My daughter is switching political party after she ..

[AGBF]

Deb it seems as if you know what the perfect solution should be. I OTOH think it is a very complex issue with no easy answers.

I do, actually, know what the perfect solution would be. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the problem.

missy-

I want to apologize for the way I "spoke" to you in this thread. I have been thinking about it ever since I wrote what I did. I certainly know, in reality, that I don't have all the answers. So I have been wondering what made me angry and made me want to say that I did in this case.

Naturally it was not your fault! It was something inside me that was the problem. That was why I was working on the problem alone, inside my own head, not discussing it with you.

When you wrote, "it seems as if you know what the perfect solution should be" I didn't hear you correctly. What I heard was, " You think you're so smart." That made me want to retaliate like one school girl to another. Only I was the only school girl. You were being an adult.

I have not been able to keep from noticing that you ceased posting in this thread. If you are no longer reading it, I hope that one of your many friends will tell you about my apology. You do know that I have always valued your friendship. Sometimes I screw up. I hope it wasn't once too often for you.

Big hugs,
Deb

 

[partgypsy]

I am atheist.
I am atheist.



Nobody gives a shit what dressing you put on your salad.

They care if it's super expensive salad dressing!

lol!

 

[House Cat]

DF,

If you believe all public assistance should end, how will the children of these people without jobs be fed? How will they be clothed? Where will they live?

I'd believe in temporary public assistance, b/c some people do go through tough times in lives, but don't make it a career living off of public assistance...go find a job and support the family.

I just read that 80% of food stamp recipients DO work.

http://www.marketplace.org/2015/05/25/wealth-poverty/military-families-turn-food-stamps
$84 million in food stamps was spent at military commissaries. When my husband was an active duty Marine, he knew many military families that collected food stamps. How are these people not working to support their families and yours, for that matter?

How do you know who is employed and who isn't when an individual is using their food stamps benefit? Is it possible that you are applying prejudice and assuming that all food stamps recipients are lazy and milking the system?

 

[packrat]

Well, here in town, before the pack closed, many people fretted when they hit busy times b/c they would have to work more..and there would be a corresponding decline in their benefits. So yeah, they're working..just enough. Others, like my dad and brother and JD jumped at the chance to work extra so (well, for us anyway, not so much for my dad and brother) we could try to get a little ahead, maybe have a little extra to do some work on the house or whatever (and at times, so we DIDN'T have to apply for state benefits)..meanwhile there were people putting in the absolute bare minimum required in order to keep their benefits.

 

[partgypsy]

My Mother is in a tough position because she lives in an expensive area, lives with my (perpetually unemployed) brother, and my (underemployed) sister. Despite the fact that when my Mom worked she made 15K a year, and my sister not much more than that, they made more than what is eligible for a family of 3 for food assistance. I'm not sure what the bar is to receive food stamps but even a barely livable wage puts you out of contention for receiving food assistance it seems.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Well, here in town, before the pack closed, many people fretted when they hit busy times b/c they would have to work more..and there would be a corresponding decline in their benefits. So yeah, they're working..just enough. Others, like my dad and brother and JD jumped at the chance to work extra so (well, for us anyway, not so much for my dad and brother) we could try to get a little ahead, maybe have a little extra to do some work on the house or whatever (and at times, so we DIDN'T have to apply for state benefits)..meanwhile there were people putting in the absolute bare minimum required in order to keep their benefits.

This is so sadly true. I have heard/witnessed so many people say "I want a job, but only no more than X hours so I can keep getting my X benefits ..." even from people in my own family. It's sad that the 'bare minimum' has now become the 'standard', and "work hard" seems to have been replaced with "just show up".

 

[Loves Vintage]

Well, here in town, before the pack closed, many people fretted when they hit busy times b/c they would have to work more..and there would be a corresponding decline in their benefits. So yeah, they're working..just enough. Others, like my dad and brother and JD jumped at the chance to work extra so (well, for us anyway, not so much for my dad and brother) we could try to get a little ahead, maybe have a little extra to do some work on the house or whatever (and at times, so we DIDN'T have to apply for state benefits)..meanwhile there were people putting in the absolute bare minimum required in order to keep their benefits.

Well what would happen if their income went up for only one week? Or one month? Then their benefits decreased for just that month? Or did they need to reapply the following month leaving them without sufficient food for their family? Were they employed full time and this was overtime? Is there any potential reason why they would rather not have their income temporarily increased aside from just being lazy? Like maybe benefits do not decrease commensurately to additional income?

ETA: And what other employment opportunities existed either in town or nearby which would have allowed them to work and not receive/qualify for benefits?

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

JocoJenn, I loved your post and I don't always agree with you on other issues. Where have we gotten the notion that judgement is a bad thing. Don't you all try to teach your children how to assess a situation so they can make a good judgment about their decision on an issue. My mother used to even teach me what was "good taste" , in furniture, clothes and of course moral issues. You "ought: to want your children and the adults in your life to have opinions(judgements) on social issues.

When you are in the supermarket you have to tell the cashier what kind of a credit card that you have, Visa, MasterCard, Food stamps. Everyone around you can hear you. That's how you know. The food stamps are a supplemental nutritional program only. You supply the rest with cash you may earn, food pantries, your mother etc. When you don't use it as intended, with all to see, you will get people forming opinions. .No one has said to discontinue the program , but only to stop this kind of abuse. No, they don't need soda, chips and a cake. Buy them with your other sources of income.

It seems many of you support the abuses, and then use the word judgmental to stop others from expressing themselves. If you can't even admit to these as abuses, I can see the problems in the country will only get worse.

Annette

 

[telephone89]

Hi,

JocoJenn, I loved your post and I don't always agree with you on other issues. Where have we gotten the notion that judgement is a bad thing. Don't you all try to teach your children how to assess a situation so they can make a good judgment about their decision on an issue. My mother used to even teach me what was "good taste" , in furniture, clothes and of course moral issues. You "ought: to want your children and the adults in your life to have opinions(judgements) on social issues.

When you are in the supermarket you have to tell the cashier what kind of a credit card that you have, Visa, MasterCard, Food stamps. Everyone around you can hear you. That's how you know. The food stamps are a supplemental nutritional program only. You supply the rest with cash you may earn, food pantries, your mother etc. When you don't use it as intended, with all to see, you will get people forming opinions. .No one has said to discontinue the program , but only to stop this kind of abuse. No, they don't need soda, chips and a cake. Buy them with your other sources of income.

It seems many of you support the abuses, and then use the word judgmental to stop others from expressing themselves. If you can't even admit to these as abuses, I can see the problems in the country will only get worse.

Annette

*laughing snort*

 

[packrat]

If it goes up, benefits go down accordingly. You would have to reapply, some have had to do it monthly. That job was something they could work year round and not need benefits. But there's ways to not come to work, and your wages stay lower. If you don't ever work over time, or weekends, and spend the majority of the year somehow unable to work over however many hours, you still have a full time job, you're still "trying" and you still get assistance. There are other places in town/close by that a person could work, as far as manufacturing/labor jobs, that pay well.

I'd like to see serious discussion by lawmakers on how to create incentives to get off assistance. Was this *really* created w/an eye toward keeping people on it for their entire lives? And for their children to then be on it their entire lives? Repeating and repeating? My parents would help us if we absolutely positively needed it--but the one time we thought we were going to need help, when I was due w/Trapper in four weeks and they were reorganizing at the pack and JD was the first on the chopping block-they sat us down and said "here's the deal-we feel bad. and you need to figure it out. go apply at every place in town, work whatever you need to do until you can get your feet under you again. we'll fill in the blank spots, you'll not starve. you pull the wagon"

They didn't say "Here's a check, I'll bring one every month if you can't find anything to work that pays what you think you should be paid and you have two kids so you should be able to be home w/them and we'll take care of you for thirty years"

I think we're really messed up, as a country. You don't have to work, you can be a slack ass if you want, and in some circles it's a game and it's celebrated. You can go to jail and get a free education, or you can do right and stay out of jail and work your tail off to pay for your education yourself. You can have babies every year if you want and someone will take care of you and them, and send you to school for free....or you can do right and work your tail off and take care of your babies yourself and even put yourself thru school. It's celebrated to have a business of your own (b/c duh, job creator and b/c duh capitalism) and even more celebrated when you pay your employees peanuts and Scrooge McDuck the rest of it away for yourself. And then us lucky ones stuck in the middle, are the ones who get the most of the kicks in the teeth, and told the most how we need to work harder, work more, save more, do more, more school, more everything...but really, we're encouraged to do those things by those on the bottom and the top of the spectrum---the ones who have the most to gain from our hard work.

 

[monarch64]

Hi,

JocoJenn, I loved your post and I don't always agree with you on other issues. Where have we gotten the notion that judgement is a bad thing. Don't you all try to teach your children how to assess a situation so they can make a good judgment about their decision on an issue. My mother used to even teach me what was "good taste" , in furniture, clothes and of course moral issues. You "ought: to want your children and the adults in your life to have opinions(judgements) on social issues.

When you are in the supermarket you have to tell the cashier what kind of a credit card that you have, Visa, MasterCard, Food stamps. Everyone around you can hear you. That's how you know. The food stamps are a supplemental nutritional program only. You supply the rest with cash you may earn, food pantries, your mother etc. When you don't use it as intended, with all to see, you will get people forming opinions. .No one has said to discontinue the program , but only to stop this kind of abuse. No, they don't need soda, chips and a cake. Buy them with your other sources of income.

It seems many of you support the abuses, and then use the word judgmental to stop others from expressing themselves. If you can't even admit to these as abuses, I can see the problems in the country will only get worse.

Annette

Melarkey.

 

[Loves Vintage]

I'll add a comment on the chips/soda/cake. First, I guess I wouldn't really expect people to separate out treats, which I consider all of these to be, to be paid with cash, from nutritious foods, which I agree is what Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) is intended for, to be paid with SNAP. Second, I agree that it is a poor decision to spend SNAP on expensive fish, though I do question the authenticity of story originating this thread. Third, crappy food is marketed by grocery stores to poor people. At least, in my city. There are two grocery stores, on the same street, same company, about five miles apart. The store on the poor side of town has gross sugar food coloring drinks, you know the cheapie plastic bottles with the tin foil tops, in bins for $.10 a piece. I can only imagine that some parents think this is a good option for their children to drink. I do not blame the parents. I blame the store for peddling that crap right when you walk in the store. By contrast, store on the other side of town has fresh fruit when you first walk in. I have always found this appalling, but everyone's gotta make money, so there you go. Fourth, the cashier in any supermarket I shop in never asks me what kind of card I am using. Fifth, I have never noticed anyone paying by SNAP. I don't know how I would. It's a card. I wouldn't know whether it was SNAP, visa or american express. If people are using multiple forms of payment, yes, I would notice that. WIC may still be by voucher. http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/wicworks/Documents/WICFoods/WICAuthorizedFoodSampleCheck.pdf I can recall at least two occasions where I have seen people use these vouchers. In one case, two women asked if they could purchase a container of pre-cut fruit (I have a good memory for some things), and the cashier told them no and sent them on their way, and then told the cashier next to him to "keep an eye on those two" as if they were about to run off with this plastic container of fruit. I found this comment really in poor taste. The other occasion was uneventful, and I remember feeling happy for the woman who seemed earnest enough in sorting through the jars of baby food. I commented about how cute her baby was, and hoped that would put her at ease, rather than judged. I used to keep up with a mom forum where lots of moms would post about WIC and their experiences with grocery stores and other patrons, having a hard time getting through check out, etc. I have a lot of empathy for those women. And, people, in general.

 

[monarch64]

LovesVintage, what you mentioned about grocery stores offering super cheap junk food reminded me of this documentary:

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/soul-food-junkies/

It highlights the issue of cultural eating habits, talks about access to healthy foods, and the lack of education about what is or is not healthy food.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I didn't mean to suggest that chips, soda and cake weren't allowed under the program. As far as I know they are at this time allowed. That comment was my own opinion on the matter.

I may be mistaken about how one would know who has food stamps. I just thought about how I pay for groceries and I always say I'm paying by a Visa Card. I saw a receipt from someone who used the food card and it said Food Stamps where mine said Visa. It also said how much food stamps were left on the card.
Sorry if I'm WRONG. I'm going to ask that person. Thanks for pointing it out. I only went by what I do at the supermarket.

Annette

 

[missy]

Deb it seems as if you know what the perfect solution should be. I OTOH think it is a very complex issue with no easy answers.

I do, actually, know what the perfect solution would be. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the problem.

missy-

I want to apologize for the way I "spoke" to you in this thread. I have been thinking about it ever since I wrote what I did. I certainly know, in reality, that I don't have all the answers. So I have been wondering what made me angry and made me want to say that I did in this case.

Naturally it was not your fault! It was something inside me that was the problem. That was why I was working on the problem alone, inside my own head, not discussing it with you.

When you wrote, "it seems as if you know what the perfect solution should be" I didn't hear you correctly. What I heard was, " You think you're so smart." That made me want to retaliate like one school girl to another. Only I was the only school girl. You were being an adult.

I have not been able to keep from noticing that you ceased posting in this thread. If you are no longer reading it, I hope that one of your many friends will tell you about my apology. You do know that I have always valued your friendship. Sometimes I screw up. I hope it wasn't once too often for you.

Big hugs,
Deb

Dear Deb, no apology is necessary and you are a sweetheart. Big hugs back to you.

 

[hay joe]

It's just proof that if you take money from responsible people and give it to the irresponsible it will be wasted. Obviously that person has no respect for the people the money was taken from. There are people who are truly in need and there are people who will work a system that feeds fraud.

Who said the poor are irresponsible?

You have professed to being a Catholic. Tune in and listen to the Pope. He has been travelling the globe in support of the poor. Or listen to The Bible. God gave food to the poor many times in stories in the Bible, both in the Old and New Testaments.

"After this Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is the Sea of Tiberias. And a large crowd was following him, because they saw the signs that he was doing on the sick. Jesus went up on the mountain, and there he sat down with his disciples. Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was at hand. Lifting up his eyes, then, and seeing that a large crowd was coming toward him, Jesus said to Philip, “Where are we to buy bread, so that these people may eat?” ..."

John 6:1-71 ESV

I am a Catholic.
You are putting your own twist on what I wrote. I meant what I wrote, nothing more. The bait won't be taken.
I am a Catholic

Joe-

I am not going to try to discuss religion with you anymore. I do want to discuss conversation, however. In my opinion, if I respond to something you wrote, I am not "putting my own twist on it". I am giving you my thoughts on it. That is what happens on a forum. It is called discussion. If it is done with civility, there is nothing wrong with it. And it isn't really offering bait because I am not trying to land a fish; I am trying to express my views and, possibly, get you to explain something you said that did not make sense to me. Discussion.

And, as has been said by others here before, participation in these discussion threads is optional.

AGBF

We don't know if the person "a food stamp recipient buying (2) $75 can of abalone at an Asian grocery store" was poor or not. I didn't write the word "poor" I wrote "irresponsible" That I call a twist. It is irresponsible to take vouchers that were intended to feed the truly needy and spend them mindlessly. If I need help in the future I will be grateful, thankful and frugal.

I may have this perspective because I don't feel entitled to anything I didn't earn. I am not "owed". I am not "entitled". I am not in a "protected class".

I hope all of us would be appalled if the next US food donation to Ethiopia (or any other needy country) was a few cases of tuna and not pallets/truck loads of staples.

And yes I am a Catholic.

Ok Kenny let your hate spew.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I may have this perspective because I don't feel entitled to anything I didn't earn. I am not "owed". I am not "entitled". I am not in a "protected class".

THIS!!!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I got the answer to the Food Stamp question directly from an individual who used them, You do have to tell the clerk that you have a food stamp card as they use certain buttons on their registers to differentiate who is paying with what.

I used to go shopping with this person and another woman. The individual using the food stamp card did not want the other person to know they were "on" food stamps. So, I took that lady to the van to unload the groceries from our carts while the other person checked out with the food stamp card as they were embarrassed for the other woman to know. They have since come off the program. Hope that clears it up.

Annette

In case Yissie checks In. The 43 % of people who pay no taxes comes from the lower half of income brackets. 57% of the people pay all of the taxes. there are only a bit over 500 billionaires in the US. 40% tax bracket for Corporations.

 

[monarch64]

Hi,

I got the answer to the Food Stamp question directly from an individual who used them, You do have to tell the clerk that you have a food stamp card as they use certain buttons on their registers to differentiate who is paying with what.

I used to go shopping with this person and another woman. The individual using the food stamp card did not want the other person to know they were "on" food stamps. So, I took that lady to the van to unload the groceries from our carts while the other person checked out with the food stamp card as they were embarrassed for the other woman to know. They have since come off the program. Hope that clears it up.

Annette

In case Yissie checks In. The 43 % of people who pay no taxes comes from the lower half of income brackets. 57% of the people pay all of the taxes. there are only a bit over 500 billionaires in the US. 40% tax bracket for Corporations.

Ok, an individual who used them WHEN, precisely? In 1983? Whatever, clearly you know exactly how things work at every supermarket across the country in 2016. No one else could possibly know what they're talking about except your friend who used food stamps back in the day.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Sorry Monarch, I didn't mean to appear as if I was trying to make myself right. I just wanted to be sure of what I said. I live in Il. and the person had foodstamps a year and a half ago. Of course, each chain could be different. Sorry!

Annette

 

[monarch64]

Hi,

Sorry Monarch, I didn't mean to appear as if I was trying to make myself right. I just wanted to be sure of what I said. I live in Il. and the person had foodstamps a year and a half ago. Of course, each chain could be different. Sorry!

Annette

I'm sorry, too. I was pretty snarky in my last response. So I decided to also ask an "expert" so to speak, and contacted my good friend who manages the front end at our closest Kroger (comparable to your Dominick's or Jewel). Here is what she had to say:

"At Kroger, we push the same button for EBT as we do for credit cards. So to anyone standing in line, there is no way to tell, unless they see the blue card. If the customer buys food and nonfood, I have seen the EBT card pay for the food, then leave a balance for the non food. If the customer is not expecting that, it might cause a conversation if they have to void off the nonfood, or non qualifying item."

Edited to add her personal take on it: "I see a lot of EBT purchases and they are like the differences in people in general... some times better choices that others. I must say I do see the stereotypical, using EBT to pay for food and using cash to pay for beer, smokes and lottery tickets... but usually that is more the exception than the rule. Freedom baby....lol."

You and I are probably both right.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

Try watching Judge Judy for a week. You will seen an endless parade of cheaters, dead beats, scammers and crooks who are on100% disability but can go to a RAVE, get hurt and try to sue someone, people who get the SNAP card and Section8 who think the government should be the endless never ending bank, women who have had 6 kids with 6 different baby daddies and wouldn't DREAM of asking any of them for, you know, CHILD SUPPORT. That's what the government is for, amirite?

We started out with good intentions, but we have created classification of people who expect {and get} taken care of cradle to the grave. While the rest of us schmucks get up each morning and slog off to work.

 

[monarch64]

Try watching Judge Judy for a week. You will seen an endless parade of cheaters, dead beats, scammers and crooks who are on100% disability but can go to a RAVE, get hurt and try to sue someone, people who get the SNAP card and Section8 who think the government should be the endless never ending bank, women who have had 6 kids with 6 different baby daddies and wouldn't DREAM of asking any of them for, you know, CHILD SUPPORT. That's what the government is for, amirite?

We started out with good intentions, but we have created classification of people who expect {and get} taken care of cradle to the grave. While the rest of us schmucks get up each morning and slog off to work.

Not sure that is the analogy you really want to use. Judge Judy show pays litigants and flies them to LA for the taping of the "arbitration" and pays whichever party wins the arbitration. Hmm, maybe they pick and choose the most awful people to dramatize the show a little bit?

http://blogs.findlaw.com/celebrity_justice/2012/01/is-judge-judy-a-real-court-top-3-secrets-of-tv-judge-shows.html

 

[ruby59]

'm not going to balk at a womay buying tuna with her food stamps of she can use the food to feed her children a home made healthy meal.

______________________________________________________

Then buy a can of Bumble Bee or Starkist. There needs to be more guidelines on what can and cannot be purchased with food stamps.

 

[ruby59]

If you believe all public assistance should end, how will the children of these people without jobs be fed? How will they be clothed? Where will they live?

________________________________________________________________

My mother grew up during the Great Depression, when there was very little. But people managed to survive because they had to.

Might be difficult for a while, but it also might force people to finally take responsibility for the choices they make in life.

 

[Dancing Fire]

If it goes up, benefits go down accordingly. You would have to reapply, some have had to do it monthly. That job was something they could work year round and not need benefits. But there's ways to not come to work, and your wages stay lower. If you don't ever work over time, or weekends, and spend the majority of the year somehow unable to work over however many hours, you still have a full time job, you're still "trying" and you still get assistance. There are other places in town/close by that a person could work, as far as manufacturing/labor jobs, that pay well.

I'd like to see serious discussion by lawmakers on how to create incentives to get off assistance. Was this *really* created w/an eye toward keeping people on it for their entire lives? And for their children to then be on it their entire lives? Repeating and repeating? My parents would help us if we absolutely positively needed it--but the one time we thought we were going to need help, when I was due w/Trapper in four weeks and they were reorganizing at the pack and JD was the first on the chopping block-they sat us down and said "here's the deal-we feel bad. and you need to figure it out. go apply at every place in town, work whatever you need to do until you can get your feet under you again. we'll fill in the blank spots, you'll not starve. you pull the wagon"

They didn't say "Here's a check, I'll bring one every month if you can't find anything to work that pays what you think you should be paid and you have two kids so you should be able to be home w/them and we'll take care of you for thirty years"

I think we're really messed up, as a country. You don't have to work, you can be a slack a$$ if you want, and in some circles it's a game and it's celebrated. You can go to jail and get a free education, or you can do right and stay out of jail and work your tail off to pay for your education yourself. You can have babies every year if you want and someone will take care of you and them, and send you to school for free....or you can do right and work your tail off and take care of your babies yourself and even put yourself thru school. It's celebrated to have a business of your own (b/c duh, job creator and b/c duh capitalism) and even more celebrated when you pay your employees peanuts and Scrooge McDuck the rest of it away for yourself. And then us lucky ones stuck in the middle, are the ones who get the most of the kicks in the teeth, and told the most how we need to work harder, work more, save more, do more, more school, more everything...but really, we're encouraged to do those things by those on the bottom and the top of the spectrum---the ones who have the most to gain from our hard work.

Love your post!..

 

[ruby59]

Wow DF you sure seem to run into a lot of people buying expensive delicacies with food stamps

Didn't one of your daughters live at home on your dime for quite awhile?
________________________________________________________

My youngest lives at home and my husband and I support her. Just as DF and Mrs. DF did with his daughter. We are not asking someone else to do it.

And DF my children had first jobs as cashiers in supermarkets. And what your daughter saw is far from unique, I am afraid.

 

[Dancing Fire]

We started out with good intentions, but we have created classification of people who expect {and get} taken care of cradle to the grave. While the rest of us schmucks get up each morning and slog off to work.

Exactly!..why work when you can stay home and get paid every month.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Wow DF you sure seem to run into a lot of people buying expensive delicacies with food stamps

Didn't one of your daughters live at home on your dime for quite awhile?
________________________________________________________

My youngest lives at home and my husband and I support her. Just as DF and Mrs. DF did with his daughter. We are not asking someone else to do it.

And DF my children had first jobs as cashiers in supermarkets. And what your daughter saw is far from unique, I am afraid.

Her exact quote was..."they can afford to eat better food than I can". I told her it is much easier to spend someone else's $$$.

 

[House Cat]

If you believe all public assistance should end, how will the children of these people without jobs be fed? How will they be clothed? Where will they live?

________________________________________________________________

My mother grew up during the Great Depression, when there was very little. But people managed to survive because they had to.

Might be difficult for a while, but it also might force people to finally take responsibility for the choices they make in life.

The Great Depression left 200,000 vagrant children wandering the streets to fend for themselves. Is this managing to get by?

What bothers me most is that it has been said several times that being poor is a product of a person's poor choices in life. That may be true for a small percentage of people, but it isn't true for most of the poor. For most, they didn't have the opportunities, financial or emotional support or simple geography that provides a good foundation (schools and safety) that many on this forum take for granted. Stories of poor family members or being poor by proxy is not the same as living it yourself. For most people, it has nothing to do with choices. If it were only about choosing to be smarter with their money or working harder, many of these people are already doing just that. Believe me, many of them are money wizards to have the ability to feed six on the small amount of money they bring in.

I acknowledge there are abuses. I am not convinced they are the norm.

The scenario packrat describes makes me think that real reform needs to take place. Not by simply cutting benefits, but by truly looking at what is happening and by finding what is motivating people to remain underemployed. If they can incentivize working and coming off food stamps in a graduated system, people might be less afraid to lose their benefit.

Eta: isn't there a limit for how long they can receive benefits if not disabled, etc? I thought it was five years?