks sparkly. And for most people wearing a diamond they want it to look like a diamond and be admirable. The fact that it’s lab or natural matters only to the owner not the viewer.
I remember an article where a rich lady with her glorious and extremely expensive 5 carat natural diamond was extremely “miffed” to see a young woman wearing an equally impressive size diamond but it was “a cheap lab one”. How dare the woman with a $5,000 lab diamond get the same “viewer looks” as her $200,000 diamond.
Thats the issue, people with large rare natural diamonds aren’t impressed with the much much cheaper lab diamonds that now anyone and everyone can wear. The mystique, the rarity, the OMG that’s huge and the “status” has been degraded.
So natural diamonds matter to some but many who want a pretty sparkle on their finger will use price point as the basis of their decision. If you can get admiration and positive feedback for a $5,000 diamond, why would you be inclined to spend $200,000 that

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Right, but he still gave you $7.50 because the natural diamond has inherent value. How much do you think he would give you for your LGD?

I wouldn’t attempt to sell my LGD. I wouldn’t expect to get anything for it.
As far as him giving me $7.50 for it, I just couldn’t imagine that he could’ve sold it for more than that. Obviously, he must know what he’s doing, because he’s in the business, but I just couldn’t imagine that he could turn around and make a profit off it.

 

[lulu_ma]

I wouldn’t attempt to sell my LGD. I wouldn’t expect to get anything for it.
As far as him giving me $7.50 for it, I just couldn’t imagine that he could’ve sold it for more than that. Obviously, he must know what he’s doing, because he’s in the business, but I just couldn’t imagine that he could turn around and make a profit off it.

Obviously, he could-or else he wouldn't have bought it from you.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Brian, I find it amazing the people mining and selling natural diamonds did not see this coming. When you are standing on the tracks and the train is coming, it is time to get off the tracks. Were the natural diamond dynasties thinking that they were teflon coated? They brought it on themselves. I have claimed for years the price of natural diamonds is artificially determined. Please do not tell me supply and demand really pegged prices over the years. If the natural diamond sellers want to get back in the game, there is one answer, lower prices. I suspect by now, the LGD business is eating the lunch of the natural diamond guys.

I'm not sure it was ignorance or arrogance on the part of the natural diamond industry. I think it was (and still is) a perfect storm. The emergence of LGD could not have been timed better. First a pandemic and the supply chain disruptions and economic anxiety that came with it. Then a Russian invasion and sanctions and more economic anxiety. Now a tariff war that is having massive repercussions for the world economy. These events have fundamentally reshaped the mindset of a new generation of shoppers.

With this unprecedented backdrop, a cheaper version of something people desire was sure to take hold. The question is what happens from here? The only thing that is clear is that we are not going back to the way it was before.

Sometimes when you are at sea in a storm, the only thing you can do is hunker down and try to live to fight another day. Maybe that day is dawning for the natural diamond business. But storm clouds are still on the horizon.

 

[Matata]

One doesn’t have to ignore anything.

And yet your "Period" communicated exactly that. No negotiation with your position that lab created and mined are diamonds without differences when there are significant differences physically, socially, culturally, emotionally and economically.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

I'm not sure it was ignorance or arrogance on the part of the natural diamond industry. I think it was (and still is) a perfect storm. The emergence of LGD could not have been timed better. First a pandemic and the supply chain disruptions and economic anxiety that came with it. Then a Russian invasion and sanctions and more economic anxiety. Now a tariff war that is having massive repercussions for the world economy. These events have fundamentally reshaped the mindset of a new generation of shoppers.

With this unprecedented backdrop, a cheaper version of something people desire was sure to take hold. The question is what happens from here? The only thing that is clear is that we are not going back to the way it was before.

Sometimes when you are at sea in a storm, the only thing you can do is hunker down and try to live to fight another day. Maybe that day is dawning for the natural diamond business. But storm clouds are still on the horizon.

Someone is paying attention to the forecast. Anglo American is selling de Beers

Anglo American writes down value of diamond firm De Beers by $2.9bn

Sale of the miner, which is now valued at $4bn, may be delayed following ‘really, really difficult’ market

www.theguardian.com

 

[freddyboston]

Someone is paying attention to the forecast. Anglo American is selling de Beers

Anglo American writes down value of diamond firm De Beers by $2.9bn

Sale of the miner, which is now valued at $4bn, may be delayed following ‘really, really difficult’ market

www.theguardian.com

The cheap synthetic parasite is killing the host....

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Obviously, he could-or else he wouldn't have bought it from you.

Right.

And yet your "Period" communicated exactly that. No negotiation with your position that lab created and mined are diamonds without differences when there are significant differences physically, socially, culturally, emotionally and economically.

Not at all. I never said they didn’t have differences. I said they’re both diamonds. I don’t think the fact that mined and natural diamonds are, of course, both diamonds, is debatable. I think it’s a fact, if I understand everything I’ve read and heard about lab-grown diamonds to date.

 

[Karl_K]

It is pretty much impossible to deny that LGD saved the diamond industry and allowed there to be an industry for natural diamonds to be produced at all.

The entire supply chain was dying, little rough to produce and few buyers.

Once you lose highly skilled diamond cutters it takes years to train new ones.

LGD allowed them to keep the factories up and running and the best employees working.

When rough availability and demand recover to whatever degree they will recover the supply chain will be there to supply them to you.

Without LGD there was a high chance that would not be the case.

 

[freddyboston]

I think that is debatable that LGD saved anything....

Granted there was a demand / supply shock during early covid + Alrosa embargo but Covid backlog was short lived and Alrosa will eventually resolve.
I would argue LGD's have/are cannibalizing the Natural Market.... China has abandoned Diamonds Altogether and the US Market E ring buyers are 50+% synthetics now.
These days producers are holding back on sales / shuttering mines / stockpiling rough.....

 

[Texas Leaguer]

It is pretty much impossible to deny that LGD saved the diamond industry and allowed there to be an industry for natural diamonds to be produced at all.

The entire supply chain was dying, little rough to produce and few buyers.

Once you lose highly skilled diamond cutters it takes years to train new ones.

LGD allowed them to keep the factories up and running and the best employees working.

When rough availability and demand recover to whatever degree they will recover the supply chain will be there to supply them to you.

Without LGD there was a high chance that would not be the case.

This is a very good observation. And a reason why manufacturers and many of their downstream customers embraced LGD. It was a lifeboat for many. Ironically, that greatly helped LGD to go viral with little pushback.

The meteoric rise of LGD may not have been inevitable had world events and economic conditions not been so difficult for the natural diamond industry at the time.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I think that is debatable that LGD saved anything....

Granted there was a demand / supply shock during early covid + Alrosa embargo but Covid backlog was short lived and Alrosa will eventually resolve.
I would argue LGD's have/are cannibalizing the Natural Market.... China has abandoned Diamonds Altogether and the US Market E ring buyers are 50+% synthetics now.
These days producers are holding back on sales / shuttering mines / stockpiling rough.....

I think it's both. LGD both helped the diamond industry survive and is a major competitor. No doubt natural has lost significant market share to LGD. How much of that loss is permanent is an open question. We are a long way from reaching a new equillibrium. And at this point I think the natural industry has a form of PTSD, waiting for the next shoe to drop! I think there is a feeling the LGD threat will recede, but serious concern about the uncertainties around this trade war and consequently the global economic outlook.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

The cheap synthetic parasite is killing the host....

You're in a tough spot if you want to sell DeBeers in the current environment. First of all, there are extremely few potential buyers! Second of all, despite all the good DeBeers has done for the diamond industry over it's history, the BRAND comes with some negative bagage in the marketplace. Some of it earned, some the product of persistent myths.

 

[Vahid_shoaleh]

It is pretty much impossible to deny that LGD saved the diamond industry and allowed there to be an industry for natural diamonds to be produced at all.

The entire supply chain was dying, little rough to produce and few buyers.

Once you lose highly skilled diamond cutters it takes years to train new ones.

LGD allowed them to keep the factories up and running and the best employees working.

When rough availability and demand recover to whatever degree they will recover the supply chain will be there to supply them to you.

Without LGD there was a high chance that would not be the case.

I agree that LGD rescued cutting factories.

But the most interesting part of story is that the only property of diamond that stops the price of LGD from decreasing to very low levels is the cutting costs

And the only property of a diamond which will make it expensive/different will be also its cut quality


Color/Carat/Clarity won't be the concerns of the buyer in next few years
It will be all about the cut quality and light performances

I think it's both. LGD both helped the diamond industry survive and is a major competitor. No doubt natural has lost significant market share to LGD. How much of that loss is permanent is an open question. We are a long way from reaching a new equillibrium. And at this point I think the natural industry has a form of PTSD, waiting for the next shoe to drop! I think there is a feeling the LGD threat will recede, but serious concern about the uncertainties around this trade war and consequently the global economic outlook.

Do we really reach the end of market share losing of natural diamond?

I don't think so in 10 years the new generation of buyers refuse buying naturals and the price and market share of naturals will be decreasing (signifacant but maybe not large)


The war will be between branded specific novel cut designs that will only be offered as LGD or Naturals

Can I buy a LGD as A Cut Above? No
So if I want ACA I should buy natural

Can I buy a Natural Octagon Nova (JaanPaul)? No
So if I want Octagon Nova I should buy LGD


The war will not between LGD and Natural, it will be all about how a diamond shine and customers prefer which sort of shining

It's my opinion, like to know yours

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Supply and demand.
Labs and China kill natural demand.
Mines close as FB mentioned.
Natural prices rise.
People buy more when prices are rising.
e.g. gold consumption increases as prices rise.

 

[Vahid_shoaleh]

Supply and demand.
Labs and China kill natural demand.
Mines close as FB mentioned.
Natural prices rise.
People buy more when prices are rising.
e.g. gold consumption increases as prices rise.

So in your opinion there will be no decreasing of demand for naturals that will prevent increasing of the prices?? Right?

Also can we both agree that there is no synthethic gold out there and this example is totally unacceptable?

Can we agree that gold is the world's safest investment but diamond is not?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

So in your opinion there will be no decreasing of demand for naturals that will prevent increasing of the prices?? Right?

Also can we both agree that there is no synthethic gold out there and this example is totally unacceptable?

Can we agree that gold is the world's safest investment but diamond is not?

In the largest consumer nation, and most other OECD nations, the portion of diamonds used as investments is small.
The motivation for buying diamonds very much includes the "retained value" back of mind.
For example retailers know when a man is sent to buy pearls (after hint post it notes left on fridge, beer and pillow) I have witnessed many blokes asking "maybe there is something with diamonds and gold she would prefer (so we upsell the clasp).

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

It is pretty much impossible to deny that LGD saved the diamond industry and allowed there to be an industry for natural diamonds to be produced at all.

That’s an interesting perspective and it added to the conversation rather than rehashing everything.

I agree that LGD rescued cutting factories.

But the most interesting part of story is that the only property of diamond that stops the price of LGD from decreasing to very low levels is the cutting costs

And the only property of a diamond which will make it expensive/different will be also its cut quality

I mostly agree with you. Would add that weird cuts/shapes/designs might also be profitable. I have a little diamond “disco ball” and apparently it was a beast to cut. Something like that might catch on as a luxury item.

Maybe other made-to-order qualities could be profitable… magnetic, phosphorescence.

 

[Vahid_shoaleh]

In the largest consumer nation, and most other OECD nations, the portion of diamonds used as investments is small.
The motivation for buying diamonds very much includes the "retained value" back of mind.
For example retailers know when a man is sent to buy pearls (after hint post it notes left on fridge, beer and pillow) I have witnessed many blokes asking "maybe there is something with diamonds and gold she would prefer (so we upsell the clasp).

If it's about retained value LGD may cause a real chaos, we have to wait and see if natural prices go high as you predicted

I do agree that most of human's behaviour are kind of complicated courtship behaviour, and considering gold/diamond as a Nuptial gift is a strong theory that I cannot disagree easily.

Thanks for sharing your opinion

That’s an interesting perspective and it added to the conversation rather than rehashing everything.



I mostly agree with you. Would add that weird cuts/shapes/designs might also be profitable. I have a little diamond “disco ball” and apparently it was a beast to cut. Something like that might catch on as a luxury item.

Maybe other made-to-order qualities could be profitable… magnetic, phosphorescence.

Other qualities you mentioned I like, I would like to see colorless LGD with red Fluorescent

A friend droped the example of synthetic corundums and CZ to proof LGD prices will be too low and they will be everywhere and cheap but people will go back to the real one after sometime

Detailed design of some diamonds are the only reason for their high prices.

Cutting diamond is not like cutting CZ and Corundum

Big brandings performed based on Scarecity, Hardness, Brilliance of diamonds in last century
I think the only thing that still remains is Brilliance not two other