Men and dolls

[kenny]

I thought this CNN piece was an astonishing and eye-opening photo project.
Click through the 16 pics.
It is amazing the photographer won the trust of these men.

I am resisting my tendency to condemn these men.
They aren't hurting anyone, and perhaps it's better they are not with real women.
I don't know.
I've always been curious about people living on the fringes of society.
This photojournalist has opened a dark curtain, and I appreciate her work.

Some of her pics have a Diane Arbus quality. https://www.google.com/search?q=Diane+Arbus+photographs&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=tBJPUpP7CoL-iQKgoYH4BQ&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=2531&bih=1326&dpr=1
Arbus lived 1923 - 1971 and also documented people on the fringe.
Such pics make us uncomfortable, as we are forced to confront our discomfort with people who do not fit our idea of what's normal.

http://cnnphotos.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/03/inside-the-world-of-men-and-dolls/?hpt=hp_c3
SNIP
Inside the world of men and dolls
Imagine "Guys and Dolls" with a more literal interpretation.
Benita Marcussen photographed men who use life-size dolls as partners in her fittingly titled series, “Men & Dolls.”
It took Marcussen six months to gain the trust of the men she would later photograph. She initially made contact with them via an online forum for the so-called “love dolls.”

Caption: Carl, right, is 55 and lives in a big house with his parents, Geoffrey and Doreen, pictured, in Oxford, England. (Benita Marcussen)

 

[monarch64]

Reminds me of people who enjoy collecting these:

http://www.reborn-baby.com/

It's not hurting anyone, so I say "whatever." People within the fringes use dolls for all sorts of role play. Dolls can be helpful (learning to administer CPR, crash test dummies), or used for darker purposes (voodoo dolls?). I'm guessing inflatable dolls have been around for quite some time for people to use in a sexual manner.

I remember seeing a series of documentaries on HBO several years ago called "Real Sex." Men like these were interviewed, along with their dolls, in one episode. It was interesting. Back then, that was the first time I'd seen/heard of such a thing and remember being simultaneously repulsed and fascinated. As you say, Kenny, things tend to make us uncomfortable when we're totally unfamiliar with them. Seeing these pictures now or thinking about the subject does not bother me in the least. I guess I was desensitized?

 

[ericad]

Lars and the Real Girl was a fab film. Highly recommend.

I find this totally fascinating.

 

[kenny]

To threadjack, if you scroll down there are 4 wonderful little videos in which Diane Arbus' daughter talks about her mother and her work.

http://www.body-pixel.com/2009/10/22/body-cinema-masters-of-photography-diane-arbus/

 

[marymm]

Lars and the Real Girl was a fab film. Highly recommend.

Big ditto!

 

[Circe]

I remembered this article from back in the day ... seemed topical to link to it: http://www.salon.com/2005/10/11/real_dolls/

 

[momhappy]

I've seen the "Real Dolls" before and the documentary on tv and I must say, I think that it clearly indicates mental/emotional problems. I'm not talking about an occasional "fling" with a blow-up doll, but rather the guy who parades around his doll like it's an actual person. Sure, it's an interesting topic, but to be honest, I find it creepy and disturbing if someone formed a "relationship" with a life-size doll. I would have to wonder if those sorts of behaviors led to other, dysfunctional behaviors that are related to controlling women and/or treating them like objects since that's what they are used to doing on a regular basis.

 

[justginger]

I've seen the "Real Dolls" before and the documentary on tv and I must say, I think that it clearly indicates mental/emotional problems. I'm not talking about an occasional "fling" with a blow-up doll, but rather the guy who parades around his doll like it's an actual person. Sure, it's an interesting topic, but to be honest, I find it creepy and disturbing if someone formed a "relationship" with a life-size doll. I would have to wonder if those sorts of behaviors led to other, dysfunctional behaviors that are related to controlling women and/or treating them like objects since that's what they are used to doing on a regular basis.

I definitely understand your viewpoint, and that was my initial reaction when I was first exposed to them years ago. But...I wonder if these men have a complete disconnect between dolls and women. Some of them have never had partners before, they're painfully shy, and I'm not certain they actually view the dolls as a replacement for a woman. I feel like some of them are coming from the viewpoint that they're completely different 'beings.'

By all accounts, many of these men exhibit real love for the dolls. Psychologically I can't understand it, but there are a great number of people in this world that don't understand how Westerners can love, and mourn for, domestic animals. In both scenarios a need for companionship and 'affection' is met and no one is hurt.

 

[Dee*Jay]

I've seen the "Real Dolls" before and the documentary on tv and I must say, I think that it clearly indicates mental/emotional problems. I'm not talking about an occasional "fling" with a blow-up doll, but rather the guy who parades around his doll like it's an actual person. Sure, it's an interesting topic, but to be honest, I find it creepy and disturbing if someone formed a "relationship" with a life-size doll. I would have to wonder if those sorts of behaviors led to other, dysfunctional behaviors that are related to controlling women and/or treating them like objects since that's what they are used to doing on a regular basis.

I actually looked at this in the opposite way; instead of men treating women like objects I see them treating objects like women.

 

[lulu]

I watched a documentary about these guys and their dolls. I actually think this is a good release valve for men who would otherwise perpetrate violence on women. More crazy people out there than you can shake a stick at.

 

[Dee*Jay]

I watched a documentary about these guys and their dolls. I actually think this is a good release valve for men who would otherwise perpetrate violence on women. More crazy people out there than you can shake a stick at.

*For the most part* I don't get the impression these people would be other perpetrating violence on women. There was "JTR" in the article that Circe linked to (great article Circe -- thank you for posting that), and I am certainly not qualified to speak to what he might or might not being engaged in with a real person, but I don't get the impression these are a band of barbarians who would be out raping and pillaging if they didn't have their dolls at home.

(I do have to confess I was horrified by the dog breeder though, and there was a recent article of a man having "relations" with a pit bull at a local animal shelter [http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Man-Charged-with-Having-Sex-with-Pit-Bull-209803251.html]. This aso reminds me of an incident several years ago of a man at the Lincoln Park Zoo having his way with a cow in the petting zoo after hours, but I have gone FAR afield of the real topic here.)

"Painfully shy" and "socially awkward" are the phrases that come to my mind for these men, and while I am not the type to go out and get myself a 6' tall Ken of my own (although after that stretch on match dot com let me assure you the idea was not that unappealing... ), I'm not really that spun up over this. If their lives are somehow "improved" (whatever that might mean) and no people or animals are being harmed, frankly I'm fine with it.

 

[momhappy]

I watched a documentary about these guys and their dolls. I actually think this is a good release valve for men who would otherwise perpetrate violence on women. More crazy people out there than you can shake a stick at.

I guess that my point was sort of opposite of this. I see the behavior of perceiving dolls as humans as maybe influential in having dysfunctional thoughts about actual human beings (or women). In other words, if a man is used to controlling and/or interacting with a doll (in the documentary, they showed how they have complete control over the dolls - choosing clothes, fixing hair, dominating "conversations" with them, etc.), then is it possible that it could contribute to dysfunctional (or controlling) behaviors towards actual women (and maybe even lead to more serious acts like violence against women, etc.)? It just seems to me that while the behavior of being in a "relationship" with a doll might appear harmless, it indicates a potential mental/emotional problem that could be considered harmful in some scenarios. I should point out that I have no data/documentation to support this notion - it's just my thoughts about mental/emotional issues and how they might relate to society as a whole.

 

[Smith1942]

I think most of these men are probably very shy and very, very lonely. Even with their dolls, they're probably still lonely. After all, the doll doesn't move and can't talk back. According to the CNN feature posted, one man said that having three of these life-sized dolls around the house made his life seem less lonely, or words to that effect. I felt really sorry for him when I read that.

I am told that acute shyness can be absolutely paralyzing, socially. Maybe this is just easier.

As to whether any of these men are using the dolls as a safe release for otherwise violent tendencies, I can't speculate on that because I don't know any of them personally. It's possible. It isn't normal behaviour so I see why some would think the chances of violence against women are higher in men who are attached to controllable fake women. But I haven't heard any stories about higher doll ownership among convicted rapists and murderers. I think there are plenty of criminals of this type out there who have nothing to do with dolls!

In all probability, the men are more likely- in my humble opinion - to find real relationships and the world in general to be just overwhelming. After all, relationships can place a severe strain on you, let's face it, even if it's a good one but you have bad luck, like an illness that lasts for years, for example. And trying to figure out other human beings sometimes is just, well...

They may also be afraid of being hurt. However, that applies to most of us, I would think. Instinctively, I feel that these men just find it unusually difficult to cope with the world and very hard to cope with the messy reality of other people, overwhelmingly so. Clearly, they have been unable to move past their fears and handle the real world like most of us learn to do. (This is my instinctive reaction - not saying it's correct.)

So although this topic is quite depressing and disturbing, I think my overriding feeling is just that I feel really, really sorry for them.

 

[momhappy]

Found this movie (not a documentary) about the topic, which actually looks kind of funny/interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1XxILVnt1w

 

[Circe]

Glad you liked the article, Deej - here's another one that's a little further afield, but still relevant, I think, concerning furries. http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2001/03/furries200103

I don't think either group is hurting anyone. I do think the furries are a little ... healthier, for lack of a better word? if only because their kink involves interacting with others. The guys with the dolls strike me as being a little further removed, because their interest (this is not a hobby, from my perspective: it's something between a relationship and a kink) is somewhat isolating.

Sex researched Katherine Gates is quoted in the article, saying "some plushophiles may not be “relationship-suitable”: “In some cases—and this might be cruel to say—but we may be wired for the zeta male, the lowest male, to turn to other pursuits besides the pursuit of another human being. These people need a way of having intimacy and pleasure, too.” Though I don't think that explains the phenomenon in its entirety, I think it's at least as applicable to the doll people.

I actually looked at this in the opposite way; instead of men treating women like objects I see them treating objects like women.

THIS is genius, I think ... though I wonder if that's more common than one might think? Not necessarily with dolls, but with favored objects like cars or guns? Less as a sign of individual psychosis, more as a sign of general misogyny where women's desire or lack thereof when it comes to, say, having all of the hair on their genitals torn off with hot wax is trumped by what random men find aesthetically pleasing (the flip side of which, of course, is that we're bending over backwards to be tolerant of these dudes and their fairly odd lifestyles, but let a woman get a second feline and skip the lipstick and she's a crazy cat lady who's given up and is Not Fit for the Eyes of Men).

And the other thing I wonder ... is it coincidental that both groups are fixating on traditional childhood toys? I mean, my dollies didn't have orifices (well, except for Betsy Wetsy, who is, I think, fairly self-explanatory), but ....

 

[Polished]

And the other thing I wonder ... is it coincidental that both groups are fixating on traditional childhood toys? I mean, my dollies didn't have orifices (well, except for Betsy Wetsy, who is, I think, fairly self-explanatory), but ....

I wonder whether the thought that if people don't experience a period of their life properly, (in this case childhood) they find it more difficult to leave it behind in order to get on with the next phase of life, might apply here.

I think some people's experience of the opposite sex and relationships can become so negative that it actually renders them incapable of trusting and forming a relationship again. For some it might not be enough to acknowledge this fact to themselves and instead a doll or toy fulfils a need to put up an actual physical defence against it; a tangible expression that there is no place or need in their lives for a real person.

 

[momhappy]

And the other thing I wonder ... is it coincidental that both groups are fixating on traditional childhood toys? I mean, my dollies didn't have orifices (well, except for Betsy Wetsy, who is, I think, fairly self-explanatory), but ....

I wonder whether the thought that if people don't experience a period of their life properly, (in this case childhood) they find it more difficult to leave it behind in order to get on with the next phase of life, might apply here.

I think some people's experience of the opposite sex and relationships can become so negative that it actually renders them incapable of trusting and forming a relationship again. For some it might not be enough to acknowledge this fact to themselves and instead a doll or toy fulfils a need to put up an actual physical defence against it; a tangible expression that there is no place or need in their lives for a real person.

You'd think that if that was the case, that there would be a lot more women with Real Dolls (it's my understanding that it's a fairly male-dominated phenomenon - although women do buy them).

 

[lulu]

http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1893&context=theses

Someone actually wrote their thesis about doll owners and it's very interesting.

 

[movie zombie]

Lars and the Real Girl was a fab film. Highly recommend.

I find this totally fascinating.

great film!

 

[Dee*Jay]

Glad you liked the article, Deej - here's another one that's a little further afield, but still relevant, I think, concerning furries. http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2001/03/furries200103

I don't think either group is hurting anyone. I do think the furries are a little ... healthier, for lack of a better word? if only because their kink involves interacting with others. The guys with the dolls strike me as being a little further removed, because their interest (this is not a hobby, from my perspective: it's something between a relationship and a kink) is somewhat isolating.

Sex researched Katherine Gates is quoted in the article, saying "some plushophiles may not be “relationship-suitable”: “In some cases—and this might be cruel to say—but we may be wired for the zeta male, the lowest male, to turn to other pursuits besides the pursuit of another human being. These people need a way of having intimacy and pleasure, too.” Though I don't think that explains the phenomenon in its entirety, I think it's at least as applicable to the doll people.

I actually looked at this in the opposite way; instead of men treating women like objects I see them treating objects like women.

THIS is genius, I think ... though I wonder if that's more common than one might think? Not necessarily with dolls, but with favored objects like cars or guns? Less as a sign of individual psychosis, more as a sign of general misogyny where women's desire or lack thereof when it comes to, say, having all of the hair on their genitals torn off with hot wax is trumped by what random men find aesthetically pleasing (the flip side of which, of course, is that we're bending over backwards to be tolerant of these dudes and their fairly odd lifestyles, but let a woman get a second feline and skip the lipstick and she's a crazy cat lady who's given up and is Not Fit for the Eyes of Men).

And the other thing I wonder ... is it coincidental that both groups are fixating on traditional childhood toys? I mean, my dollies didn't have orifices (well, except for Betsy Wetsy, who is, I think, fairly self-explanatory), but ....

A lot of childhood toys and playing are about pretending to be an adult though. Having a baby (doll) to care for, dressing up as a fireman, making a cake in an easy bake oven...

 

[perry]

While clearly not for me, and "outside of my personal comfort zone" - it is overall probably a healthy outlet for these men. When dealing with people on the emotional/psychological fringe; the question is not "how do you get them to be normal" - it is "how do you get them to live a life that does not harm others." So let them have dolls - and any other men who need them. Far better than trying to force some kind of relationship with a real woman which may well be more destructive (and not just to them - but also to the other woman).

Besides; this clearly solves the STD and Pregnancy questions.

Perry

 

[arkieb1]

I read the thesis and I saw part of the doco it was on late one night and it was fascinating in a slightly creepy way - a few of them have had relationships with real women and say in all the interviews that they prefer dolls because they don't want to get used again by real women. Many are lonely people that can't relate to real people. Maybe they liked the photographer being there because she at the time seemed to share a non judgemental interest in their lives...

Interestingly there are VERY few women that own sex dolls!!!! And they are quite popular in places like Japan....

Each to their own. They aren't hurting anyone and the things cost a fortune so if it makes them happy so be it. People that harm animals and children are far more offensive than these guys will ever be.

 

[momhappy]

I'm shocked that some people think that having a relationship with a life-size doll is "healthy" outlet? A grown man having a relationship with a doll is not at all healthy in my opinion. And again, I'm not referring to someone who uses the dolls for an occasional sexual fling (much like someone would use a blow-up doll) - I'm talking about someone who treats the doll like an actual person.
I saw a documentary once on women who own infant dolls (made to look like real babies) and they treated them as such (they went through all of the normal routines a parent would - feeding, dressing, putting them down for nap/bed, buckling them into car seats, etc.). In some of the interviews, the women either were not able to have their own children or something tragic happened (like their own child died, etc.) and the women seemed to have mental/psychological issues. I don't see that as any more healthy than a man having a full-on relationship with a Real Doll.
I also find it slightly disturbing that the creators of Real Dolls have gone to great lengths to make the dolls to be what they refer to as "anatomically correct." To the people who work at Real Doll, they consider "anotamically correct" to mean that the vaginas are made correctly/functioning, etc. To me, if something is anatomically correct it means that all body parts/organs/systems are in a physiologically accurate manner - not just vaginas (or penises). Saying that a doll is anatomically correct simply because the vagina is present and working implies that the only thing that matters is her genitals.

 

[Dee*Jay]

While clearly not for me, and "outside of my personal comfort zone" - it is overall probably a healthy outlet for these men. When dealing with people on the emotional/psychological fringe; the question is not "how do you get them to be normal" - it is "how do you get them to live a life that does not harm others." So let them have dolls - and any other men who need them. Far better than trying to force some kind of relationship with a real woman which may well be more destructive (and not just to them - but also to the other woman).

Besides; this clearly solves the STD and Pregnancy questions.

Perry

Yes. And I think the second part of what I bolded can be better related to a slight modifciation to the first part I bolded: it is overall probably a healthIER outlet for these men.


EDIT: Let be be clear I am not trying to put words in Perry's mouth (he is more than capable of speaking for himself), I was simply using a modification of his text in terms of *my* point.

 

[Dee*Jay]

I'm shocked that some people think that having a relationship with a life-size doll is "healthy" outlet? A grown man having a relationship with a doll is not at all healthy in my opinion. And again, I'm not referring to someone who uses the dolls for an occasional sexual fling (much like someone would use a blow-up doll) - I'm talking about someone who treats the doll like an actual person.
I saw a documentary once on women who own infant dolls (made to look like real babies) and they treated them as such (they went through all of the normal routines a parent would - feeding, dressing, putting them down for nap/bed, buckling them into car seats, etc.). In some of the interviews, the women either were not able to have their own children or something tragic happened (like their own child died, etc.) and the women seemed to have mental/psychological issues. I don't see that as any more healthy than a man having a full-on relationship with a Real Doll.
I also find it slightly disturbing that the creators of Real Dolls have gone to great lengths to make the dolls to be what they refer to as "anatomically correct." To the people who work at Real Doll, they consider "anotamically correct" to mean that the vaginas are made correctly/functioning, etc. To me, if something is anatomically correct it means that all body parts/organs/systems are in a physiologically accurate manner - not just vaginas (or penises). Saying that a doll is anatomically correct simply because the vagina is present and working implies that the only thing that matters is her genitals.

Regarding "healthy," please see my reference to healthIER for Perry's post.

Let's be perfectly honest here, "anatomically correct" is being used in a very specific context. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that no person's experience would be *improved* in these dolls were sporting a pancreas.

Frankly, and I have no idea why this is, but IT IS, I would be [more] creeped out if these dolls were TRUELY anatomically correct right down to the capillaries. As they are, I can see these dolls as objects (and keeping in mind I'm only stating how *I* see these dolls; I'm not making any commentary on how the "owners" see the dolls), but going to the level of genuine anatomical correctness moves in the direction of "too much" for me.

 

[momhappy]

^I'm certainly not suggesting that the dolls should be anatomically correct in every way. My point was that anatomically correct means more than just genitals and reducing to the dolls to their vaginas is disturbing.
Also, I get what you're saying about healthier, but healthier than what? What would these men be otherwise doing? If someone is so socially withdrawn, mentally/emotionally unstable, etc. then there is likely a need for professional help. Forming a relationship with a Real Doll is not helping someone to overcome their issues. It's creating a fantasy world in which they can become further withdrawn from societal norms.

 

[Dee*Jay]

^I'm certainly not suggesting that the dolls should be anatomically correct in every way. My point was that anatomically correct means more than just genitals and reducing to the dolls to their vaginas is disturbing.
Also, I get what you're saying about healthier, but healthier than what? What would these men be otherwise doing? If someone is so socially withdrawn, mentally/emotionally unstable, etc. then there is likely a need for professional help. Forming a relationship with a Real Doll is not helping someone to overcome their issues. It's creating a fantasy world in which they can become further withdrawn from societal norms.

I don't subscribe to the idea that everyone who isn't "normal" (whatever THAT means) needs *help." There are plenty of "issues" in my humble opinion that DON'T need to be "overcome." I guess I just accept the concept of different strokes for different folks (and I've made this point before in this thread) as long as no other people or animals are being harmed.

BTW momhappy, I hope you know I'm not "arguing" with you, just engaging in "conversation." It's so hard to have a dialogue like this on a forum becuase the tone can get lost without in-person interaction!


Circe - I read the article on Furries. I had heard of this before but never really read anything in-depth. The most interesting part to me is that some of these people feel like they really *are* or *should be* an animal. Just as there is the ability to surgically change genders, I could really see some of these people being willing to change into their "animal form" if it were possible.


Reading all this stuff is starting to make me feel *abnormal* that I'm so boring and *normal*!!!

 

[momhappy]

^I'm certainly not suggesting that the dolls should be anatomically correct in every way. My point was that anatomically correct means more than just genitals and reducing to the dolls to their vaginas is disturbing.
Also, I get what you're saying about healthier, but healthier than what? What would these men be otherwise doing? If someone is so socially withdrawn, mentally/emotionally unstable, etc. then there is likely a need for professional help. Forming a relationship with a Real Doll is not helping someone to overcome their issues. It's creating a fantasy world in which they can become further withdrawn from societal norms.

I don't subscribe to the idea that everyone who isn't "normal" (whatever THAT means) needs *help." There are plenty of "issues" in my humble opinion that DON'T need to be "overcome." I guess I just accept the concept of different strokes for different folks (and I've made this point before in this thread) as long as no other people or animals are being harmed.

BTW momhappy, I hope you know I'm not "arguing" with you, just engaging in "conversation." It's so hard to have a dialogue like this on a forum becuase the tone can get lost without in-person interaction!


Circe - I read the article on Furries. I had heard of this before but never really read anything in-depth. The most interesting part to me is that some of these people feel like they really *are* or *should be* an animal. Just as there is the ability to surgically change genders, I could really see some of these people being willing to change into their "animal form" if it were possible.


Reading all this stuff is starting to make me feel *abnormal* that I'm so boring and *normal*!!!

Oh, I certainly can appreciate the dialogue - and know that it's not an argument. That's the problem with the forums sometimes. The normal back-and-forth dialogue/conversation is often misinterpreted as an argument and people take it personally. I've actually enjoyed our discussion
I also agree with you that not all abnormal behavior (or what might be considered "abnormal" in accordance with societal norms) needs to be addressed. However, I think that having a full-on relationship with a life-size doll falls under what I would consider a fairly major dysfunction that throws up red flags. Unfortunately, we live in a society where a seemingly harmless individual suddenly "snaps" and engages in behaviors that they might not otherwise engage in (I'm thinking in terms of committing acts of violence against others, etc.). Obviously not everyone who owns a Real Doll is going to go out raping and pillaging, but someone who is so socially withdrawn that they need to form an emotional attachment to a doll, could likely benefit from some help.

 

[Dee*Jay]

^I'm certainly not suggesting that the dolls should be anatomically correct in every way. My point was that anatomically correct means more than just genitals and reducing to the dolls to their vaginas is disturbing.
Also, I get what you're saying about healthier, but healthier than what? What would these men be otherwise doing? If someone is so socially withdrawn, mentally/emotionally unstable, etc. then there is likely a need for professional help. Forming a relationship with a Real Doll is not helping someone to overcome their issues. It's creating a fantasy world in which they can become further withdrawn from societal norms.

I don't subscribe to the idea that everyone who isn't "normal" (whatever THAT means) needs *help." There are plenty of "issues" in my humble opinion that DON'T need to be "overcome." I guess I just accept the concept of different strokes for different folks (and I've made this point before in this thread) as long as no other people or animals are being harmed.

BTW momhappy, I hope you know I'm not "arguing" with you, just engaging in "conversation." It's so hard to have a dialogue like this on a forum becuase the tone can get lost without in-person interaction!


Circe - I read the article on Furries. I had heard of this before but never really read anything in-depth. The most interesting part to me is that some of these people feel like they really *are* or *should be* an animal. Just as there is the ability to surgically change genders, I could really see some of these people being willing to change into their "animal form" if it were possible.


Reading all this stuff is starting to make me feel *abnormal* that I'm so boring and *normal*!!!

Oh, I certainly can appreciate the dialogue - and know that it's not an argument. That's the problem with the forums sometimes. The normal back-and-forth dialogue/conversation is often misinterpreted as an argument and people take it personally. I've actually enjoyed our discussion
I also agree with you that not all abnormal behavior (or what might be considered "abnormal" in accordance with societal norms) needs to be addressed. However, I think that having a full-on relationship with a life-size doll falls under what I would consider a fairly major dysfunction that throws up red flags. Unfortunately, we live in a society where a seemingly harmless individual suddenly "snaps" and engages in behaviors that they might not otherwise engage in (I'm thinking in terms of committing acts of violence against others, etc.). Obviously not everyone who owns a Real Doll is going to go out raping and pillaging, but someone who is so socially withdrawn that they need to form an emotional attachment to a doll, could likely benefit from some help.

Oh good! I was afraid I may have offended you along the way, and of course I would never mean to do that!

Not to mention, how often do we get to throw the phrase "raping and pillaging" around in general discussion? Not the sort of thing that comes up much in typical conversation in my life!

 

[perry]

but someone who is so socially withdrawn that they need to form an emotional attachment to a doll, could likely benefit from some help.

I believe you (and others) are jumping to conclusions as to why these men have these dolls. It may not be because they are socially withdrawn. There may be other reasons - and I am not going to speculate on what they may be. Let's just say that in my time on this earth I have seen many problems where my initial assumptions turned out to be totally wrong. I make a lot fewer assumptions now. What I know of male sexuality, and sexuality issues - leads me to believe that their may well be other reasons these people have these dolls.

As for "could likely benefit from some help..." Let me ask... And who could not?

Followed up by: Is it worth it? Does any of you have any idea how much a competent therapist cost; and how many hours of work it takes to make much progress? I assure you that Insurance does not cover a fraction of what is needed even for issues that threaten immediate health - if it covers anything. Need a real specialist (perhaps a "Sex Therapist" in this case; real counseling specialist in any subject are difficult to find and typically exist only in major cities - and are never "in coverage" of an insurance plan).

Is the problem significant enough to spend $10,000+ in just 6 months trying to get some resolution; and do that again every 6 months afterwards for long term improvement? If anyone has that kind of spare $ available please let me know as I spent in that range this summer (and used 3 weeks of vacation day by day to travel to a larger city) hiring professional counseling to work out "bumps" in our past and in our different cultures that were colliding and would sure like to fill the small black hole I have in my finances as a result. Even after all of that the bumps are not gone, and will never be: - we just have ground down the sharpest corners and hopefully learned how to long term live with them.

My other issues is that within the US/Western Europe (and truthfully other parts of the world) is some kind of strange belief that "we" know what is normal and why it should be normal.

But do we? What is really normal in the world: Approximately 83% of all cultures in the world allow for some form of sex outside of marriage while being married (technically the term - often misused and misunderstood is polygamy which only means having multiple sex partners while married. Many US/Western European people assume means a man having multiple actual wives - it does not; that is polygyny).

Is Sex Dolls used in other cultures as part of a normal practice?

If you really wish to expand your mind on what are past and current normal sexual practices in the world - there is no better place to start than the Kinsey Institute. By the time you follow half of the links and leads from their site you will have learned a lot (if you wish to go there - and learn what is normal elsewhere or even withing other cultures within the US). Of course, Kinsey is just a start - but they are a legitimate sex research organization so their references and links have a high degree of validity.

http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/

Have fun for anyone who is up to the challenge...

Perry