My Niece Is Getting Married

[AGBF]

My niece is getting married on Saturday, April 5. She just told us the news a few days ago. Since I often have trouble with the opening post of a new thread, I will tell you more about this later. Here is a link to a thread in which I mentioned her previously, however. She is now 25 and living in Connecticut.

My niece...[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/teaching-english-overseas.184047/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/teaching-english-overseas.184047/[/URL]

Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

As I said, I wanted to add more information about my niece's upcoming wedding. That she is getting married is not a surprise; that she is getting married in a few days is a surprise. We (her family) knew that she was finally able to get together with the man with whom she had fallen in love while living in Spain, but we had not been told that he was here on a fiancé visa. We knew that the two of them were dedicated to each other, but not that he had proposed or that any actual plans for marriage had been made.

They met in Spain while she was a teaching assistant there. Spanish was a second language for both of them. She speaks English, Italian, and Spanish. He is from Senegal and speaks Wolof, French, and Spanish. The summer after her second year working in Spain she went to Senegal (without him) with Habitat for Humanity (for which she had volunteered in the US) and practiced the Wolof her boyfriend had taught her. She said that in Senegal people were not used to a white woman speaking Wolof; usually if white women could speak one of the languages of Senegal, it was French. My niece speaks no French. (Yet!)

So they had one language in common, Spanish, although it is not a language spoken by either of their families. But she is a religious Catholic and he is a Muslim. (I have been reading about Senegal and an increasing number of the Senegalese population is becoming Muslim.) When we had dinner out together a few weeks ago, I shared my virgin piña colada with him. He does not drink alcohol and I, also, do not. I don't think he had ever had one before but we agreed we both like noix de coco and ananas!

At any rate, the civil ceremony this week will be followed by two religious ceremonies: one in a mosque and one in my niece's Roman Catholic church. She will not be allowed to have a mass, but she will be allowed to be married in her church. For her, not getting married in the religious way is a sacrifice. For someone else it would not be.

I have already heard some people make disparaging remarks about this marriage, but one of the remarks was-of course-that he is marrying my niece for a green card. I think the poor man is terrified of being in this country! He already made one huge leap by going from Senegal to Spain! I don't think he would ever have done this if he didn't really love my niece! I think he is being very brave about being here!

And 37 years ago one of my friends-a male-told me he thought my husband was marrying me for a green card!! I guess he didn't figure out that once he got it he could have gotten a divorce!!! (Think I should tell him?)

Deb/AGBF

 

[AprilBaby]

Congratulations ? I hope?

Sounds like a lot of obstacles to overcome. Wishing them the best!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think April Baby said it well. I do wish them the best. But the example I know of that was similar to that did not end well. I hope they are both very clear on what their expectations are for marriage.

 

[Indylady]

Congratulations!

Are there obstacles? Sure. But I have friends that have divorced with far more commonalities--my first thought when I read it was that it sounds awfully romantic to fall in love in a second language. Best wishes!

 

[klewis]

Congratulations indeed! I think it sounds like a wonderful cultural and religious masala. Thinking a little in the future, their children, if they have any, are going to be blessed with a wonderfully interesting religious education.

Are you attending the wedding?

 

[VRBeauty]

My parents were raised in two different cultures and two different religions. My father pretty much gave up his prior life when he married my mother. There were some cross-cultural acceptance problems... reading between the lines, I believe they had a lot to do with my immediate family emigrating to the U.S. when I was still very young. That said, my parents have been married almost 60 years now, and they have four great kids to show for it! I wish your niece and her fiance much happiness.

 

[movie zombie]

sometimes obstacles are in the eyes of the beholders,,,,,,,,and are mere inconveniences for those in the relationship. while love does not conquer all, it does go a long ways in providing the motivation to overcome obstacles, real and/or imagined.

I wish them well and I wish them joy and happiness. and I hope no one ruins "their day" on Saturday!

 

[LLJsmom]

Congrats to your niece AGBF. It's her life. Other's opinions don't really matter. Best of luck to them.

 

[AGBF]

Congratulations indeed! I think it sounds like a wonderful cultural and religious masala. Thinking a little in the future, their children, if they have any, are going to be blessed with a wonderfully interesting religious education.

Are you attending the wedding?

I am going to attend the first wedding and am honored to have been asked. Originally my niece had planned only to have her parents attend, since the ceremony was only to make the marriage official. My brother told me that she then felt she couldn't leave out her beloved grandmother who had lived within a stone's throw of her as she grew up and whom she had seen every day of her life. (My niece is now certified to teach high school Spanish and Italian and is teaching Spanish at a high school in Connecticut. She is living in her parents' house again, as is her boyfriend.) Once she decided to ask her grandmother to the civil ceremony she felt she wanted to ask her only other grandparent, whom she also loves deeply, my father. My brother could have driven down two hours to pick up our father to take him to the wedding, but it was certainly easier to have me bring him up. My niece is close to me and to her maternal uncles, one of whom is her godfather. So the civil ceremony became: her parents; her two remaining grandparents; two of her three uncles (one lives in California); her one aunt; and one cousin (my daughter). No spouses of aunt or uncles are coming nor are the other numerous cousins. They will all be invited to the "real" wedding as will other, important relatives (of whom there are many). I must say that she certainly has the support of her family as she embarks on this marriage. My brother, who studied French in school (and forgot it) has been learning a bit of Spanish from visiting his daughter in Spain while she was there. His wife does even a bit better than he does. And my niece's fiancé is enrolled in an intensive English course. I have no doubt at all that there will be children! The marriage will be in English and Spanish. I am betting the children will be both adorable and multi-lingual as well as very well nurtured. My niece is a real peach. Her high school students love her and her pre-school students in Spain did, too.

Deb

 

[rosetta]

Wishing the absolute best to the both of them!

The last wedding I attended was between my husband's british born indian friend and the bride was born and bred in China, they fell in love when she came to study here. They had their first child recently.

 

[JewelFreak]

I'm so glad you & the family are happy about the marriage, Deb! It sounds like she knows her fiance well & knows what she's doing. Many people marry with less. If they're flexible & compassionate with each other, it sounds super. I love the bi-lingual or tri-lingual possibility for children, being a lover of language myself -- it opens the mind as nothing else can.

DH & I came from vastly different backgrounds -- I didn't realize how far apart until after we were married -- starting with different countries. 36 years later, we're still hanging in. (I always tell him that if he isn't nice to me they'll take away his green card. Even though he knows better, it feels good. )

It sounds like a lovely family gathering for a happy occasion. I know you'll enjoy it -- and I wish the very best for your niece & husband!

--- Laurie

 

[chrono]

Congrats on the upcoming wedding.

I am sorry to bring up religious questions in your thread and hope you won't mind too much. As far as I know, anyone a Muslim marries must also convert to the Muslim faith and all their children must be Muslim as well. I presume your niece and her husband-to-be must have discussed this and come to an agreement?

 

[missy]

Congratulations to the both of them Deb. As others have said while love does not conquer all it certainly provides strong motivation to work together and make for a happy and successful marriage. Wishing them all the best.

Having someone by your side whom you love dearly and who loves you dearly to partner through life with (in health and sickness and for better and worse) is truly a gift. So while any happy marriage (or successful partnership) takes work I can think of no relationship more rewarding.

 

[AGBF]

Congrats on the upcoming wedding.

I am sorry to bring up religious questions in your thread and hope you won't mind too much. As far as I know, anyone a Muslim marries must also convert to the Muslim faith and all their children must be Muslim as well. I presume your niece and her husband-to-be must have discussed this and come to an agreement?

Please do not be sorry, Chrono. I know that you are not bringing up religion as a topic to be discussed, but only in the context of this thread and I also know that you are bringing it up in a thoughtful manner. I, like you, will honor the Pricescope policy of not discussing "religion" and only discuss religion in the context of this specific marriage.

Although this is a highly personal topic, I believe that my niece is someone who took a pledge to remain a virgin until she was married within the context of her Roman Catholic faith. This has been the subject of great hilarity among certain family members who should never have learned of it. While I have no way of knowing, I believe that my niece is probably entering into her marriage a virgin. From what I have read about Senegal, the only acceptable avenue for sexual relations and procreation is marriage, be it monogamous, polygamous, or endogamous (within the family). In other words, I believe that a Senegalese man does not expect a woman to have relations outside of marriage. I also read that a woman must consent to whether the marriage will be monogamous or polygamous.

My brother, who was raised in a very liberal home and in the Unitarian faith, got married in the Roman Catholic Church and pledged to have his children raised as Roman Catholics because he loved his wife and it was important to her. I think it may have been one of the reasons why they were together for so long before they decided to marry. It was hard for him to swallow that. Once he did, however, he was everlastingly faithful to his word and cheerful about his obligations. He often (although not always) accompanied his wife and two daughters to church and celebrated every rite of passage with great enthusiasm. He never questioned the doctrine of the Catholic Church. His older daughter, as I stated, remained very religious. His younger daughter allowed herself to be confirmed in her faith to please her mother but said she felt, "more like a Buddhist". She is living in Los Angeles now and could not come home for Christmas because of a high pressure job in the film industry. My brother, being a wonderful dad, went out to spend Christmas with her in LA. Besides setting up a real Christmas tree and making lasagna together, they went to a Unitarian Church service on Christmas Eve instead of a Catholic one. (My younger niece is now over 21 and can ask for what she wants.)

I suspect that my older niece and her fiancé have come to a decision about how they will handle religion and how to raise the children, although they are not sharing it with anyone else. Their solution probably does not fit the strictest doctrine of the Muslim faith...not that there is only one interpretation of that anyway. And, as I said, she already broke the rules of her Roman Catholic Church by deciding to marry before church counseling and a church mass.

Deb/AGBF

 

[chrono]

Deb,
Thank you for understanding the spirit in which I asked the question and you've answered it perfectly well enough to assuage my curiousity and concern.

 

[Trekkie]

Deb,
Thank you for understanding the spirit in which I asked the question and you've answered it perfectly well enough to assuage my curiousity and concern.

If I may be so bold, this was beautifully asked and answered. If only we could always be this polite and respectful on PS! Yes, I know I'm often far from respectful too...

If I may chime in with my 2c... Traditionally, a Muslim woman may only marry a Muslim man. A Muslim man may marry any woman who is "of the book", in other words, a Christian or Jewish woman. The wife may follow her religion but traditionally, their children would be raised as Muslim.

It's not as scary as it may sound - Islam incorporates the Old Testament as well as the New. I remember growing up with my Muslim gran telling me stories about Nabi Musa and Nabi Isa, only to realise when I started religious instruction at school (still compulsory in my day) that they were actually Moses and Jesus!

Congratulations Deb on your niece's upcoming marriage! I always smile when I hear of interracial couples getting married. I think this might be due to growing up with a coloured parent and a white parent in Apartheid South Africa, at a time when interracial relationships were a criminal offence.

They sound like a wonderful young couple and I wish them everything of the best for their upcoming marriage.

 

[AGBF]

I remember growing up with my Muslim gran telling me stories about Nabi Musa and Nabi Isa, only to realise when I started religious instruction at school (still compulsory in my day) that they were actually Moses and Jesus!

...​

I always smile when I hear of interracial couples getting married. I think this might be due to growing up with a coloured parent and a white parent in Apartheid South Africa, at a time when interracial relationships were a criminal offence.

Thank you for sharing some of your own story, Trekkie. I very much enjoy it when members do that. Your story sounds fascinating and I would love to hear more about your life. I also thank you for your good wishes.

Hugs,
Deb

 

[Dancing Fire]

Deb, Congrats to your niece ..

 

[Trekkie]

I remember growing up with my Muslim gran telling me stories about Nabi Musa and Nabi Isa, only to realise when I started religious instruction at school (still compulsory in my day) that they were actually Moses and Jesus!

...​

I always smile when I hear of interracial couples getting married. I think this might be due to growing up with a coloured parent and a white parent in Apartheid South Africa, at a time when interracial relationships were a criminal offence.

Thank you for sharing some of your own story, Trekkie. I very much enjoy it when members do that. Your story sounds fascinating and I would love to hear more about your life. I also thank you for your good wishes.

Hugs,
Deb

Thank you, Deb! I don't think my story is particularly fascinating and every year I meet more and more people who have parents who are of two different races, but they tend to be much, much younger than I am. When I was born it was still illegal - if they had been caught my father and mother would have faced five and four years of jail time, respectively. My father might even have been deported to England. Bizarrely, they would have been charged under something known as the Immorality Act. Can you believe that that?

My father is white - just a regular ol' Englishman born in England to an Irish mother and English father. My mother was coloured (mixed Bushman, Xhosa and Scots), but her mother was informally adopted by a large Cape Malay family as a child, so I grew up with dozens of Cape Malay cousins. When I was a child, I was allowed to go out in public with either my mother or my father but never both. I could use the "whites only" amenities, but my mother was only allowed to watch. I didn't quite realise this at the time, only years later. Isn't it funny how some things we experience as children only make sense years later?

Luckily that's all passed now and as I said, I encounter more and more people like me all the time.

I do hope I have managed to answer your questions but if not, I would be happy to answer any direct questions you might have!

 

[AGBF]

I do hope I have managed to answer your questions but if not, I would be happy to answer any direct questions you might have!

Thank you for sharing more, Trekkie. I would like to ask one more question. If it was not legal for your parents to marry, how did they do it? Did they marry outside of South Africa? Or was record keeping still in its infancy? Was a couple able to get married without the bureaucracy finding out that every marriage that had taken place had taken place? I mean, could the left hand (marriages) keep the right hand (racial law enforcement) from knowing what it was doing in those days?

Deb/AGBF

 

[AGBF]

Deb, Congrats to your niece ..

Thank you, DF.

Deb

 

[AGBF]

Congratulations to the both of them Deb. As others have said while love does not conquer all it certainly provides strong motivation to work together and make for a happy and successful marriage. Wishing them all the best.

Having someone by your side whom you love dearly and who loves you dearly to partner through life with (in health and sickness and for better and worse) is truly a gift. So while any happy marriage (or successful partnership) takes work I can think of no relationship more rewarding.

Thanks very much, missy.

Hugs,
Deb

 

[Roxy]

Congratulations Deb!!
What an honor to have been invited and I appreciate your starting this thread and sharing the celebration with us.

 

[AGBF]

Congratulations Deb!!
What an honor to have been invited and I appreciate your starting this thread and sharing the celebration with us.

That is so sweet of you! Thank you very much, Roxy!

Hugs,
Deb

 

[Trekkie]

I do hope I have managed to answer your questions but if not, I would be happy to answer any direct questions you might have!

Thank you for sharing more, Trekkie. I would like to ask one more question. If it was not legal for your parents to marry, how did they do it? Did they marry outside of South Africa? Or was record keeping still in its infancy? Was a couple able to get married without the bureaucracy finding out that every marriage that had taken place had taken place? I mean, could the left hand (marriages) keep the right hand (racial law enforcement) from knowing what it was doing in those days?

Deb/AGBF

Hi Deb

My parents didn't marry.

In South Africa at the time, your race was indicated as part of your ID number (similar to the social security number in the US). If you were white your ID number ended in 00, Cape Coloured 01, Cape Malay 02 and so on, so as soon as you presented identification, it was very easy to see that two people shouldn't marry. Some church ministers went rogue and "married" couples but these marriages were not registered and therefore not really legal.

Some people married in the neighbouring Botswana, but it was considered very dangerous to do so. If an interracial couple was caught having sex, they could still talk/bribe their way out of jail time. Marriage? Not so easy...

 

[AGBF]

I do hope I have managed to answer your questions but if not, I would be happy to answer any direct questions you might have!

Thank you for sharing more, Trekkie. I would like to ask one more question. If it was not legal for your parents to marry, how did they do it? Did they marry outside of South Africa? Or was record keeping still in its infancy? Was a couple able to get married without the bureaucracy finding out that every marriage that had taken place had taken place? I mean, could the left hand (marriages) keep the right hand (racial law enforcement) from knowing what it was doing in those days?

Hi Deb

My parents didn't marry.

In South Africa at the time, your race was indicated as part of your ID number (similar to the social security number in the US). If you were white your ID number ended in 00, Cape Coloured 01, Cape Malay 02 and so on, so as soon as you presented identification, it was very easy to see that two people shouldn't marry. Some church ministers went rogue and "married" couples but these marriages were not registered and therefore not really legal.

Some people married in the neighbouring Botswana, but it was considered very dangerous to do so. If an interracial couple was caught having sex, they could still talk/bribe their way out of jail time. Marriage? Not so easy...

I am sorry to show such ignorance, Trekkie. I clearly did not really understand how deeply apartheid affected every single aspect of the lives of the people in South Africa. One could not even have the solace of marriage to the person one loved if the person was the "wrong" race...just as it was in the segregated US South. It sounds very much like our southern laws against miscegenation...which never had applied to white slave owners, of course. Look at Michelle Obama's DNA. Look at the DNA of any so-called "African American". We knew President Obama had a white mother and an African father. But it took testing Mrs. Obama's DNA to unearth her white relatives! When people have power, they misuse it.

Deb/AGBF

 

[isaku5]

What a wonderful story, Deb!!! May they have many years of marital bliss.

 

[AGBF]

What a wonderful story, Deb!!! May they have many years of marital bliss.

Thanks, Isabel. I can't believe it's tomorrow! I haven't decided what to wear. I have nothing appropriate that fits. I bought my father a new white shirt, new ties, and new socks yesterday so at least he will look wonderful. (When he had his bad fall down the cellar stairs last September and we had to clean out a room to make a bedroom for him downstairs I had a great suit of his cleaned, so that was ready.) It is fantastic that he will be able to attend the wedding at 93. But you are reminding me that I had better clean and replace the batteries in his hearing aids now. Otherwise he will not be able to make sense of anything said tomorrow!!!

Deb/AGBF

 

[isaku5]

I'm sure you will find something to wear that is exquisite I have that kind of faith in your judgment.

Kudos as well for getting Grandpa all gussied up for the occasion. If his mind is quite good, he'll love both the ceremony and the party afterward. Will you be keeping an eye on him, Deb, or has someone else been appointed to do that. He won't want to feel isolated. At our son's wedding, my best friend made sure that my mom had everything she needed.

Of our two kiddies' weddings, the grandmas had the best times! DH's mom loves champagne so when the 'toasts' were being done, she'd down a glass for every toast. Why not?? She wasn't driving. We made certain that there were plans in place for both grandmas and had explained to both what they were.

If you don't have a good time at a wedding, it's your own fault. Celebrate (even if the beverage is water) for the happiness of the couple.

Tomorrow will be our 51st anniversary What can I say other than I married my life partner.