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Mean girls -help me help my daughter

kipari

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Can I just say, that the school not wanting to get involved in what amounts to bullying on their premises, is disgusting. This would never be tolerated here. It only takes one sniff of a phone call from an upset parent to the Head Teacher, as is what happened where I work this very week, for parents to be brought in & solutions discussed. Bullying at schools here has zero tolerance & often results in suspension or in extreme cases, expulsion.

I am really sorry your daughter is having to go through this. I hope she can be the bigger person & keep her head up high. Bowing to the drama is exactly what a bully wants you to do, as they thrive on the reaction they achieve.
Thanks @Alex T !I wish we had this kind of leverage on our school (meaning the parents of the neutral kids plus the parents of the " deputy" and some boys' parents too).

My daughter is already trying to be super neutral. But she WON'T LEAVE HER ALONE.
Example: They were both injured so no PE. They were allowed to do homework in another teacher's class. QB wants to copy daughter's homework. Daughter sais "no".
Daughter gets home and her book with said homework is missing. She panics. I tell her that the other girl must have "accidentally" taken the book. I call, txt, WhatsApp the mom. No response. I email. Daughter's distraught. It was an assignment over several days. Next morning boom eMails back: yes, sorry xyz accidentally took the book.

Plus adds condescendingly: well those things seem "very important to you", I saw you called, texted and WhatsApped, too....

Well, yes.bit actually is.

Had this been the only incident, one might think: coincidence. But it's one of so many.

She also bullied her gang members into giving her the access codes for their online accounts for a school competition.Stole their correct answers, then put wrong answers in.

She was nine .

Teacher REALLY tried to do something (talked about it in class and excluded her from the competition, but wanted to have the incident signalled). Superintendent told her not to. No bad publicity for the school!!!
 
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nala

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Can you list the mean girl’s actions? Your post characterizes them as manipulative but if you shared actual facts, perhaps we could advise you better. Perhaps that is what the school needs—something concrete so that they can establish rules for these behaviors.
ETA: only read your first post
 
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Alex T

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Thanks @Alex T !I wish we had this kind of leverage on our school (meaning the parents of the neutral kids plus the parents of the " deputy" and some boys' parents too).

My daughter is already trying to be super neutral. But she WON'T LEAVE HER ALONE.
Example: They were both injured so no PE. They were allowed to do homework in another teacher's class. QB wants to copy daughter's homework. Daughter sais "no".
Daughter gets home and her book with said homework is missing. She panics. I tell her that the other girl must have "accidentally" taken the book. I call, txt, WhatsApp the mom. No response. I email. Daughter's distraught. It was an assignment over several days. Next morning boom eMails back: yes, sorry xyz accidentally took the book.

Plus adds condescendingly: well those things seem "very important to you", I saw you called, texted and WhatsApped, too....

Well, yes.bit actually is.

Had this been the only incident, one might think: coincidence. But it's one of so many.

She also bullied her gang members into giving her the access codes for their online accounts for a school competition.Stole their correct answers, then put wrong answers in.

She was nine .

Teacher REALLY tried to do something (talked about it in class and excluded her from the competition, but wanted to have the incident signalled). Superintendent told her not to. No bad publicity for the school!!!
Oh my goodness!! Very much sounds like her behaviour is being initiated at home, so with parents like that with that attitude, QB is always, ALWAYS going to think she is above everybody else & will want to remain in control. I think your daughter is handling this in the best way she can given the schools lack of support. And if it were me & I'd been given the closed door to it being dealt with, then I would most certainly be going to the media & dumping that bad publicity that the school fears, right in their laps!
 

kipari

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@marymm , I called another two counselors /psychologists today. I hope we can start seeing someone soon. Thanks

@missy, thank you for your sweet and encouraging words. I'm actually trying this multi level approach.
You are very wise.


@luv2sparkle Our school is not private, unfortunately. We have been the top 3 , 5 or 10 schools nationwide for decades now. We pay more than the average parent for extracurricular activities and exchange programs, are expected to donate hefty sums for an excellent library and a brand new school building. But we're not paying tuition as such. So way less leverage than just straightforward monthly payments.

Since we have around 350 applications for roughly 25 places, the school thinks that they don't have to do anything. They are basically excellent already :rolleyes:.
Plus many other Parents don't stand up for their children for fear of being kicked out. Which, in case you are wondering: no they can't do just like that. Makes me angry too. What an example they are giving their kids.
 
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kipari

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Can you list the mean girl’s actions? Your post characterizes them as manipulative but if you shared actual facts, perhaps we could advise you better. Perhaps that is what the school needs—something concrete so that they can establish rules for these behaviors.
ETA: only read your first post
I think you already read my above post.
Some more examples:

She won't let girls sit on the bus (not mine I taxi my kids - we carpool).
She pretended to be a girl's friend when they just started school together (AGE 6!!). Said girl started having nightmares, stopped sleeping. The mom, who's very very involved in their kid's lives took a while to understand that QB had been telling her daughter horror stories. Threatening her not to say anything to her parents. Because she was so nice when parents were around, it took a while before she found out about the whole thing. Mom went to teachers, had meetings with the parents etc and finished obtaining a "restraining order' .

Which QB learned a lot from. She knows she can't touch that girl any more, but she tries everything to isolate her . Never attacks openly anymore. Learned to play curve balls.

If she wants to punish a girl, she has her number 3,4,5 girls badmouth her (stinks/ is ugly/ fat/stupid).
 

kipari

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If the school is not private, it should be subject to your state's anti-bullying laws, yes? Perhaps a carefully drafted letter citing said law(s) and including a chronology of this year's bullying incidents may inspire the school to act?
https://www.stopbullying.gov/resources/laws
We're located in France, but you're right, will look into the equivalent.

Our President recently gave a speech on the topic. Which we invoked at said parent teacher night, but to no avail....
 

arkieb1

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Well I would have phoned or texted Queen Bee's Mum and said yes, I think your daughter's cheating and stealing my daughter's property IS a serious matter, clearly because you don't it explains why you daughter, cheats, lies and bullies other children, perhaps you should think about getting her counselling because to be blunt your child is a monster and quite frankly the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree.

But that's me I'm to old to tiptoe around people I call a spade a spade.
 

Bron357

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My heart broke when you said your daughter just wants one true and good friend.
It’s often very hard to find such a friend.
encourage your daughter to self sufficient in terms of enjoying life. It’s important to have some solitary pursuits because in life there will be times when she has only her own company. activities like knitting, crochet or sewing can be relaxing and productive.
your daughter may need to have 2 or 3 friends who collectively can add up to 100%.
Tell your daughter that the mean girl must be very determined to be her enemy because deep down she’d like her to be her friend.
i imagine your daughter has qualities that mean girl admires and would like to have.
i Would just advise your daughter to be herself. You can’t If mean girl Can’t be avoided and says or does nasty things, your daughter should say it as it is “that’s not a nice thing to say (or do) to someone! You are hurting my feelings so I’m not going to listen (or be near you).
As a Mum of a very sensitive and socially awkward daughter, I feel for you. My daughter found refugee in music and soccer. She made new friends. She is 18 now, still hasn’t got one true and loyal friend but she has plenty of activities and friends to get her by.
 

MollyMalone

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There's no Code of Student Conduct-Academic Discipline in place? Accessing classmates' online accounts to steal their answers, and replacing those with wrong ones, is something I'd like to think would lead to expulsion, especially from an elite public school. Even from a self-serving administrator's perspective, what would be the down side; it's verifiable (or was, too late now I guess); there are plenty of candidates eager to take that kid's place; and her departure wouldn't roil the school, it would be welcomed by teachers and students. What Queen Bee (you are awfully kind to call her that) did was not just plagiarism to make her work seem better than reality; she took the additional step of sabotaging her classmates' work in the hope they would fail. And maaaybe expulsion would be the wake-up call for her parents.

Thanks @Niffler75 * * * My kids get along VERY well with my own friends' kids. But they are all over the globe,so not day to day friendships. We are actively inviting nice girls from all activities (dancing, swimming, horse riding for my daughter).
Relationships kindled via extracurricular activities -- and the "distraction" of sports, music and such -- definitely helped my niece and some of her classmates deal with (or care less about) the mean girl in their grade from age 7-13. I hope that's true for your daughter too!
 

sonnyjane

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Thanks @Alex T !I wish we had this kind of leverage on our school (meaning the parents of the neutral kids plus the parents of the " deputy" and some boys' parents too).

My daughter is already trying to be super neutral. But she WON'T LEAVE HER ALONE.
Example: They were both injured so no PE. They were allowed to do homework in another teacher's class. QB wants to copy daughter's homework. Daughter sais "no".
Daughter gets home and her book with said homework is missing. She panics. I tell her that the other girl must have "accidentally" taken the book. I call, txt, WhatsApp the mom. No response. I email. Daughter's distraught. It was an assignment over several days. Next morning boom eMails back: yes, sorry xyz accidentally took the book.

Plus adds condescendingly: well those things seem "very important to you", I saw you called, texted and WhatsApped, too....

Well, yes.bit actually is.

Had this been the only incident, one might think: coincidence. But it's one of so many.

She also bullied her gang members into giving her the access codes for their online accounts for a school competition.Stole their correct answers, then put wrong answers in.

She was nine .

Teacher REALLY tried to do something (talked about it in class and excluded her from the competition, but wanted to have the incident signalled). Superintendent told her not to. No bad publicity for the school!!!
I have to say, instead of going after the school to stop a bully, I'd go after the school to stop someone cheating. I went to a private school and they had a pretty strict "honor code". If you went at it from the angle that she approached your daughter wanting to cheat, your daughter said no, and therefore the girl stole her notebook, you might get farther than you would by just saying QB is being mean to your daughter.
 

nala

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I have to say, instead of going after the school to stop a bully, I'd go after the school to stop someone cheating. I went to a private school and they had a pretty strict "honor code". If you went at it from the angle that she approached your daughter wanting to cheat, your daughter said no, and therefore the girl stole her notebook, you might get farther than you would by just saying QB is being mean to your daughter.
This. Concrete evidence.
 

kipari

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I have to say, instead of going after the school to stop a bully, I'd go after the school to stop someone cheating. I went to a private school and they had a pretty strict "honor code". If you went at it from the angle that she approached your daughter wanting to cheat, your daughter said no, and therefore the girl stole her notebook, you might get farther than you would by just saying QB is being mean to your daughter.
Daughter and mom maintained the story it was accidental. Wanting to copy her homework had ZERO consequence. I was very disappointed.


@MollyMalone The only teacher who really tried to get this incident (which shows, imho, criminal energy...) on record got into trouble. She was actually questioned by the supervisor of the school district. Luckily without any consequences for her career, because THEY found she reacted correctly. She doesn't know 100% who filed the complaint, but they told her wasn't from any parents.
Leaves only our own school. Which sucks so much!!!!

Btw QB pulled the same stunt re. that contest last year. Instead of bullying the others she stole the passwords, though (many kids had noted them in their agendas). They never knew 100% who it was. Teacher changed all codes, talked to class and told children not to write down codes anymore. Teacher suspected it was QB, but had no proof.
This time the "gang" wouldn't have talked either, but deputy's parents saw all the wrong answers, questioned their girl and found out. They had a very serious talk with her parents as well. Didn't seem to bother them as much as it should have, though.


QBs father is the CEO of a big company and not a very cheerful chap. I imagine part of the school's behaviour is rooted in this. Doesn't make it better, though.


@Bron357 we talk about friendships a lot and I'm trying to gently tell her, that a very romanticised view of "best friend" might be an unrealistic ideal, and that it's OK to have multiple friends with whom you share activities etc. Her biggest problem is that she feels that she cannot open up to anyone in her class, because they aren't reliable. If QB wants, she'll always find means to know everyone's "secret". Last time it was just a game my DD played with a friend. She cornered the other girl and had her explain the game they'd been enjoying. Just to make fun of them for playing a "childish" game afterwards. It's small stuff like that. But every darn day.
DD loves drawing and crafting and since she's got 5siblings they play a lot together. It's not as lonely as it could be for her,since we're a closely knit family.
(((Hugs))) to you and your daughter.she sounds like an amazing girl and you are a great mom!!!(and blingy to boot!!!)

Everyone's sentiment that we need to be even more proactive re. counseling is good to hear. In France counseling is looked down upon sometimes. I got a lot of remarks in the vein that I'm stigmatizing my child when in reality the other kid is the problem. I KNOW it's BS, because she'll learn coping strategies for her life.
 

arkieb1

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Queen Bees Dad is probably paying or making donations to the school or is someone important it enough to allow his daughter to get away with these things - it happens in Australian private schools (I've worked in the public and private systems). I used to teach a boy from the ages of 12 to when he was 15 and he was an absolute [email protected]#* of a kid, used to cheat, lie, steal, bully other kids etc.

The heads of department and the school Principal overlooked many of his behaviours because his father was the head of the department of education for the region I worked in ie the guy handing out the salary based promotions...... his mother was a Principal at an all girls private school. Both parents worked all the time and allowed their son to do whatever he wanted both at home and at school....
 

rainydaze

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@kipari what an awful, awful situation. It makes my blood boil that the parents are of the ilk that think they are above others, have fostered this in their child, and have likely established an environment that caters to them within the school.

I'm also really sorry that therapy is looked down upon where you are. That's a shame.

Bringing it to the media as others have suggested might be one idea. However, with the attitude of the parents, I wonder if that would escalate things. The dad sounds like he could be a win-at-all-costs others-be-damned type.

My other thought is why not fight fire with fire. Normally this would not feel good to me, however it seems your hands (and the other families' hands) have been tied pretty tight by this child, her parents, and the school. Why not make it a regular thing for all of the girls except for her to get together, hang out, even have those anti-bullying meetings privately with this group so that her deputies and underlings get an eye-opening and together they all get the tools to render her invalid. Maybe having everyone on board as friends and learning not to tolerate her behavior will shift the tide so that she's the one be left out instead of running the show. Ideally it would force her to take stock and maybe by finally having negative reinforcement for her behavior (i.e. losing her her power and followers) she would be motivated to change her ways. I think that's highly unlikely sadly, however now all of the girls in the class would have a united front and eventually her antics would be diminished and properly ignored and thwarted.

ETA: Chances are the other girls are capable of feeling badly about their behaviors, recognizing how going along with her hurts and would be receptive to learning the tools to recognize her tactics and resist them. Sounds like the other parents would be on board too. Forming your own gang, a positive one, and fostering unity and possibly friendship among the rest of the class minus this QB, might be a relief to her underlings too.
 
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kipari

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Ughh, @arkieb1 that's a truly awful example!!! Sorry you had to deal with that boy. So frustrating.


Yep, @rainydaze we don't want to start a war. For us it's about the well being of our children, for him it's about winning. So we all know an escalation is not in our children's best interest.

I have proposed several activities for the class for team building (tree climbing, outdoor adventure park etc).
Since the school isn't doing anything, we organise it privately now. We'll keep it open for everyone , though.
I do think those kids don't see each other often enough outside school. Since it's not a regular neighborhood school, were very scattered and in all directions, which makes it difficult for parents. Add in all extracurricular activities and you can hardly plan a normal afternoon to hang out together.

We have the deputy over every friday night. Tonight another girl is sleeping over. Fingers crossed.

Next is a private anti bullying workshop. Open to all, will be held in our home. Since the school said it's too much work for them and will take away too much time .Trying as best as we can. Better than doing nothing.
 

OoohShiny

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Ughh, @arkieb1 that's a truly awful example!!! Sorry you had to deal with that boy. So frustrating.


Yep, @rainydaze we don't want to start a war. For us it's about the well being of our children, for him it's about winning. So we all know an escalation is not in our children's best interest.

I have proposed several activities for the class for team building (tree climbing, outdoor adventure park etc).
Since the school isn't doing anything, we organise it privately now. We'll keep it open for everyone , though.
I do think those kids don't see each other often enough outside school. Since it's not a regular neighborhood school, were very scattered and in all directions, which makes it difficult for parents. Add in all extracurricular activities and you can hardly plan a normal afternoon to hang out together.

We have the deputy over every friday night. Tonight another girl is sleeping over. Fingers crossed.

Next is a private anti bullying workshop. Open to all, will be held in our home. Since the school said it's too much work for them and will take away too much time .Trying as best as we can. Better than doing nothing.
Kudos for taking the initiative and trying to deal with things positively, rather than stooping to the level of those who live their lives negatively.

I guess we can only hope that Karma will sort these people out in time - at some point said girl will realise she doesn't have any real friends when she needs them, whereas hopefully your daughter and her friends will have each other (and new friends) as they grow older.

I live in hope that people will be self-critical and see the error of their ways but sadly many people seem to spend zero time on self-reflection and instead blindly rush forward in life with no thought of the consequences of their actions and behaviours on others and themselves.

(Perhaps DD needs to openly 'call her out' in class, pointing out to everyone else what the manipulative girl is doing so they hopefully think for themselves?)


Sometimes I wonder if Karma needs a hand with these people, though - you know, like when an 'accident' helps them realise the true priorities in life... :think:
 

kipari

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I live in hope that people will be self-critical and see the error of their ways but sadly many people seem to spend zero time on self-reflection and instead blindly rush forward in life with no thought of the consequences of their actions and behaviours on others and themselves.
This X 10000000, @OoohShiny ...

I'm flabbergasted every time when people who have suffered make others, often their kids, suffer from the exact same thing instead of breaking that vicious cycle. I do not get it !!
 
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Bron357

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Ughh, @arkieb1 that's a truly awful example!!! Sorry you had to deal with that boy. So frustrating.


Yep, @rainydaze we don't want to start a war. For us it's about the well being of our children, for him it's about winning. So we all know an escalation is not in our children's best interest.

I have proposed several activities for the class for team building (tree climbing, outdoor adventure park etc).
Since the school isn't doing anything, we organise it privately now. We'll keep it open for everyone , though.
I do think those kids don't see each other often enough outside school. Since it's not a regular neighborhood school, were very scattered and in all directions, which makes it difficult for parents. Add in all extracurricular activities and you can hardly plan a normal afternoon to hang out together.

We have the deputy over every friday night. Tonight another girl is sleeping over. Fingers crossed.

Next is a private anti bullying workshop. Open to all, will be held in our home. Since the school said it's too much work for them and will take away too much time .Trying as best as we can. Better than doing nothing.
You are the best mother. And even if you can’t change Miss Nasty you are doing everything constructive within your power to amend the situation.
just impress upon your daughter that Miss Nasty is actually a sad girl and it’s probable that she doesn’t have a lovely family like she has.
heres Hoping that the situation can be resolved.
 

lyra

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I agree with the counselling suggestion, as a therapist is a neutral person who can guide your daughter towards finding her own coping methods from a professional perspective.

Have you thought about martial arts classes? Some of these have an aspect to them in which self-reliance and self-confidence are also taught. It can be empowering for a kid to feel that they are mastering something like that. Obviously not for fighting purposes, but more for trusting one's body and mind.
 

MollyMalone

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I have proposed several activities for the class for team building (tree climbing, outdoor adventure park etc).
Since the school isn't doing anything, we organise it privately now. We'll keep it open for everyone , though.
I do think those kids don't see each other often enough outside school. Since it's not a regular neighborhood school, were very scattered and in all directions, which makes it difficult for parents. Add in all extracurricular activities and you can hardly plan a normal afternoon to hang out together.

We have the deputy over every friday night. Tonight another girl is sleeping over. Fingers crossed.

Next is a private anti bullying workshop. Open to all, will be held in our home. Since the school said it's too much work for them and will take away too much time .Trying as best as we can. Better than doing nothing.
It burns me that the school is so indifferent.

But hearty huzzahs to you for seeking a counselor/"coach" for your daughter & implementing other plans that are supportive of your own child and include her schoolmates too. Those steps are not only good in and of themselves -- you're also modeling for the kids how one can respond positively to a bad situation.
 

kipari

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Aww, thanks @MollyMalone !!!

Unfortunately she didn't really enjoy Judo, Karate (only did the trial lessons) or Aiki-do(went for one year).

Maybe we should retry, because I think martial arts and self defense classes are always a good thing.
 

Jimmianne

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There have been times when I was very cordial during incidences that involved my son and the administration walked all over me. Because of this...my son’s needs were not met. Looking back on these incidences, I regret being so agreeable.

I wish I had been the squeaky wheel. The only people who suffered were my son and my family.

There have been other times when I didn’t take any crap and people did what they were paid to do. In those instances, my son’s needs were met and I have no regrets whatsoever.

I’m saying this so that you know that maybe these people need a fire lit under their butts. You have been doing a lot for your daughter but these people are unbelievable.
Yes, I am still kicking myself for not aggressively standing up for my child. I was agressive, but caved in on several important occasions thanks to the principal who assured me all was well.

I was bullied in school...I was very small and quiet to begin with on top of being a year ahead of my grade level. In my neighborhood I lived between the head cheerleader and the captain of the football team, so they tortured me at home as well.
My parents eventully moved me to a small private school where I could shine.

Now I realize that the parents of the bullies probably had self esteem issues of their own, as much of the subject of the bullying was putting down my successful and generous parents.
Believe it or not, one of the biggest bullies is still snide to some of my fellow students victims on social media ...whom she has not seen in over 60 years!
:lol:


Ps. I wanted to say how sorry I am that you are going though this and wishing you all the best.
 

kipari

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Yes, I am still kicking myself for not aggressively standing up for my child. I was agressive, but caved in on several important occasions thanks to the principal who assured me all was well.

I was bullied in school...I was very small and quiet to begin with on top of being a year ahead of my grade level. In my neighborhood I lived between the head cheerleader and the captain of the football team, so they tortured me at home as well.
My parents eventully moved me to a small private school where I could shine.

Now I realize that the parents of the bullies probably had self esteem issues of their own, as much of the subject of the bullying was putting down my successful and generous parents.
Believe it or not, one of the biggest bullies is still snide to some of my fellow students victims on social media ...whom she has not seen in over 60 years!
:lol:


Ps. I wanted to say how sorry I am that you are going though this and wishing you all the best.
@House Cat and @Jimmianne , I see what you are saying. I'm trying to walk a fine line, because I fear that too much pressure will start a war with the other dad which might result in a worse situation for the children.
And how awful your bullies were in your neighborhood. I'm happy your parents were wonderful people AND parents, who found the right school for you!!
 

MollyMalone

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* * * Teacher REALLY tried to do something (talked about it in class and excluded her from the competition, but wanted to have the incident signalled). Superintendent told her not to. No bad publicity for the school!!! * * *
@MollyMalone The only teacher who really tried to get this incident (which shows, imho, criminal energy...) on record got into trouble. She was actually questioned by the supervisor of the school district. Luckily without any consequences for her career, because THEY found she reacted correctly. She doesn't know 100% who filed the complaint, but they told her wasn't from any parents.
Leaves only our own school. Which sucks so much!!!!
Her sabotaging of her classmates' answers seems downright creepy to me. Fingers crossed that the parents of this troubled (and troubling!) girl are, unbeknownst to outsiders, seeking skilled guidance.

I keep thinking about the administration's responses :angryfire: -- and imagining how they would handle a report that one of their students was being sexually molested by a school staff member. :blackeye: (Of course, I am fervently hoping that never happens.)
@House Cat and @Jimmianne , I see what you are saying. I'm trying to walk a fine line, because I fear that too much pressure will start a war with the other dad which might result in a worse situation for the children.
And how awful your bullies were in your neighborhood. I'm happy your parents were wonderful people AND parents, who found the right school for you!!
An unfortunate number of us parents were/are being called upon to figure out the fine line between being an advocate for your child vs. taking action that will/is likely to provoke heightened retaliation. (My then 10-year-old son and the boys in his class in general were often subjected to bullying and other emotionally sadistic conduct by their classroom teacher; my son wanted to stay with his classmates so adamantly declined the principal's offer of a transfer to another classroom).
It IS tough, especially since none of us has ESP, can't predict with certainty as to how the antagonist(s) will react.

PSers are wishing you and your entire family the very best possible -- keep us posted, please.
 

canuk-gal

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HI:

Healing and strength vibes across the miles, @kipari . I don't need to be a parent to suggest this is truly a heartbreaking thread.

kind regards-- Sharon
 

kipari

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My then 10-year-old son and the boys in his class in general were often subjected to bullying and other emotionally sadistic conduct by their classroom teacher; my son wanted to stay with his classmates so adamantly declined the principal's offer of a transfer to another classroom
@MollyMalone , this is the height of abominable. I'm sorry your son had to go through this. So sad. And this is exactly this torn feeling....




HI:

Healing and strength vibes across the miles, @kipari . I don't need to be a parent to suggest this is truly a heartbreaking thread.

kind regards-- Sharon
Thank you, Sharon!!
 
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