My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts.......

[laurenk]

Hello - recently I posted about my new 1.5 princess uograde, set in a tiffany grace style. I've had it now for 2 weeks or so and I can't help but not be TOTALLY in love.

It's an "I" "vvs2" 1.5 (6.42 x 6.23) princess and quite a jump up from my 0.83 "g" si1 princess.

I don't wish to sound spoilt but the ever so slight "warmth" of the "I" colour in this larger stone is causing me concern.

Overall it's a gorgeous piece but I don't feel totally happy, and this upgrade has been something I've planned for years!

My jeweler suggested I wear it for a few more weeks before making a decision.

I also don't feel that the jump from .83 to 1.5 is hugely noticeable.

I wonder if the white tiny sidestones detract from my big stone and make colour more warm? I also wonder if I reset in halo style would this further make my diamond warmer to look at?

My 0.83 was so icy and white....

I can return and get a very similar stone but an "E" colour si1 (totally clean and bright) for a further $3k or jump up to a 3 carat also in an "I" colour but a bit more included - no yucky marks though for an extra $8k.

I want to feel that I have a big blingy princess as I won't be upgrading again.

Would love any help suggestions or opinions....

Feeling down

 

[laurenk]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Pic with wedding band

 

[laurenk]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Another

 

[Ashleigh]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

I can't see color from the photos but you should get what you really want since you said there would be no future upgrades. You might want to list the specs of the 2 stones you are considering for the experienced PSers to help you.

 

[laurenk]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Thanks Ashleigh - the photos look pretty great but in real life it can look quite warm.

The alternative is:
1: 1.50 E, 6.33-6.45-4.52, Si2, princess GIA VG VG None Fluo
Or a 3 carat which i need to get specs on

 

[Rosebloom]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

What's your budget? Are you locked into working with your current jeweler? I would definitely recommend changing stones of the warmth bothers you. For me anyways, those initial concerns only magnify as time passes. You should adore your ring!

 

[Niel]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

if you dont like it you dont like it. And this ring serves no real purpose other than to make you happy, right? Id trade it in.


Personally i might consider other shapes too. You say the jump in size wasnt noticeable. maybe you need a stone that is both bigger TCW and faces up larger. that way it magnifies the increase in ctw.


it looks beautiful to me but its not mine so my opinions isnt really what matters

 

[soxfan]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

if you dont like it you dont like it. And this ring serves no real purpose other than to make you happy, right? Id trade it in.


Personally i might consider other shapes too. You say the jump in size wasnt noticeable. maybe you need a stone that is both bigger TCW and faces up larger. that way it magnifies the increase in ctw.


it looks beautiful to me but its not mine so my opinions isnt really what matters

I agree with Niel- are you "married" to a princess cut? Perhaps consider a round which will show less color and face up larger? I am defnitely interested in seeing the 3 carat too!

 

[msop04]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Thanks Ashleigh - the photos look pretty great but in real life it can look quite warm.

The alternative is:
1: 1.50 E, 6.33-6.45-4.52, Si2, princess GIA VG VG None Fluo
Or a 3 carat which i need to get specs on

OMG! Get those specs!

 

[Smith1942]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

As the fellow owner of a too-yellow stone, I'd like to offer my sympathy. I know exactly how you feel. Mine is also an I, which is too yellow for my tastes. It was bought years ago before we had any idea of diamonds, and I feel affection for it because it's my original e-ring and is also a fab cut, being a Hearts on Fire, but it's an I and I can see the warm yellow tint. I would never choose an I, knowing what I know now. (I had no input into the choosing of the stone.)

Many people on this forum have a great affection for the warmer colours, but I'm not one of them. I can offer you some solidarity on this issue because, for what it's worth, although your stone is beautiful I CAN absolutely see the yellow tint in it, and I wouldn't be happy with it either. I'm quite colour sensitive and I prefer icy diamonds, so to me, the stone has a distinct vanilla tone. It would not be acceptable to me - I totally get what you're saying.

Swap it out for another while you have the opportunity, definitely. In my experience, colour dissatisfaction doesn't go away.

Good luck with your choice!

ETA: I've just seen that you have an opportunity to get a 3-carat, and also that there will be no more upgrades. So you have to get your dream stone now, then.

The only problem with the 3-carat is that it's also an I. However, not all I colours are created equal. Some seem to be quite a bit whiter than others. I know it's hard to tell from photos, but your current stone looks like a particularly yellow I. Compare it to my I stone (AGS graded) in this thread. I think they look like different colour grades.[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hearts-on-fire-0-70-i-color-si2-platinum-engagement-ring.171783/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hearts-on-fire-0-70-i-color-si2-platinum-engagement-ring.171783/[/URL]

So, what I'm trying to say is that perhaps the I-colour 3-carater won't be as yellow as the current stone. Can the jeweller bring it in for you to view?

 

[delight]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

A 3 carater will be even more yellow or brownish than your current stone. GIA/AGS's grading doesn't vary from stone to stone as much as you think it is.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

I think princess cuts do show more of the tint than ideal cut rounds. I can see the tint face up in your pictures. Going to a 3 ct. I color would make it worse, so eliminate that one. I absolutely think you need to make the change now. I agree with whoever said that it will bother you more later.

There are millions of diamonds out there. Under no circumstances would I limit myself to two he has in stock. Tell him to get lists from his suppliers and call some in for you if you are obligated to buy there. I think you need to stick with around G color and VS2-SI1. And ask him to look in the 1.5-1.99 ct range. Since you don't plan to upgrade again, I'd try to go for the 1.7-1.8 range if I could. I would not go for the E color one because you can get more size going with G. Be sure to always compare stones by diameter rather than just weight. Some are cut too deep and face up small. I'd want excellent to very good on polish and symmetry. GIA only (unless he can access AGS Ideal cut princess stones).

 

[Smith1942]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Also, inclusions will show more in a larger stone. I just thought it might be worth looking at, in case it's on the whiter side of I, or in case it has some masking fluoro, but I know that colour tends to show up more in larger stones, agreed.

Hopefully, there should be stones somewhere in between 1.5 and 3 carats that the OP could consider?

ETA: We were posting at the same time, DS! I was replying to the previous poster, not yours - just in case you wondered why I wasn't making much sense!

 

[AGBF]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Also, inclusions will show more in a larger stone.

I just thought it might be worth looking at, in case it's on the whiter side of I, or in case it has some masking fluoro, but I know that colour tends to show up more in larger stones, agreed.

Hopefully, there should be stones somewhere in between 1.5 and 3 carats that the OP could consider?

ETA: We were posting at the same time, DS! I was replying to the previous poster, not yours - just in case you wondered why I wasn't making much sense!

What do you mean here, Smith? If the inclusions are not large enough to be visible to the naked eye at all, I don't think the size of the stone matters. But perhaps I do not understand your point.

Deb

 

[Smith1942]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Hi Deb!

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought the bigger the stone, the easier it was to see inclusions, so a 0.50 Si1, for example, is more likely to be eyeclean than a 3.00 Si1. Presumably that's because the inclusions are proportionately larger in stones graded the same clarity but which are larger in diameter. This is a generic comment like the one above about colour showing up more in larger stones, as we don't know the clarity of the 3 carat and not sure if the OP has seen it. (She says there are no yucky marks but I don't know if that's her perspective or if she's reporting something the jeweller/jeweller's dealer said.)

When discussing diamonds 2 carats and over, although I LOVE the value afforded by Si clarity, I've been advised to stay at VS2 min for that size, because of what I said above re. the larger the diamond, the easier it is to see inclusions even when the two diamonds are the same clarity grade.

Perhaps that's the bit that was missing - in diamonds of equal clarity grade, the larger one - in a big range like 3 carats, anyway - is less likely to be eyeclean than a much smaller stone with same grade.

Perhaps this is wrong advice - please do correct me if I'm wrong! Not that I'm buying a two-carater anytime soon.

 

[laurenk]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Thanks for all your input everyone!
I do love princesses but have looked for a squarish radiant and would consider a cushion if it was more square with the rounded corners (if that makes sense). I guess square is me and I'm not into rounds as much. Asschers seem to face up smaller in general too (from what I've seen).

If I go for the 1.5 "E" this will obviously fix the "warmth" issue but do you think this much better colour in similar weight and face size-up stone will appear bigger due to its better colour?

I do want to really feel this upgrade and I want people to notice it too....

I'm stuck with my jeweller who is a wholesale diamond merchant in Queensland Australia where I live. I guess I also don't want to be a "painful" customer.

I love the tiffany grace style I've gone for and would just swap centre stone.
I feel I kind of rushed into my 1.5.

Sometimes it looks big and other times it doesn't, so if diamond shrinkage has set it already haha coupled with its warmth I think ill look at something whiter and bigger. Happy to drop right back in clarity to an si1 or si2 and I also think ill put the3 carat next to my current 1.5 to compare warmth.

I suppose in my heart I though 8 x 8 mm would be heavenly but I realise this is likely a 3 carat and unless I go back to the "I" I likely can't afford to buy a better quality 3 carat...

Will keep posting as I make some decisions.

Thanks again!

 

[soxfan]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

I'm stuck with my jeweller who is a wholesale diamond merchant in Queensland Australia where I live. I guess I also don't want to be a "painful" customer.


Thanks again!

Why are you stuck?

 

[Smith1942]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

I feel your pain, laurenk! Sometimes it is really hard to decide what is the right thing to buy. It's not exactly the same but recently I was really agonising over two pairs of diamond drop earrings.

Does the jeweller have all these stones at his shop - have you been able to see them already? If you've seen the 3-carat, what did you think of it? Eyeclean enough for you? (Because what's eyeclean to some isn't to others - this can be subjective and I guess it depends on one's vision, too. Arm's length? Stone 4 inches away from your eyes? And so on.) And, how yellow did you find it?

Diamondseeker suggested stones in the 1.8-ish range, and I think that's a great compromise because it's still a sizeable stone but you might be able to get a whiter colour for your money.

You're spending a large amount of money - I don't think that looking at more stones than these two options is being a pain!

 

[AprilBaby]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

I see the vanilla in your photos too. I would do the 1.5 E or look for a nice F-G stone.

 

[Rosebloom]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Please don't worry about being a painful customer!! This is your forever ring. It is the jewelers job to work to bring in several stones until you fall in love. Just be polite and clear about what you're looking for. They work hard for sales all the time. (And frankly they probably think people who just take one of the first stones offered are easy, yes, but also uneducated).

 

[laurenk]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Another option could be:

2.04c princess, "H" "si1" 7.31x6.82x4.92 (72.1% depth) (1.07 ratio). This stone has 24% more top surface than my current 1.5 so not only would look bigger but would be whiter. Would an "H" be adequate for a bigger stone or should I go to a "G"? This will cost me about $9k difference (this is quite a lot).

The other 1.5c is just a tiny bit bigger in the top surface but an "E" so I know it will be icy and I have seen this in real life.

I think I'll "sleep" on it for a few days then go and see him and have another good look.

 

[kmarla]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

I have a 2.03 carat princess GIA H VS2 and it is completely white. My original RB was F color and i wanted to stay white with my new diamond. Princesses tend to concentrate their color at the perimeter so I was recommended not to go above H to avoid seeing any tint. The I Colors I saw did show color. I think you should be fine with H. Good luck!

 

[Tekate]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

I see the warmth.. I have a G/H and sometimes it's a little warm for me as my original stone was a D/E.. but perhaps you may wish to set it in yellow gold.. I understand it makes warmer colors look whiter.. it's truly a lovely stone.. Princess stones are so cool.. your wedding band is also beautiful.

 

[AGBF]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Hi Deb!

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought the bigger the stone, the easier it was to see inclusions, so a 0.50 Si1, for example, is more likely to be eyeclean than a 3.00 Si1.

Wow. This is news to me. I would have thought that that one had to look at each stone on a case by case basis and see what one found in terms of inclusions.

Deb

 

[AGBF]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Hi Deb!

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought the bigger the stone, the easier it was to see inclusions, so a 0.50 Si1, for example, is more likely to be eyeclean than a 3.00 Si1.

Wow. This is news to me. I would have thought that that one had to look at each stone on a case by case basis and see what one found in terms of inclusions.

I just thought about this for another minute. I think what you are really saying is that the larger the stone, the worse the clarity grade of SI1 is.

Deb

 

[Acinom]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Your ring is gorgeous, but I feel you should trade it in nevertheless.
If the color bugs you now, it will keep bugging you.

Personally I love the warmth and personality of lower colors, especially in antique cuts (I have a U colored OEC myself). I can imagine you want a modern princess to be white. Good luck in this process and choose what makes your heart sing!

 

[LaraOnline]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Hi Deb!

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought the bigger the stone, the easier it was to see inclusions, so a 0.50 Si1, for example, is more likely to be eyeclean than a 3.00 Si1.

Wow. This is news to me. I would have thought that that one had to look at each stone on a case by case basis and see what one found in terms of inclusions.

I just thought about this for another minute. I think what you are really saying is that the larger the stone, the worse the clarity grade of SI1 is.

Deb

hi there,
I think what Smith is trying to say is that as the stone gets larger, the grading inclusions naturally have to increase proportionally as well... ie a 'very small' inclusion takes up a certain proportion of the stone, as viewed through the table at 10x; so too an SI grading will be proportionally larger, in keeping with the larger stone...this means that an SI grading may be more easy to spot...

However, I'm not sure if this concept is used in practice.
From the GIA website: http://gia4cs.gia.edu/en-us/diamond-clarity.htm

Very Slightly Included (VS1 and VS2)
Inclusions are observed with effort under 10x magnification, but can be characterized as minor
Slightly Included (SI1 and SI2)
Inclusions are noticeable under 10x magnification

Now, does an inclusion of any size become more or less noticeable in a stone of larger size?
There is no mention whatever of 'proprtional' grading - leading me to believe (from reading the GIA guidelines) that an inclusion is an inclusion is an inclusion.

Would be interesting to hear from a grader on this topic...

 

[LaraOnline]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

On the original topic...
I am colour sensitive, and an E is not to be sneezed at, imo.
However, I am the proud owner of a G coloured diamond and get a great deal of enjoyment from it.
I am not sure I would go lower.
Before making your decision, I would try to look at both an E and G colour diamond, in the sizes you are aspiring to.
The larger you go, the more likely the colour will show - not because the grading has become softer, but because there is more material, so natural the 'greater body' will show a greater concentration of colour!
Good luck, and I hope you enjoy your search.
It's fun to think about diamonds!

 

[AGBF]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

Hi Deb!

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought the bigger the stone, the easier it was to see inclusions, so a 0.50 Si1, for example, is more likely to be eyeclean than a 3.00 Si1.

Wow. This is news to me. I would have thought that that one had to look at each stone on a case by case basis and see what one found in terms of inclusions.

I just thought about this for another minute. I think what you are really saying is that the larger the stone, the worse the clarity grade of SI1 is.

hi there,
I think what Smith is trying to say is that as the stone gets larger, the grading inclusions naturally have to increase proportionally as well... ie a 'very small' inclusion takes up a certain proportion of the stone, as viewed through the table at 10x; so too an SI grading will be proportionally larger, in keeping with the larger stone...this means that an SI grading may be more easy to spot...

However, I'm not sure if this concept is used in practice.
From the GIA website: http://gia4cs.gia.edu/en-us/diamond-clarity.htm

Very Slightly Included (VS1 and VS2)
Inclusions are observed with effort under 10x magnification, but can be characterized as minor
Slightly Included (SI1 and SI2)
Inclusions are noticeable under 10x magnification

Now, does an inclusion of any size become more or less noticeable in a stone of larger size?
There is no mention whatever of 'proprtional' grading - leading me to believe (from reading the GIA guidelines) that an inclusion is an inclusion is an inclusion.

Would be interesting to hear from a grader on this topic...

When are the professionals allowed to chime in nowadays? Is it just a matter of getting their attention, or are they barred from commenting here if they are engaged in sales? I am sure that Dave Atlas could tell us all about this. And I am also sure that he is allowed to do so. The only problem is that he is probably on vacation in Maine. Not that that should be a problem for him!

Deb/AGBF

 

[Smith1942]

Re: My new 1.5 "I" coloured princess is giving me doubts....

I thought it was generally received wisdom that the larger the diamond, the more careful you have to be with clarity? Lumera Diamonds has a great education section on their site, which says this at the bottom of the linked page:

"The larger the diamond, the easier imperfections are to detect; therefore Clarity becomes more important. For diamonds over 2 carats, a clarity grade of VS2 or higher is the safest bet for avoiding any signs of visible inclusions. In diamonds between 1 and 2 carats, clarity grades of SI1 or better will not have inclusions easily visible to the naked eye. In diamonds under 1 carat, clarity should be considered the least important of the traditional 4 Cs." http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/diamond-education/diamond-clarity

This echoes advice I've seen on PS a few times to stay at VS2 or above in larger stones. But if I'm wrong, I take it back. Of course, stones should assessed (although I've had great luck buying blind from BN - admittedly in small sizes!)I've just read a number of times that in general clarity is more of an issue when you get to the larger sizes, that's all I was saying. It was just a general remark echoing what Lumera says about clarity in larger stones, same as the other general remark here about colour being more easily visible in larger stones. I didn't do a ton of scientific research for before posting it - I had heard about the need for raising clarity grade in larger stones a number of times, and it makes sense that this is because inclusions are often proportionally larger in larger stones. Perfectly willing to take it back if I'm wrong!

Perhaps, though, I could contact Lumera and ask them to explain precisely what they mean. If I'm wrong, it would be good to know.

ETA: If it's wrong that inclusions are, in general, easier to spot in larger stones, I wonder why I've heard this a number of times, Lumera being an example?

Perhaps it's just one of those things that's often said but isn't actually true. Maybe it's even a way for jewellers to make more money by encouraging buyers of larger stones to stay at VS clarity. I've always been really happy with my Si1 and Si2 clarity. If I ever bought a larger stone, I'd like to think I could stay in that clarity range.

Just seen that a new thread has opened up about this - pardon the threadjack.