My YR custom experience

[Rfisher]

First of all- YR has lovely peices. I own one. Her stock items are lovely. I felt confident to go custom with her. Unfortunately I asked too much out of her comfort range. I truly feel because of this- none of her sence of style was employed. I don't think she truly had any interest in it. I think of what was said and how it was said was an important factor in my decision to not keep the ring, or re-start from scratch with her. I do know the style I was looking for is not to everyone's tastes- but what I was shown was no where near I requested, nor inspiration peices.
First of all - I purchased this:
10.9x6.84x3.04

I requested a. Silver. Engraving. Black rhodium, I went to black rhodium because she did not want to source black spinel, and black is an important part of what I wanted with this stone.
I sent two inspiration pics:


Black being not on bezel or shank, only design area to offset the stone.
Cad is given in 2 weeks. I should have posted here and asked for help. My fault. I trusted her design sense.
May 16 I was give 6 week delivery time.
June 9 - ring casting is done. Going to engraving. Requested Art Deco-ish/floral. With inspiration pics in mind, I told her to leave specific engraving to them, my fault.
June 30- asked for update. Engraving was done.
July 18 -asked for update. Should be done next week.
I asked black inside engraving or what's not engraved? Answered what is not engraved.
Great!
July 29 posted for sale.

 

[Rfisher]

July 29- she did note black could be made darker.
I replied it looked to have sloppy polish. Yes- black definitely needed to be black.engraving does not look clean.bezel looks overpowering.
Doesn't look like same quality of engraving as on rest of her site.
-she agreed rhodium looks messy. Thinks she will get redone.she needs to wear jewelers lenses to see what I am talking about.pictures are overblown. Inspiration rings have stones glued to them, that's why the bezel is the way it is. To her it looks substantial, good, elegant. She is sorry I saw it that way
she states it the polish as the problem. The rhodium is highlighting the engraving in a bad way. She usually recast, but not using this ring in her collection, so not needed. She is not convinced by black rhodium. It is her its experience. She states not to panic- the next time I see it will be better.
I question that she agrees it looks messy, but Ashe must have felt it to looks acceptable to post it as a finished piece for sale?
I gave her this pic and stated the way the engraving looks like now, it might look he best to color all black like this:

And then included the next picture stating if the black is like this ring, the engraving as it stands will look really bad!

she states she only looked at ring when she took its picture to list it. Was puzzling over it in a way, but at same time just listing it for sale (knocking one thing off my list, so to speak). My order was lost- her fault, she accepts responsibility.
Then we find out that a. Silver cannot take on black rhodium. Neither of us knew. She suggests liver of sulfur- oxidation.
I asked if it will wear off, and will it be black?
July 30
she assures me it will be ok, if I don't like it she will add some black diamonds at her expense
I appreciate her offer- but not yet. We should do test sample. We should rethink and cost out recasting in gold to get proper black. And since recasting, I'd adjust the bezel somehow.

 

[Rfisher]

I asked about with stripping the rhodium and oxidation get, would there be any damage to stone?
I was told no.
Aug - new pics:


I noted not all black. I noted he engraving looking totally different than anything on her site- quality wise. And I'm comparing macro photo to macro, not macro to real life.
she states it is jagged due to the oxidation highlighting the engraving in a bad way. She's never tried this before. Maybe it makes it stand out.
She gives me a link to her engraver
http://alexhandengraving.com/gallery-of-hand-engraved-jewels/page_1/work_125/platinum-engagement-ring.html
See? He does excellent work! Meaning that this ring must be excellent too!
I tell her his engraving on his site is of lovely quality. Unfortunately move of that skill is employed on this ring. Some on his site even have patina.
I ask to try all black again.
she states I may be right about engraving not being the same quality. She will speak to Alex. Maybe he rushed. She has been mulling it over since I pointed it out.she wants it right. She will not let me walk out an unhappy customer.
I ask if telling engraver about intended design of finished ring, would that help? And since she mentioned about not wanting me to leave as an unhappy customer- I state that is we are up front to each other, that this design may not be feasible- I'm ok- let's move on. But if I seem to get shipped a ring with questionable finishing, I'm skeptical. Not happy. I really want this to not look like it came from a craft hobby show.
I state I'm frustrated. She's switching from stating it looks ok to questionable, to looking good again. I'm questioning the stone again if damaged. I point out if she reads all communications consecutively- it's very spotty and disconnected.

 

[GregS]

I looked at the engravers site and your ring, I'd say the quality shown on pieces pictured on his sight matches what is on your ring.

 

[Rfisher]

I appreciate her wanting to make this right, but 2 opposite viewpoints going back and forth, I'm worried. She's telling me I'm too critical of the photos, then agreeing with me that something is off.
she states telling the engraver the intended outcome will help. She s sorry I am frustrated. She is known for speaking direct, but did not realize she might come off as rude. She's sorry I have impression she has two different viewpoints. She is just waffling on what to do next. She doesn't want me to be worried. She won't let me walk away with a bad produce. The insecurity I sense is finding herself in unfamiliar problem and going over possibilities of what makes the ring not look good.
I repeat- more engraving = more black=more good. Plenty of black in inspiration pics.
Oxidizing whole design area is last ditch.
End result is more important than staying true to engraving period.
8/2
I indicate I've done research on liver of sulfur patina. It is too temporary. I doubt engraver can make this ring look anywhere near as lovely as any of her other rings/ his engravings. A lovely interpretation of the two inspiration rings. I state to free the stone from the high wall of bezel. Shaving the engraving off will only accentuate the bezel. Adding melee won't do anything for the design. I doubt I can separate my bad feelings of interactions with this ring. How it was placed for sale poorly executed. Barely inspected. Admitted faults, but also admitted just wanting to mark off of list as done.
8/3
she states natural patina is better. Alex thought the ring would be recast after he engraved it. This was the problem. She didn't know I wanted more black in the design than light. Alex is going to make more 3D. If I still don't like it, she'll refund. She is sorry I believe she wanted to mark it off of her list. Surely I will find no such words in her messages. She felt guilty it took so long, she rushed everybody- it was to be done quickly to my benefit- not hers.
I sent her a screen shot of her exact statement.
she didn't mean to day that. The "so to speak" indicated it. She is sorry.

 

[mtsapphirelovingannie]

I'm sorry you didn't have a good experience.

Did you keep the stone or did YR refund that purchase?

 

[Rfisher]

I did state if she was unwilling to scrap project now, w emended to discuss redoing all together. Black was major component- always.
she agreed with the gold. It is not about money, it's about good work. Let me see if I can make the engraving pleasing.
8/5 new pictures.


I do think the engraving is better. But still think pictures show interior of stone different.
I still think if I were to keep the ring, I would pay for recasting, with some design tweaks to the bezel. I have no ill will towards YR. at all.
I just can't own this ring and have bad feeling about it and how conversations transpired.
she then replied that of all the photos I gave, the one with the stone unset was the nicest. It looks like natural patina. Artificial is too harsh. She prefers no darkening or oxidation of any kind.

So there it goes. As I stated in the show me your YR thread....I offered to pay something for her time/restocking fee. But she refused.
I let an accomplished PSer look at all actual conversations, to help me see if I was overreacting. They said they could see why I was upset.
She's very busy. I don't think she had any interest in doing this, and surely did not employ any of her design /style sense that is so apparent in any of her other pieces.

So I surely hope this is truly my bad luck/decisions/ juju /whatever. Blame me if you will.

 

[theredspinel]

Kudos to Yvonne for trying so hard to make it right. Sometimes things just turn out this way, sucks for you and her and I hope you find a way to get your perfect ring.

 

[royalstarrynight]

I'm so sorry you had such an emotionally taxing experience. It's really frustrating to be promised that something can be done and then only find that it's much more challenging.

it seems like there was some miscommunication between her vendors and her as well. She's also painting what she wants on your ring instead of listening to you, which is unfortunate.

I hope in the end she does right by you and you get what you really want!

 

[Acinom]

Thanks for sharing your story. So sorry you had to go through this.
I hope things will work out fine and you can look happily at the ring in your finger instead of feeling bad vibes because of this bumpy process. Yvonne seemed to have tried a lot to make it right but there was quite some miscommunication as well.

 

[arkieb1]

I am glad you allowed her to put the ring back into stock. A couple of things - the stone doesn't look like the initial glamour photo of it (this has been a gripe of mine for a while now with some, but not all of her stock) and that inner bezel needs to be redone. I like the second lot of engraving a lot more, the pattern is cut a bit deeper so its a bit more 3D, below is a copy of a hand engraved ring made by Victor, he has an amazing engraver, I think you wanted something like that darkened..... Having said that, I've found mostly that Yvonne is a lovely lady who goes out of her way to help everyone and to get the best outcome for her customers.

 

[mochiko42]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I would concur with your opinions. I've bought ready-made pieces, semi-custom pieces and recently had 2 custom pieces made by Yvonne. I think in future I will stick only to ready-made pieces with Yvonne due to some challenges in communicating my design preferences. I think she may be understaffed and misses key info when discussing custom orders, which then snowball into larger issues later in the process, also I would try to double check any specific requests to make 100% sure that you're both on the same page and that the info is passed along to her bench (CAD designer, jeweler, engraver). (Also I always forget that Yvonne only recently become a full-time jewelry vendor, as it is her second career, so some detailed info/terminology may be new to her. E.g. I asked her for a knife-edge band which I thought was a standard term that she would know, but it turned out she did not know the meaning of 'knife-edge', also she thought 'carre cut', 'asscher' and 'princess cut' stones were all the same when we were discussing sidestones.)


She is also direct in her communication, which may come off as a little too direct for some people. (I worked in a German company, and had some German coworkers who were similarly blunt in their style of talking, so I was fine with Yvonne's direct way of communicating. Just mentioning it because someone else mentioned it upthread.)

Having said that, I've found Yvonne to be a lovely seller who does her very best to ensure a good outcome for her customers, and I would not hesitate to buy from her ready-made or stock items.

 

[Rfisher]

Ok- I am back some 9 months later to share my thoughts. I feel it only fair.
Do I advocate throwing good money after bad in some situations? No.
But - if I would have started this project now instead of then, and know then what I know now - I would have been willing to do so.
I would have dropped Etsy communication and picked up the phone when I felt miscommunication happening. But picked it up again for confirmation and written documentation.
I would have re-started from scratch and been more precise with expectations and included examples of what I did not want.
I would not have been so put off by a vendor mistakenly assuming a bench's procedure and it's outcomes. I'd have been a willing participant in a vendors learning curve.
Knowing this before hand I could have rolled with all the other, well, oddities........because in the end you have jewelry!
On that note-
Can I just show you this? Look at the pretty non jagged engraving on the marquis ring for someone else.
Look at the pretty engraving and blackening on someone else's pendant.
Neither are exactly what I asked for- but close.
I don't know if the owners of these peices are on PS. If you are offended I posted them- let me know and I'll remove them. But they prove the vendor can do what I failed attempting.


And yes. I've already told her so.

 

[lilmosun]

Nice retrospective Rfisher.

Funny, when I read your post the first time, I could relate - because it mirrored my experience in working with a different very well respected PS vendor whose pieces I've long admired and others have a great relationship with. Despite this, I would still recommend the vendor for other reasons.

I wish PS had a thread on working with a vendor for the first time especially for custom projects although I assume posting on PS for input is a big help for those who take advantage of the opportunity. Specifics on working different vendors helps those going in blindly - how to best communicate and work with, what they excel at, what you need to specify and what to question. The preferred vendor lists and pictures of their (usually successful) projects are just a start but a lot of the disappoints seem to come from going in with certain expectations because a vendor has been successful with others. Admittedly, I'm less comfortable questioning a new vendor than someone I am comfortable working with.

Just because of vendor has a great reputation and has created beautiful pieces, it doesn't mean they knock it out of the park all the time and/or will automatically create the perfect piece you had in mind. Effective written communications between two strangers adds to the challenge as everyone interprets things from their own perspective. The risk is even higher when you attempt something out of their wheelhouse the first time. The best vendors get it right better than most but that doesn't take away the frustration/disappointment when it's your project that doesn't meet expectations despite efforts from both sides to get it right.

While I've only had great experience working with Yvonne and it's no secret that I'm a big fan. Like any working relationship, it's easier now that when we first started. I am more comfortable in my opinions and questioning her, understand how she works/communicates and we understand each others tastes - where they are the same and where they differ. How we work together has evolved and for me, having a relationship with a vendor who you trust/understand and understands you makes it all worthwhile and is part of the fun.

 

[theredspinel]

Nice retrospective Rfisher.

Funny, when I read your post the first time, I could relate - because it mirrored my experience in working with a different very well respected PS vendor whose pieces I've long admired and others have a great relationship with. Despite this, I would still recommend the vendor for other reasons.

I wish PS had a thread on working with a vendor for the first time especially for custom projects although I assume posting on PS for input is a big help for those who take advantage of the opportunity. Specifics on working different vendors helps those going in blindly - how to best communicate and work with, what they excel at, what you need to specify and what to question. The preferred vendor lists and pictures of their (usually successful) projects are just a start but a lot of the disappoints seem to come from going in with certain expectations because a vendor has been successful with others. Admittedly, I'm less comfortable questioning a new vendor than someone I am comfortable working with.

Just because of vendor has a great reputation and has created beautiful pieces, it doesn't mean they knock it out of the park all the time and/or will automatically create the perfect piece you had in mind. Effective written communications between two strangers adds to the challenge as everyone interprets things from their own perspective. The risk is even higher when you attempt something out of their wheelhouse the first time. The best vendors get it right better than most but that doesn't take away the frustration/disappointment when it's your project that doesn't meet expectations despite efforts from both sides to get it right.

While I've only had great experience working with Yvonne and it's no secret that I'm a big fan. Like any working relationship, it's easier now that when we first started. I am more comfortable in my opinions and questioning her, understand how she works/communicates and we understand each others tastes - where they are the same and where they differ. How we work together has evolved and for me, having a relationship with a vendor who you trust/understand and understands you makes it all worthwhile and is part of the fun.

Agree with every word of this including the thread idea! How about you start it lilmosun?

I love having a few vendor's here that I genuinely like, and trust and feel ok with their prices too. Eternally grateful for having PS which gave me access/exposure to those vendors.

However even those vendors that I truly truly like (love?! Lol) have their negative points and if I ever mention them here it wouldn't be to bad mouth their business or give a negative review.. I'd feel beyond awful for their business to suffer because I have such a good relationship with them, but I don't agree with saying nothing.

If you can help a future newbie out, by making it clear such and such great vendor is great except for doing X for example, I feel morally it's just the correct thing to do.

But then I'm weird. I don't have any blind allegiance to my family, or anyone. If someone does something wrong I can first of all see it (no blind goggles usage here for the people I love) and I feel ok to speak up about it too. Sorry I've totally digressed!

 

[ElisabethRabbit-Browning]

Hi there,
Just wanted to say that this pendant that rfisher posted a pic of is mine, and here are some more pics of it!

It was a lengthy, and very complicated custom project, and I'm pretty fussy about my jewellery.

I feel Yvonne project managed this really well. She showed me high res pictures of the piece after every step, and sought my input/comments, which meant I could request adjustments etc, and a did so. This meant that the project took a long time. And I think this was important for Yvonne to know that I was happy with a long the timeline.

I totally understand that things go differently with different projects and customers. Going on my experience, though, I'd have no hesitation doing another complex project with YR.

I'd have two observations based on my experience:
1. timeframe: a novel custom project can't be done in the same time frame as a standard project. We had to stretch out the timeframe, and be prepared to be flexible when things take longer.
2. Yvonne does genuinely want to find a solution to tricky/new issues, so its worth persisting with your ideas, researching them independently and discussing them with her.

Anyway: I was completely overjoyed with the outcome. The detail is really nice, eg, the way the 'dug out' bits around the raised engraving has been carefully textured by the engraver (Alex). You might be able to see that in one of the pics. Brandy (the lady doing the CAD) seemed to do a good job too.

If it had to do it over, probably the only thing I'd do differently is pick 18K gold over 14K gold, and that was my choice, not Yvonne's. So much effort and care went into this piece that it deserved a higher carat metal.

Apologies if this is not the right thread to post in, mods, I've been a lurker for a while but this is my first post.

Ok- I am back some 9 months later to share my thoughts. I feel it only fair.
Do I advocate throwing good money after bad in some situations? No.
But - if I would have started this project now instead of then, and know then what I know now - I would have been willing to do so.
I would have dropped Etsy communication and picked up the phone when I felt miscommunication happening. But picked it up again for confirmation and written documentation.
I would have re-started from scratch and been more precise with expectations and included examples of what I did not want.
I would not have been so put off by a vendor mistakenly assuming a bench's procedure and it's outcomes. I'd have been a willing participant in a vendors learning curve.
Knowing this before hand I could have rolled with all the other, well, oddities........because in the end you have jewelry!
On that note-
Can I just show you this? Look at the pretty non jagged engraving on the marquis ring for someone else.
Look at the pretty engraving and blackening on someone else's pendant.
Neither are exactly what I asked for- but close.
I don't know if the owners of these peices are on PS. If you are offended I posted them- let me know and I'll remove them. But they prove the vendor can do what I failed attempting.


And yes. I've already told her so.

 

[mochiko42]

Hi there,
Just wanted to say that this pendant that rfisher posted a pic of is mine, and here are some more pics of it!

It was a lengthy, and very complicated custom project, and I'm pretty fussy about my jewellery.

I feel Yvonne project managed this really well. She showed me high res pictures of the piece after every step, and sought my input/comments, which meant I could request adjustments etc, and a did so. This meant that the project took a long time. And I think this was important for Yvonne to know that I was happy with a long the timeline.

I totally understand that things go differently with different projects and customers. Going on my experience, though, I'd have no hesitation doing another complex project with YR.

I'd have two observations based on my experience:
1. timeframe: a novel custom project can't be done in the same time frame as a standard project. We had to stretch out the timeframe, and be prepared to be flexible when things take longer.
2. Yvonne does genuinely want to find a solution to tricky/new issues, so its worth persisting with your ideas, researching them independently and discussing them with her.

Anyway: I was completely overjoyed with the outcome. The detail is really nice, eg, the way the 'dug out' bits around the raised engraving has been carefully textured by the engraver (Alex). You might be able to see that in one of the pics. Brandy (the lady doing the CAD) seemed to do a good job too.

If it had to do it over, probably the only thing I'd do differently is pick 18K gold over 14K gold, and that was my choice, not Yvonne's. So much effort and care went into this piece that it deserved a higher carat metal.

Apologies if this is not the right thread to post in, mods, I've been a lurker for a while but this is my first post.

Thank you for this thoughtful post. Yvonne is one of my favorite vendors and I still recommend her highly.

Your pendant is beautiful! The attention to detail is evident and the design is so pretty. It definitely deserves its own thread with MORE photos Welcome to PS and out of lurk-dom! Hope to see more of your posts in future!

 

[elle_71125]

Hi there,
Just wanted to say that this pendant that rfisher posted a pic of is mine, and here are some more pics of it!

It was a lengthy, and very complicated custom project, and I'm pretty fussy about my jewellery.

I feel Yvonne project managed this really well. She showed me high res pictures of the piece after every step, and sought my input/comments, which meant I could request adjustments etc, and a did so. This meant that the project took a long time. And I think this was important for Yvonne to know that I was happy with a long the timeline.

I totally understand that things go differently with different projects and customers. Going on my experience, though, I'd have no hesitation doing another complex project with YR.

I'd have two observations based on my experience:
1. timeframe: a novel custom project can't be done in the same time frame as a standard project. We had to stretch out the timeframe, and be prepared to be flexible when things take longer.
2. Yvonne does genuinely want to find a solution to tricky/new issues, so its worth persisting with your ideas, researching them independently and discussing them with her.

Anyway: I was completely overjoyed with the outcome. The detail is really nice, eg, the way the 'dug out' bits around the raised engraving has been carefully textured by the engraver (Alex). You might be able to see that in one of the pics. Brandy (the lady doing the CAD) seemed to do a good job too.

If it had to do it over, probably the only thing I'd do differently is pick 18K gold over 14K gold, and that was my choice, not Yvonne's. So much effort and care went into this piece that it deserved a higher carat metal.

Apologies if this is not the right thread to post in, mods, I've been a lurker for a while but this is my first post.

I freaking love this pendant!
I saw it when she posted it on her site and I have been living in jealously ever since. I hope you will start a threat so we can all admire it. I'd love to hear more details (like sizes of the stones) and a shot of on your neck to see how it wears. Must. See. More!!!

 

[Rfisher]

ER-B
Thank you for coming in! Your pendant is beautiful, your pictures show it more so. As you already know, I think you both did a great job. I'm really glad you are ok with me snagging it's photo and putting it here.
I echo the request for its own thread with neck shots and stats. And any more jewelry photos you can share? Love it love it love it!

 

[micellular]

If I may put in my two cents, I don't believe it's entirely fair to compare engravings on gold (or platinum) to that of sterling silver. While I'm not a jeweler, it makes sense to me that metals which have quite different working characteristics can affect what kind of engravings are feasible. I've never seen gold engravings as delicate and detailed as platinum, or silver engravings as delicate and detailed as gold.

 

[Rfisher]

If I may put in my two cents, I don't believe it's entirely fair to compare engravings on gold (or platinum) to that of sterling silver. While I'm not a jeweler, it makes sense to me that metals which have quite different working characteristics can affect what kind of engravings are feasible. I've never seen gold engravings as delicate and detailed as platinum, or silver engravings as delicate and detailed as gold.

Good question. I don't know.

 

[ElisabethRabbit-Browning]

Hi everyone, thank you all for the kind reception. I will definitely post some more pics on an appropriate thread. Its raining today in Sydney so I'll wait for some proper sunshine

I also second the suggestion of lilmosun & redspinel about working with vendors for the first time. Its incredibly helpful to newbs like me and I reckon it makes things easier for the vendors too.

 

[Seaglow]

I think it depends apart from the material, is on what metal the engraver is used to. There are some fantastic silver engravings in Asia but most metalsmiths in the region cannot even forge in platinum.

Pictured are silver works done in Chiang Mai.

 

[wordie89]

Seaglow, wow! On the engraved purses and clutches. ERB. Lovely, lovely necklace. RF thank you for sharing your custom design experience. It's a little like my current bath project but more so. I had forgotten all the details and decisions and confusion communicating with the vendor .

 

[Burmesedaze]

I think it depends apart from the material, is on what metal the engraver is used to. There are some fantastic silver engravings in Asia but most metalsmiths in the region cannot even forge in platinum.

Pictured are silver works done in Chiang Mai.

Love those purses! How much are they? Yes. The metalsmiths in Myanmar can't work with platinum and only a small segment can handle white and rose gold.

 

[Seaglow]

Love those purses! How much are they? Yes. The metalsmiths in Myanmar can't work with platinum and only a small segment can handle white and rose gold.

The bronze and silver factories are in Chiang Mai. The purses are usually around USD500-1000 925 silver depending on size and intricacy of design. They also weave silver in bags and belts. Some incorporates cabochon gemstones in the design. Some enamel. The carved silver and enamel combo can be very pretty in jewelry.