Narrowed it down - now the final test: PS evaluation! Please assess

[DChokie]

Greetings all,

Been a PS addict for about three months now - soaked up all the info I could after deciding to propose to my girlfriend. The information has been extremely helpful - seriously, I would pay money for access to this site. After learning all I could, I began tirelessly searching for MY rock. Here are my parameters:

Budget: $20-25k
Carat: minimum 2
Clarity: VS1-SI1 (eye clean)
Color: G-H
Cut: highest quality possible

That being said, here''s what I''ve found:

Carat: 2.11
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Cut: Excellent (GIA)

GIA report dimensions:

Depth %: 61.2
Table %: 56
Crown angle: 35
Pavillion angle: 40.8
Culet: none

GCAL report dimensions:

Depth %: 61.1
Table %: 57
Crown angle: 34.6
Pavillion angle: 40.6
Culet: none

Price after all''s said and done: ~23k

Your brutal honestly will be very, very appreciated. FWIW, the rock scores extremely high on the HCA (0., and the reference diagram on the GIA report shows no flaws on the top (the crown?) of the diamond. I''m excited but I want to hear what the unbiased experts think; I''ve seen more than one diamond shot down on these forums before!


Thank you so very much for any input!

 

[stone-cold11]

Numbers looks good.

Do you want alternative suggestions?

 

[DChokie]

Absolutely! Any and all help is most appreciated.

 

[DChokie]

Pic of "photomicrograph", FWIW

 

[abefroman]

Date: 7/22/2009 11:29:25 PM
Author:DChokie
Greetings all,


Been a PS addict for about three months now - soaked up all the info I could after deciding to propose to my girlfriend. The information has been extremely helpful - seriously, I would pay money for access to this site. After learning all I could, I began tirelessly searching for MY rock. Here are my parameters:


Budget: $20-25k

Carat: minimum 2

Clarity: VS1-SI1 (eye clean)

Color: G-H

Cut: highest quality possible

That being said, here''s what I''ve found:


Carat: 2.11

Color: H

Clarity: VS2

Cut: Excellent (GIA)


GIA report dimensions:


Depth %: 61.2

Table %: 56

Crown angle: 35

Pavillion angle: 40.8

Culet: none


GCAL report dimensions:


Depth %: 61.1

Table %: 57

Crown angle: 34.6

Pavillion angle: 40.6

Culet: none


Price after all''s said and done: ~23k


Your brutal honestly will be very, very appreciated. FWIW, the rock scores extremely high on the HCA (0., and the reference diagram on the GIA report shows no flaws on the top (the crown?) of the diamond. I''m excited but I want to hear what the unbiased experts think; I''ve seen more than one diamond shot down on these forums before!



Thank you so very much for any input!

Question: How can the angles be different between the 2 reports? Are they looking at the same diamond?

 

[DChokie]

Date: 7/23/2009 12:03:23 AM
Author: abefroman

Question: How can the angles be different between the 2 reports? Are they looking at the same diamond?

Good question. Same diamond. I don''t know why there''s a difference. I''d speculate that, since two different people are performing the evaluation, perhaps they come to slightly different conclusions? The differences are slight, but the HCA score comes up different (1.5 for the GIA report, 0.8 for the GCAL)!! Yikes.

 

[DChokie]

Also, here's the other diamond I was looking at:

Carat: 2.36
Cut: AGS0
Clarity: SI1
Color: H

AGSL:

Depth %: 61.9
Table %: 55
Crown angle: 34.9
Pavillion angle: 40.7
Culet: very small

GCAL:

Depth %: 61.9
Table %: 55
Crown angle: 34.8
Pavillion angle: 40.7
Culet: very small

Price: also ~$23k

This one has inclusions on the face (the top? the crown?). Worried about eye clean. Ultimately passed on this one in favor of the 2.11 due to the VS2 / SI1 difference. Didn't think the .25 carat difference would be noticeable. Would it?

 

[Lorelei]

The last one looks good. Do you have the actual link for the first one please?

 

[DChokie]

Date: 7/23/2009 5:35:52 AM
Author: Lorelei
The last one looks good. Do you have the actual link for the first one please?

First choice:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-signature-ideal-cut-h-color-vs2-clarity_LD01101699?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 7/23/2009 12:03:23 AM
Author: abefroman
Question: How can the angles be different between the 2 reports? Are they looking at the same diamond?

Simple, because it is taken from 2 different machines and average between 8 facets. Might not be calibrated to the same exact tolerance so measurement are almost always off betweem 2 labs.

 

[stone-cold11]

The AGS0 looks good too. Since SI is their in-house stone, they will be able to check themselves to ensure that it is eye-clean if you are worried about the inclusions, not all center inclusions are automatically visible, ony the vendor with the stone in hand can give you the answer. So no raeson to reject it out of hand.

 

[stone-cold11]

This looks good too if you have no objections buying from other than BN. JA is a trusted vendor here.

Request for an Idealscope image if you are interested from JA and post the image here.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1248703.asp

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 7:56:19 AM
Author: DChokie

Date: 7/23/2009 5:35:52 AM
Author: Lorelei
The last one looks good. Do you have the actual link for the first one please?

First choice:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-signature-ideal-cut-h-color-vs2-clarity_LD01101699?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

Thanks! The diamond looks good and also variance between measurements and techniques is normal - how would you know this if you are new to diamonds - just ask if there is anything you don't understand!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 12:14:51 AM
Author: DChokie
Also, here''s the other diamond I was looking at:

Carat: 2.36
Cut: AGS0
Clarity: SI1
Color: H

AGSL:

Depth %: 61.9
Table %: 55
Crown angle: 34.9
Pavillion angle: 40.7
Culet: very small

GCAL:

Depth %: 61.9
Table %: 55
Crown angle: 34.8
Pavillion angle: 40.7
Culet: very small

Price: also ~$23k

This one has inclusions on the face (the top? the crown?). Worried about eye clean. Ultimately passed on this one in favor of the 2.11 due to the VS2 / SI1 difference. Didn''t think the .25 carat difference would be noticeable. Would it?

Don''t go by the plotting diagram of a grading report to judge the eyecleanliness of any diamond as this will not give an accurate idea, the ONLY way is to ask the vendor to inspect the stone for you, if this is one of their Signature Ideals then they should have it in house.

 

[DChokie]

Date: 7/23/2009 9:10:04 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
This looks good too if you have no objections buying from other than BN. JA is a trusted vendor here.

Request for an Idealscope image if you are interested from JA and post the image here.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1248703.asp

I have no objections to buying from the vendors that PS users endorse. And this looks like a great find! I''ve checked JA before but somehow missed this one. I''ll have to call JA to ask about eyeclean (the Real Diamond Image gives me pause - although I do realize I''m viewing under magnification). I''ll also call BN to ask about their two.

Side question: since obviously I don''t have these stones in front of me, it''s hard to gauge the size differences between my first pick (2.11 carat) and these two alternate stones (2.36 and 2.37). I know we''re talking about probably tenths of millimeters here. Will there be any noticeable difference that could justify choosing the larger stones?

 

[stone-cold11]

Check the physical diameter of the stone. That is in mm. The draw/print a circle of that diameter... If you can see a difference...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 9:44:00 AM
Author: DChokie


Side question: since obviously I don't have these stones in front of me, it's hard to gauge the size differences between my first pick (2.11 carat) and these two alternate stones (2.36 and 2.37). I know we're talking about probably tenths of millimeters here. Will there be any noticeable difference that could justify choosing the larger stones?

Carat weight does not always equate to face up size, with larger diamonds you see less of a difference in MM between these sizes/ weights, go by the diameter measurements of each to get a comparison of physical size rather than weight. Just adding drawing circles out of paper is a method some use but it isn't really accurate as too easy to over/underdraw and add or increase size in advertently.

If there is a Jareds near you go in and see if they have some AGS0 Peerless in the weights and sizes you are considering to get an idea of size variance, alternatively Hearts on Fire if there is a dealer near you.

 

[stone-cold11]

not sure the AGS0 BN stone, but the first stone has about 8.25mm while the JA stone has 8.5mm, so a difference in diameter of about 0.25mm

 

[Lorelei]

but the first stone has about 8.25mm while the JA stone has 8.5mm, so a difference in diameter of about 0.25mm

You would notice a little difference with direct comparison, not so much without.

 

[DChokie]

Date: 7/23/2009 9:46:13 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Check the physical diameter of the stone. That is in mm. The draw/print a circle of that diameter... If you can see a difference...

That''s what I thought...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 9:51:46 AM
Author: DChokie

Date: 7/23/2009 9:46:13 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Check the physical diameter of the stone. That is in mm. The draw/print a circle of that diameter... If you can see a difference...

That's what I thought...

Please be careful doing this and don't take it as an absolute authority on actual size, it will give you a guide but might not be completely accurate.

 

[DChokie]

Don''t worry, I won''t be drawing it out. The thickness of the pen line would be greater than the difference in diameter. I think you''re right - side by side, I might be able to see a difference, but one at a time, it is doubtful.

So, with the size issue out of the way, I''m now focusing on clarity and performance. All three score high on the HCA. Now I''ll just call the retailers and ask for an eyeclean assessment (maybe even drive up to MD to view personally if JA allows it?).

 

[stone-cold11]

JA allows that I think, but you have to make an appointment with them first, IIRC.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 10:02:52 AM
Author: DChokie
Don't worry, I won't be drawing it out. The thickness of the pen line would be greater than the difference in diameter. I think you're right - side by side, I might be able to see a difference, but one at a time, it is doubtful.

So, with the size issue out of the way, I'm now focusing on clarity and performance. All three score high on the HCA. Now I'll just call the retailers and ask for an eyeclean assessment (maybe even drive up to MD to view personally if JA allows it?).

Just wanted to make sure, I got in a heck of a mess years ago trying it and ended up with bits of paper of all different sizes which were meant to be the same size

! So it can give a rough guide but I just wanted to let you know it isn't that accurate.

Yes you can definitely make an appt with JA, I believe they see clients in their NYC offices but ask them if MD is more convenient.

 

[DChokie]

Talked to both BN and JA.

JA (2.37/H/VS2/AGS0) says Idealscope is coming via email, "technicians" will check for eye clean and call me back, and it might be possible for them to ship the diamond to their MD office for a personal viewing (I live in northern VA, so MD would be much closer than NY). Will post Idealscope image once it comes in (could be Monday).

I discussed the two BN diamonds with a guy who was very knowledgeable and forthcoming about his thoughts on the two. (Reminder: I''m stuck between two BN rocks: a 2.36/H/SI1/AGS0 and a 2.11/H/VS2/AGS0, same price). After getting a feel for my personal preferences, he recommended the 2.11 VS2. He said that the .25 difference in diameter equates to a fourth of the thickness of a dime - not noticeable. In contrast, the difference between a VS2 and an SI1 is significant - he says VS2 is the "make-or-break" grade - diamonds of VS2 don''t have plainly perceptable inclusions, while (paraphrasing him) "all SI1s will have perceptable inclusions - you won''t see them in a VS2." I''m a perfectionist, so if I can get a barely smaller size diamond that is much more eye-clean, I''m going to take it. So, the 2.36/SI1 diamond is OUT.

Thoughts on the BN customer service rep''s explanation? Sounds valid? Thoughts as between the JA 2.37 and BN 2.11 stones?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 2:13:57 PM
Author: DChokie
Talked to both BN and JA.

JA (2.37/H/VS2/AGS0) says Idealscope is coming via email, 'technicians' will check for eye clean and call me back, and it might be possible for them to ship the diamond to their MD office for a personal viewing (I live in northern VA, so MD would be much closer than NY). Will post Idealscope image once it comes in (could be Monday).

I discussed the two BN diamonds with a guy who was very knowledgeable and forthcoming about his thoughts on the two. (Reminder: I'm stuck between two BN rocks: a 2.36/H/SI1/AGS0 and a 2.11/H/VS2/AGS0, same price). After getting a feel for my personal preferences, he recommended the 2.11 VS2. He said that the .25 difference in diameter equates to a fourth of the thickness of a dime - not noticeable. In contrast, the difference between a VS2 and an SI1 is significant - he says VS2 is the 'make-or-break' grade - diamonds of VS2 don't have plainly perceptable inclusions, while (paraphrasing him) 'all SI1s will have perceptable inclusions - you won't see them in a VS2.' I'm a perfectionist, so if I can get a barely smaller size diamond that is much more eye-clean, I'm going to take it. So, the 2.36/SI1 diamond is OUT.

Thoughts on the BN customer service rep's explanation? Sounds valid? Thoughts as between the JA 2.37 and BN 2.11 stones?

Not ALL SI1 clarity grades will have visible inclusions, however no guarantee you won't see anything in VS2 either. If VS2 is more what we call mind clean to you then go with VS. I would wait to see what the verdict is on the JA diamond if eyeclean etc then see it for yourself.

 

[stone-cold11]

yap, agree, VS2 is not all eye-clean.

 

[DChokie]

Date: 7/23/2009 2:22:06 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
yap, agree, VS2 is not all eye-clean.

Good to know. Over the phone, I was given the impression that VS2s would pass plain eye inspection, or otherwise they''d be SI1. But I think the more cautious approach is to actually look with your own eye! Hopefully I''ll be able to do that with the JA diamond. Won''t be able to with the BN diamond - but I think that''s ok because the plotting diagram shows no inclusions on the top - just two small ones on the underside.

Any other rocks out there that might fit the bill? ~$20-25k, 2ct+, G-H, VS1-SI1? I was only able to find the BN stones, and stone-cold11 made a great find over at JA.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 2:38:01 PM
Author: DChokie

Date: 7/23/2009 2:22:06 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
yap, agree, VS2 is not all eye-clean.

Good to know. Over the phone, I was given the impression that VS2s would pass plain eye inspection, or otherwise they'd be SI1. But I think the more cautious approach is to actually look with your own eye! Hopefully I'll be able to do that with the JA diamond. Won't be able to with the BN diamond - but I think that's ok because the plotting diagram shows no inclusions on the top - just two small ones on the underside.

Any other rocks out there that might fit the bill? ~$20-25k, 2ct+, G-H, VS1-SI1? I was only able to find the BN stones, and stone-cold11 made a great find over at JA.

NOT necessarily with VS2 especially with these sizes, no real guarantees as there can be too many conflicting factors, some viewers have sharper eyes, expectations, one VS2 might be a " high" VS2 or a low, in which case closer to SI1 so best to evaluate even VS stones carefully.

Here you go

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1466924.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2128406.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2106443.htm

 

[DChokie]

After much waiting (requested it on last Thursday), here is the idealscope. Not thrilled with it. Thoughts? This might seal the deal for the BN stone.