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Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "jedi"

Barrett

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
2,218
So....it's been a long time since I posted....and....I am sure you guys missed my "......." sentences, LOL(cough...cough...Kenny :D ;-) ;-) )
I hope everyone has been doing okay. LD, TL, Harriet, Arcadian, Minousbijoux, and anyone else I missed....you guys been keeping on top of things in the colored gem world?
I miss getting the scoop from the folks over here on PS. I have no idea what has become hot or fashionable these days. What new finds have occurred. What things have dried up....etc.
Do you guys ever see any of those good, sleepy, red and pink mahenge spinels? They still coming out?
Boy, if all of us here on CS PS, had invested in them puppies when we first took note of them when the market was fresh, years back, we would all be rich by now!!!!! LOL

I skimmed a couple threads, looked back some pages, and scanned for my favorite topics....and I was surprised at the number of Paraiba threads there are.
What is the deal with all the cuprians? Has Mauvco suddenly rose from the ashes like a phoenix and is producing more material?
Where are all these cuprians coming from? Mulungu Mine start hitting some good areas? Back in the ole "Heitorita" zone at Batalha?(color not good enough for that :lol: :lol: )
Old stock being sold?
Old stones being resold?
Uh-oh......maybe Robert James was right all along, and they are diffusing Cu into stones. :blackeye: :Up_to_something: :roll: :mrgreen: :lol: j/k

I figured that as long as I have been away from stones that Paraiba's would have dried up by now? Glad to see them still around.

The topic of this thread has to do with blue. Reason being, I recently acquired some stones that the ole pro's on here may recall. I sure coveted them back in the day, but was never able to get a hold of any.
Forgot about them until here recently.....

Those fantastic "Hauyne-blue" cobalt bearing spinel from Luc Yen. AKA...Jedi spinel.
A windex-like color, with very little, to no tone!
I scooped up a couple small rough stones to keep for myself, but I also plan on sending one for a spectra, and/or having a few looked at with the microprobe....to get a nice quantitative set of numbers and reference...like I used to with Paraiba material
Knowing how I love chromophores, thanks to cuprians and emeralds of course, I really took a liking to cobalt. This has really been since Vincent published his work on the "jedi windex" stones.
I actually bought my first cobalt bearing blue spinel gemstone a couple years prior to that..... from Sri Lanka if I remember correctly...... over on the old selling page at GO.com. It's one of those purchases you don't do without the lab report in hand...LOL.

Hopefully I will have those test taken care of in a month or two. Not much free time with work being so busy these days.

I wanted to compare different blue colors in gems and crystals from my past post, and previous pictures of mine, as well as others, that really jumped out at me. Thought it might be fun since I am discussing these spinels.....

First, here are a couple quick pictures I just took of some healthy looking, Luc Yen, cobalt bearing spinel rough crystals. The two single pieces weigh 2.14ct and 1.89ct, respectively.
The pic with the multiple stones in hand, shows the one on the bottom left displaying much more gray(grey) than the others. You can't really tell in the photo, but it's a classic octahedra shape. The best color pieces are the three in the middle. They all have prismatic, crystal faces on at least one or two sides.

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Barrett

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
2,218
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

They are sure a good blue color, right? How do they compare to say....hauyne?

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Barrett

Ideal_Rock
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2,218
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

You can see in the last photo how the background is a sickly yellow color...well...hauyne was the only stone, crystal, mineral, of any color, that would make my microscope camera's light sensor go crazy. The blue of hauyne was so intense, it threw off the sensor. This happened all the time. The Luc Yen spinel I just posted, also did give my scope some trouble with the color sensor.
 

Barrett

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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2,218
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

Now lets look at some classics...
top picture is Vincent Pardieu's webpage
http://www.fieldgemology.org/

Then we have the backside of Harriet's Luc Yen cobalt spinel gemstone.....that she got from Pala.


Lastly,
this may also be a Pala stone. I am pretty sure I got the picture from a thread here on Pricescope.

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Barrett

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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2,218
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

Maybe the "jedi" spinel, met his match with one of Tan's old photo's, of a clean, facetgrade tanzanite I bought from him so many years back?? Tan, did tend to "amp" his pictures up ever so slightly..LOL
8-) :lickout: :mrgreen:


Maybe the rich blue color of Vietnamese cobalt spinel, is more akin to sapphire? Surely, the best blue in the world is from sapphires, right? Here is a stone that was more than I bargained for. If I remember right, Rick Martin had a client looking for a blue sapphire ...that was about the price of a house, or a jumbo jet maybe, it was something stupidly expensive, regardless.
He asked around to fellow gem junkies, if I remember correctly, if they might know of where such a beast would be found. I messaged "the dude" and he sent this back. Damn, ya know!
I had the lab report picture someplace with all the stats...not sure where it's at though.

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Barrett

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
2,218
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

The blue of the cobalt spinels from Luc Yen, easily beats the "TL and Amethystguy(me) fan favorite".....
The nice blue of a good Zambian ammy. :mrgreen: :D

The blue of this sapphire crystal that I dug up from South Carolina, is not to shabby up against the Co2+. This came from a sapphire spot Bryan Major and I discovered, and then mined, some years back. In South Carolina too!


This blue topaz, which I think I faceted :wall: , doesn't hold a candle, that is for sure. :oops:

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Barrett

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
2,218
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

How about some benitoite? These small crystals, from an old specimen of mine, have great color...but...not close to the "hauyne blue" spinels.


This one is not to shabby tat tall :mrgreen:
Brazilian apatite that has been heated. Not bad.

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Barrett

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
2,218
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

How about some blue tourmalines? Some are pretty darn good in color when Iron is implemented properly as a chromophore. Some rough I had a long time ago.




How about TL's picture of that killer afghan tourmaline that looks better than 80% of all paraiba's...and it's colored by Iron. :mrgreen:


Afghan blue


This one I spent thousands on, was a nice eye popper, but the color just doesn't have that pop to it, ya know

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Barrett

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
2,218
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

Okay...now this is getting ridiculous.... :saint: :sun: :oops: :ugeek:
Gem silica...from Frank S.
Can't recall the mine..Inspiration Mine, maybe?




this fav of mine has decent blue for tanzanite. I actually bought this from Tan long before anyone on Pricescope knew about him, except for TL :naughty: It's a whopping 41 carats!!!

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Barrett

Ideal_Rock
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May 26, 2009
Messages
2,218
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

Okay...so the best candidates for blue color in the gem world are sapphire, hauyne, cobalt spinel from Vietnam, heated apatite(brazil or Mada), and of course the famed Cuprian Paraiba tourmalines, in my opinion.

Some nice ones for sure...




Paraiba(and watermelon) from Pala. Nice looking blue color...reminds me of something..... :???: :mrgreen:


A classic....

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minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
12,339
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

Hah, glad to see your back slumming it Barrett! A couple of things - there have been so many times recently with all the Paraiba threads that I have thought of you. Why? you posted photos that set the standard for that other worldly, neon glow of the real deal Paraiba tourmaline. I remember about fainting the first time I saw you post the uncut, rough crystal form of some really good stuff. Unreal. So, while many of the recent Paraibas here don't quiiiiiiiite reach the level of the nuclear Paraibas, it sure is awesome to see all that is being created with Paraiba melee - and proves the point that a little goes a long way.

Second thing: thanks for calling the blue cobalt spinels "jedis." Up until now, I had only ever heard Vincent speak of the red crystal ones from Namya in Burma (not Mogok, mind you!) as Jedis. I *thought* that was based on the shape as well as the breathtaking neon. But how cool to see neon blue ones referred to as Jedi as well! I can only imagine how amazing it would be to stumble across some neon like that (heck, I'm not picky - I'd take either red or blue!)

Anyway, nice of you to stop by! :wavey:
 

lilmosun

Brilliant_Rock
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Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

Blue, especially neon blue, addict here :wavey:

I remember seeing my first paraibas (the ring in my avatar) and my only luc yen cobalt spinel...catching my eye (and screaming my name) despite being surrounded by much bigger beauties.

Your pictures are the stuff dreams are made of. I wish I were here back in the day.

Best :love: thread ever :clap:
 

OTL

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Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
1,349
Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

minousbijoux|1458958905|4011189 said:
Hah, glad to see your back slumming it Barrett! A couple of things - there have been so many times recently with all the Paraiba threads that I have thought of you. Why? you posted photos that set the standard for that other worldly, neon glow of the real deal Paraiba tourmaline. I remember about fainting the first time I saw you post the uncut, rough crystal form of some really good stuff. Unreal. So, while many of the recent Paraibas here don't quiiiiiiiite reach the level of the nuclear Paraibas, it sure is awesome to see all that is being created with Paraiba melee - and proves the point that a little goes a long way.

Second thing: thanks for calling the blue cobalt spinels "jedis." Up until now, I had only ever heard Vincent speak of the red crystal ones from Namya in Burma (not Mogok, mind you!) as Jedis. I *thought* that was based on the shape as well as the breathtaking neon. But how cool to see neon blue ones referred to as Jedi as well! I can only imagine how amazing it would be to stumble across some neon like that (heck, I'm not picky - I'd take either red or blue!)

Anyway, nice of you to stop by! :wavey:
The neon pink/red jedis are from both Namya and Mansin, Burma.
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

OTL|1459012079|4011366 said:
The neon pink/red jedis are from both Namya and Mansin, Burma.
Yes, that is correct!
 

Desertrose

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Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

Here's a recent purchase from a local gem show...an Afghani tourmaline, not paraiba, but to me still seems to have that desirable sheen and color:



Not sure if it qualifies for your list?

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Barrett

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

Thanks Minous....I really miss the good ole days on here. (I forgot to mention Chrono earlier..fyi)
When I was a head first charging, know it all, who got reprimanded, blocked, and kicked off PS by...was it "Ali" or something? Then "Ella" came along and became more lenient towards me
I wised up, learning to shut my mouth and listen to the tangible, valid input, that many PS members had....LOL

Funny thing about calling the Luc Yen blues, "Jedi"......I had never heard of the reds being called "jedi" and had only read the article about these blue spinels being called "jedi". I tried googling the article Vincent wrote.....this has been a couple years ago....and it kept pulling up the reds being called "jedi". I had no idea the reds were called "jedi" originally, and was only basing my use of the word from the Luc Yen report. Crazy.
(messed up in previous post when I was referring to "tone" in the Luc Yen material. Meant to say "little to no gray")

Desert Rose.......that sucker def. makes the hastily thrown together list. The color is as good, or better, than easily half the cuprian/paraibas that have ever been sold :errrr: :oops: Very nice, thanks for posting. :shock:
Your stone mimics the color caused by copper in some tourmalines, yet yours is colored by Fe2+(iron).
So....if it's as good a color as many "paraiba's" on the market today, then it shouldn't matter one bit, if the acting coloring chromophore is Copper or Iron, right? I bet if your stone was a cuprian, and had the same exact color, it would have cost quite a bit more, right?
Same color...same stone....only difference is the chromophore...one being Cu the other Fe.
You can't see, touch, or ..lol..smell these subatomic particles inside the stones, except through some type of advanced testing.
Should it even matter what is coloring the stone, if both chromophores can do the same job and produce the same color?
No..it doesn't matter!
what happens then is, folks start selling tourmalines that test out positive for copper, at a grossly inflated price. It has become a marketing gimmick that was originally based upon a stone that had clout...a stone that hit the highmark for color, tone, and saturation. The original Paraiba's were a level above stones that graded out "vivid" in sat./color.
How is that possible, since "vivid" is the higest grade one can achieve?
A classifying of "Vivid" was already a very rare thing to have in any gemstone, and now these little tourmalines from Brazil are setting the bar to a new level. Imagine those guys, who were lucky enough to be around back in the 90's, and had the pleasure of seeing the real, true paraiba tourmaline. It blew away the top color sapphires, tourmalines(Fe), tanzanites, etc., at that time. The term "neon" and "glow" were first coined to help others grasp what these stones did. The "internal battery" look...LOL.
Really think about it....it had to be something special to make the world take note.
Sadly....most have no idea what a "Paraiba" should look like. Why a lowly ole tourmaline now commands 5 or 6 figures, per stone, when you could snatch up a tanzanite or sapphire, of top color/tone/sat. for less or roughly the same price?
Sadly, the market, as well as the consumer, has had the wool pulled over their eyes.
You pay an exorbitant price for a stone that has some particles(copper), that you can't even see, and would never even know if they were present without some advanced testing.
It could be Iron, copper, or even dog doo-doo coloring my gemstone, and it wouldn't matter in the end. I am selecting whichever one has the best hue, tone, and saturation, regardless of acting coloring chromophore.
It's all about the color in the end.....the element that does it the best should win every time.
Why would anyone pay more for a stone.... just because it has copper in it? This is what we have in the market today, and for the past 10-15 years, with folks relying on a lab report tell them they need to pay more, or charge more now, because it has copper.

What happened to people judging the actual physical attributes of each individual gemstone to gauge it's value, rarity, and desirability? Now, with paraiba/cuprian tourmalines, we base it's merit and value on whether it has, or hasn't, any copper in it.
How stupid is that?
So say...The tourmaline with the better color might have just Iron in it, acting upon it's color...the poorer looking one has copper......guess what, the worse looking one, with copper as a chromophore, will cost more than the one with the better color, caused by Iron.
This is the world we live in today, sadly.

Don't buy a paraiba tourmaline because it has copper in it....use common sense and buy the best tourmaline, regardless of chromophore.
I had fallen under the spell of the "paraiba", like most, but was shown the light after teaming up with Bruce Fry.
This, and the fact I bought many a "paraiba" tourmaline, that didn't test positive for copper, but was sold to me as a genuine cuprian. One of the most expensive purchases I ever made was a little 6-7ct rough from Batalha mine, that was a dead ringer for the "classic paraiba from Brazil" color. Even Chris Smith, head honcho at AGL, was fooled by the look of this stone. He said..."we don't test rough stones(except some green diamond rough for radiation burns) at AGL, but I will make an exception in this case, because it sure does have the look of a true brazilian paraiba tourmaline.
Guess what, no copper!
This little rough crystal must have really looked the part, especially to have had Christopher taking the time to analyze it personally.

So you see, a gemstone needs to be loved, and valued, based upon it's real world physical attributes and not by some invisible, god-like copper particle being present.:rolleyes:

The only time this need not apply, is if you are a reclusive, introverted, gem junkie, that enjoys the nuts and bolts of the science of gem minerals, regardless of what they may or may not look like. I would be one of those for sure....LOL
I would pay a higher price for say...as a quick example....something like a Fluor-liddicoatite tourmaline, even if it looked like dog poo, just for the simple fact it's a different member of the tourmaline group. Indistinguishable from a regular elbaite tourmaline, except through advanced testing, it would only appeal to those who care about end members, or x and y sites, etc.
I need to get off now and get something to munch on...might check back later to continue the discussion.
 

sapphirecats

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Dec 24, 2008
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Re: Maybe the Best blue color in gems and crystals ..... "je

Wow that blue is amazing! I would love to have a piece of that rock
 

Barrett

Ideal_Rock
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May 26, 2009
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OI000004.jpg Found this little blue spinel crystal in a lot I had gotten from Vietnam a few years back. Its small....only .16cts..... but it sure does make up for it, with that strong blue hue it has, the lack of tone present, and that well above average saturation.
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Barrett

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This Co spinel I photographed a few days ago has some of the best blue I have ever seen in a gem, and/or rough stone. It's a tad under a 1/5 of a carat.
Here is a link to an unlisted youtube video I just did, showing a batch I gathered together that were essentially cut from the same cloth, so to speak. :bigsmile:8-):appl:.

I want to incorporate some of these into jewelry, but have yet to figure out the best means of doing so. I have almost had some cut into a finished stones, but couldn't decide on going with cabs or faceted stones. Due to the small sizes, I thought about having a couple facet put on and polished up...a crude form of gemstone, so to speak, and one that relies more on it's world class color to get by, than it's paltry sizes, wonky cut design(have you seen all Vlad's wonky spinels yet?), and on it's clarity.
Although I enjoy these rough stones, I believe they will light up like crazy if you can get some light to bounce around inside them.

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S

SparkliesLuver

Guest
:love: Barrett, I love your video! Of course I love your photos, but it's awesome seeing them move around in your hand. I'd definitely try to cut them, and I'd probably leave the facet or cab decision up to the lapidary and what they're comfortable with. I have five 2.3mm-ish melee (one has since been used in a design) that I don't regret having faceted at all! And if you need design help, when that time comes, I'd certainly be happy to lend a brain cell or hand. haha

And oh, don't even get me started on Vlad's cobalts. Talk about eye roll of the century. So awful and sad!
 
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