My package was signed for but it is now missing

[mango]

Thanks for all the info on Pricescope. I really learned a lot and it helped me shop for diamond earrings. But tonight, I''m devastated. I ordered and pre-paid for a pair of loose diamonds from Blue Nile. The package arrived by FedEx today and was received and signed for by the front desk of my building (I live in Manhattan), but when I tried to pick them up, the package is missing. I called Blue Nile and they said the box is plain and doesn''t have their name on the package, they will see what Fed Ex will say about it since someone other than me signed for it. But I am not optimistic that the box will be found or that I will be able to recover any losses. Probably either someone was given my box by mistake and kept it, or it was just plain stolen. I''m really upset. Any advice out there would be greatly appreciated. Does anyone have any advice or any experience about bad outcomes like this.

M

 

[niceice]

Ouch! You have our condolences... The odds are that Blue Nile's responsibility and the insurance assigned to the package terminated upon signature delivery of the package since you instructed them to ship the package to a general delivery station at your building. No way for us to know for sure, but that's our guess. Not that it does you any good now, but perhaps it will in the future, next time have the package shipped to a staffed Fed Ex location for 'station hold' where it will remain in the Fed Ex system until you are able to pick it up and sign for it. Fed Ex will usually hold a package for a few days...

 

[Bagpuss]

Can't you find out who signed for the package and what they did with it?

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/6/2003 10:24:29 PM niceice wrote:

Ouch! You have our condolences... The odds are that Blue Nile's responsibility and the insurance assigned to the package terminated upon signature delivery of the package since you instructed them to ship the package to a general delivery station at your building. blockquote>


Ouch! Sadly, NiceIce may be correct.

Doesn't Blue Nile have some responsibility in telling Mango about the risk of general delivery? Were the earrings insured on your end? Sometimes insurance policies will have blanket coverage up to 1k on "stolen" jewelry w/o scheduling.

I would not be resigned to your loss. Be the squeaky wheel & do your own investigating! Good luck!

 

[diamondlil]

If the package was signed for by your building's front desk, don't they have some responsibility for taking care of your package until you take posssession? I wonder if there is any type of liability insurance for such a loss. Dig deeper Mango!

Diamondlil

 

[mango]

Thanks for your responses everybody. I really appreciate it since I've been feeling so terrible. The package was handled routinely, the person signed for it then put it in the holding area and no one can account for why its missing, and I have to see if anyone can be held accountable. We checked with all the tenants who received packages yesterday, but no leads. The building's security has been notified and a report is being filed, its doubtful they will have any insurance coverage for this type of thing (we had no insurance on it yet). I had a shred of hope that an honest person would turn it in...

Anyway, thank you for your kind support everyone. It takes a little bit of the sadness away. Hope it never happens again to anyone living in doormen buildings.
M

 

[Mara]

Blue Nile should have marked the package signable only by yourself or have it sent to a FedEx holding facility...esp on something so expensive. I can't believe that they would let someone else sign for your package. I buy things online all the time and even random companies like Red Envelope and sometimes Pottery Barn don't let my neighbor or anyone sign for the package even if I approve it over the phone....depending on the amount of the order. I'm really surprised that such a large co like BN doesn't have this, esp for items of jewelry?? I would try finding out more information from them and what their 'general' policies are--maybe you can work something out where they can cover half and you pay the other half to get new stones...ugh what a horrible situation.




Does anyone hold the doorman responsible for signing? What sort of authority does he have and why aren't packages put in a special area that only certain people have access to?




How horrible!

I'm so upset for you. Good luck with any recourse.

 

[mango]

Just some updates. The building might have some liability insurance that I will try for. I am going to meet with the head of the security dept tomorrow am. I also tried AMEX's insurance. They said that their Buyer's insurance program covers up to $1000, however since I had not notified or given permission to the front desk to sign for the package, I do not qualify for the coverage at all.

We will check into FEDEX liability, since they let someone other than me sign for it.

I totally agree with you that Blue Nile should have explained the risks of delivery at the time I made the order. Also wrong to let someone else other than me sign for this package.

Thanks again for your support and helpful comments.

M

 

[derekinla]

Maybe some of the lawyers can chime in with some advice? Ben Affleck... I mean Lawgem?

It seems to me that the building, and the people signing for packages and supposedly securing them in a safe place have an obligation to provide that service without losing packages. I smell a lawsuit....

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 10/7/2003 3:11:52 PM derekinla wrote:





Maybe some of the lawyers can chime in with some advice? Ben Affleck... I mean Lawgem?

It seems to me that the building, and the people signing for packages and supposedly securing them in a safe place have an obligation to provide that service without losing packages. I smell a lawsuit....
----------------

Major bummer, Mango. You have my sympathies.

I'm not licensed to practice in NY, so I can't answer this one directly, even were it within my speciality (and it's not). However, I believe this sort of thing is a fairly established area of law, so an experienced tort lawyer ought to be able to give a quick answer.

 

[aljdewey]

Having worked for a freight company previously, I can tell you that you should definitely press the issue with FedEx.




The package was addressed to you. Check with BN and find out what their shipping documents specified regarding alternate signatures. If they didn't authorize it, then FedEx is obligated to get YOUR signature. If they are unable to, it is up to them to leave a note for you that they attempted to deliver a package and couldn't reach you so you can make alternate arrangements. You may have a valid claim against FedEx.




If the doorman told FedEx that he was authorized the sign for it, then the doorman should be held liable for the loss.

 

[Mara]

Yes I agree with AL....I know that alot of times I can't even get FedEx and other co's to leave items for me if I don't have an authorized signature on file with them that YES I take responsibility for that. It may be different because of the doorman issue and the 'protected building', but also BN should have marked on the slip that NO ONE should sign but you--esp for such an expensive purchase. And what about the insurance from BN...doesnt that only apply if YOU sign for the box?




I have had companies tell me that they do this for my protection so that sometimes EVEN if I have an auth signature on file with FE or another co...they will not leave it regardless, because the company told them not to. So there were different touchpoints on where the screwup happened...BN should have said it should only be released to you, you should have thought about where and when the delivery would come and confirmed with BN, FedEx should not have released it to your doorman unless there was authorization from you in the past to do that....there are alot of 'should have's' that didn't happen. Unfortunate...hope that you get some recourse!

 

[fire&ice]

I don't know. Certainly worth pursuing. What consitutes "authorized agent"? Does the doorman normally sign for packages? I don't know; but, it's not out of the realm of possiblities that this is a normal function of his business.

Actually, I fault BN. And, BN should take it up w/ Fedex. They, BN, paid for the shipping.

That said, how secure is the holding area? Does it have a lock? Seems like the building could be liable.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/7/2003 6:18:50 PM fire&ice wrote:


That said, how secure is the holding area? Does it have a lock? Seems like the building could be liable.
----------------

Mmmmm......that depends. Oftentimes, buildings like this accept packages as a courtesy service to the occupants but specify that they aren't liable for loss/damage.




Is the building contractually responsible to provide these services? If they are, then perhaps they are liable. If they aren't, and they do so only as a courtesy, then you may have a harder time.




If there is no specification, and the doorman took it upon himself to sign for it, then he and/or building could be liable, I suspect.

 

[Jax172]

Did you sign a waiver when you moved in that allowed the desk to sign for your packages? The apartments I have lived in have made us sign such a document. The document also usually states that they are not liable for any missing or stolen packages.

I do hope that this is not the case for you and that you get the package or money back.

 

[fire&ice]

Doormen perform a different function than many other "apartment" "offices".

As Lawgem said, I'm sure this isn't the first time this has come up. Perhaps there is an on-line "quick question" lawyer forum.

My point: please don't give up w/o pursuing this. You may be able to get some restitution from someone.

I'm glad this is in the archives. My business partner ships items to me. His private insurance bares the burden of delivering to *me* safely. I still point the finger at BN. Was BN responsible to let you know your shipping options/risks? Please make sure you let us know what transpires.

But, most of all, Good Luck!

 

[Kay]

----------------
On 10/7/2003 6:05:13 PM aljdewey wrote:


Having worked for a freight company previously, I can tell you that you should definitely press the issue with FedEx.


The package was addressed to you. Check with BN and find out what their shipping documents specified regarding alternate signatures. If they didn't authorize it, then FedEx is obligated to get YOUR signature. If they are unable to, it is up to them to leave a note for you that they attempted to deliver a package and couldn't reach you so you can make alternate arrangements. You may have a valid claim against FedEx.


If the doorman told FedEx that he was authorized the sign for it, then the doorman should be held liable for the loss.
----------------

I agree with Al, too. I am not licensed to practice law in NY and this is not my specialty, but I have had similar delivery problems in the past (with much less expensive items). A few questions:

1) Did you verbally or in writing authorize Blue Nile or Fed Ex to deliver the package to anyone other than you personally?

2) Have you ever signed anything authorizing the doorman or anyone else who works for the building to accept packages for you, or is there any provision to this effect in your lease? (In other words, is there anything in writing the doorman could have shown the delivery person stating you allow packages to be accepted on your behalf?)

If the answer to both of those questions is no, then Blue Nile and/or Fed Ex should be responsible for delivering the box to someone other than you. You should insist that Blue Nile, as the shipper, institute a claim on your behalf with Fed Ex for delivering your package to a non-authorized signatory. When I had a similar problem (package delivered to a neighbor who moved out of the apartment builidng a few days later & before I found out that's who signed for my late/missing package) the shipper sent me a free replacement and filed a claim for reimbursement with UPS. If Blue Nile will not issue a credit to your account, then you should write to your credit card company to dispute the charge on the basis that you never received the merchandise paid for (usually must be done within 60 days of the date of the statement on which the charge appears).

You (or BN or Fed Ex if they reimburse you) may also have a claim against the doorman or building for failing to properly safeguard a package they accepted on your behalf. Check with a NY attorney -- they may have assumed a duty to exercise reasonable care when they accepted the package. Have you ever signed a liability release in order for the building to accept your packages? If so, you probably have no claim against the building. My last apartment complex asked me to sign a document saying they had no responsibility for any loss or damage to packages they accepted on my behalf. I refused to sign and told them not to accept any packages for me -- I would prefer to get a note on my door from Fed Ex/UPS/USPS that they tried to deliver a package so I can make my own arrangements for pick-up.

Pursue your claims vigorously -- you should not be responsible unless you authorized the doorman to accept packages and signed a release of liability. Given the value of the package, it may be appropriate to file a police report.

Good luck & let us know what happens.

 

[Caratz]

Am I the only one on this thread who thinks the building manager is liable? C'mon! Someone signed for it -- and nobody can explain what happened after that? Sounds to me like a slam dunk case against the building manager.

 

[niceice]

We place stickers on our residential packages that are provided by Fed Ex which prohibit indirect delivery... Stickers are also available which restrict delivery to the named recipient only.

But we have to ask... Did you instruct Blue Nile to ship the package to your residence knowing that the package would be signed for and accepted by a general delivery person? If you're like most of our NYC clients who live in apartment buildings, you did... It is a fair assumption that your building would employ honest people, but who knows?

Did you advise that person that you were expecting a valuable or important package prior to the package being delivered? So many people make this mistake... We've had Fed Ex security tell us that drivers have called to inquire about 'a package containing a diamond' which was supposed to be on their truck (held up by weather or a missed plane, etc.) but we can tell you that there is no faster way to lose a package...

Don't answer our questions here... We're not asking these questions for you to answer them, we're asking them to make people 'think' about how they handle the delivery of their packages... That way at least this unfortunate situation can have a positive effect in the future.

 

[mango]

These are all the important issues and everyone's comments are very useful, thanks so much.

We are filing a police report today. The head of security is investigating. Actually we don't have a typical "doorman." We have security guards at the front desk, hired by the institution that owns the building, so it turns out the manager isn't liable. Liability may rest with the institution. Alternatively, FedEX may be liable, since BN said they required it to be delivered to me and no one else. I don't know if the FedEx box was stickered like NiceIce mentioned or not. I never signed a waiver allowing the front desk to sign packages, nor did I instruct them to watch for a valuable package. In the meantime I will be writing to Amex that I am in dispute of the charges and filing papers with FedEx. We are also in touch with BN. They have been so far very supportive and they are trying to push the issue with FedEx, if this is working I cannot tell yet.

I will let you know what happens.

M

 

[fire&ice]

Big Bells are going off in my head. Can Blue Nile *prove* that they ordered Fedex to have only *you* sign?

I'm sorry - I would jump all over Blue Nile. They initiated the shipping. It was their responsiblity to make it clear to Fedex about delivery. Maybe I am unclear as to their involvement. But, all you mention is cooperation. They should be iniating & pushing the claim.

Yes, good you alerted amex about the dispute. Let BN know the funds will not be released until you have resolution. The two parties with the most to loose are you & BN with BN having the most clout w/ Fedex.

Good luck.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/8/2003 10:30:50 AM fire&ice wrote:

I'm sorry - I would jump all over Blue Nile. They initiated the shipping. It was their responsiblity to make it clear to Fedex about delivery.

----------------

Didn't she state above that Blue Nile DID specify that it was to be delivered to the addressee only? That makes it FedEx's problem.....entirely!

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/8/2003 11:00:05 AM aljdewey wrote:

----------------
On 10/8/2003 10:30:50 AM fire&ice wrote:

I'm sorry - I would jump all over Blue Nile. They initiated the shipping. It was their responsiblity to make it clear to Fedex about delivery.

----------------

Didn't she state above that Blue Nile DID specify that it was to be delivered to the addressee only? That makes it FedEx's problem.....entirely!

----------------

No, that's just it, a statement by BN isn't enough in my opinion. Where's the proof? Whose problem it is isn't the question. It's who can *resolve* the issue. BN has to push the issue w/ Fedex. If they indeed made the receipient clear, they need to take the issue up w/ Fedex. Mango doesn't have her jewelry. At this moment, BN doesn't have the money. Fedex isn't out anything right now. And, BN certainly has more clout to pursue w/ Fedex - if appropriate blame is proven. In issues like this one *has to* pursue the money. It's the only thing that gets things done.

 

[fire&ice]

Isn't the bottom line question - who contracted w/ Fedex for safe delivery? And subsequent question, what precautions were *specified* by BN for safe delivery?

Mango may have "reimbursed" BN for shipping. But, more than likely, BN is the client.

The reason why individuals do not use Fedex is because they will only insure jewelry up to 500.00. Most shippers who use fedex carry private "shipper's insurance". One would believe that BN has private insurance for this package. BN would have to make a claim w/ their insurance co. & the insurance company would go after Fedex. In the past, this is what has happened.

Edited to add: I believe the ball is in BN's court. Now, I have no legal knowledge on how Mango can pursue BN.

How much money are we talking about? Any money lost is alot to *that* person; but, it may be a drop in the bucket to BN or BN's insurance company.

 

[MikeyG]

I agree with the comment that the person who signed for it should be liable. By that person signing their name they agreee to make sure that the package got to you.

MikeyG

 

[Mara]

The problem with the person signing for it being liable is that they are just an employee--how hard would it be to get the money from the guard or security company who signed them...rather than getting it from FedEx if they should not have given anyone the package but you? FE is more of a straight shot in my opinion.




I definitely agree that you should dispute the charge with AMEX....they are GREAT about that kind of thing. I would call and let them know that you are going to dispute the charge and then follow up with a letter.




Good luck!

 

[fire&ice]

The bottom line is that there is *an* answer.

Have amex hold the funds.

Pursue all involved.

Mango is not fedex's client. But, you can find out exactly what time & who signed for the package. Get the tracking bill, etc. Was the packaged delivered to your address & lost afterwards?

IMO, the ball is in BN's court to prove that they specified signature delivery to receipient only.

Be very proactive - align w/ all - side w/ none -until you have all the facts & clear path of "blame/negligence".

Best of all, good luck.

 

[derekinla]

----------------
On 10/8/2003 6:28:29 PM fire&ice wrote:

The bottom line is that there is *an* answer.

Have amex hold the funds.

Pursue all involved.

Mango is not fedex's client. But, you can find out exactly what time & who signed for the package. Get the tracking bill, etc. Was the packaged delivered to your address & lost afterwards?

IMO, the ball is in BN's court to prove that they specified signature delivery to receipient only.

Be very proactive - align w/ all - side w/ none -until you have all the facts & clear path of 'blame/negligence'.

Best of all, good luck. ----------------

Great advice! Succinct, yet the post really highlights the important principles with which you should pursue corrective action. Keep us informed!!!

 

[mango]

Some updates. BN states that their insurance SHOULD cover it (as was mentioned in a previous post, BN had insurance beyond FedEx's) -- if we get a statement that the building allows FedEx to come upstairs to a tenant's apartment. Since their delivery policy is to allow signatures only from the specific buyer. The FedEx person didn't follow the instructions of BN and just asked for the front desk signature without trying to deliver it to my apartment. We were able to get that policy in a written letter from the head of security and will send this to BN. I hope this will resolve the matter quickly. If this doesn't work then we will be left with trying to get coverage through the building's insurance, since it was lost/stolen after it was signed for. Security is doing an investigation, its clear who signed for it but then there was a change of shift and its not clear how it got stolen.

Thanks for all the support. I'll keep you posted.

M

 

[niceice]

Hey M, we had a thought (oooh, amazing!) check your PM... And yes, 'everybody' else has to wait on this one for just a little bit.