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Eightstars - Not my cup of tea?

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dymonite

Rough_Rock
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49
I was thinking of entitling this Eightstars - ugly? but that would have been provocative but not really constructive:

My undertanding about Eightstar diamonds:

Perfect symmetry
No light leakage
Short girdle facets - for better scintillations/contrast but more head shadow effect (e.g. some decrease in light return)
Pricey!!!

It has been mentioned that some don''t like the ''look'' of Eightstars or prefer other ideal cuts/superbrands.

I was just wondering what is it that people don''t like about them. What is it that made you prefer something else?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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For me it was the 40% markup over a regular H&A or SuperIdeal. I priced out a 1.10 J, SI1 at $9500 and a 1.5 G, SI1 at $15k. Not likely!!! Plus those were all that the local jeweler had, since there are only a limited amount in circulation at any given point in time. So I couldn't see any others without really being serious about them. I went specifically to SEE what everyone was talking about and personally I was not super impressed by the images under the scope. I compared it against the jeweler's 'ideal' stone and yes it looked symmetrically much more clean with the prominent arrows, and sparkled a little more, but not 40% more!! I know that people who have purchased have been very pleased with their purchase, so it really is a preference thing. They are the cream of the crop with symmetry, which is very cool..but I didn't see anything that warranted an extra $3k out of our pockets on our purchase.

My 2 cents!
Then again we ended up with a COOL shallow large-spread diamond, so I'm not exactly the 'ideal' kinda girl.
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
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----------------
On 1/16/2003 11
0:11 PM dymonite wrote:



My undertanding about Eightstar diamonds:


No light leakage




----------------
What does it mean?
 

clapton

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 23, 2002
Messages
19
----------------
On 1/17/2003 4:18:48 AM Serg wrote:

----------------
On 1/16/2003 11
0:11 PM dymonite wrote:



My undertanding about Eightstar diamonds:


No light leakage




----------------
What does it mean?

----------------

I am not an expert just a owner, but to me it means in all types of lighting conditions the diamond shoots out a ton of color. Since none of the incoming light is lost it makes the most out of what's available.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It seems that many people have been fooled by the smoke and mirros in the Firescope.

I have not yet seen a diamond through the Ideal-scope that does not leak, and this includes every 8* I have seen.

And this is for a face up view.
Tilt any stone slightly to see more leakage.
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
People start to be a little mad about all those branded ideals...

You have to remember that not all diamonds since the beginning of
diamond cutting were done as they are today... But, and I can assure
you that many of those oldies had excellent fire and brillancy.
So you don't need a diamond to be Ideal to be an excellent diamond.
Morever, if you want to buy an Ideal one, you don't need at all to
buy a branded one. Cause a diamond is just a piece of carbon cut
the way you want it...branded or not.

Anyone who will tell you the opposite is just interested in selling branded
ideals... Many of the diamonds which are going into my hands are near-ideals
and they cost much less.....

Best regards,
Trichrome.
 

dymonite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2002
Messages
49
Ok, OK

I should choose my words carefully.

Serg is right
Garry is right


Of course all diamonds leak light.

Eightstars have been cut so that no white should show under firescope in a faceup position.

The actual point of my initial question was that, cutter of eightstar go to immense trouble to achieve the symmetry and firescope image that you see. Nevertheless, despite this - people subjectively may prefer other diamonds which do not exhibit this. It would seem that not only is the effort marginally better than other well cut/minimally leaking diamonds (the law of diminishing returns) - in fact it may be not what people actually prefer.

The real question behind the questions is what really equates with a good looking diamond? The eightstar philosophy of cutting approximates this very well but is there more to it that we have yet to define?
 

dymonite

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Oct 7, 2002
Messages
49
----------------
On 1/17/2003 2:34:30 PM Cut Nut wrote:

It seems that many people have been fooled by the smoke and mirros in the Firescope.


I have not yet seen a diamond through the Ideal-scope that does not leak, and this includes every 8* I have seen.


And this is for a face up view.

Tilt any stone slightly to see more leakage.
----------------
Funny about this Garry, your Idealscope is effectively a hand-held version of the Firescope. Yet you have previously stated that the ideal scope gives a 100% guarantee of finding an excellent diamond.

How can you criticise the firescope's methods without diminishing the value of your invention?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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If you take the lens and reflector out of a Firescope and hold the diamond with tweezers, not a perspex tray then the FS works as well as the IS.
The FS has been deliberately redesigned by 8* to reduce the leakage in 8* diamonds by darkening the wals, reducing the light brightness and to stop people being able to remove the lens and reflector.
 

dymonite

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
49
Cut nut,

Are you suggesting that if the Eightstar people revise the lighting method of the firescope that people will no longer have any objections to the resulting product?

Surely this change is not going to alter the final result that markedly.
 

adamasgem

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Date: 1/20/2003 4:01:04 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I am saying that a company with high integrity that cuts a very fine stone should never have resorted to such a silly apparently deceptive strategy.
Nothing wrong with the stone, but like all diamonds they display partial leakage of light.
Gary:
1st, you are correct, that all diamonds leak light

My understanding is that the "silly deceptive" strategy, as you say, was "developed" by a "marketer" who is NO LONGER at EightStar, and that long ago, there was a letter to all dealers, explaining about the Firescope (Symmetricscope)
In fact, I explicitly told you the differences, on another thread, I believe (at least by phone), when you kept on calling things "leakage" when the CORRECT term for the Firescope, would be "areas of light return".

If you put a diamond in a red room (illuminate it entirely with red), the diamond will only show red. UNLIKE the the Idealscope, the Firescope (Symmetricscope) illuminates the diamond with a truncated hemispherical red light, about +/-10 degrees (or so) to +/- 75 degrees, NOT +/- 90 degrees. I know you were p**sed at me one time in Vegas when I wouldn't tell you the answer, and distinctly remember telling you it later.

EightStars are cut such that they return light, from where light originates typically, that is, from above, not from the side.

EightStar's DON'T need low angle lighting (nearly the horizontal) to return it to the viewer, unlike most diamonds, in fact there are a lot of cutters who are trying to emulate the EightStar cutiing style, and occationally get one pretty close to the optical symmetry necessary to return the most fire. This doesn't mean tthat EightStar's don't return light from the side, only that they are optimised differently.

ALL round brilliant cut diamonds are most efficient at returning light from +/-45 degrees from the table normal. This I have shown explictly with 3D forward ray tracing, and all my SAS2000 client can duplicate the results. In fact, I believe I shared my private summary technical findings with you on a very large PDF file. There was another hugh thread, that sunnedly closed down when I showed what happens when you tilt a stone or rotate it.


In summary, you have to know HOW to interpret the results you are seeing based on your illumination model and the backlighting. Your Idelascope is similar to a backlighted Hearts and Arrows viewer, and is NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, like a FireScope, and tell you two different things.

The Firescope shows you "areas of light return" from where light usually comes from (above). An area of nearly perfectly white light in the FireScope, tells you, that in the face up position, that diamond can't return ANY LIGHT unless it originates from nearly the horizontal, which makes it an inefficient diamond and causes dark edges. Thats why an EightStar looks physically bigger for the same diameter of the stone, because it is not "dead" on the edges.

The Hearts and Arrows viewer, illuminates with white light from 0 to about +/- 10 degrees with white light and from about +/-10 degrees to +/- 90 degrees with no backlighting, to give contrast enhancement to show the "pattern"

Your initial Idealscope illuminates with red light form about +/10 degree to +/- 90 degrees, DEPENDING ON HOW THE USER, but with backlighting. The problem is, is that it can be variable unless it is used in a FIXED position with respect to the diamond, and that if the user moves it away from the stone they will get a different "picture" of what is going on, and the whole interpretation of what they see changes.

The problem has BEEN (and I've discussed this with you) is that most NON EIGHTSTAR DEALERS, if not all, are appling the WRONG words to what they are seeing.

In all backlit viewers, the intensity of the color, MAY INDICATE, ares of light leakage, but don't forget, the backlighting combines with the top lighting to confuse the issue.

I FORGOT TO ADD: Areas of black in ALL backlit viewers, typically indicates areas where the diamond returns light from VERY HIGH angle lighting, only there is none there, because the viewer eyepiece blocks it off, depending on the viewer's distance from the eyepiece. That is why the Hearts and Arrows viewer is constructed to allow in the high angle lighting

Marty Haske

PS I have been a consultant at times for EightStar, but am not now recieving any funding for technical development work. These are MY OPINIONS, based on scientific study and facts.
 

strmrdr

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This is a very old thread so im not sure why it was brought back to life.

To answer the question to me they look dark under the table in some lighting. The arrow shafts are too fat making them dark looking to my eyes.
Are they very well cut .. yep .. but I dont care for their personality.
There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions. I find them rather narrow tuned as far as what light conditions they work best in.
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
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I was going to step in here and state that Richard von Sternberg of EightStar catagorically instructed all of us EightStar vendors some time ago, I think it was at least two years, that the no light leakage statement was incorrect and that we should not use that statement or allow others to use it when describing his stones.

I see however that adamasgem has stated it MUCH more thoroughly than I ever could have hoped to do.

I can tell you all from my experiences in showing the Infinity Hearts and Arrows cuts of my friend Paul side by side with the EightStars of my friend Richard that there are indeed people who like both cuts better than the other. They are both incredibly beautiful stones and it always pains me that some feel the need to disparage one in order to build up the other.

Richard''s stones are indeed more expensive, and justifiably so. If you are one of the people who prefer the look of his stone then you will need to make the decision of whether or not you like it better enough to pay the higher price. If you like the H&A look better, then you get the stone you want for less money, which is lucky for you, but it in no way diminishes the value of the EightStar.

I would bet that the majority of people seeing either stone in a social setting would know that they were both special without knowing why. There are a LOT of beautiful cuts and styles available now in both the rounds and fancy shapes. Personal choice is the flavor of the day in my opinion.

Wink
 

Wink

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Storm Rider,

Thank you for pointing out the dates, I never noticed at all until you mentioned it.

Wink
 

strmrdr

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Date: 5/29/2005 2:38:09 PM
Author: Wink
Storm Rider,


Thank you for pointing out the dates, I never noticed at all until you mentioned it.


Wink
Your welcome.
Im melowing on 8* a little.
Some of the hype has died down and people are talking about them for what they bring to the table instead of the constant hype.
If someone likes them well enough to pay the extra money once they are informed of the factual information then so be it thats their choice.
 

adamasgem

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Date: 5/29/2005 2:28:32 PM
Author: strmrdr
This is a very old thread so im not sure why it was brought back to life.

To answer the question to me they look dark under the table in some lighting. The arrow shafts are too fat making them dark looking to my eyes.
Are they very well cut .. yep .. but I dont care for their personality.
There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions. I find them rather narrow tuned as far as what light conditions they work best in.
Strmrdr..

"Personality" of a stone is one thing, and what they like is one thing, but PEOPLE who haven't done the technical work should refrain from making statements like "There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions" You can design a stone such that it "performs" best in any PARTICULAR environment, but those conditions should be specified.

You talk about wider range of lighting conditions, well, what are you basing that statement on. You don't KNOW, period, you may know what you LIKE, based on the little you have seen, but you don't seem to have a grasp of the technical issues that are there, and the limitations of "performance" metrics ballyed about by everyone now.

Other than GIA's hemisphere (which I publically disagree with as unsuited for diamond performance evaluation as it doesn't emulate a "real world envirionment), ALL the purvayors of "performance" I have contacted REFUSED to specify the lighting envirionment they used to evaluate and spec out their "performance" metrics.

You should go back and read the long pricescope thread. The last three pages are the meat, and all of a sudden, there was silence, no replies because I think I threw technical monkeywrench into the gears of some peoples thinking.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-new-cut-grade-system-early-2005.19268/

(the last three pages should be enough for you to get the picture.. and as you say "You are not a diamond expert"

Eightstars are the BEST, in my opinion, on optical symmetry, and that STRONGLY effects broadflash fire. The attached file is a reduced quality image of Fire examples(all pics equally increased in saturation), with the Eightstar on the left, a GIA Ex,EX, a Branded "ideal" and a typical mall store special.

As to "performance", well it depends on whose flawed metrics one looks at.


Marty Haske

4picsreduced.jpg
 

Mara

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When I saw an Eightstar locally originally, I was not blown away, sure it was beautiful and looked blood red under the scope but it was not the 'ohmygod' eye-popper that I had heard about from others. Having seen a superideal and a HOF and the Eightstar, I think it really is a personality thing and what speaks to you, the consumer, about the stone. I also think one must be careful of the 'hype' built when speaking of a branded stone like the Eightstar...I think I was expecting too much, aka big sunbeams to shine from the thing or something unrealistic.


Personally I would like to own a small one just for fun...maybe for a pendant, but mostly for comparison purposes, to really check it out against my other stones and play around with it. Just like I want to eventually own a small cushion and a Regent etc for the same reasons.

The local store had a ~.50c H I1 that I was ogling a year ago for around $1400 which I thought was a very good price for a branded 8* since you couldn't see the inclusion. Unfortunately it's still on my 'list' but not near the top in priority and by now I'm sure it's long gone!
 

AGBF

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Date: 5/29/2005 3:30:19 PM
Author: strmrdr

Im melowing on 8* a little.

Some of the hype has died down and people are talking about them for what they bring to the table instead of the constant hype.

If someone likes them well enough to pay the extra money once they are informed of the factual information then so be it thats their choice.
Storm, like yours, my position on Eightstars has changed over the years. In the beginning they were new and I was interested. Then they were sold very hard and some of the personalities discussing them (on another forum) had me seething. I wasn''t even interested in the product because I was so outraged at the things said in discussions about them. Finally, in part because some good girlfriends had Eightstars, I started to become interested in the product again.

Now, I have never seen an Eightstar! However, I see these truths to be self-evident:

Richard von Sternberg is passionate about his project. The stones are, without question, cut by Eightstar to Eightstar''s specifications. They aren''t misrepresented (as some diamonds are). They are what they are. Take them or leave them.

Recently a PS member posted three diamonds and asked us each to pick his favorite. Mara and I chose stones from opposite ends of the spectrum because we valued different things in a stone. So it is with Eightstar. If if offers qualities that matter to *you*, then it may be worth the price!

Deborah
 

Midnight

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Date: 5/29/2005 4:29:08 PM
Author: adamasgem


Date: 5/29/2005 2:28:32 PM
Author: strmrdr
This is a very old thread so im not sure why it was brought back to life.

To answer the question to me they look dark under the table in some lighting. The arrow shafts are too fat making them dark looking to my eyes.
Are they very well cut .. yep .. but I dont care for their personality.
There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions. I find them rather narrow tuned as far as what light conditions they work best in.
Strmrdr..

''Personality'' of a stone is one thing, and what they like is one thing, but PEOPLE who haven''t done the technical work should refrain from making statements like ''There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions'' You can design a stone such that it ''performs'' best in any PARTICULAR environment, but those conditions should be specified.

You talk about wider range of lighting conditions, well, what are you basing that statement on. You don''t KNOW, period, you may know what you LIKE, based on the little you have seen, but you don''t seem to have a grasp of the technical issues that are there, and the limitations of ''performance'' metrics ballyed about by everyone now.

Other than GIA''s hemisphere (which I publically disagree with as unsuited for diamond performance evaluation as it doesn''t emulate a ''real world envirionment), ALL the purvayors of ''performance'' I have contacted REFUSED to specify the lighting envirionment they used to evaluate and spec out their ''performance'' metrics.

You should go back and read the long pricescope thread. The last three pages are the meat, and all of a sudden, there was silence, no replies because I think I threw technical monkeywrench into the gears of some peoples thinking.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-new-cut-grade-system-early-2005.19268/

(the last three pages should be enough for you to get the picture.. and as you say ''You are not a diamond expert''

Eightstars are the BEST, in my opinion, on optical symmetry, and that STRONGLY effects broadflash fire. The attached file is a reduced quality image of Fire examples(all pics equally increased in saturation), with the Eightstar on the left, a GIA Ex,EX, a Branded ''ideal'' and a typical mall store special.

As to ''performance'', well it depends on whose flawed metrics one looks at.


Marty Haske
Marty:

Can you please differentiate between "optical symmetry" vs. "optical performance"? From my understanding, at least through Pricescope, is that "optical symmetry" is often analyzed via the H&A viewer. How was the comparison images that you posted to display superior "optical symmetry" with the 8* taken and by what instruments/tools? At first glance of the images from a layman''s perspective, I would think they were displaying "Fire" based on "optical PERFORMANCE". Of course, I can also clearly see the differences in symmetry based on the sharpness and equally distribution of all the facets and pattern of the the arrows.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 5/29/2005 4:29:08 PM
Author: adamasgem
Date: 5/29/2005 2:28:32 PM

Author: strmrdr

This is a very old thread so im not sure why it was brought back to life.


To answer the question to me they look dark under the table in some lighting. The arrow shafts are too fat making them dark looking to my eyes.

Are they very well cut .. yep .. but I dont care for their personality.

There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions. I find them rather narrow tuned as far as what light conditions they work best in.
Strmrdr..


''Personality'' of a stone is one thing, and what they like is one thing, but PEOPLE who haven''t done the technical work should refrain from making statements like ''There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions'' You can design a stone such that it ''performs'' best in any PARTICULAR environment, but those conditions should be specified.


You talk about wider range of lighting conditions, well, what are you basing that statement on. You don''t KNOW, period, you may know what you LIKE, based on the little you have seen, but you don''t seem to have a grasp of the technical issues that are there, and the limitations of ''performance'' metrics ballyed about by everyone now.


Other than GIA''s hemisphere (which I publically disagree with as unsuited for diamond performance evaluation as it doesn''t emulate a ''real world envirionment), ALL the purvayors of ''performance'' I have contacted REFUSED to specify the lighting envirionment they used to evaluate and spec out their ''performance'' metrics.


You should go back and read the long pricescope thread. The last three pages are the meat, and all of a sudden, there was silence, no replies because I think I threw technical monkeywrench into the gears of some peoples thinking.


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-new-cut-grade-system-early-2005.19268/



(the last three pages should be enough for you to get the picture.. and as you say ''You are not a diamond expert''


Eightstars are the BEST, in my opinion, on optical symmetry, and that STRONGLY effects broadflash fire. The attached file is a reduced quality image of Fire examples(all pics equally increased in saturation), with the Eightstar on the left, a GIA Ex,EX, a Branded ''ideal'' and a typical mall store special.


As to ''performance'', well it depends on whose flawed metrics one looks at.



Marty Haske

1> People on 8* payroll as you admit to being should refrain from commenting about them its against the self promotion rule.
2> yea they have fire but fire is just one facet of diamond performace.
Some like a fiery diamond some like diamonds with more white light return.

More than 2 of the experts I respect the most as well as AGS agree that shortening the LGF too far results in decreased direct light performance.

Face it your biased to 8* and spread hype about them a lot.
I for one am tired of the hype.
 

adamasgem

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2003
Messages
1,338
Date: 5/29/2005 6:48:56 PM
Author: Midnight

Date: 5/29/2005 4:29:08 PM
Author: adamasgem



Date: 5/29/2005 2:28:32 PM
Author: strmrdr
This is a very old thread so im not sure why it was brought back to life.

To answer the question to me they look dark under the table in some lighting. The arrow shafts are too fat making them dark looking to my eyes.
Are they very well cut .. yep .. but I dont care for their personality.
There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions. I find them rather narrow tuned as far as what light conditions they work best in.
Strmrdr..

''Personality'' of a stone is one thing, and what they like is one thing, but PEOPLE who haven''t done the technical work should refrain from making statements like ''There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions'' You can design a stone such that it ''performs'' best in any PARTICULAR environment, but those conditions should be specified.

You talk about wider range of lighting conditions, well, what are you basing that statement on. You don''t KNOW, period, you may know what you LIKE, based on the little you have seen, but you don''t seem to have a grasp of the technical issues that are there, and the limitations of ''performance'' metrics ballyed about by everyone now.

Other than GIA''s hemisphere (which I publically disagree with as unsuited for diamond performance evaluation as it doesn''t emulate a ''real world envirionment), ALL the purvayors of ''performance'' I have contacted REFUSED to specify the lighting envirionment they used to evaluate and spec out their ''performance'' metrics.

You should go back and read the long pricescope thread. The last three pages are the meat, and all of a sudden, there was silence, no replies because I think I threw technical monkeywrench into the gears of some peoples thinking.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-new-cut-grade-system-early-2005.19268/

(the last three pages should be enough for you to get the picture.. and as you say ''You are not a diamond expert''

Eightstars are the BEST, in my opinion, on optical symmetry, and that STRONGLY effects broadflash fire. The attached file is a reduced quality image of Fire examples(all pics equally increased in saturation), with the Eightstar on the left, a GIA Ex,EX, a Branded ''ideal'' and a typical mall store special.

As to ''performance'', well it depends on whose flawed metrics one looks at.


Marty Haske
Marty:

Can you please differentiate between ''optical symmetry'' vs. ''optical performance''? From my understanding, at least through Pricescope, is that ''optical symmetry'' is often analyzed via the H&A viewer. How was the comparison images that you posted to display superior ''optical symmetry'' with the 8* taken and by what instruments/tools? At first glance of the images from a layman''s perspective, I would think they were displaying ''Fire'' based on ''optical PERFORMANCE''. Of course, I can also clearly see the differences in symmetry based on the sharpness and equally distribution of all the facets and pattern of the the arrows.


Midnight.. Most of the published technical studies of " optical performance" MSU and GIA have been based on perfectly physically symmetrical stones, in order to minimse variables. Optical symmetry seems to be , to me at least, what the resultant image you see is, and there may be differences between the physical "measurements'' which quntify physical symmetry, because the measurement accuracy limits have been stated as +/- 0.4 degreees on any facet and +/- 0.02mm on any dimension. These accuracies have supposedly been improved in newer versions of some measurememnt hardware.

When you based an analysis on flawed and/or averaged measurements, and purport to claim that one stone is better than another, you better know what what you are doing and the accuracy limitations in your analysis. Additionally, as I STRONGLY pointed out on another thread, mentioned above, when you are using limited viewpoint reverse raytracing, you can really make some drastic errors in your "performance metric".


As to the Fire images posted, I''m taking pictures with a faceup view in a patent pending device I made for EightStar, one that emulates a natural lighting environment, with conditions that enable one to actually see the fire. Other than that, until the patent application is published by the USPTO, I won''t go into it further.

When you look at a stone, what you see is what you get. The ideal is both physical and optical symmetry, you can see the optical symmetry and it is difficult to measure the physical symmtry. Moreso, those incomplete data presented to the consumer in "paper" issued by the labs are currently based on averages of, let us say for example , 8 crown main angles, doesn''t tell you anything, literally. Even a "complete" Sarin report most see, doesn''t give you all the data necessary to do a really correct analysis. This is improving, although still lacking in some respects.

As to limited perspective reverse raytracing telling the complete picture about a stone. No way. It is a very computer time intensive process to get the real answers, and untill you do the analysis correctly, you don''t know how good the approximations are, and I proved that in the other mentioned thread.

This whole process is still in its relative infantcy, and improvements will be made. As Gary H pointed out the deficiencies in the GIA methodolgy, there will be deficiencies and shortcuts taken in all the near future work. It will improve, eventually, but most don''t want to spend the time and money to do it correctly.

Visual based systems have to be carefully examined lest they alias results in the same manner some published analyses have, primarily because of lighting environment used, and recently because of the adoption of static viewpoint analysis methodology used becuase doing it right takes too much time.

I prefer the thesis, a picture is worth thousand words (or hours of computer time)





 

adamasgem

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Joined
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Messages
1,338
Date: 1/17/2003 4:18:48 AM
Author: Serg

----------------
On 1/16/2003 11
0:11 PM dymonite wrote:



My undertanding about Eightstar diamonds:


No light leakage




----------------
What does it mean?
Sergey, you know damn well that is a mis-statement, corrected a long time ago. How about spending your time speaking to the issues of tilt on the other thread.!!!!!
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
15,663
Marty I remeber well standing at the top of the escalator in Vegas listening to you.
I still have not learned anything that I did not already know. But the intrgue was exciting :)

It is also interesting to see the leakage in the 8* stone that Rhino posted on this thread
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-many-hrs-does-it-take-to-cut-an-rb-8-said-it-takes-an.28637/ on about the 5th post.

This leakage does not show in the Firescope.

PS no one closed any threads - we just all got bored, but maybe if we all went off and got a decent educjatuin wed al b able to discus thngs wit ya

8star leakage.jpg
 

chas

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
68
I have both and Eightstar and a Superbcert. I can''t say enough good things about either of them. Each one has its own personallity. Both were worth the price of admission for me. You have to go with what you like and what works for you. I compare them together everyday and still I like each one for there own characteristics.


Chas
 

adamasgem

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2003
Messages
1,338
Date: 5/29/2005 7:42:44 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 5/29/2005 4:29:08 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 5/29/2005 2:28:32 PM

Author: strmrdr

This is a very old thread so im not sure why it was brought back to life.


To answer the question to me they look dark under the table in some lighting. The arrow shafts are too fat making them dark looking to my eyes.

Are they very well cut .. yep .. but I dont care for their personality.

There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions. I find them rather narrow tuned as far as what light conditions they work best in.
Strmrdr..


''Personality'' of a stone is one thing, and what they like is one thing, but PEOPLE who haven''t done the technical work should refrain from making statements like ''There are diamonds out there that perform better accross a much wider range of light conditions'' You can design a stone such that it ''performs'' best in any PARTICULAR environment, but those conditions should be specified.


You talk about wider range of lighting conditions, well, what are you basing that statement on. You don''t KNOW, period, you may know what you LIKE, based on the little you have seen, but you don''t seem to have a grasp of the technical issues that are there, and the limitations of ''performance'' metrics ballyed about by everyone now.


Other than GIA''s hemisphere (which I publically disagree with as unsuited for diamond performance evaluation as it doesn''t emulate a ''real world envirionment), ALL the purvayors of ''performance'' I have contacted REFUSED to specify the lighting envirionment they used to evaluate and spec out their ''performance'' metrics.


You should go back and read the long pricescope thread. The last three pages are the meat, and all of a sudden, there was silence, no replies because I think I threw technical monkeywrench into the gears of some peoples thinking.


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-new-cut-grade-system-early-2005.19268/



(the last three pages should be enough for you to get the picture.. and as you say ''You are not a diamond expert''


Eightstars are the BEST, in my opinion, on optical symmetry, and that STRONGLY effects broadflash fire. The attached file is a reduced quality image of Fire examples(all pics equally increased in saturation), with the Eightstar on the left, a GIA Ex,EX, a Branded ''ideal'' and a typical mall store special.


As to ''performance'', well it depends on whose flawed metrics one looks at.



Marty Haske

1> People on 8* payroll as you admit to being should refrain from commenting about them its against the self promotion rule.
2> yea they have fire but fire is just one facet of diamond performace.
Some like a fiery diamond some like diamonds with more white light return.

More than 2 of the experts I respect the most as well as AGS agree that shortening the LGF too far results in decreased direct light performance.

Face it your biased to 8* and spread hype about them a lot.
I for one am tired of the hype.
Storm Door, who ever the hell you you are, you spend a lot of time commenting, but appraently, I don''t see any credibility in what you say. Just who the hell are you. You have p**sed me off with your comments.

If you read my posts, I clearly indicated that I WAS funded to design the Fire Performance Scope, and occasionaly consult for them, BUT I am not on their payroll, period. I consult for quite a few labs and others, including EightStar. Don''t try to impune my integrity or you might regret it.

It is interesting to note that you have a lot of posts, so you are either a dealer or somehow involved in the industry, but are too CHICKEN to reveal your true identity, and therefore hide your biases or adgenda. I''m not hyping, I''m stating provable facts in response to those trying to trash EightStar, and I''m doing it from a knowledge base you obviously don''t have, and I am not paid for doing so, and I don''t sell diamonds.

You however, have a hidden adgenda, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU, AND WHO ARE YOU GETING PAID BY??
 

adamasgem

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2003
Messages
1,338
Date: 5/29/2005 8:18:01 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Marty I remeber well standing at the top of the escalator in Vegas listening to you.
I still have not learned anything that I did not already know. But the intrgue was exciting :)

It is also interesting to see the leakage in the 8* stone that Rhino posted on this thread
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-many-hrs-does-it-take-to-cut-an-rb-8-said-it-takes-an.28637/ on about the 5th post.

This leakage does not show in the Firescope.

PS no one closed any threads - we just all got bored, but maybe if we all went off and got a decent educjatuin wed al b able to discus thngs wit ya
Gary, you didn''t learn anything that time because I didn''t tell you what you wanted to know. I am in the information technology business, and I expect to get compensation for consulting, which you didn''t offer.
 

adamasgem

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2003
Messages
1,338
Date: 5/29/2005 8:18:01 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Marty I remeber well standing at the top of the escalator in Vegas listening to you.
I still have not learned anything that I did not already know. But the intrgue was exciting :)

It is also interesting to see the leakage in the 8* stone that Rhino posted on this thread
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-many-hrs-does-it-take-to-cut-an-rb-8-said-it-takes-an.28637/ on about the 5th post.

This leakage does not show in the Firescope.

PS no one closed any threads - we just all got bored, but maybe if we all went off and got a decent educjatuin wed al b able to discus thngs wit ya
Gary, it has become evident that you are in over your head, technically.

1) We don''t know the lighting angles that Rhino used
2) What you consistently AND ERRONEOUSLY refer to as leakage, IS NOT LEAKAGE, it is an area of no light return, which can be caused by the angle of incidence of the lighting. For example, the arrows show black because they require very high angle lighting to illuminate, and the camera lens is in the way. It s the head blockage thing, which I had to prove to you is not 100% because of reflecttion from the face of the viewer.
3) You shouldn''t make the assumptions that you continously do
4) Go back to school and learn the basics.. you say you know everything, but I''m not impressed with some of the stuff you post.., especially this one..

But I stlll like you, and will correct you when ever possible, so you don''t mislead the public with your posts.
 
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