Michelle's helps with college admission

[ruby59]

Are you just salty because someone you know, maybe your own kid, didn't get into a college of their choice? That's called life, it happens all of the time. I think most people are better off working on improving themselves to increase their odds than obsessing over why someone else got in.

So far both not only got into the college of their choice but each got a 3/4 academic scholarship.

If you had been paying attention this has nothing to do with my kids but when I worked in the various school systems and encountered these disappointed students asking where they went wrong. And the answer was obvious.

 

[jaaron]

Jealous, envious, hardly?

More like the fact that there should be transparency in the selection process.

Sigh.

The process is subjective. As a rule, admissions departments are trying to build a student body that is diverse in ethnicity, gender, talent, interests and thinking. They take everything they are given--grades, recommendations, test scores, essay, interviews, school, diploma (IB, standard or foreign), extracurriculars and activities--and try to form a cohesive picture of an individual and that individual's potential place in, and contribution to, the class they are trying to build. How do you propose they make that transparent?

I genuinely don't understand what changes you would introduce?

 

[ruby59]

Sigh.

The process is subjective. As a rule, admissions departments are trying to build a student body that is diverse in ethnicity, gender, talent, interests and thinking. They take everything they are given--grades, recommendations, test scores, essay, interviews, school, diploma (IB, standard or foreign), extracurriculars and activities--and try to form a cohesive picture of an individual and that individual's potential place in, and contribution to, the class they are trying to build. How do you propose they make that transparent?

I genuinely don't understand what changes you would introduce?

And you do not think any outside factors like a letter from the First Lady would overrule all that and make the candidate a shoo in.

 

[Arkteia]

deleted;

 

[jaaron]

And you do not think any outside factors like a letter from the First Lady would overrule all that and make the candidate a shoo in.

Well, since it's subjective, I think it's awfully hard to know what tips an application into a yes. I think in the case of an already strong candidate, it can certainly add value. If she had a C average, I doubt it would do the trick. But there are two points here -

One is that elite universities are often not necessarily looking for the straightforward stellar academic record you seem to think they are. They are looking for what makes a student different from all the others with essentially the straightforward stellar academic record. Something different, or above and beyond, a unique way of thinking, the ability to juggle different things--and Yara clearly demonstrates those qualities. And I have to say, having the nerve to ask the first lady for a letter of recommendation in itself might be seen favourably--as an indicator that she is assertive about finding ways to meet goals.

And two, is the question, if you think this is inherently unfair, what do you propose to change the system? Should all students decline to take advantage of anything that might give them a leg up or an advantage? Say no to parents who foster an atmosphere conducive to success? Say no to SAT prep classes? Say no to good school systems? Because there are an awful lot of kids who aren't given even that.

Because I think the reason people are shaking their heads on this thread is that you appear very worked up over a child having an advantage your children (or others you know) did not. You don't seem particularly worked up over the advantages your children (or others you know) have had that other children do not.

 

[E B]

Well said, jaaron!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

So far both not only got into the college of their choice but each got a 3/4 academic scholarship.

If you had been paying attention this has nothing to do with my kids but when I worked in the various school systems and encountered these disappointed students asking where they went wrong. And the answer was obvious.

You're right, I hadn't read the whole thread when I responded. But that kind of shows us something, I didn't know the whole story so I made an assumption. Which is what you are doing regarding this young lady. No matter what is shown in the press, you do not know the whole story, the only people who do are the young lady and Mrs. Obama.

As for the many students you saw not get in, I'm sorry but that really is just life. The only people who know why or why not are the ones on the admissions board, ask them if you want. I have a great friend who is already very successful, a practicing lawyer with a degree from Tulane. He studied for years for the GMAT to go to business school and get an MBA. His scores where in the top 98%. He did not get into any of his top 3 schools, despite more than meeting their requirements. He's now going to his 4th pick school across the country. He's not bitter and constantly looking back at "why me?", he's working hard and enjoying a new part of the country.

It's not always a bad thing to not get your top choice, it's a life lesson.

 

[ruby59]

Well, since it's subjective, I think it's awfully hard to know what tips an application into a yes. I think in the case of an already strong candidate, it can certainly add value. If she had a C average, I doubt it would do the trick. But there are two points here -

One is that elite universities are often not necessarily looking for the straightforward stellar academic record you seem to think they are. They are looking for what makes a student different from all the others with essentially the straightforward stellar academic record. Something different, or above and beyond, a unique way of thinking, the ability to juggle different things--and Yara clearly demonstrates those qualities. And I have to say, having the nerve to ask the first lady for a letter of recommendation in itself might be seen favourably--as an indicator that she is assertive about finding ways to meet goals.

And two, is the question, if you think this is inherently unfair, what do you propose to change the system? Should all students decline to take advantage of anything that might give them a leg up or an advantage? Say no to parents who foster an atmosphere conducive to success? Say no to SAT prep classes? Say no to good school systems? Because there are an awful lot of kids who aren't given even that.

Because I think the reason people are shaking their heads on this thread is that you appear very worked up over a child having an advantage your children (or others you know) did not. You don't seem particularly worked up over the advantages your children (or others you know) have had that other children do not.

Advantages - yes, my children worked their asses off. They got letters of recommendation from the teachers and employees who saw their test results, their preparedness in class. Their employees saw how after a long day at school and on Saturdays they were there every day ready to work.

What did Mrs. Obama see, except a shoutout from a friend in a public venue.

As far as my maintaining a quiet home - my mother lived with us for a time. Her alzheimers was not very conducive to a peaceful home, unfortunately.

My kids took prep courses that they paid for themselves.

And yes, there are kids living out of their car, with inadequate food. Bad School system.

But what does any of that have to do with Yara? If she were one of those students and got some help I would say great. But we are talking about an already privileged girl.

And I brought this discussion here to a message board. The only ones who seem to be worked up right now is you.

 

[E B]

And yes, there are kids living out of their car, with inadequate food. Bad School system.

But what does any of that have to do with Yara? If she were one of those students and got some help I would say great. But we are talking about an already privileged girl.

The bolded is a reason why universities want to see so much more than test scores, which jaaron very clearly outlined for you. Blind applications would mean striking any mention of sex, race, religion (goodbye personal essays, mentions of clubs or extracurricular activities that may hint at any of the mentioned, etc.), and would, essentially, make students into numbers, numbers that only paint a very small portion of a picture that a person is.

What did Mrs. Obama see? I'd imagine a girl who was balancing a full-time acting career with heavy involvement in community activities AND school, maintaining a 4.6 GPA. It's very clear this annoys you, but your children have also had advantages many, many students have not. That's one of the many reasons universities want the WHOLE picture.

I am curious about your answer to jaaron's question re: what you would change to make things more fair.

 

[ruby59]

The bolded is a reason why universities want to see so much more than test scores, which jaaron very clearly outlined for you. Blind applications would mean striking any mention of sex, race, religion (goodbye personal essays, mentions of clubs or extracurricular activities that may hint at any of the mentioned, etc.), and would, essentially, make students into numbers, numbers that only paint a very small portion of a picture that a person is.

What did Mrs. Obama see? I'd imagine a girl who was balancing a full-time acting career with heavy involvement in community activities AND school, maintaining a 4.6 GPA. It's very clear this annoys you, but your children have also had advantages many, many students have not. That's one of the many reasons universities want the WHOLE picture. No one broke any rules.

I am curious about your answer to jaaron's question re: what you would change to make things more fair.

If Mrs. Obama saw that, why didn't she offer first after Yara talked about how daunting the process was?

Why did Yara have to do the asking is this was all so apparent? And why didn't she do it in private rather than put Mrs. Obama on the spot in front of a live audience?

 

[ruby59]

I am curious about your answer to jaaron's question re: what you would change to make things more fair.
_____________________________________________________

Totally blind first step until you got to the interview stage where those with lower credentials can mitigate it based on the disadvantages they had to deal with.

And only letters from those who had a real presence in your life, not because your sister's aunt knows President Bush's barber.

 

[E B]

Totally blind first step until you got to the interview stage where those with lower credentials can mitigate it based on the disadvantages they had to deal with.

What does it take to move past the first step in this plan? Are test scores the first step?

 

[ruby59]

School rank, Test scores, SAT and ACT scores, letters from teachers, employers, coaches, a resume of your accomplishments, work ethics, volunteering in the community, a sample of your writing showing aspirations and goals.

Hardships you faced and overcame.

 

[E B]

And only letters from those who had a real presence in your life, not because your sister's aunt knows President Bush's barber.

Yara explained the impressive endorsement on Jimmy Kimmel Live!, noting that she got close to the former First Lady while working on Obama's Let Girls Learn education initiative.

Reality seems to fit your requirements moreso than your example.

 

[E B]

School rank, Test scores, SAT and ACT scores, letters from teachers, employees, coaches, a resume of your accomplishments, work ethics, volunteering in the community, a sample of your writing showing aspirations and goals.

Much of this wouldn't work with a blind application. Even one's name could give away race. It'd be limited to numbers only, no?

 

[ruby59]

Much of this wouldn't work with a blind application. Even one's name could give away race. It'd be limited to numbers only, no?

No name necessary in the first step. Initials and a number. Based solely on the person you are and why this university would help to make you the person you want to become.

 

[ruby59]

Yara explained the impressive endorsement on Jimmy Kimmel Live!, noting that she got close to the former First Lady while working on Obama's Let Girls Learn education initiative.

Reality seems to fit your requirements moreso than your example.

A lot of young people worked on that.

And do note when she referred to Mrs. Obama she did not say employer, she said friend.

 

[E B]

No name necessary in the first step. Initials and a number. Based solely on the person you are and why this university would help to make you the person you want to become.

And any extracurricular activity with a name that'd hint at any of this info would be...redacted? No mention of any of these extracurriculars or anything- including religion- that means anything to you in your personal essays, or in your letters of recommendation, as long as it'd give away any of this information? Whose job is it to comb through each of these applications and send them back again and again until each one is completely scrubbed? And if they're not completely scrubbed, are the students automatically disqualified?

Easier said than done, right? And this ignores the yuuuuge fact that colleges WANT to know everything you'd wish to keep blind. Because it all matters.

 

[ruby59]

No need to scrub any of that. I never said you need to hide who you are.

Yara could have listed all that information about herself - simply stating she is an actress on a TV show.

She could also name the education imitative as I am sure she is far from the only one who volunteers.

You are the one trying to make it too complicated.

No need to hide your religion. You do know there are black Jews. And Catholics and Protestants run the gambit of a lot of different people - black, brown, white, etc.

Atheists and agnostics are not limited to any one type of background either.

And then there are those that fit into other religions that can be easily mentioned but still make it a fair process.

 

[partgypsy]

Ruby what you are asking for is impractical, and against what the colleges themselves are seeking, which is a picture of the applicant as a person. That's why many places request a photo. The university and college do want to pick a diverse selection of students who will contribute not just by good grades and tests (which is not a great predictor of success), but contribute to the college culture and community as being well-rounded in a way that predicts future success. Yara had all of those qualifications. And yes, legacy and other connected students I'm sure ALSO have a leg up. As do good looking people. It is never going to be completely fair. I find it odd that you only seem to have a problem with non-blind college applications in this one specific instance, to the tune of 6 pages. Honestly there are bigger fish to fry. like the current administration trying to dismantle the EPA, and prevent NASA from doing climatological research. Perspective!

 

[E B]

You're the one who said totally blind. No need for full names- just initials- lest your name reveal your race. I just moved that rule to the rest of the required information. It all matters because it all helps to shape who a person is. And the person Yara is is an actress and student who through hard work was was able to work with Michelle Obama, impressed her, asked for a recommendation letter (though I don't see where you're seeing she asked on stage- where is that?) and got one. No one was forced, no rules were broken. The end.

 

[ruby59]

Ruby what you are asking for is impractical, and against what the colleges themselves are seeking, which is a picture of the applicant as a person. That's why many places request a photo. The university and college do want to pick a diverse selection of students who will contribute not just by good grades and tests (which is not a great predictor of success), but contribute to the college culture and community as being well-rounded in a way that predicts future success. Yara had all of those qualifications. And yes, legacy and other connected students I'm sure ALSO have a leg up. As do good looking people. It is never going to be completely fair. I find it odd that you only seem to have a problem with non-blind college applications in this one specific instance, to the tune of 6 pages. Honestly there are bigger fish to fry. like the current administration trying to dismantle the EPA, and prevent NASA from doing climatological research. Perspective!

And you know that, how?

And what does the number of pages have to do with anything? People are responding asking me questions and I am in turn responding back to them? Should I have just not bothered?

Why do you not call any of them out?

There is a 10,000 post thread going on right now. I would never barge into it and ask why people are still responding. The perfume thread is still going strong. Bigger fish to fry, I am sure. But it is their business. If this thread does not interest you, find one that does.

6 pages is hardly a record.

 

[E B]

And you know that, how?

First page, second post.

 

[E B]

No need to scrub any of that. I never said you need to hide who you are.

Yara could have listed all that information about herself - simply stating she is an actress on a TV show.

She could also name the education imitative as I am sure she is far from the only one who volunteers.

You are the one trying to make it too complicated.

No need to hide your religion. You do know there are black Jews. And Catholics and Protestants run the gambit of a lot of different people - black, brown, white, etc.

Speaking of the first page:

As someone who has 3 kids and has observed the process - admissions should be totally blind.

No name, no sex, no religion. Just the facts. Grades, test scores, and accomplishments.

 

[ruby59]

The college application process is cutthroat, but Yara Shahidi has one silver bullet that'll separate her from the rest of the 4.0-GPA-having, SAT-obliterating, club-forming pack — that is, in addition to the whole starring on a beloved TV-show thing. The Black-ish actress submitted two letters of recommendation for her applications: one from her AP Calculus teacher, Ms. Lee, and one from a certain Michelle Obama.


To those who do not think that letter made a difference

 

[ruby59]

So how exactly did Yara Shahidi, one of the young stars of ABC’s hit comedy “black-ish,” get former first lady Michelle Obama to write a letter of recommendation for her college applications? A score any high school senior would die for?

Well, first she just asked — on a stage, in front of a live audience.

And to answer your question.

 

[Calliecake]

Ruby, Do you mean to tell me at your age you still haven't learned that life isn't always far? This girl sounds like a great young woman. Can't you just be happy for anyone? I can't imagine going through life worrying about how someone might have it easier than I do, Talk about a miserable existence.

Great posts Jaaron!!!

 

[ruby59]

Ruby, Do you mean to tell me at your age you still haven't learned that life isn't always far? This girl sounds like a great young woman. Can't you just be happy for anyone? I can't imagine going through life worrying about how someone might have it easier than I do, Talk about a miserable existence.

Great posts Jaaron!!!

If you can only add to the discussion bu insulting me, do not waste your time as I will no longer reply to you.

 

[OreoRosies86]

OMFG THEY WORKED TOGETHER!

 

[E B]

If you are a Jew, but it is simply a fact rather than a big part of your life, mentioning it as a crutch because you know someone inflential on the admissions team is Jewish should not be included.

But if you work in the Temple, teach Hebrew School, etc. then it is part of your resume.

How would anyone but the applicant know this?

Yara had access to Michelle Obama, your children were able to work, I assume by choice/part-time, to help pay for SAT prep courses while some have to work full time to help put food on the table. Imagine how annoying all this speculation would be to THOSE students.