Might Have a Winner Need Feedback

[countingdown]

After a month of looking I think I might have found the right stone. Met with the appraiser and conducted a bunch of tests. For those of you who don’t know here are the specs on the Stone.

Round
3.70
I
SI1
Depth 61.9
Table 56.00
Polish Ex
Symmetry Ex
Cutlet Small
Strong Fluorescence


Here is the data Rock Doc gave me. On the Consumers Gem Lab Color Verification It score H,G, and between G & H. Rock Dock said the stone looks like an H but probably was given an I by GIA because of the Strong Fluorescence. He Said the Stone is easily and SI1. He said the Stone is a 8.75 to 9 out of 10.

When graded under AGS guidelines the stone would be an AGS 2 because of the pavilion angle which is 41.7, in addition AGS would grade it very good straight across the board. There is defiantly hearts and arrows although not as much as some of these super ideal cuts. The only time the fluorescence was noticeable was under the blue light. We looked at it under several different lights, including direct sun light and there was not cloudiness. The price 32k which seems very reasonable compared to what I have seen. I have like 15 pages of data so if you guys need any more tell me and I can post it. thanks

 

[valeria101]

Date: 5/29/2005 12:40:31 PM
Author:countingdown



I have like 15 pages of data so if you guys need any more tell me and I can post it. thanks

Cool!

How about some pictures and Sarin report ?

Just for fun really, if yu saw it and have an appraiser's opinion that you are happy with, there isn't much left to say

Check this out !

 

[countingdown]

He has not sent me the pics yet. The link you gave me is the stone that I am looking at. I have the Sarin, what info do you need off of it? Thanks

 

[Kaleigh]

It sounds like a great stone. I can''t wait to see it.

 

[countingdown]

Thanks all, does anyone else want to shed some light?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 5/29/2005 1:01:10 PM
Author: countingdown

The link you gave me is the stone that I am looking at.

I have the Sarin, what info do you need off of it?

That is funny, because BN lists it for 2k more

ok... it happens, good for you. I was hoping that is yours because the clarity plots looks rather promissing.

Do you have a SRN file with the sarin report ? If not, table, depth, crown angle and pavilion angle,and girdle thickness would do. Basically, enough to use the HCA, if you have not done that already. In fact, images are allot more accurate than numbers can be, so this is why I was hoping for pictures and IdealScope if that is available.

 

[countingdown]

Diameter 9.96 mm (9.94 - 9.9 MM
Weight 3.717
table 56.4 5.62mm
Depth 62.2 6.19mm
Crown Angle 34.8
Pavilion angle 41.7
Pavilion Depth 44.2% 4.40mm
Cutlet Size 0.6% Very Small
Girdle Min 1.0% Thin
Girdle Max 2.3% Slightly Thick
Girdle Average 1.6% Medium
Proportion Grade 2 Very Good





Do you have a SRN file with the sarin report ? If not, table, depth, crown angle and pavilion angle,and girdle thickness would do. Basically, enough to use the HCA, if you have not done that already. In fact, images are allot more accurate than numbers can be, so this is why I was hoping for pictures and IdealScope if that is available.

 

[Dancing Fire]

the stone score a 5.2 on the hca......good,fair,fair,vg.

 

[MiniMouse]

Taken from HCA:

5.2 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion

 

[RockDoc]

For those who are relying on predictions of HCA, it would be prudent to consider the evidence presented by Marty Haske referring to the unanswered thread that is further referred to on this recent thread : https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/eightstars-not-my-cup-of-tea.4206/

It would also be prudent to understand that the basics of the calculations/predictions of the HCA are based on MSU''s work.

The real proof is the eye, and until technology develops a way to "beat" or surpass the trained eye, and the various testing and examination in many lighting environments, a mathematical calculation is just that. A mathematical calculation!

For this particular stone, both I, and the original poster, have viewed this stone in many variable lighting conditions, and viewing angles, as well as a thorough visual analysis using the B Scope Viewer, and the comment of "buying only if a good price" is unjustly given for this particular stone.

Diamonds are a creation that are INDIVIDUAL, so a combination of all the factors are a necessity to assess the visual performance of a diamond properly, correctly and accurately.

In addition, in analyzing a diamond, it''s potential to be better is in many instances a notable consideration. On this particular stone, it DOES have the potential to be rated as an AGS zero with a weight loss of about 0.30 carats. The client and I discussed this, and he asked my opinion... but this diamond performs and looks very well, far better than what the comment of the HCA, would lead or mislead one to assume.

This can be a consideration that the client can make at any time in the future. But for the present he is getting an exceptional price, and if he chooses does have the option to make it potentially the "cat''s meow" in the future, at a very minor cost consideration, for far less than it would cost him to purchase one that was already an AGS 0 or a branded H&A.

As far as the validity of the Ideal Scope - the consumer had the best of both world''s presented. He was able to compare the Firescope images, with the images using the IS.

I''ll let him write his comments about the differences in the images.



Rockdoc

 

[Regular Guy]

Did Rockdoc give you any sort of "relativistic" insight into how optimized this pick was? (edited to add...I posted when Rock Doc did, and after the fact, I can see that he has).You can read that I have a bias against appraisers from being able to help you much in this respect. As Ana points out, in the comment you reported: "He said the Stone is a 8.75 to 9 out of 10," I take it this is a report on Brilliancescope results, and although a) that sounds like a good result, and b) your appraiser left you feeling upbeat about the option, c) the HCA score would tend to give pause, and despite your long search, with the amount of money you're spending (is there ever an amount to disregard?), I'd be cautious.

 

[fire&ice]

I can''t really comment on the price as it seems high to me - but that is my view from buying in 2001. Buying times have changed.

That being said, how eye clean is the stone? In a stone this large, SI1''s may have some visible inclusions.

As far as cut, it''s so very hard to find a stone this large that''s within budget & visually pleasing. Something usually has to give. Are you settling for the cut or is it eye popping? At the end of the day, regardless of HCA score, some diamonds have the right stuff to work - and the HCA can be very arbitrary. In other words, doesn''t tell the whole story.

 

[aljdewey]

You''ve hired an appraiser, and he''s given you a professional, expert opinion.

I don''t know that any of us here....who haven''t seen the stone and certainly don''t have comparable qualifications....could give you any input that''s more meaningful than that of an appraiser. That would be like asking a bunch of med students to validate the opinion of an accomplished surgeon.

Take the information you are being given by your appraiser and use it to make an informed decision. My two cents.

 

[Regular Guy]

So, here's a couple of wacky ideas. Qualifier...I don't know much about diamonds, except what I've learned here, that drew me to buy my wife's replacement diamond, and which I am happy with. Review at your own discretion and risk:

1) One of Rock Dock's biggest fans, as you can read at his own web site, is Jonathan at GOG. On this page...although he mentions it's better to do before, rather than after the fact...

"Something you may want to establish up front with an appraiser is to let him know you are looking at diamonds and considering a purchase and if somehow, you can arrange some kind of a deal where he may be able to look at a couple of stones for you and "help you out", instead of paying a $50 - 100 fee each time you bring him a stone. Each time you ask? Sometimes you may find things out about a diamond that you weren't aware of at the purchase. Remember most jewelry stores don't have microscopes to show you the diamond under. So if you can develop some kind of acquaintance up front with an appraiser once you've found someone competent, this will be to your advantage. If you're purchasing over the Internet you'd have to have your head examined to NOT check out www.diamondclearinghouse.com."

2) I re-read your requirements and timetable in your posts, see you are giving yourself till August, and although you might prefer to be done with this, consider reviewing the strategy link below my signature, consider two additional options as follows, with this one as a back-up, with known proportions to begin with, and with this one labeled as AGS0 to begin with, (edited to add: and H&A, with AGS papers), and conforming to your original requirements of H SI1, discountable to $32,139, more or less matching the option in hand. It's possible the quick search has this mislabeled, but, although Rockdoc cautioned:

Date: 5/30/2005 10:27:59 AM
Author: RockDoc

This (re-cutting) can be a consideration that the client can make at any time in the future. But for the present he is getting an exceptional price, and if he chooses does have the option to make it potentially the 'cat's meow' in the future, at a very minor cost consideration, for far less than it would cost him to purchase one that was already an AGS 0 or a branded H&A.

you may be able to get closer to what you want now, with no intentions for cutting later, and at the same cost.

3) In this scenario, you could consider: a) having WF tell you which of these 2 they like better, b) send it to Rockdoc on the basis of a simple agreement, and c) perhaps get him to spend just a few minutes with this option to make a simple comparison between the one in hand vs. the newly discovered option. If the new option gets blown off, you have your original choice. If the new option instead seems provisionally more favorable, you'd have the option of having Rockdoc work up a more detailed analysis, however, WF would probably be able to give you serviceable documents to go forward with that new option, including sarin analysis, and more.

Final notes...option (a), as has been commented on by many, is probably fine. If you feel you have the time, and not to mention, at this point, the energy....this is just another exploration you might consider reasonable.

Best,

 

[RockDoc]

Regular Guy

One must consider the weight differences. The stone I reviewed weight 3.70 carats, and would yield approximately a 3.41 carat - if recut.

Based on the approx sale price of $ 32000.00

$ 8648.00 per carat for 3.70 carat stone

$ 9907.00 per carat for 3.23 stone

Now let''s make it comparable..... Lets say of extra cost of $ 1000.00 for recerting and recutting this would result in a price of

say even adding $ 500.00 more.... $ 33,500.00, the per carat price would be $ 9824.00 per carat based on the finished weight of 3.41 carats. ( Note: I am really guessing HIGH on the costs here ), but even at these higher costs, the first stone has a less expensive cost than the one, you suggested.

Would this really improve the visual appearance???..... remember this stone already is a well performing stone, so potentially let say there would be some improvement but at best it would be just a little, and most likely not too discernable by most seeing it.

This gives the client a far lower per carat price as is, and a larger stone, since size is a consideration for most folks, but still leaves an open option if he elects to improve the stone. Sort of the best of both world''s - wouldn''t you agree?

Not trying to be a smart A**, but there is a lot of difference between a comprehensive study and analysis and made by advanced consideration of many facts not able to be made based on not doing the work, testing and analysis completely.

The differences in approach in the analysis, examination and testing between an independent who can objectively consider the relevant issues, and someone who is a novice, or seller, really doesn''t compare. Myabe this is why Jonathon, says you need your head examined to buy without checking it out. We have great respect for each other, but I truly believe Jonathon writes this opinion in a sincere effort to protect the interests of not only HIS customers, but for others reading his site. Although, let me say that Diamond Clearing House, I thought might be a good name but I changed it to Consumers Gem Lab, as I had a few opinions that Diamond Clearing House, could be mis-interpreted as being a seller of diamonds. So... I listened to opinion and changed it....

Another issue to consider is the potentially higher costs which may evolve once the De Beers impending site takes place. If the client waits til August will the prices currently offered be increased? Actually, this is sort of a "crystal ball" prediction as to the impending situation, how it develops with the diamond marketing distribution, and jeweler and consumer acceptance of pricing in the future.

Respectfully,

Rockdoc

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 5/30/2005 12:24:26 PM
Author: RockDoc
Regular Guy

This gives the client a far lower per carat price as is, and a larger stone, since size is a consideration for most folks, but still leaves an open option if he elects to improve the stone. Sort of the best of both world''s - wouldn''t you agree?

Based on the info you''ve supplied, yes, sounds reasonable to me.

Seems like Rock was able to provide this additional feedback at no cost at all, after all.

Best,

 

[Dancing Fire]

countingdown
a few weeks ago you send me a PM asking, where did i purchase my 3.34ct h SI1 stone because,you were interested in the same type of stone.now you're thinking about buying this 3.70ct and having it recut into an AGS 0

IMO, it's not worth doing it.an H SI1 ideal H&A 3ct would be about $10k per ct.,i'm just guessing

my advise is,find the right stone now and forget about the recut.


ps; i would not even send this stone to an appraiser.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/30/2005 12:24:26 PM
Author: RockDoc

Now let''s make it comparable..... Lets say of extra cost of $ 1000.00 for recerting and recutting this would result in a price of

say even adding $ 500.00 more.... $ 33,500.00, the per carat price would be $ 9824.00 per carat based on the finished weight of 3.41 carats. ( Note: I am really guessing HIGH on the costs here ), but even at these higher costs, the first stone has a less expensive cost than the one, you suggested.


Respectfully,

Rockdoc

Rockdoc
who would recut a stone of the size for a $1,000 including cert?

 

[countingdown]

Dancing Fire, this has all been a little overwhelming. While this stone is not pefect most stones are not. I think this is a well cut stone and a good balance for what I am looking for. I will speak with White Flash tomorrow and see if they have anything else of interest.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/30/2005 9:38:51 PM
Author: countingdown
Dancing Fire, this has all been a little overwhelming. While this stone is not pefect most stones are not. I think this is a well cut stone and a good balance for what I am looking for. I will speak with White Flash tomorrow and see if they have anything else of interest.

yes....look at all your options before you lay down $30k+ on the table.

 

[RockDoc]

Rockdoc
who would recut a stone of the size for a $1,000 including cert?
Remember; it''s harder to find a "MIND CLEAN" stone than a eye clean stone.....AKA vtigger86


Dancing.....

This stone doesn''t require a "full" recut. Basically except for the pavilion angle/depth the stone is really not in need of serious recutting.

I think this could be accomplished, but as you notice I did my figures and estimations based on an additional $ 1500.00 just to be "safe".

Probably the shipping/insurance would be the most costly of the expenses.


Rockdoc

 

[MiniMouse]

Countingdown, if you have seen the stone and you love it and your appraiser thinks it''s fabulous too then it sounds like a good stone for you to buy (if the price fits). You are in the enviable position of having been able to see the stone and also sit with an expert and gather more information. You are very lucky in that respect.

There are people (like myself) who are in the unfortunate situation of not being able to see diamonds for themselves, hence we like to get initial help from HCA, as this helps us realise that a stone is likely to be an excellent performer (or otherwise), so should or should not be included on our short-list. This is the reason why I personally look to HCA for help, but after this initial selection method I will be relying on a PS vendor to give me the lowdown on the stone before it is sent for my inspection (as I have limited time in the States in June/July). I am sure if I could see the stones in person, I would follow my eye and pick the stone I like through what my eye loves, rather than what the HCA score is. After all, it''s what you see that really counts, not a bunch of stats.

There is absolutely no harm in checking with other vendors to make a comparison. This will help you decide whether the current stone is as good a deal as you think it is or else encourage you to consider other options.

It sounds like you may have found the right stone for you, but even if you check around and come back to this stone, it will just enforce that you picked the right one. If this stone ''is the one'' then I hope you''re going to speak to us with a few pics sometime soon.

Good luck.