Millenials to Boomers etc.

[Gussie]

You mean you had electricity back in those days.
JK. I’m also a baby boomer. Kaboom.




Well the grass always greener and all that jazz. Except it really isn’t.

The grass is always greener near the septic tank.

 

[missy]

The grass is always greener near the septic tank.

Exactly.

 

[ksinger]

You can poop on a pity parade better than anyone I know The frothing History Teacher™ image brought a smile to my face this morning. Thank you for your excellent as always prose @ksinger. What you wrote has been swirling in my mind for a couple days but I couldn't manage to corral it into cogency. I'm a boomer but managed to either miss, ignore, or forget the Generation Jones nomenclature. Although I do remember righteously blaming the generation that came before for destroying the world and leaving us scraps upon which to eke out an existence. The teeter totters but always moves in the same up/down direction.

Um...thanks? Yeah, I probably can. I'm well known for not having much patience with self-pity. But I'm actually so much gentler than I used to be. Ask any of the old-timers here.

And actually I didn't know about the category of "generation jones" until just a few years ago. I missed out on so much apparently. I was NOT a history buff back then, and didn't have a bunch of money for subscriptions to actual newspapers (our rag around here was fondly known as "The Daily Disappointment or Douchebag (aka - The Daily Oklahoman) and more than once won Worst Newspaper in America) and was too busy trying to get my feet under me as an adult, to point at people my uncle's age (he's 12 years older) and say "You BASTARD! You ruined my chances!!!" I really didn't feel that way anyway. Apparently, blaming groups or the world is just not part of my makeup. Is that me, or a how I was raised thing, I don't know. Being raised by a single mom, on some level I just knew early that situations were precarious, all indications to the contrary notwithstanding and that times could be hard. When are they not? Later, I knew there were no guarantees I would succeed or move up, I just wanted to make my mother proud and to let her feel I'd made as much of the opportunities she gave me, as possible. Maybe that's not much in the way of real ambition, but it was enough to keep me motivated.

 

[Tekate]

@sunseeker101 Thank you! that was fascinating. I don't think I am truly able to understand it all, but I read it. After IBM started massive layoffs in 90s in my mind I became the Tekate Tekate company and no longer felt any loyalty or allegiance to IBM, too hurtful to see people get let go for poor management decisions or lack of care to retrain etc.

this is well worth the read for anyone. Thank you again.

Here's an article you might find useful, ladies:

https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/features/teo-a0038960.pdf

It's a discussion of how neoliberal economic policy has changed social and individual psychology for the worse, and psychology's role in pathologizing normal personality aspects in relation to this new regime. One of the topics is 'positive psychology', a movement created by psychologists to infuse each child with a self-belief built not out of striving for competence, but in merely existing. The format of this is a mirror of neoliberal ideals: be self-sufficient in acquiring learning in order to thrive in a competitive world. We're all aware of the modern tendency in educational and child-related areas for all competitors to be winners and so on. I believe this to be one strong causal component of the snowflake or millennial phenomena.

As for the issues millennials are responding to: I think from a younger vantage point, and with your basic ideas of self and achievement bent away from traditional ideas, the vista of neoliberal modernity is likely less inviting and more dispiriting than for earlier generations. There is no clear path forward for youngsters today, given the fickleness of world market forces and their effects on the ground. Worker protections are necessarily reduced (the neoliberal deal), and competition is never-ending and so intense that it tends to the superficial.

Add to this the social effects of neoliberal policy, which are well-known and documented: relative alienation ('atomization', made worse by social media), lowered social cohesion, higher levels of opportunistic self-interest in all interactions -- this is the tip of the iceberg, but it's not hard to see why millennials may feel mightily discouraged in these conditions. Given that they were raised to take the universe over by barely raising a finger thanks to 'positive' psychology, it's also easy to see why they might give up with a relative sense of entitlement compared to earlier generations.

This is the kind of thing creating modern malaise in swathes of millennials today. A good indicator of what they've been lacking in upbringing is who they look to for help and support. At the moment, Jordan Peterson is filling this role, at least for a large number of young men in America.

 

[Matata]

Um...thanks? Yeah, I probably can

I really did mean it as a high compliment because you always exercise critical thinking embedded with a preponderance of evidence to support your position. It is always a pleasurable and illuminating experience to read your posts.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

The median annual Public School Teacher salary in Austin, TX is $54,246, as of January 30, 2018, with a range usually between $47,358-$62,628 not including bonus and benefit information and other factors that impact base pay.

- - - - -

Rents in Austin are cheaper, I can say unequivocally that food is way cheaper than in the city. Gas is waaay cheaper.. taxes are waaaay cheaper. Now the downside is: it republican, it's hot, it's dry, of course MANY people like that.

My sister, b4 she died, said in her opinion after 40 years in teaching/school system was Charter Schools, they are low paying, there was no union, they start out new teachers very lowly paid.. all in the name of CHOICE she said, (which she said was redic but that is another chat fer sure). We are now in the wonderful free market economy (which will again be the ruin and hopefully we will Phoenix again).

here's a good read: http://www.businessinsider.com/ayn-rand-is-ruining-the-american-economy-2013-9

Austin/Dallas/Houston are millenial heaven!

You can't look at current median salaries for teachers, our jobs don't work that way, they go off of years of service, even in Texas. This chart is from 2013-2014, I started in 2009-2010 so it would have been even less.

2013-2014 Minimum Salary Schedule

This page contains information about the state minimum salary schedule for classroom teachers, full-time librarians, full-time counselors, and full-time registered nurses. In no instance may a school district pay less than the state base salary listed for that individual's years of experience as determined by Section 153.1021 of the Texas Administrative Code, Commissioner’s Rules on Creditable Years of Service.

Section 21.401 of the TEC specifies that an educator employed under a 10-month contract must provide a minimum of 187 days of service, unless the furlough program, as stated under Section 21.4021, is implemented.



Years of
Experience
Credited

Monthly Salary

Annual Salary
(10 month contract)

0

2,732

27,320

1

2,791

27,910

2

2,849

28,490

3

2,908

29,080

4

3,032

30,320

5

3,156

31,560

6

3,280

32,800

7

3,395

33,950

8

3,504

35,040

9

3,607

36,070

10

3,704

37,040

11

3,796

37,960

12

3,884

38,840

13

3,965

39,650

14

4,043

40,430

15

4,116

41,160

16

4,186

41,860

17

4,251

42,510

18

4,313

43,130

19

4,372

43,720

20 & Over

4,427

44,270

Carrying my $800 monthly student loan payments, I could not have afforded to leave NY. Had I had no debt, I absolutely would have left. I don't want my own children to stay here, I want them to go to school or trade away from here, I'll follow them when I hopefully retire.

 

[Calliecake]

@Asscherhalo_lover Even before you posted your life experiences you didn’t come across as entitled or spoiled. I realize that my opinion isn’t worth much but you have always come across as a kind caring compassionate person who is also a very good mom.

Every generation has its problems. I’m closer in age to Tekate so I experienced the high inflation and interest rates. It also wasn’t a great time to be a woman (which is why I’m so against this Trump administration) There was a lot less instant gratification. We started out with small homes and worked our way up to a better home. It was unheard of for a young person to be in upper management position. You needed years of work experience before you were given a shot at an upper management position.
Like @Tekate , the best thing I did was work for a large corporation with great benefits. I was given opportunities that a young person today would never be given without a college degree. I had to work my way up to them but if you worked really hard it wasn’t impossible like it would be today.

@Asscherhalo_lover , have you ever considered moving to a suburb of Chicago? Like Annette mentioned, you would be able to get an affordable home with a nice yard in a neighborhood with good schools for you children.

I have nieces and nephews who have a lot of student loan debt. I too worry how they are going to be able to afford a home and raising a family while trying to pay off their student loans.

@Tekate , I’m so sorry you lost your sister. I probably understand better than most people the connection you shared with her. You are so right about kids in homes where there was alcoholism, physical and mental abuse being close. I know friends of mine think I’m crazy for helping my family like I do. They also didn’t grow up seeing the things I did.

 

[redwood66]

Here's an article you might find useful, ladies:

https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/features/teo-a0038960.pdf

Hmmm. I will preface my comments with the fact that I have never, nor will likely ever, engage in any form of psychotherapy. So I have no experience with which to discuss the article's position as it relates to the complicity of psychology in the state of humanity today. But being a conservative by nature and my life experiences, the individual and personal responsibility are important. I have never been a member of the society discussed in the paper, as hyper-materialism and success at all costs are completely foreign to me. Keeping up with the Joneses has never been on my list of life goals achievements and family is the most important thing in my life. I am pretty simple and lead a pretty simple life which makes me happy. I can understand how that kind of life could lead to profound unhappiness but one makes choices in their life do they not? It seems intellectually lazy to ascribe blame of one's circumstances on an ideology. I have tried to teach my children that life is not always roses and often it will suck and it may suck for a long time. But get back on the horse - I learned that in the literal sense as a child. My life had some very sucky parts that I won't go into again here.

Thank you for the link and it was an interesting and in depth read.

 

[ksinger]

@sunseeker101 Thank you! that was fascinating. I don't think I am truly able to understand it all, but I read it. After IBM started massive layoffs in 90s in my mind I became the Tekate Tekate company and no longer felt any loyalty or allegiance to IBM, too hurtful to see people get let go for poor management decisions or lack of care to retrain etc.

this is well worth the read for anyone. Thank you again.

Yes, it IS fascinating. I'm about 2/3 of the way through, and will likely send that link to some friends.

Less in depth, and without emphasis on psychology, but a read in a similar vein, is "What Money Can't Buy: The Moral Limits of Markets". It is about market values infiltrating areas of life where they probably should not, and discusses the moral implications. Which is not unlike your author's addressing the erosion of character by the uncritical acceptance of use of neoliberal goals applied to people.

One other comment though, about the "if the psychologists can't get it, what hope do WE have". I guess my comment there, is why would we expect psychologists be any less embedding in The Matrix, than anyone else? Besides, how many psychologists have any knowledge of neoliberalism, laissez-faire economics, or history? They are specialists too. It's a pretty brilliant conflation (by your author) if you ask me, and not one that many would have the breadth to make. Besides, psychology seems to be becoming more and more enamoured of seeing emotional states as context-free. If you can just teach people a little CBT, then they can (as the author notes) take responsibility for all their own reactions, even the "negative" ones that may make perfect sense in context.

 

[Tekate]

Thank you ksinger.. the paper was brought to the conversation by @sunseeker101 it is a fascinating read, and what I thought was neo-liberal is not one! that was an eye opener. I'm going to send it to my husband.. I think he will enjoy it also.

regards, kate

Yes, it IS fascinating. I'm about 2/3 of the way through, and will likely send that link to some friends.

Less in depth, and without emphasis on psychology, but a read in a similar vein, is "What Money Can't Buy: The Moral Limits of Markets". It is about market values infiltrating areas of life where they probably should not, and discusses the moral implications. Which is not unlike your author's addressing the erosion of character by the uncritical acceptance of use of neoliberal goals applied to people.

One other comment though, about the "if the psychologists can't get it, what hope do WE have". I guess my comment there, is why would we expect psychologists be any less embedding in The Matrix, than anyone else? Besides, how many psychologists have any knowledge of neoliberalism, laissez-faire economics, or history? They are specialists too. It's a pretty brilliant conflation (by your author) if you ask me, and not one that many would have the breadth to make. Besides, psychology seems to be becoming more and more enamoured of seeing emotional states as context-free. If you can just teach people a little CBT, then they can (as the author notes) take responsibility for all their own reactions, even the "negative" ones that may make perfect sense in context.

 

[Tekate]

@Calliecake ! thank you. I feel for anyone who experiences a trapped and untenable situation. I believe I felt like that many times, say crossroads, in my life took the road I thought best at the time. I feel lucky that my decisions all brought me here.

I know you to be a very kind and compassionate person.

Working at say in IBM today seems impossible, because of the ever changing dynamics of the business, semiconductors aren't the end all and be all- from huge mainframes to phones in 40 years... What I read for today is people will have to wear more hats today than back in my day. The internet of things! Intel's motto. We are not slowing down, we are accelerating the use of technology, I got off the train but for those who are just getting on, I do believe you have options, I was told when I was a kid that I may not make as much as my parents did, but I made more.. It's all about the choices and the luck and the ability of any person.

I always wish everyone happiness, peace and joy.

@Asscherhalo_lover Even before you posted your life experiences you didn’t come across as entitled or spoiled. I realize that my opinion isn’t worth much but you have always come across as a kind caring compassionate person who is also a very good mom.

Every generation has its problems. I’m closer in age to Tekate so I experienced the high inflation and interest rates. It also wasn’t a great time to be a woman (which is why I’m so against this Trump administration) There was a lot less instant gratification. We started out with small homes and worked our way up to a better home. It was unheard of for a young person to be in upper management position. You needed years of work experience before you were given a shot at an upper management position.
Like @Tekate , the best thing I did was work for a large corporation with great benefits. I was given opportunities that a young person today would never be given without a college degree. I had to work my way up to them but if you worked really hard it wasn’t impossible like it would be today.

@Asscherhalo_lover , have you ever considered moving to a suburb of Chicago? Like Annette mentioned, you would be able to get an affordable home with a nice yard in a neighborhood with good schools for you children.

I have nieces and nephews who have a lot of student loan debt. I too worry how they are going to be able to afford a home and raising a family while trying to pay off their student loans.

@Tekate , I’m so sorry you lost your sister. I probably understand better than most people the connection you shared with her. You are so right about kids in homes where there was alcoholism, physical and mental abuse being close. I know friends of mine think I’m crazy for helping my family like I do. They also didn’t grow up seeing the things I did.

 

[ksinger]

Thank you ksinger.. the paper was brought to the conversation by @sunseeker101 it is a fascinating read, and what I thought was neo-liberal is not one! that was an eye opener. I'm going to send it to my husband.. I think he will enjoy it also.

regards, kate

Yeah, I knew sunseeker101 posted the link, I was just piling on the love and you got caught in the backlash (eww?). That and I'm too lazy to use multi-quote.

Yeah, I was a bit taken aback that she was referencing neoliberalism, which is a term that many people are unfamiliar with, and as you say, often assume refers to something it does not, probably because it is often misused when it's used. And I couldn't see the connection of psych and a philosophy of economics and markets. But the linked piece was very clear, and gave a lovely definition, and then goes on from there. Good good piece.

I confess I have learned so much over time, from TF History Teacher™ Just another of his many charms. The French cooking takes top spot though.

 

[House Cat]

I’d just like to put this here. Generation X was once the most hated generation by the elders. This is just history repeating itself.

http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2011/11/gen-x-members-are-active-balanced-and-happy/

 

[mco312]

Whatever one thinks or doesn't think it comes down to making the best of your life no matter the hardships and challenges. We can all agree that most everyone has challenges and disadvantages in life. No one's life is easy and perfect. Well, almost no one. My dad has a saying that I often think of when I start feeling down about things..."no one gets out of this life alive" and yeah it's funny but it's true too. And no one escapes life free of the crap that happens in life. That is life.

So while some individuals have more challenges and some have less ultimately what you do with your life despite that and sometimes because of that is what matters. What we experience in life contributes to who we become as individuals. It can play a role in shaping us for better or worse.

Kudos to all the strong and wonderful women here who have made an amazing life for themselves and their families despite and because of the hardships and challenges they have and continue to go through. Millennials, Gen Xers and Baby boomers and anyone else I might have left out. You are all amazing IMO.

Couldn't have said it better myself @missy.

Whenever I am stressed, this makes me laugh:

The truth is - most of us are "too blessed 2 be stressed".

@Asscherhalo_lover - I agree that many people in our generation are looking at an astounding amount of student loan debt. There are some unethical lenders loaning money to people for degrees that will never allow them to repay their debt, and there should be some regulations on such lenders. Have you looked at refinancing your student debt? I borrowed a lot of money from the government and my interest rates were almost cut in half when I refinanced. This saved me so much money and allowed me to pay off my loans faster. Just a thought.

My parents moved to the US to leave a war torn country and went through some really awful stuff before they immigrated. Because I know how hard they must have had it, I can have perspective over the challenges our generation faces. Believe me, I would not trade places with them.

 

[redwood66]

I’d just like to put this here. Generation X was once the most hated generation by the elders. This is just history repeating itself.

http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2011/11/gen-x-members-are-active-balanced-and-happy/

Since I am a first year GenXer this is all too familiar.

 

[AGBF]

But I'm actually so much gentler than I used to be. Ask any of the old-timers here.

I think you probably still scare most people, k. Not me of course, because I am so brave.

Deb

 

[MissStepcut]

I wonder why you would say such a thing. My mother always said: people who live in glass houses should NOT throw stones, and Pot calling the kettle black.

SMH. This WAS NOT a call out thread if you had read the previous area. This was a try to understand thread. I am glad I started it, I am glad I read more of millenial morass, I read Annette's posting especially and it was very interesting.

SMH.

What "glass house"??? I think it's incredibly rude to remove someone's comment from another thread, to start a new thread, to put every sentence under a microscope. I've been off PS for a number of years, so I have no idea if that's become a common practice, but as I said. In poor taste.

 

[ksinger]

I think you probably still scare most people, k. Not me of course, because I am so brave.

Deb

Harsh Deb. Just harsh. But still, you may be right. I guess I'm destined to be...scary? Seriously, I can barely imagine that. Let's try annoying. How about that one instead? I'll accept that one. Scary? Not so much.

I do know that my husband insisted that he did not ever want to marry a sweet woman. He dated a few, and found them insipid, said he. That's why he came back to me in the end: he is in no danger of sweet with me.

 

[MissStepcut]

Harsh Deb. Just harsh. But still, you may be right. I guess I'm destined to be...scary? Seriously, I can barely imagine that. Let's try annoying. How about that one instead? I'll accept that one. Scary? Not so much.

I do know that my husband insisted that he did not ever want to marry a sweet woman. He dated a few, and found them insipid, said he. That's why he came back to me in the end: he is in no danger of sweet with me.

So funny ksinger... I was just looking back at some of my old threads and saw a comment by you about the long and winding discussion in your relationship over last names!

 

[TooPatient]

Saw this posted on FB and thought it was good.

 

[lyra]

I'm positive we've never been the Joneses. Nor did we try to compete with them, lol. I almost wish we WERE the damn Joneses! Every life has challenges, and they can happen at any time. Today was a good day, so that's all that counts in my book.

 

[LLJsmom]

This is something I have seen as well. We have several friends/families in other countries that the parent/s live with the adult children in the family home that may be 200 or more years old. They think nothing of it and that is the way it will be forever according to them. I would gladly park RVs on my property for my adult children if they need it or the country goes to hell and it is the Grapes of Wrath future. You do what you have to do.

@redwood66 I agree with you. I will do what I have to do. As to multiple generations living under the same roof being a relatively new phenomenon in this country, I confess I never really understood all the value placed on moving out of your parents’ home the second you can. I come from a culture where that is the exception rather than the rule. Right now, three generations live under my roof. There can be benefits to living with parents. If you have children they can come to know their grandparents and build a relationship that is wonderful and fulfilling and different than the one with heir parents. And as grandparents age, they can be cared for more easily, until of course it is not practical. Not all change although potentially necessitated by circumstances not of your choosing is bad. Some can be a blessing in disguise.

 

[monarch64]

What "glass house"??? I think it's incredibly rude to remove someone's comment from another thread, to start a new thread, to put every sentence under a microscope. I've been off PS for a number of years, so I have no idea if that's become a common practice, but as I said. In poor taste.

When exactly did you become the resident “tastemaker” of Pricescope Hangout? If we’ve overlooked some rule of proper taste and Internet forum etiquette made by the owners of this site and you, would you mind very much directing us to where that rule can be found? Then we can all comply with your standards. Thank you ever so graciously.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Saw this posted on FB and thought it was good.

It's also still completely possible to be working your ass of to overcome things and still realize that certain situations just suck. Life it not black and white.

 

[TooPatient]

It's also still completely possible to be working your ass of to overcome things and still realize that certain situations just suck. Life it not black and white.

Yep! Life is so very gray at times. Often more than one possible path. Lots of different outcomes. Sometimes you work hard and it still just stinks.

We never know what another is working through in life let alone where they started or what they want to reach.

I've been dealing with a couple of tough situations myself with no "good" solution. DH and I have done the best we can figure and will keep working on these situations but it definitely sucks!

 

[MissStepcut]

When exactly did you become the resident “tastemaker” of Pricescope Hangout? If we’ve overlooked some rule of proper taste and Internet forum etiquette made by the owners of this site and you, would you mind very much directing us to where that rule can be found? Then we can all comply with your standards. Thank you ever so graciously.

Of course, it is my own standard, that it is in poor taste to copy someone’s comments out of a thread, which is their context, tear them apart line by line, and to hold them up for others to also criticize. Especially when both posters had made all their points inside that thread.

Honestly I am surprised this is a minority opinion.

 

[nala]

@redwood66 I agree with you. I will do what I have to do. As to multiple generations living under the same roof being a relatively new phenomenon in this country, I confess I never really understood all the value placed on moving out of your parents’ home the second you can. I come from a culture where that is the exception rather than the rule. Right now, three generations live under my roof. There can be benefits to living with parents. If you have children they can come to know their grandparents and build a relationship that is wonderful and fulfilling and different than the one with heir parents. And as grandparents age, they can be cared for more easily, until of course it is not practical. Not all change although potentially necessitated by circumstances not of your choosing is bad. Some can be a blessing in disguise.

I love my daughter so much but for her sake, I pray that she does not move back home with me after college. I want her to know what struggling is —at her expense, not mine. I’m gifting her a college education, and that is the greatest gift. I don’t want her to end up like all her cousins who live at home with mom and dad and new spouse Bc parents enable them to be financially irresponsible. Living on your own symbolizes financial independence Bc privacy is priceless. Believe me. I learned In college that I value my own space Bc i struggled sharing a home with others. So at 24, that is what my ex and I did. We didn’t spend money going to bars and getting drunk every weekend or on cabs (Uber for millennials), didn’t pay for cell phones til they were affordable (millennials are hooked on the latest smartphones) nor did I pay a week’s salary to get my hair done, nails, etc. Instead, we bought a house. I see all my millennial nephews and nieces wasting money on this crap as they complain that they can’t afford to move out. You are right. They are smart to let their parents pick up their bills. But they are not smart enough to learn how to invest the money they could be saving Bc they don’t save it! My millennial pays for her college books, personal expenses and her groceries. She is grateful that i pay the rest and is good with her money. She also has the opportunity to see how miserable her cousins are living with mom and dad and grandma. She hears grandma gossip. Lol. So that is the value of moving out. Glad I did it at 18 and praying she does too.

 

[redwood66]

Mine pay rent and all their own bills. Plus they each cook for all of us one night a week. And take care of all the animals when asked so we can go on vacation once in awhile. I appreciate the help.

 

[monarch64]

Mine pay rent and all their own bills. Plus they each cook for all of us one night a week. And take care of all the animals when asked so we can go on vacation once in awhile. I appreciate the help.

I love that they do the cooking once a week. You are raising productive and self-sufficient men/citizens/members of society and that is good parenting no matter what age the offspring, in my opinion. And whether it’s 4 course gourmet or Hamburger Helper...it shows responsibility and care for others’ well-being, and understanding that our actions make an impact on everyone else.

An aside @redwood66 : I’ll post in the random thoughts thread instead of threadjacking—I have colonoscopy q’s (now for a friend but sooner than later for myself) that I hope you don’t mind answering. ‍ <—-that is a hug if you can see it. I don’t always know if phone emojis show up here or not. (It is a generic lady with her arms circled above her head and I interpret it as a hug since it’s 2D.)

 

[LLJsmom]

I love my daughter so much but for her sake, I pray that she does not move back home with me after college. I want her to know what struggling is —at her expense, not mine. I’m gifting her a college education, and that is the greatest gift. I don’t want her to end up like all her cousins who live at home with mom and dad and new spouse Bc parents enable them to be financially irresponsible. Living on your own symbolizes financial independence Bc privacy is priceless. Believe me. I learned In college that I value my own space Bc i struggled sharing a home with others. So at 24, that is what my ex and I did. We didn’t spend money going to bars and getting drunk every weekend or on cabs (Uber for millennials), didn’t pay for cell phones til they were affordable (millennials are hooked on the latest smartphones) nor did I pay a week’s salary to get my hair done, nails, etc. Instead, we bought a house. I see all my millennial nephews and nieces wasting money on this crap as they complain that they can’t afford to move out. You are right. They are smart to let their parents pick up their bills. But they are not smart enough to learn how to invest the money they could be saving Bc they don’t save it! My millennial pays for her college books, personal expenses and her groceries. She is grateful that i pay the rest and is good with her money. She also has the opportunity to see how miserable her cousins are living with mom and dad and grandma. She hears grandma gossip. Lol. So that is the value of moving out. Glad I did it at 18 and praying she does too.

I really do understand the importance and value of independence and being able to take care of yourself emotionally, physically and financially. There are undoubtedly very many benefits from moving out and being responsible for oneself. I’m glad you grew and benefited from your experience @nala. And I am sure your experiences are shared by many people who do become independent. Living with multiple generations is not without its challenges. Yes there potentially is higher possibility of conflict, gossip etc. And I can also see how you see it as kids benefiting from parents labor. Bills they don’t have to pay, etc. Defihitely not minor stuff.
Although I have lived in the U.S. since I was a year old, I think I have learned and embraced multigenerational cohabitation values in other societies, if it is possible. I am sure that in many situations it is not possible for financial reasons or social/emotional reasons. My own thinking and the thinking with which I was raised is that the family is a larger unit than just me and my husband and my children. My parents to me are part of my immediate family. And as they have supported me for many years I will support them for the years to come. It’s not a big deal or a particular sacrifice. That is just what I value. When I moved in with my parents I took over all the bills. All they have to do is live. They love being there for the grandkids so it is two sets of grown ups raising my kids. I am fine with that. We have our conflicts but we figure out how to make things work. If the kids were to live with me when they join the workforce after they are done with schooling they will contribute to the family as well and we will work something out. Also I have no problem supporting them somewhat while they work and save for a home of their own. Responsibility can be learned and demonstrated in various ways. Being cut loose and leaving the home is one way. Treating family as your responsibility for a lifetime is another. I will always be supportive of my children in the way I see fit and that has worked for other families and myself. As long as they are kind, compassionate and responsible human beings I’m good. I feel confident that they are on their way.