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More questions, "ring" halfway down pav?

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Bug-Z

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
9
I had a couple more questions, again im lookin in the area of 1 carat roughly, round brialliant H - I, SI1 - SI2. I have visited a few more stores i had to get my money back the first time but this is no big deal.Now im moving a little more cautious and refining what i think i can best afford in terms of a middle of the road approach with a bias towards cut.
On viewing some more stones with a 10x loupe only, i noticed in these stones a dark "ring" roughly halfway down in the pavillion, is this a phenomena associated with all stones loose or mounted? Is this caused by a reflection of the girdle arriving in roughly the halfway point in the pav. in my case on more than one stone at 2 different vendors? Or could this be caused by a reflection from a setting.To clarify i saw this "ring" in stones both loose and mounted, however when i viewed the stone face up i could not notice anything like an inclusion causing the rings.
Any feedback from some of the vendors would br greatly appreciated.In addition ive found that the more questions i ask, the more defensive these "mall" retail jewelers get, once i told the lady i didnt see any of their stones i liked she began to question my knowledge of cert. and what they meant and told me i was just hung up on all the color, clarity issues and that i shouldnt worry about it ..."besides you dont buy a diamond because of price you buy it cause your girlfriend likes it"? Thats what these suit and tie clowns who cant tell me anything about the actual diamond tell me, 2 salesman at 2 different jewlery stores. The way i see that is dont worry if it reasonably sells for 2,000 if your girl likes it and we want 20,000 for it, dont ask questions its "love" right.In my opinion finding and buying the "rarest", most beautiful stone i can afford to give to my future wife is "love" right? One more thing if Diamonds reflect light and colors that are close to them why doesnt everyone get white gold or platinum because this will actually help whiten the stone in a setting, is this correct? Thx to all who respond, Bug-Z
 

Bug-Z

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
9
Thx Steve, I thought this might be the case but im no expert, and found out the hard way "ask first, shoot later".What about settings why would i want the stone to look yellow by putting it in a yellow setting, if someone does this can they conceivably compromise color for clarity without visually changing what the naked eye would see if it was a higher color stone but compromised by a yellow setting? Im too long winded i know, LOLThx leo, steve answered for ya Bug-Z
 

Bug-Z

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
9
Thx again Steve, One more thing, are there any general guidelines a novice could use to determine a "well" cut stone by using specs about the stone and visually looking thru a 10x loupe. BUT not having the crown angle or pav. angle. Is there an equation to provide those angles merely by say using table, crown height and overall depth? Im willing to sacrifice absolute perfection in order to afford the close to 1 carat size, i have read all of pricescopes tutorial stuff just maybe trying to dig a bit deeper. Im in N.C., maybe ill give you a ring.
Bug-Z
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
If you see the ring in the loose diamond it very well might be a fish-eye effect which is indeed a reflection of the girdle. see www.pricescope.com/tutor_fisheye.asp Fish-eye is VERY negative factor and you should stay away from it.White or yellow - just a matter of personal preference. White metal looks more elegant perhaps.
 

rodentman

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Messages
461
Could be a cut issue with the dark ring. I defer to the experts which I am NOT. Just a consumer trying to get educated. But I will say: Be extremely careful in the chain (mall) stores. They play on emotions and many (perhaps not all, but many) of those stores do not handle the best cuts and will tell you that it doesn't matter as long as it "sparkles." All diamonds under their lighting "sparkle." Not good enough for me. Prices can be grossly inflated as well. I was looking at plain platinum bands (no stones) and one store cut the marked price in half. Makes one wonder.....
 

StevL

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
598
"i noticed in these stones a dark "ring" roughly halfway down in the pavillion"I'm assuming your looking at the diamond from the side?This is the refelection of the table, and will appear in any round diamond.------------------
StevL
www.demsjewelers.com
www.eightstar.com
 

StevL

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
598
There are things you can see with a loupe that can help determine how well cut it is, and with time many pros can even estimate fairly close the angles and percentages.To do this takes a long topic on what to look for, and some time involved learning to examine diamonds.I would be happy to call you and give you a few pointers you can do, I will be leaving town Friday afternoon, so let me know early or you and I will talk in a couple weeks.Vacation
------------------
StevL
www.demsjewelers.com
www.eightstar.com
 

Bug-Z

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
9
Sorry leo maybe i didnt clarify enough, i see the "ring" in the pavillion when viewing the stone from the side angle not face up looking into the table.Thats why i said i could see nothing, no table reflections or inclusions imbedded in the mid point of the pavillion to produce this "ring" while viewing it face up looking into the table. What about settings leo can this cause this "ring" effect? Thx Bug-Z
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,320
Steve - Liddicoat’s widely used ‘Rapid sight estimates’ method for visually estimating pavilion depth of round brilliant cut diamonds based on the size of their table reflections, does not work.
I have a paper outlining why under review.
.
Please never try to grade diamonds from the side or behind. If you do you will need to invent your own standards because all the existing stsndards work on face up views.
.
It seems you have got far too deeply into this stuff - it may be you will never be able to buy and enjoy a diamond if you continue at this rate and direction.
Just find a nice rock, buy it and enjoy it.
.
If you are looking at actual stones I hope you have bought an Ideal-Scope!
Garry
 

StevL

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
598
Garry,
I agree with you completely. What I was going to try to explain is how you can view the table, and look for the bow effect, and how you may see the arrows as you view the diamond through the table(doesn't mean its a h&a). Just tid bits like that, but much to long of post...... I type slow.------------------
StevL
www.demsjewelers.com
www.eightstar.com
 

Bug-Z

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
9
Thx Steve and Cut, Its Saturday now so maybe i will get a chance to talk to you when you get back Steve. I agree to a point with you too Cut about getting too deep into the analysis, just making sure i know what i need to know and ill decide what is important when i find the Stone of a lifetime.
Thx Bug-Z
 
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