McCain Sponsors Amendment to Prevent Abuse

[AGBF]

Senator John McCain, Republican and former POW, did a great thing today. He got the Republican-controlled US Senate to pass (as an amendment to a bill) legislation to prevent torture and humiliation of anyone in US custody. That does not make this provision law, but (in my opinion) it reflects terribly well upon McCain. The vote was 90 to 9 in favor of the amendment.

article

Deborah

 

[AGBF]

The White House has threatened to veto the bill funding the war in Iraq if it passes the House with this amendment, but Senator McCain got it though by such a huge majority that the Senate, at least, would override a veto.

"Mr. McCain, who was a prisoner of war in the Vietnam War, added in closing Wednesday night: 'Many of my comrades were subjected to very cruel, very inhumane and degrading treatment, a few of them even unto death. But every one of us - every single one of us - knew and took great strength from the belief that we were different from our enemies.'

Senator Lamar Alexander, a Tennessee Republican, questioned why the White House would oppose a measure that codifies military procedures and policies, and reaffirms a ban against torturing detainees. 'It is time for Congress, which represents the people, to clarify and set the rules for detention and interrogation of our enemies,' he said."


see article


Deborah

 

[movie zombie]

"The senators ignored Mr. Cheney''s threats, and the amendment, sponsored by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), passed this month by a vote of 90 to 9. So now Mr. Cheney is trying to persuade members of a House-Senate conference committee to adopt language that would not just nullify the McCain amendment but would formally adopt cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment as a legal instrument of U.S. policy. The Senate''s earlier vote suggests that it will not allow such a betrayal of American values. As for Mr. Cheney: He will be remembered as the vice president who campaigned for torture."

http://edit.store.yahoo.com/lib/realityzone/UFNvpfortorture.mht



peace, movie zombie

 

[AGBF]

Date: 10/28/2005 7:52:57 PM
Author: movie zombie
As for Mr. Cheney: He will be remembered as the vice president who campaigned for torture.

Yes. I am afraid that this administration's belief in torture (along with its belief that anyone it dislikes can have his right to due process thrown out) bothers me far more than their having exposed a CIA agent (Valerie Plame aka Valerie Wilson).

I think it is very low of the Bush administration to go after its enemies (which was anyone telling the truth about the supposed weapons of mass destruction like Ambassador Wilson) by exposing their CIA agent wives to danger, but, when all is said and done, I dislike torture even more.

Isn't this a great administration? I mean, as long as it doesn't become known that George Bush drove his girlfriend for that illegal abortion in Texas, he is OK with us. The only crime people cannot forgive is a sexual one.

Deborah

 

[AGBF]

We keep asking how the Germans could have been unaware of the genocide committed by their leaders during World War II. Bob Herbert has persuaded me with this Op-ed piece that we may one day be asked the same question about how we could have allowed torture to continue under our noses.

Remember: John McCain is a Republican Senator and a former POW who was tortured in North Vietnam, but he is trying to end the torture of prisoners. (And even his bill wouldn't cover the CIA and its methods of interrogation!!!)

A few excerpts follow.

"Ultimately the whole truth will come out and historians will have their say, and Americans will look in the mirror and be ashamed.

Abraham Lincoln spoke of the 'better angels' of our nature. George W. Bush will have none of that. He's set his sights much, much lower.

The latest story from the Dante-esque depths of this administration was front-page news in The Washington Post yesterday. The reporter, Dana Priest, gave us the best glimpse yet of the extent of the secret network of prisons in which the C.I.A. has been hiding and interrogating terror suspects.

...

The individuals held in these prisons have been deprived of all rights. They don't even have the basic minimum safeguards of prisoners of war. If they are being tortured or otherwise abused, there is no way for the outside world to know about it. If some mistake has been made and they are, in fact, innocent of wrongdoing - too bad.

...

The C.I.A.'s original plan was to hide and interrogate maybe two or three dozen top leaders of Al Qaeda who were directly involved in the Sept. 11 attacks or were believed to pose an imminent threat.

...

A number of current and former officials told The Washington Post that 'the original standard for consigning suspects to the invisible universe was lowered or ignored.'

...

Terrible instances of torture and other forms of abuse of detainees have come to light. The Pentagon has listed the deaths of at least 27 prisoners in American custody as confirmed or suspected criminal homicides.

None of this has given the administration pause. It continues to go out of its way to block a legislative effort by Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican, to ban the 'cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment' of any prisoner in U.S. custody.*

...

Worse stories are still to come - stories of murder, torture and abuse. We'll watch them unfold the way people watch the aftermath of terrible accidents. And then we'll ask, 'How could this have happened?'"


*Although Mr. Herbert does not mention it, these regulations proposed by Senator McCain would NOT bind the CIA!!!

Bob Herbert Piece

Deb

 

[AGBF]

The Senate again voted for this bill.

"WASHINGTON, Nov. 4 - The Senate restated its support on Friday for banning the abusive treatment of prisoners in American custody, and the measure's Republican sponsor chided the House Republican leadership for delaying a vote on it.

The Senate approved the same provision last month, 90 to 9. On Friday, senators endorsed it again, this time by a unanimous voice vote, and attached it to a revised military spending bill. The White House has threatened to veto the bill if it includes the measure, saying the provision would restrict the president's ability to protect the country.

The measure, written by Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, would ban the use of "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" against anyone in the custody of the United States government. It would also require all American troops to use only those questioning techniques authorized in a new Army field manual.

Mr. McCain took to the Senate floor on Friday to criticize opponents of his provision, including the House Republican leadership, which is delaying work on the spending bill in what Democrats say is an effort to spare Vice President Dick Cheney an embarrassing setback.

Mr. Cheney lobbied Mr. McCain unsuccessfully to exempt the Central Intelligence Agency from the provisions.



McCain's Bill to Outlaw Torture

Deborah

 

[portoar]

McCain is one (the only one) Republican I would vote for in a heartbeat. He might possibly be the only honest politician we have. It''s such a shame he didn''t agree to run with Kerry . . . if he had, I''m sure it would have been a landslide election.

 

[elepri]

Date: 11/11/2005 11:35:06 AM
Author: portoar
McCain is one (the only one) Republican I would vote for in a heartbeat. He might possibly be the only honest politician we have. It's such a shame he didn't agree to run with Kerry . . . if he had, I'm sure it would have been a landslide election.

Is there a nodding smiley face? Because i agree completely with what you said.

 

[movie zombie]

i will never vote for mr mccain. i actually thought he was somewhat ok until the recent election here in california in which he was recruited and utilized by arnie to try and pass legislation that obviously we didn''t want. mr mccain has his own backyard to campaign in and should stick to it.

peace, movie zombie

 

[AGBF]

Date: 11/12/2005 2:57:09 AM
Author: movie zombie
i will never vote for mr mccain. i actually thought he was somewhat ok until the recent election here in california in which he was recruited and utilized by arnie to try and pass legislation that obviously we didn''t want. mr mccain has his own backyard to campaign in and should stick to it.

Senator McCain has disappointed me several times by supporting President Bush when it was clear he did not agree with him, but it was politically expedient to do so. On the other hand, I am glad he is speaking out on the national stage (i.e. the Senate floor) against prisoner abuse (i.e. torture). If he remained focused on Arizona alone, he would not be sponsoring a bill against torture.

Deb

 

[portoar]

Date: 11/12/2005 2:57:09 AM
Author: movie zombie
i will never vote for mr mccain. i actually thought he was somewhat ok until the recent election here in california in which he was recruited and utilized by arnie to try and pass legislation that obviously we didn''t want. mr mccain has his own backyard to campaign in and should stick to it.

peace, movie zombie

Movie Zombie, you''re a Californian too? Doesn''t it just gall you that we have the Governator? So glad all of his ridiculous initiatives got shot down and I hope he goes down in the next election too. McCain does stand by his Republican party, but he also calls them on the carpet when their behavior becomes too aggregious (which is unfortunately quite often).

 

[movie zombie]

i applaud his efforts on a national level to make sure this nation is not participating in torture. i do NOT applaud his efforts to come into the state of california and campaign for propositions that effect californians only. if he wants to be involved in state politics, i suggest he do it in his own state. i do i agree that his ability to overlook his own stated beliefs to support the bush agenda is very disappointing.

peace, movie zombie

 

[AGBF]

OK...so Senator McCain is trying to end the US policy of torturing prisoners. But, meanwhile, back at the ranch...Mr. Bush hasn't heard anything about any US torture! He probably didn't see the photos of Abu Ghraib, either.

"We Do Not Torture" and Other Funny Stories
by Frank Rich.

 

[movie zombie]

it is mind boggling to have a president say we don''t torture when the facts speak for themselves....and his administration is lobbying to make it legal. sick and sickening. i do hope mccain prevails.

peace, movie zombie

 

[AGBF]

In the Senate, a Chorus of Three Defies the Line

"On a July evening in the Capitol, Vice President Dick Cheney summoned three Republican senators to his ornate office just off the Senate chamber. The Republicans - John W. Warner of Virginia, John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina - were making trouble for the Bush administration, and Mr. Cheney let them know it.

The three were pushing for regulations on the treatment of American military prisoners, including a contentious ban on 'cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.' The vice president wanted the provision pulled from a huge military spending bill. The senators would not budge.

'We agreed to disagree,' Mr. Graham said in an interview last week.

That private session was an early hint of a Republican feud that spilled into the open last week, as Senate Republicans openly challenged President Bush on American military policy in Iraq and the war on terrorism. In the center of the fray, pushing Congress to reassert itself, were those same three Republicans.

Though their views on the war differ, they have much in common: each is a member of the influential Senate Armed Services Committee, each has a strong maverick streak and each has personal ties to the military - and to one another, mostly through Mr. McCain."


article

 

[AGBF]

Here's an update on what is going on with Senator McCain's bill:

"The White House has all but abandoned its effort to persuade Senator John McCain to exempt Central Intelligence Agency employees from legislation barring inhumane or degrading treatment of prisoners in American custody.

...​

Mr. McCain's provision, which would also require a uniform standard on how to interrogate detainees, stands a strong chance of becoming law, despite a White House threat to veto any legislation containing it. The measure has already passed the Senate, 90 to 9, and senior House Republican staff members say it would probably pass by a large margin in the House.

...​

Mr. McCain is balking at agreeing to any kind of exemption for intelligence officials, members of his staff say. Instead, he has offered to include some language, modeled after military standards, under which soldiers can provide a defense if a "reasonable" person could have concluded that he or she was following a lawful order about how to treat prisoners.

...​

In the House, Representative Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the Democratic whip, complained to reporters that Mr. Cheney 'apparently wants to continue the option of torture as a national policy, and therefore the defense bill hasn't moved.'"


article

Deb

 

[movie zombie]

i''ve heard that mccain is backing down on some issues but haven''t been paying as much attention as i should. i hate to see him compromise at all.

peace, movie zombie

 

[AGBF]

The U.S. House of Representatives, in a bipartisan (but nonbinding) vote, backed Senator McCain's bill to ban the torture of all prisoners. This vote was in defiance of the Bush administration, which has been lobbying against it.

The bill had already been passed (with a 90 to 9) majority in the U.S. Senate.

"The House vote was 308 to 122, with 107 Republicans lining up along with almost every Democrat behind Representative John P. Murtha, the Pennsylvania Democrat who sponsored Mr. McCain's language and who has become anathema to the administration on any legislative measure related to Iraq since his call last month to withdraw American troops from Iraq in six months.

'Torture does not help us win the hearts and minds of the people it's used against,' Mr. Murtha said on the House floor. 'Congress is obligated to speak out.'

Unlike the tumultuous three-hour debate that Mr. Murtha's Iraq-related measure provoked last month, this measure met with just 10 minutes of statements to a nearly empty House chamber.

Mr. Murtha, a former Marine colonel who is the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Defense Subcommittee, said Mr. McCain's legislation was essential to standardizing American interrogation methods and sending a clear signal to the world that the United States condemned the abusive treatment of detainees.

'If we allow torture in any form,' Mr. Murtha said, 'we abandon our honor.'"

article

Deborah

 

[AGBF]

Senator McCain prevailed. Thank God.

"The White House, after weeks of resistance, agreed today to Senator John McCain's call for a law specifically banning cruel or inhuman treatment of terror suspects anywhere in the world.

Mr. McCain met with President Bush at the White House this afternoon, and an announcement of a deal followed.

...​

It was the second time in less than 24 hours that Congressional concerns about torture - and the damage to America's image wrought by allegations of secret C.I.A. detentions and interrogations - had overwhelmed an administration intent on keeping an array of tools to wage a difficult, high-stakes battle against terrorism.

...​

Late Wednesday, in a rare bipartisan rebuke to the administration, the House of Representatives voted, 308 to 122, to endorse a measure by Mr. McCain to bar cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment of prisoners in American custody anywhere in the world.

The Arizona senator's political clout - he was a presidential candidate in 2000 - and his past as a former naval aviator who was tortured in Hanoi during the Vietnam War, have given his determined stance against torture particular resonance in Congress.

...​

Vice President Dick Cheney had made an unusual appeal to Republican senators to provide an exemption for the C.I.A. The White House even threatened to veto the sweeping military-spending bill to which the Senate version of Mr. McCain's amendment was attached. The House version omitted those provisions from its version of the $453 billion spending bill.

Mr. McCain's language proved difficult for lawmakers to oppose, particularly at a time when opinion polls show that torture and detainee issues have seriously eroded the United States image abroad...."


article


Deborah

 

[movie zombie]

mccain had the votes to back him....bush didn''t. seems the party was going to back mccain on this one! good work, mr. mccain!

part of the deal is the CIA now has the same protections as the military:

"Under the deal, CIA interrogators would be given the same legal rights as currently guaranteed to members of the military who are accused of breaking interrogation guidelines. Those rights say accused people can defend themselves by claiming they were obeying an order and did not know the actions were unlawful. The government also would provide counsel for accused interrogators."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051215/ap_on_go_pr_wh/congress_detainees

however, if i remember right, the justification of just following orders was not acceptable at Nuremberg.

peace, movie zombie