''Native'' cut stones

[chrono]

Date: 10/8/2008 11:56:49 AM
Author: Linda W

Date: 10/8/2008 11:53:10 AM
Author: purrfectpear
No problem. Next time I'll just say cut by someone with an eye toward carat weight, and a blind eye towards symmetry. Or, I could use the term Guppy Cut, since many of those stones look like a very pregnant guppy

HA!!!, some of them do look like a pregnant guppy, ha ha ha.

PP.
I would not call it cut for purely weight retention either. Many are cut to acheive maximum colour, thus some tend to have weight so that the light path through the stone is longer = stone looks to have a deeper stronger colour. Some cutters also are loath to cut off an inclusion or multiple, so maybe in working around the rough, it ends up being a little off symmetry. In cutting off the inclusion or in trying to acheive precision cutting, the stone will end up much smaller, the colour will lighten and thus will sell for much much less. I also now understand why some native cutters deliberately cut windows - to lighten up a stone that is very dark so that it will look pleasing instead of looking blackish.

I can't believe I'm actually defending some poorly cut stones.

I've graduated from loving all stones, then precision cutting, and now I just love colour and know how to appreciate it better.

 

[Linda W]

My pad in my avatar does look a little like a pregnant guppy.... but the color of it is amazing. It is beautiful. When the light hits or sunlight, the color is so darn beautiful. It is one gorgeous stone. It is cut a roval cut and it is so brilliant. I adore this stone. My other pads, are cut differently and are not cut deep.



Linda

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 10/9/2008 1:15:20 PM
Author: Linda W
My pad in my avatar does look a little like a pregnant guppy.... but the color of it is amazing. It is beautiful. When the light hits or sunlight, the color is so darn beautiful. It is one gorgeous stone. It is cut a roval cut and it is so brilliant. I adore this stone. My other pads, are cut differently and are not cut deep.



Linda

How would we *really* know, Linda, when you never post pics?

...still waiting!

LS

 

[Inanna]

Date: 10/9/2008 1:15:20 PM
Author: Linda W
My pad in my avatar does look a little like a pregnant guppy.... but the color of it is amazing. It is beautiful. When the light hits or sunlight, the color is so darn beautiful. It is one gorgeous stone. It is cut a roval cut and it is so brilliant. I adore this stone. My other pads, are cut differently and are not cut deep.




Linda

Linda - the pad in your avatar is simply the most beautiful pad I''ve ever seen! It''s really what I consider to be the PERFECT pad color. You''re so lucky!!!

 

[Linda W]

Thank you so much inanna I love it so much. I wear it as an alternative to my wedding ring. People always want to know what stone it is, most have never heard of the Padparadscha sapphire.

LS: I know, I know, my daughter has to take the pictures for me.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 10/9/2008 2:09:38 PM
Author: Linda W
I know, I know, my daughter has to take the pictures for me.

I have been waiting to see your pad since I joined PS!

I think this is a great discussion. It''s really interesting to hear these perspectives.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 10/9/2008 3:10:26 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 10/9/2008 2:09:38 PM

Author: Linda W

I know, I know, my daughter has to take the pictures for me.

I have been waiting to see your pad since I joined PS!

I think this is a great discussion. It''s really interesting to hear these perspectives.

ACK Coati and I have had it, since 2006

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 10/9/2008 3:13:40 PM
Author: Linda W

ACK Coati and I have had it, since 2006

is right!

I can be patient. I''ve waited 10 months.

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 10/9/2008 3:52:26 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 10/9/2008 3:13:40 PM
Author: Linda W

ACK Coati and I have had it, since 2006

is right!
I can be patient. I''ve waited 10 months.

I''m not that patient!

Isn''t this grounds for disqualification from coloured stones??

LS

 

[Harriet]

Date: 10/8/2008 5:35:37 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 10/8/2008 5:10:51 PM
Author: Harriet
Bickering? To me, this thread is a lively debate between some people with experience and expertise and I''m learning from it.

I''d be inclined to agree with you lovely Harriet, if it were the first time the tone/saturation debate occurred. Since it''s not...I''m inclined to say that it''s bickering. IMO as always.

I''d rather not disagree with you since I''d like a recipe or two from you.

But, saturation and tone are germane to a discussion of cut.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 10/9/2008 6:21:49 PM
Author: LostSapphire

Date: 10/9/2008 3:52:26 PM

Author: coatimundi

Date: 10/9/2008 3:13:40 PM

Author: Linda W


ACK Coati and I have had it, since 2006

is right!

I can be patient. I''ve waited 10 months.

I''m not that patient!


Isn''t this grounds for disqualification from coloured stones??

LS

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 10/9/2008 11:57:28 PM
Author: Linda W

Date: 10/9/2008 6:21:49 PM
Author: LostSapphire


I''m not that patient!

Isn''t this grounds for disqualification from coloured stones??

LS

I can still see you Linda!

LS

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 10/9/2008 8:42:54 AM
Author: Ali

Date: 10/9/2008 8:34:52 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 10/8/2008 11:47:22 AM
Author: FinewaterGems
As a fairly new cutter, I had bought into the idea that ''precision'' cutting was always superior to ''native'' cuts. That is, until I bought some nice blue zircons last year in Chanthaburi, Thailand. They were actually well cut, but I thought that I could improve them by recutting. I was shocked to find out that recutting did not really help. The brilliance was improved, but the color was less saturated. It was a humbling realization that maybe these cutters know what they are doing (they''ve only been doing this for hundreds of years!) A well cut stone is a well cut stone - no matter where it comes from. In fact, I''m planning a buying trip to Sri Lanka in January and will make it a point to visit some lapidaries to learn more about their cutting and orientation techniques.

Hey, is that you Gary?
Nice to see you on the forum, and welcome!

Just fyi, you are required as someone ''in the trade'' to put said info in your signature.
I hope you enjoy reading and posting here, more gem-heads are always welcome!

Actually, it isn''t required to be in the signature, but we allow it as a benefit. Trade members are only required to state their professional association in their profile, which is kept private.

My mistake, cheers for the clarification !

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 10/9/2008 11:53:56 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 10/8/2008 5:35:37 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 10/8/2008 5:10:51 PM
Author: Harriet
Bickering? To me, this thread is a lively debate between some people with experience and expertise and I''m learning from it.

I''d be inclined to agree with you lovely Harriet, if it were the first time the tone/saturation debate occurred. Since it''s not...I''m inclined to say that it''s bickering. IMO as always.

I''d rather not disagree with you since I''d like a recipe or two from you.

But, saturation and tone are germane to a discussion of cut.

You can get recipes from me anytime! (BTW, I believe we''re still waiting on some wedding pics from you missy!)

 

[pyramid]

Is cutting a stone deeper for more colour sort of like the reverse of precision cut for making a diamond appear more colourless face up. I mean is it just that the stone appears to have more colour saturation but does not in the way a well cut diamond looks to be of a higher colour but is not.

I am finding this discussion interesting too, I love to hear the diamond cutters, jewellers, gemmologists, appraisers and Storm in conversation about the technical details.

 

[PrecisionGem]

By making a stone thicker, you can increase the tone, not the saturation. In gemstones, saturation means something different than most people are using the word here. Look up on this thread, and you will see some color gradient pictures I posted showing the difference between saturation and tone.

There are ways to make a lighter stone appear darker. A barion cut is one way. This type of cutting creates a deeper pavilion, but still allows for the correct angles for optimal light reflection. But it won''t change the saturation of the stone, only the tone.

In "The Secrets of the Gem Trade", on pg 24:

"Today fine cutting must be considered a necessary factor in the connoisseurship equation. That is, a well-cut stone may not necessarily be fine, but a fine stone must always be well cut"

 

[colormyworld]

I am not going to debate this point any longer.I stand by my point.

On the cutting I would like to ask you a question though. Can fine cutting be acheived with a jamb peg "native cut" machine or is "fine cutting" only possible in the US by american cutters?

 

[PrecisionGem]

Fine cutting can be achieved by many different methods, and on various types of cutting equipment, jam peg included.