Michelle's helps with college admission

[Tekate]

I brought up this thread because of how upsetting it was to those students who did all that and got perfect SAT scores and were ranked 1 or 2 in their class, and did not get in or were wait listed.

What were they missing?

Yes it is all speculation. But some are saying she got in because she deserved it. And I am questioning what made her that deserving to get into every college she applied to - an almost unbelievable feat.

Do you know how many kids get perfect SATs?

 

[ruby59]

And do yo know how many get into EVERY university they applied to - especially ones which have the lowest enrollment acceptance in their respective states?

 

[Tekate]

Ok, first, no one brought up white privilege. You're bringing it up now...why? I'm going to take a WILD GUESS here and say what really sticks in your craw about Yara and Michelle Obama is that you think it's obvious that since Yara is black and so is Michelle THAT is the advantage/privilege? Ohhhh. OK. Why didn't you just name your thread "Black Privilege" then and tell us all how unfair affirmative action is? That would have been much easier than dragging this out for 7 pages.

ETA: I don't even have a "second."

+1 ..Give this poster the prize! yes you are right.. It's all about Yara being black, not about the fact that the kid has been working since she was 4, she is a television star, a model for teenage black girls (and white I may add as kids often don't see what mom and dad see), she has 4.6 average, A/P calculus (my kid only got to A/P pre calc and he's very lazy and smartish), the kid has gone to school off hours while working.. she met Michelle Obama because she is accomplished and involved in 'girl' power. My nephew had PERFECT SATs.. poirfect.. he didn't get inton ONE Ivy school, he went to UC Davis for a year and transferred to Northwestern (to be with his g/f who dumped him).. the man (now) is a genius - he's now 33, and an entrepreneur, he was valdedictorian.. Merit scholar etc.. so this girl with all her pedigree is miles ahead of my wonderful nephew (whom I love dearlly btw). I think if Yara had been white she would have been able to get into all Ivy's also.

 

[ruby59]

Hello. I worked in an urban high school in a poor neighborhood. And these children were minorities.

 

[ruby59]

I think if Yara had been white she would have been able to get into all Ivy's also.
_____________________________________________________

I find this statement ironic. You accuse me of being racist. What do you think this comment implies?

 

[liaerfbv]

Are we still ****ing talking about this?

 

[MollyMalone]

And do you know how many get into EVERY university they applied to - especially ones which have the lowest enrollment acceptance in their respective states?

ruby, I have no idea why you keep referring to "the lowest...acceptance in their respective states." Neither Harvard nor Brown are public universities, intended to primarily serve the residents of their states.

*** I am recalling something that happened over and over again where no one had an answer. ***

* * * [T]his has nothing to do with my kids but when I worked in the various school systems and encountered these disappointed students asking where they went wrong. And the answer was obvious.

Just wanted to juxtaposition these two.

 

[E B]

This can go on for another 80 pages, but can we drop the guise of it being annoying because it's unfair? When the subject of legacies and the Trump children was brought up, it was breezed over as not being a big deal, not being "the same" but it is also famous privilege, is it not? At least Yara had to work to become an actress, a volunteer, and a student with a 4.6 GPA. The Trump children happened to be the right combination of sperm and egg.

This isn't annoying because it's unfair, it's annoying because it's Michelle.

 

[sstephensid]

Ok, first, no one brought up white privilege. You're bringing it up now...why? I'm going to take a WILD GUESS here and say what really sticks in your craw about Yara and Michelle Obama is that you think it's obvious that since Yara is black and so is Michelle THAT is the advantage/privilege? Ohhhh. OK. Why didn't you just name your thread "Black Privilege" then and tell us all how unfair affirmative action is? That would have been much easier than dragging this out for 7 pages.

ETA: I don't even have a "second."

Ding ding ding. Someone noticed the elephant in the room.

 

[E B]

ruby, the cause for annoyance has bounced around so much (She asked her on stage! She's famous! Michelle barely knew her! Her GPA sucked but she got in thanks to the letter! No one else got a letter from Michelle!), it's hard to keep track of what exactly you find unfair about it. One thing is clear, though: there's a serious double standard for fame and fairness, here, and it runs down (not to parrot) the party line.

 

[jaaron]

https://www.providenceschools.org/Central

Where I worked.

The only thing in this room is an ostrich. So get your head out of your A and stop yapping the party line.

Wow. That's pleasant.

But back to the subjectivity of college acceptances... Our family has been through this process twice in the last four years and we're gearing up to do it again, and I have to say, it's just not straightforward.

Child 1 - extremely good test taker so aced the ACT and the SAT, across the board high marks (IB diploma), well rounded, lots of activities, volunteer work, sports, etc. Got into one ivy (legacy), waitlisted at another and did really well with the liberal arts schools. Child 2, did well on the SAT, but not 100% or anything near, very high grades in humanities, but frankly not all that stellar at math/physics/chem, has some very specific talents, not interested in sports, a slightly unusual activity/volunteer profile- got into 4 ivies, waitlisted at 2 (including the legacy one), got into three liberal arts schools, but turned down by two and waitlisted at the one (liberal arts) that child 1 chose (decided wasn't crazy about the legacy ivy).

Certainly not the results that we. or the school, would have predicted.

 

[Tekate]

I think if Yara had been white she would have been able to get into all Ivy's also.
_____________________________________________________

I find this statement ironic. You accuse me of being racist. What do you think this comment implies?

Ruby you continued obstinence on this issue has led me to the conclusion that you don't think she deserved to get in to all the Ivy's because she went above all kids in the USA with her same creds and got Michelle Obama to write her a rec. What is that saying to me? that is saying to me that you have a problem seeing Yara's accomplishments. And I think if Yara had been a white kid with the same accomplishements she would have also gotten into all the schools she did. She got in because she worked hard.

 

[cmd2014]

Fine, but then make the same comment when someone throws out white privilege.

Yara had an advantage that she got to meet Mrs. Obama.

While white people have no control over their skin color.

It is not the fact that the person is simply white. A lot of white people fail and a lot of black people are extremely successful. It is what you do about it to compensate for what you are lacking.

Yes, one that she earned by her talent and hard work.

White privilege isn't earned. It's a fluke of genetics combined with a shameful history of oppression and discrimination of pretty much everyone at the hands of Europeans over the course of several centuries.

Not seeing the equivalency here...

 

[jaaron]

Fine, but then make the same comment when someone throws out white privilege.

Yara had an advantage that she got to meet Mrs. Obama.

While white people have no control over their skin color.

It is not the fact that the person is simply white. A lot of white people fail and a lot of black people are extremely successful. It is what you do about it to compensate for what you are lacking.

OK. I think we can all agree that a Harvard education confers certain opportunities on the recipients. Harvard opened shop in 1636. The first black student graduated in 1870, and you can bet the house on it that other than as slaves or servants, they rarely made it onto campus for nearly the next 100 years. So what Yara is lacking is the 234 years, or eleven generations, give or take, of the opportunities conferred on many white families before they were conferred on even one black family. What she did, to compensate for what she is lacking, was to work hard to make herself a stellar candidate, and to have the courage to take what looked like an opportunity to strengthen her candidacy.

She did exactly what you say above. So what's the problem again?

 

[OreoRosies86]

OK. I think we can all agree that a Harvard education confers certain opportunities on the recipients. Harvard opened shop in 1636. The first black student graduated in 1870, and you can bet the house on it that other than as slaves or servants, they rarely made it onto campus for nearly the next 100 years. So what Yara is lacking is the 234 years, or eleven generations, give or take, of the opportunities conferred on many white families before they were conferred on even one black family. What she did, to compensate for what she is lacking, was to work hard to make herself a stellar candidate, and to have the courage to take what looked like an opportunity to strengthen her candidacy.

She did exactly what you say above. So what's the problem again?

 

[ruby59]

OK. I think we can all agree that a Harvard education confers certain opportunities on the recipients. Harvard opened shop in 1636. The first black student graduated in 1870, and you can bet the house on it that other than as slaves or servants, they rarely made it onto campus for nearly the next 100 years. So what Yara is lacking is the 234 years, or eleven generations, give or take, of the opportunities conferred on many white families before they were conferred on even one black family. What she did, to compensate for what she is lacking, was to work hard to make herself a stellar candidate, and to have the courage to take what looked like an opportunity to strengthen her candidacy.

_____________________________________________________________________

The term genocide was coined in a 1944 book;[4][5] it has been applied to the Holocaust and many other mass killings including the Armenian genocide, the genocide of indigenous peoples in the Americas, the Greek genocide, the Assyrian genocide, the Serbian genocide, the Holodomor, the 1971 Bangladesh genocide, the Cambodian genocide, the Guatemalan genocide, and, more recently, the Bosnian Genocide, the Kurdish genocide, and the Rwandan genocide.[a]


A lot of bad sh*t has happened to a lot of groups of people.

 

[jaaron]

The term genocide was coined in a 1944 book;[4][5] it has been applied to the Holocaust and many other mass killings including the Armenian genocide, the genocide of indigenous peoples in the Americas, the Greek genocide, the Assyrian genocide, the Serbian genocide, the Holodomor, the 1971 Bangladesh genocide, the Cambodian genocide, the Guatemalan genocide, and, more recently, the Bosnian Genocide, the Kurdish genocide, and the Rwandan genocide.[a]

A lot of bad sh*t has happened to a lot of groups of people.


Well, I couldn't quote your weird formatting above, so I've cut and pasted, but what's your point? You said earlier, "it's what you do about it to compensate for what you are lacking." When I pointed out that's exactly what Yara Shahidi did, you changed the goalpost to, "a lot of bad shit has happened to a lot of groups of people."? Um, ok.

 

[sstephensid]

https://www.providenceschools.org/Central

Where I worked.

The only thing in this room is an ostrich. So get your head out of your A and stop yapping the party line.

What in the world does that have to do with anything? Are you telling me that one is automatically free from bias due to their coworkers' or students' race? That isn't true.

The term genocide was coined in a 1944 book;[4][5] it has been applied to the Holocaust and many other mass killings including the Armenian genocide, the genocide of indigenous peoples in the Americas, the Greek genocide, the Assyrian genocide, the Serbian genocide, the Holodomor, the 1971 Bangladesh genocide, the Cambodian genocide, the Guatemalan genocide, and, more recently, the Bosnian Genocide, the Kurdish genocide, and the Rwandan genocide.[a]

A lot of bad sh*t has happened to a lot of groups of people.


Well, I couldn't quote your weird formatting above, so I've cut and pasted, but what's your point? You said earlier, "it's what you do about it to compensate for what you are lacking." When I pointed out that's exactly what Yara Shahidi did, you changed the goalpost to, "a lot of bad shit has happened to a lot of groups of people."? Um, ok.

Yeah what the what? I think this thread has confirmed a lot of things about Ruby. Blind to her own predjudices.

 

[ruby59]

The term genocide was coined in a 1944 book;[4][5] it has been applied to the Holocaust and many other mass killings including the Armenian genocide, the genocide of indigenous peoples in the Americas, the Greek genocide, the Assyrian genocide, the Serbian genocide, the Holodomor, the 1971 Bangladesh genocide, the Cambodian genocide, the Guatemalan genocide, and, more recently, the Bosnian Genocide, the Kurdish genocide, and the Rwandan genocide.[a]

A lot of bad sh*t has happened to a lot of groups of people.


Well, I couldn't quote your weird formatting above, so I've cut and pasted, but what's your point? You said earlier, "it's what you do about it to compensate for what you are lacking." When I pointed out that's exactly what Yara Shahidi did, you changed the goalpost to, "a lot of bad shit has happened to a lot of groups of people."? Um, ok.

I was obviously responding to your subsequent post where you mentioned that when Harvard first opened Yara would not have been able to attend since she was black.

As far as the formatting, it was a cut and paste which obviously shows hyperlinks.

 

[ruby59]

This can go on for another 80 pages, but can we drop the guise of it being annoying because it's unfair? When the subject of legacies and the Trump children was brought up, it was breezed over as not being a big deal, not being "the same" but it is also famous privilege, is it not? At least Yara had to work to become an actress, a volunteer, and a student with a 4.6 GPA. The Trump children happened to be the right combination of sperm and egg.

This isn't annoying because it's unfair, it's annoying because it's Michelle.

I find this hysterical.

The Trump lunatic thread is at what almost 300 pages. And when I commented about It I was told to just stay away from the thread from the very same people who are commenting about this one.

As far as legacies did I mention that the elder Obama girl also got into every college she applied to based on the legacy of both parents. So is she the same combination of egg and sperm?

 

[ruby59]

ruby, I have no idea why you keep referring to "the lowest...acceptance in their respective states." Neither Harvard nor Brown are public universities, intended to primarily serve the residents of their states.


Just wanted to juxtaposition these two.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/lowest-acceptance-rate

There is a more current one I cannot find, but yes Brown and Harvard had the lowest acceptance rate of students in their respective State. Meaning of all the colleges in Rhode Island, Brown accepted the least amount of students from everywhere - a lot of kids applied but there were minimal seats available.

Same with Harvard in Massachusetts. A lot of kids from all over the world apply, but only so many are accepted.

 

[ruby59]

What in the world does that have to do with anything? Are you telling me that one is automatically free from bias due to their coworkers' or students' race? That isn't true.


Yeah what the what? I think this thread has confirmed a lot of things about Ruby. Blind to her own predjudices.

Or could it be that you are blind to anyone who has a different opinion. Conservatives are racists seems to be the new party line.

And you do realize that technically I am also a minority.

Back in the day there were a lot of places Jews were not welcome.

 

[E B]

I find this hysterical.

The Trump lunatic thread is at what almost 300 pages. And when I commented about It I was told to just stay away from the thread from the very same people who are commenting about this one.

As far as legacies did I mention that the elder Obama girl also got into every college she applied to based on the legacy of both parents. So is she the same combination of egg and sperm?

I wasn't criticizing the length of this thread, I was saying that I don't care if it goes on for 80 (or 8000) more pages as long as we're all honest about what this is really about. And yeah, Malia Obama's name probably did help get her into colleges. But I'm not railing about Yara's letter of recommendation being unfair while downplaying the benefit of an ultra-famous (Republican) name. You are.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I wasn't criticizing the length of this thread, I was saying that I don't care if it goes on for 80 (or 8000) more pages as long as we're all honest about what this is really about. And yeah, Malia Obama's name probably did help get her into colleges. But I'm not railing about Yara's letter of recommendation being unfair while downplaying the benefit of an ultra-famous (Republican) name. You are.

There's going to be a come uppance one day. Probably not here, but somewhere.

 

[ruby59]

I wasn't criticizing the length of this thread, I was saying that I don't care if it goes on for 80 (or 8000) more pages as long as we're all honest about what this is really about. And yeah, Malia Obama's name probably did help get her into colleges. But I'm not railing about Yara's letter of recommendation being unfair while downplaying the benefit of an ultra-famous (Republican) name. You are.

Where did I mention Ivanka one way or another as to the benefits she gets as being First Daughter.

The only time I have mentioned Ivanka here is when she was verbally attacked on an airplane in the presence of her young children. No woman or man should have to put up with that.

As for her role in her father's presidency, imo, if she can calm him down and keep him more moderate in his thinking, then great. And by the way she is not taking a salary.

 

[E B]

It was pages ago when I asked if you thought the Trump children likely benefitting from their name was fair, and you said something to the effect of 'no, but parents do it for their kids all the time and it's nothing like what happened here.' And then I said, you're right- it's even less fair. You don't have to work for your ultra-famous name. Yara had to work her tail off to accomplish all she has, getting a letter from Michelle included. THAT we actually know.

 

[ruby59]

My first cousin got into Brown based on the fact that his father, a famous attorney in our State went there.

I understand legacies happen. They are big contributors.

Charter schools work the same way in our State. If a sibling got in, then their brother or sister is almost guaranteed a spot.

And that is why I would love to see blind admissions.

Someone keeps mentioning 4.6 GPA. And no mention of her SAT or ACT.

I am referring to students who got 5.0 GPA and perfect 1600s on the SATs. And the response here has been so have a lot of other kids.

No one said Yara did not work hard, but no harder than a lot of other students without the advantage of knowing the First Lady. And they did not get in.

 

[jaaron]

I was obviously responding to your subsequent post where you mentioned that when Harvard first opened Yara would not have been able to attend since she was black.

As far as the formatting, it was a cut and paste which obviously shows hyperlinks.

I am assuming you meant my previous post, since you were responding to it. And while you seem to have read the words, I'm not sure you seem to have understood the point. The point was not that Yara would not have been able to attend since she was black.

You said, "A lot of white people fail and a lot of black people are extremely successful. It is what you do about it to compensate for what you are lacking."

I tried to explain that what she is lacking are the privileges bestowed on white people for hundreds and hundreds of years for being... white. And in accordance with what you expressed above, I pointed out that she did exactly that: she was ingenious and courageous enough to figure out what she was lacking and find a way to compensate for it. Good for her! And saying but, but, but other people are lacking too! doesn't, to my mind, at least, detract from her accomplishment at all.

I also have to say, I agree that this thread is one big old vat of sour grapes. Particularly from someone who mentions being Jewish about every fourth post--I would think you would have more admiration for someone who isn't held back by her minority status.

And I don't know--I agree there is anti-semitism out there in America, plenty of it. But I'm Jewish, my great-grandparents were all immigrants, but by my grandparents generation, they were all pretty successful, integrated, and (while I understand there were definite quotas), some of them were even going to ivy league universities (in close to the same percentages as my husband's family, who are Mayflower-descended Southern gentility). I don't think most second-generation black families in America enjoyed anything even close to that kind of integration.

 

[jaaron]

My first cousin got into Brown based on the fact that his father, a famous attorney in our State went there.

I understand legacies happen. They are big contributors.

Charter schools work the same way in our State. If a sibling got in, then their brother or sister is almost guaranteed a spot.

And that is why I would love to see blind admissions.

Someone keeps mentioning 4.6 GPA. And no mention of her SAT or ACT.

I am referring to students who got 5.0 GPA and perfect 1600s on the SATs. And the response here has been so have a lot of other kids.

No one said Yara did not work hard, but no harder than a lot of other students without the advantage of knowing the First Lady. And they did not get in.

But that's part of the point - those numbers are only one part of an application.

 

[E B]

No one said Yara did not work hard, but no harder than a lot of other students without the advantage of knowing the First Lady. And they did not get in.

You mean the advantage of working hard enough to catch her eye and impress her? Michelle was obviously a big fan of Yara's. Do you think she was held at gunpoint to this opinion?

Bottom line, different colleges look for different things. It's not an objective process, and FOR GOOD REASON. Your perfect-score students didn't have whatever ________ University wanted. Yara did. Did the letter factor in? Almost certainly. That's the whole point of recommendation letters. But to assume that's the only reason while ignoring all of her other accomplishments is irrational at best.