Managed to find a nice Sphene ring...BUT!

[Deathspi]

Hi there. I've been lurking around these forums for a while, but now I have a bit of a dilema and thought I'd seek advice from people who seem to know what their talking about! so...

There's a lady on eBay, (yes, I know, horrible eBay!) who sources jewellery pieces and who I've bought from before and feel that she is genuine. She recently listed a very nice sphene ring which I was eager to snap up. However, upon looking at her feedback one day, I saw where she had originally bought the ring...and now I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to be wasting my money on something a bit...dodgey! Anyway, this was the shop in the US she'd purchased from:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Irinkas-Gems?_rdc=1

I don't really know alot about the more expensive gemstones, but there are things there that just seem a bit too cheap to me. (-But then, their not 99p from China either...) They have good feedback, but I've seen that they've been selling those cheap star sapphires which makes me a bit weary. Also, regarding there COAs, does anyone know about where there from? or, should is it best to only trust certs from the GIA?

Sorry for all the questions, and probably sounding a bit naive, I'm just interested how other people differentiate the good from the not-so-good!

 

[Largosmom]

Hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there is a simulant that looks quite like sphene...or in other words, it's high RI, and strong doubling of the facets make it a fairly easy gemstone to spot once you know what you are looking at. It's not generally a "clean" stone at low prices.

I looked at the two rings marked sphene and what is a bit odd is the low price with gold what it is right now. The prices seem low even without any center stone...compared, to say, LOGR or one of the other semi-mount vendors, they just seem low to me. Not sure what to tell you other than be careful and check the vendor at www.toolhaus.org

Edited to add...ebay is posting prices in dollars, so it's possible that the exchange rate is a factor...but I'm not thinking that the dollar is doing all that well at the moment...so again I am talking myself into it seeming that the prices are too low for the settings.

Laura

 

[Deathspi]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there is a simulant that looks quite like sphene...or in other words, it's high RI, and strong doubling of the facets make it a fairly easy gemstone to spot once you know what you are looking at.

Hmm, that's what I was thinking too...

I wonder why the prices are so low... I'm tempted to risk buying the ring, it looks a clean enough stone from what I can tell but I know I'll be veeery disssapointed if I get burnt...again!

 

[Arcadian]

seeing sphene in pictures is a lot different from seeing it in person. the dispersion is really off the chain IRL! My avatar is one of my sphenes though it cannot truly capture what it looks like, its a decent facsimile

Just be sure you really love the body color, because unless you carry around a spotlight or the sun all the time, you'll see that side of it a lot.

Sphene is quite soft, so think twice if you're going to put it in a ring. Now that I've said that, there are a few of us who DO have sphene rings. they're just not every day pieces. My ring gets worn to dinner, thats it. I have another stone which is sitting deciding what I'm going to do (yet another ring especially since my mom decided she liked my pendant enough to keep it). IMO, if thats what you have your heart set on, you'd probably do better to get the stone, then the setting. However, if you go that route be sure that whomever sets it has plenty of experience setting stones that have a mohs of 5 or so.


-A

 

[Largosmom]

I have a sphene ring...small inexpensive oval in a nice setting. My theory is that if I mess up the sphene, I won't be heartbroken and the setting will work for a calibrated oval so I can reuse for either another sphene...or a different stone, I wear it about once every couple of weeks and enjoy it a lot for its sparkle. It is a little glitter bug.

Laura

 

[Lovinggems]

seeing sphene in pictures is a lot different from seeing it in person. the dispersion is really off the chain IRL! My avatar is one of my sphenes though it cannot truly capture what it looks like, its a decent facsimile

Just be sure you really love the body color, because unless you carry around a spotlight or the sun all the time, you'll see that side of it a lot.

Sphene is quite soft, so think twice if you're going to put it in a ring. Now that I've said that, there are a few of us who DO have sphene rings. they're just not every day pieces. My ring gets worn to dinner, thats it. I have another stone which is sitting deciding what I'm going to do (yet another ring especially since my mom decided she liked my pendant enough to keep it). IMO, if thats what you have your heart set on, you'd probably do better to get the stone, then the setting. However, if you go that route be sure that whomever sets it has plenty of experience setting stones that have a mohs of 5 or so.


-A

Deathspi hope you don't mind my threadjack but you might be interested too, it's a question on sphene.

Hi Arc

I know you bought a few sphenes from a certain ebay vendor starting with 'E', their sphene's colour looks really good in the photos, bright yellows and bright crispy greens, with flashes of reds and yellows in the stones. To me the photos looks a bit unnatural, does your sphenes look like their photos or are they different?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Arcadian]

seeing sphene in pictures is a lot different from seeing it in person. the dispersion is really off the chain IRL! My avatar is one of my sphenes though it cannot truly capture what it looks like, its a decent facsimile

Just be sure you really love the body color, because unless you carry around a spotlight or the sun all the time, you'll see that side of it a lot.

Sphene is quite soft, so think twice if you're going to put it in a ring. Now that I've said that, there are a few of us who DO have sphene rings. they're just not every day pieces. My ring gets worn to dinner, thats it. I have another stone which is sitting deciding what I'm going to do (yet another ring especially since my mom decided she liked my pendant enough to keep it). IMO, if thats what you have your heart set on, you'd probably do better to get the stone, then the setting. However, if you go that route be sure that whomever sets it has plenty of experience setting stones that have a mohs of 5 or so.


-A

Deathspi hope you don't mind my threadjack but you might be interested too, it's a question on sphene.

Hi Arc

I know you bought a few sphenes from a certain ebay vendor starting with 'E', their sphene's colour looks really good in the photos, bright yellows and bright crispy greens, with flashes of reds and yellows in the stones. To me the photos looks a bit unnatural, does your sphenes look like their photos or are they different?

Thanks for your help.

The sphenes I've kept from them are like their pictures. However, I want to caution you this; I have had to hunt like mad though the ones they post for sale, and have even sent a few back because they weren't the color I wanted or the stone had issues. The ones I've had the biggest issue on are the ones that look super green in the pictures. They're not that green all the time, which is the problem for me. I've sent back quite a few of those. So I tend to go for a greenish yellow body color instead.

They've always been very upfront and honest with me on any stone I've wanted to know about, and don't mind the questions. His english is quite good. No serious language barrier.

Do try to find the cleanest you can find. My first sphene was a 6mm round. I went bigger immediately . When I've sent stones back they've always been understanding about it and I give them the heads up on what is the issue with it. They're good about returns as long as you do it within their time frame. So it can be a bit of a gamble as is anything on ebay, but should you go for it, do study their pictures really well.

To my knowledge sphene isn't faked. Its so darn soft and that its probably not worth it.



-A

 

[Lovinggems]

seeing sphene in pictures is a lot different from seeing it in person. the dispersion is really off the chain IRL! My avatar is one of my sphenes though it cannot truly capture what it looks like, its a decent facsimile

Just be sure you really love the body color, because unless you carry around a spotlight or the sun all the time, you'll see that side of it a lot.

Sphene is quite soft, so think twice if you're going to put it in a ring. Now that I've said that, there are a few of us who DO have sphene rings. they're just not every day pieces. My ring gets worn to dinner, thats it. I have another stone which is sitting deciding what I'm going to do (yet another ring especially since my mom decided she liked my pendant enough to keep it). IMO, if thats what you have your heart set on, you'd probably do better to get the stone, then the setting. However, if you go that route be sure that whomever sets it has plenty of experience setting stones that have a mohs of 5 or so.


-A

Deathspi hope you don't mind my threadjack but you might be interested too, it's a question on sphene.

Hi Arc

I know you bought a few sphenes from a certain ebay vendor starting with 'E', their sphene's colour looks really good in the photos, bright yellows and bright crispy greens, with flashes of reds and yellows in the stones. To me the photos looks a bit unnatural, does your sphenes look like their photos or are they different?

Thanks for your help.

The sphenes I've kept from them are like their pictures. However, I want to caution you this; I have had to hunt like mad though the ones they post for sale, and have even sent a few back because they weren't the color I wanted or the stone had issues. The ones I've had the biggest issue on are the ones that look super green in the pictures. They're not that green all the time, which is the problem for me. I've sent back quite a few of those. So I tend to go for a greenish yellow body color instead.

They've always been very upfront and honest with me on any stone I've wanted to know about, and don't mind the questions. His english is quite good. No serious language barrier.

Do try to find the cleanest you can find. My first sphene was a 6mm round. I went bigger immediately . When I've sent stones back they've always been understanding about it and I give them the heads up on what is the issue with it. They're good about returns as long as you do it within their time frame. So it can be a bit of a gamble as is anything on ebay, but should you go for it, do study their pictures really well.

To my knowledge sphene isn't faked. Its so darn soft and that its probably not worth it.



-A

Thank you Arc for the how to buy information, it's certainly useful, especially the tip about clarity.

 

[Arcadian]

You're welcome LG. *sorry I put the wrong message in earlier...oops!*

-A

 

[Deathspi]

Well, nobody's told me to run a mile yet so that's encouraging!

As for having sphene in a ring. I'm aware that sphene is very soft and putting it in a ring isn't the best idea, but rings are my thing so I was planning on doing the same as Arcadian and just wear it occationally while being careful with it. Will be interesting if/when I get to see the stone IRL. If I end up getting the ring it will be a Christmas pressie so I'll have to wait a bit though!

By the way, I'm curious, who is this eBay vendor beginning with 'E'? I'm always looking for good sellers since the jewellers where I live arn't up to much.

 

[chrono]

There are sphene simulants out there like YAG but if you know what to look for, you should be able to easily pick them apart. Their sphenes do not look spectacular and in looking through their settings, it looks like many came from either Lanbo or LOGR or both. I've purchased one from ExportGems and had a good experience with them. When away from the sun or light source, it's just the plain body colour but once a wee bit of light hits it, it's fireworks time.

 

[Deathspi]

Thanks for letting me know about exportgems, there are so many people selling loose stones on eBay it's hard to know which ones are honest. It looks like they have some nice stones and there prices seem good too.

 

[T L]

Thanks for letting me know about exportgems, there are so many people selling loose stones on eBay it's hard to know which ones are honest. It looks like they have some nice stones and there prices seem good too.

I have a sphene from export gems too, and I would be iffy with other gems from them, but I think their sphenes can be trusted. I still haven't set this stone, it is only sitting on top of a mounting, but I posted it so you could see the double refraction well. My camera does a poor job at capturing dispersion, but this is a very dispersive stone.

 

[chrono]

Thanks for letting me know about exportgems, there are so many people selling loose stones on eBay it's hard to know which ones are honest. It looks like they have some nice stones and there prices seem good too.

I took a look at the other gems from Export Gems and wouldn’t touch those for any amount of money – something’s not right about the pricing for the quality shown.

 

[VapidLapid]

there is a simulant that is very sphenal, it is strontium titanate. RI2.41 super high dispersion , almost always has a pale yellow to brownish body color. hardness is 7 I think and not birefringent. Keep in mind that sphene cut straight down the C axis will not show facet doubling when viewed head on. Strontium titanate was synthesized in the late forties/early fifties and originally marketed as diamond simulant (near identical RI) under the name Fabulite. So you do have to watch for unscrupulous sellers faking sphene now that it is getting more popular and costly.

 

[Arcadian]

Thanks for letting me know about exportgems, there are so many people selling loose stones on eBay it's hard to know which ones are honest. It looks like they have some nice stones and there prices seem good too.

I have a sphene from export gems too, and I would be iffy with other gems from them, but I think their sphenes can be trusted. I still haven't set this stone, it is only sitting on top of a mounting, but I posted it so you could see the double refraction well. My camera does a poor job at capturing dispersion, but this is a very dispersive stone.

I will say their other stones from them I've always gotten a cert. Sometimes they look good, some don't look that great, they will take them back which is a plus. They do have some rather funky cut stones at times. If I ask them for a AIGS or GIT they tell me which one they can do (usually GIT)

Of their dematoids, yeah, get one thats papered for sure. (btw, they're not russian, FYI)


-A

 

[Deathspi]

Ah, see, it IS confusing! :p

tourmaline lover, Thats a really nice stone you have! Wish I could judge the one I might buy properly. I have pics that the seller took (not fakey-looking ones like in the shop), but the lighting makes it hard to tell exactly what it's like. I think I might email and ask what the clarity and overall quality is like. Then maybe I can stop dithering! I don't want to buy a loose stone so exportgems isn't really an option at the moment.

EDIT: VapidLapid, do you think it's worth asking if the stone has birefringance since I'm probably going to email anyway, just to be sure?

 

[Arcadian]

there is a simulant that is very sphenal, it is strontium titanate. RI2.41 super high dispersion , almost always has a pale yellow to brownish body color. hardness is 7 I think and not birefringent. Keep in mind that sphene cut straight down the C axis will not show facet doubling when viewed head on. Strontium titanate was synthesized in the late forties/early fifties and originally marketed as diamond simulant (near identical RI) under the name Fabulite. So you do have to watch for unscrupulous sellers faking sphene now that it is getting more popular and costly.

Thanks for this VL. I didn't know if there was one and why anyone would bother. But you're correct, on ebay you see a whole lot of everything.

-A

 

[T L]

Many years ago, exportgems had much nicer stones, but like all ebay sellers, the good stuff is drying up, or their suppliers move on. Many are selling junk now, but it seems that sphene is still an obtainable stone. It's still relatively inexpensive and available, so, I have bought it, and recommend others to buy it from reliable ebay sources.

 

[VapidLapid]

In the picture t_l posted above you can see in the center the doubling of some greenish apricot facets, and also some toward the lower left of those quite clearly. These are the effect of the birefringence. You should be able to find similar phenomena in the photos they sent you. If you cant, then maybe you might ask if they have a shot showing the birefringence.
I should say that I haven't looked into the faking of sphene nor have I heard of any incidents. I was only sharing that it could be done with readily available material. My somewhat good sense tells me, if it can be done someone is doing it.

 

[Deathspi]

That's why I thought I should ask, (or ask for more pics as you suggested) because I don't see the doubling in the sellers pics, but then as I said, they arn't great anyway. I'm sure the chances of it being a fake are small, it just struck me that I couldn't see the birefringence when I first saw the pics. Anyway, I will stop speculating and contact the seller to see what she has to say. I was more worried that the stone would be of bad quality given the dodgy-looking shop it came from rather than fake.

 

[Largosmom]

Really good information here! Sphene is a favorite of mine and I have not yet seen really good sphene in person. Thanks.

 

[Deathspi]

Thanks for the help everyone. I just heard back from the seller. She said there are tiny inclutions but the stone isn't cloudy. I asked her about the birefringence and she replied that the "refraction and pleochroism are fantastic". (oh well!). She offers a 7 day return so I think I might make an offer soon.

 

[LD]

I know somebody who buys from Irinka all the time (mostly silver and lower value jewellery). She hasn't had a problem but I've got to be honest that I've never seen anything from her that has appealed. I don't know whether she sells simulants or not. There is always a risk and it's not just limited to Ebay vendors.

The one thing that I can tell you categorically and Arc has summed it up really well, is that Sphenes can look absolutely pants in photos and even a different colour. The problem is that when you have one in front of you, they sparkle their heads off, giving of a rainbow of colour virtually all the time. When you come to photograph them, unless the gem happens to be in the right mood and so does your camera, you will lose the fire and sparkle and end up with what looks like you've photographed a corpse of a gem! They're incredibly difficult to photograph and actually videos are far better.

If you search on the word Sphene you'll see two photos of mine I posted recently where the colour looks very different. It looks yellow in one and lime green (its real colour) in another.

You SHOULD be okay but it's worth taking the ring when you receive it to a local jewellers to see if he can test it and give you an answer.