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Lower color old cuts set in yellow gold

LGK

Ideal_Rock
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I know the question of: "What does yellow gold do to low color diamonds?" comes up pretty frequently. So anyway, if you wade through this longish post here, I have an observation on that subject :rodent: based on an interesting experience I had today.

I had previously looked at this poor, pretty OEC buried in a ghastly monstrosity of a 1960s yellow gold massive setting at work, and just left it for awhile because it was so dang yellow- buttery, bright obvious in your face sunshiny yellow. Probably not fancy, but I'd have bet money on W/X or Y/Z, possibly even FLY. Yellow gold prongs, yellow gold all around it. Great cut- very lively, would do fine in a bezel. Currently buried in yellow gold actually. I put it next to my EGL N OEC and it was far, far yellower. Tried this in a couple of lighting scenarios, same result.

I finally got around to weighing the setting, and I decided that the cut was amazing enough I was going to buy it despite the buttery yellow color, which I didn't love, but it's a .60-.70, perfectly cut later OEC and the setting was heavy enough to give good scrap value. So, I was like... I cave, I'll "rescue" it, it was like $750 and the setting will scrap for around $400. So, I'll keep it and eventually do *something* with the stone, because I know the dealer who owns it will eventually scrap it herself- possibly including the center diamond- if it doesn't sell soon.

So I adopted it ;)) :rolleyes: (yes it's a sickness!) and took it home. I decided the prongs were thin enough I'd pop it out myself easy enough, and yep, it came right out.

OMG. It's somewhere between M and N! It's no WAY lower colored than that. And in the old setting, it looked absolutely, positively totally YELLOW. Not off white, not antique white but buttery yellow. Now? It's just plain ol' off white! I simply can't believe the difference. I would've bought it 6 months ago if I had *any* idea what the real color was! I had always kind of thought YG did make lower colors look yellower but I had no freaking CLUE what a giant difference unsetting it made.

Anyway. I have no clue what to do with it, but it will join the .55 ct J/VS OEC in my jewelry box, and the .55 ct J/I1. Someday they'll be something, I swear!
 

Gypsy

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Um. You know that your .55 J OEC has a home with me... to match my existing 5.2mm J VS OEC in a pair of earrings. Just thought I'd remind you.

I so want a diamond to match mine so I can finally have studs.

Thanks for the informative post LGK.
 

yssie

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Nifty - thanks for sharing LGK! Now I am wondering *why*. I'm sure there's a myriad of reasons... was it terribly grubby, or does it "window"?


And do we get pics of it? :bigsmile:
 

LGK

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Yssie|1316401118|3020451 said:
Nifty - thanks for sharing LGK! Now I am wondering *why*. I'm sure there's a myriad of reasons... was it terribly grubby, or does it "window"?


And do we get pics of it? :bigsmile:
Nope, it was a smidge grubby, but the cut is a really quite good one. I am not sure how much is optical illusion- just all that yellow, you see the diamond as yellow? It surprised me, that's for sure.

Ah pics! I'll have to extract my camera from a friend, then... there shall be pics! I can probably even set it in the original setting so we can get a "before" shot too.
 

LGK

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Gypsy|1316400644|3020446 said:
Um. You know that your .55 J OEC has a home with me... to match my existing 5.2mm J VS OEC in a pair of earrings. Just thought I'd remind you.

I so want a diamond to match mine so I can finally have studs.

Thanks for the informative post LGK.
*Snort* :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
 

maplefemme

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That's really interesting, I'd love to see the pics of it in and out of the setting.
I'm also wondering if you actually wanted to make an N-M "look" more like a Y-Z or a FLY would putting it in a gold cup and perhaps a white melee halo for extra contrast, would be viable or not?
 

softly softly

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Coming out of lurkdom to give a shout out to Maplefemme - I'd love to hear what your plans are for your new OEC???
 

LGK

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maplefemme|1316414048|3020533 said:
That's really interesting, I'd love to see the pics of it in and out of the setting.
I'm also wondering if you actually wanted to make an N-M "look" more like a Y-Z or a FLY would putting it in a gold cup and perhaps a white melee halo for extra contrast, would be viable or not?
Based on the way this one looked, I'm pretty sure it would make it look a LOT yellower. I strongly suspect white melee would make a big difference- my M OEC looked about three grades more colored with a white melee halo, actually. But, in this diamond's case I think the *incredible quantity* of yellow gold was a big part of it- you just saw yellow in every direction around the diamond, so it made the diamond appear a lot yellower. A much less metal-intensive setting? Might not do the same thing. The setting this diamond had is this HUGE, asymmetrical, '60s monstrosity, with a very prong-y ruby halo. The yellow gold band is huge, like knuckle to knuckle on me almost.
 

maplefemme

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softly softly|1316416240|3020541 said:
Coming out of lurkdom to give a shout out to Maplefemme - I'd love to hear what your plans are for your new OEC???
Hi Softly Softly :wavey:
Victor has it and he sent it to GIA for me last week so whilst it's being graded I have to decide and commit to a design.
I originally had an idea, a solitaire with pave and double prongs.
So that's what VC and I discussed and decided on...
But then Frankie posted her halo by Victor and I LOVE it and asked VC his thoughts. He thinks the contrast of the melee would make the OEC look more yellow than it really is in a halo setting, so I digressed.
Seems like LGK had the same experience with her OEC facing up a lower color next to a whiter halo.
Well, it got me thinking the other day, "just how yellow can I make it look intentionally then? Can I yellow gold cup it and contrast it with a white halo, would that look appealing?"... Hence me asking LGK her thoughts because of her experience with this new OEC looking so buttery due to the setting. But it's a no-go and that's ok...have to ask options, right?!

It's a lot of pressure to pick a forever setting!

How warm would you say the stone is Softly Softly? What was it like in different lighting?
So I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick to the solitaire style now, no halo, no cup.
Victor says it's a nice, lively stone. I really can't wait to see it!
Whenever my SO proposes I'll be sure to post pics for you ;))
 

maplefemme

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LGK|1316416953|3020545 said:
maplefemme|1316414048|3020533 said:
That's really interesting, I'd love to see the pics of it in and out of the setting.
I'm also wondering if you actually wanted to make an N-M "look" more like a Y-Z or a FLY would putting it in a gold cup and perhaps a white melee halo for extra contrast, would be viable or not?
Based on the way this one looked, I'm pretty sure it would make it look a LOT yellower. I strongly suspect white melee would make a big difference- my M OEC looked about three grades more colored with a white melee halo, actually. But, in this diamond's case I think the *incredible quantity* of yellow gold was a big part of it- you just saw yellow in every direction around the diamond, so it made the diamond appear a lot yellower. A much less metal-intensive setting? Might not do the same thing. The setting this diamond had is this HUGE, asymmetrical, '60s monstrosity, with a very prong-y ruby halo. The yellow gold band is huge, like knuckle to knuckle on me almost.
Thanks LGK, I think setting size and quality of the gold is definitely having a big impact on color and a cup might not pack the same punch then and butter up my OEC enough.

I had to ask your thoughts, cheers!
 

yennyfire

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That's a really interesting observation LGK! Thanks for sharing! I'm so jealous that you get to rescue all of these poor OECs and give them a good home!
 

coati

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LGK-my M-N color OEC is set in a yellow bezel, and it faces up much whiter than in its platinum setting, where the body color was really obvious. People are often shocked at how warm the stone actually is.

When I worked in old cuts it was definitely a case-by-case thing depending on the cut of each stone and the setting style. We set many warm old cuts (oecs and trannys) in yg without detriment, and often they would face-up whiter. We dealt in really well-cut old stones, though, so that made a difference I am sure. Also, stones were set with finesse-bezels covered very little diamond and prongs were delicate, which is very different from the yg ring you described.
 

coati

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maplefemme|1316414048|3020533 said:
That's really interesting, I'd love to see the pics of it in and out of the setting.
I'm also wondering if you actually wanted to make an N-M "look" more like a Y-Z or a FLY would putting it in a gold cup and perhaps a white melee halo for extra contrast, would be viable or not?
In my experience with well-cut OECs and transitional cuts, an M-N will not look like a Y-Z with a gold cup, and white melee will only make it look more off-white (mid-range M-P) rather than FLY or Y-Z yellow. The stone needs to be more in the Q-R color range before a cup will make a difference, but again, it depends on the cut of the stone, a case-by-case basis. The better the cut, the more brilliance, which hides body color.
 

Rockdiamond

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I've had different experiences- but also we need to look at how the old stone is cut- and the quality and design of the yellow gold setting.
Certain old mine cuts have more ability to show yellow- and certain yellow gold is much more yellow.
My experience is that a yellow gold cup/prongs can make a M-N color stone look quite yellow.
 

coati

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Yep, case-by-case. I was referring to well-cut OECs and transitional cuts. Old mine cuts, antique cushions and other old cuts will definitely show more body color, and may subsequently be affected by a cup. Depends on the cut. There are too many variables to consider with old cuts when factoring metal color.
 

Rockdiamond

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Thanks Coati- but remember there are some extremely well cut OEC, traditional and OMC's that show color by design.
 

coati

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Thanks David, but remember we all have different ideas of goodly "make" in old cuts. Also, the very best-cut OECs that I've worked with have all faced up much-much whiter than their color grades. Always with old cuts, case-by-case.
 

maplefemme

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coatimundi|1316452611|3020718 said:
maplefemme|1316414048|3020533 said:
That's really interesting, I'd love to see the pics of it in and out of the setting.
I'm also wondering if you actually wanted to make an N-M "look" more like a Y-Z or a FLY would putting it in a gold cup and perhaps a white melee halo for extra contrast, would be viable or not?
In my experience with well-cut OECs and transitional cuts, an M-N will not look like a Y-Z with a gold cup, and white melee will only make it look more off-white (mid-range M-P) rather than FLY or Y-Z yellow. The stone needs to be more in the Q-R color range before a cup will make a difference, but again, it depends on the cut of the stone, a case-by-case basis. The better the cut, the more brilliance, which hides body color.
I won't get to see my OEC before it's set so I'm not sure just how well it's cut, I'm probably best to err on the side of caution.
Coati, I LOOOVE your OEC in your avatar, it's beyond gorgeous, especially in that setting, it's just perfection.
 

coati

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maplefemme-thank you so much! I want to see pics of your OEC-I bet it's gorgeous. Looking forward to seeing your finished piece!

My setting has a fairly thick yg cage underneath the stone (to protect my finger from the culet-the stone is set very low), and it has made absolutely no difference in the face-up color. Just thought I'd add with all of the talk of cups and whatnot. The undercarriage was added later, so I could compare before and after. No difference in the M-N color-factor of the cut.
 

Rockdiamond

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Coati- just curious, but why add a cup under a bezel set stone?
Normally, it would be done to add color- but it does not sound as though that was your goal..... I do agree that the results are awesome- I love how the ring in your avitar looks

We've set literally thousands of "cape" stones in yellow gold- and usually the difference is quite noticeable. Diamonds tend to use light from all over- girdle and pavilion included. So yellow gold placed in these areas usually has a great effect on face up.

Also- I think most well trained diamond people will probably agree on what is a well cut stone.
But lately we've worked with some stones cut to show the color and I've realized that a lot of how much color a stone "borrows" has a lot to do with PA, girdle thickness, and other factors.
 

maplefemme

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coatimundi|1316456442|3020780 said:
maplefemme-thank you so much! I want to see pics of your OEC-I bet it's gorgeous. Looking forward to seeing your finished piece!

My setting has a fairly thick yg cage underneath the stone (to protect my finger from the culet-the stone is set very low), and it has made absolutely no difference in the face-up color. Just thought I'd add with all of the talk of cups and whatnot. The undercarriage was added later, so I could compare before and after. No difference in the M-N color-factor of the cut.
That's interesting and good to know, thank you Coati. I really need to find another OEC that I can set in yg, your ring has convinced me just how beautiful OECs can look bezeled in yg...I must have one!
It looks so lush and rich..your three stone in yg is also just such a beauty :love:

My OEC is formerly Softly Softly's OEC and it's the one in her avatar. I'll definitely post when I get it!
 

coati

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David-It's not a cup. The cage/undercarriage was added to protect my finger from the culet, as the stone was set so low that the culet pushed into the flesh. Previously, the ring was completely open on the underside.

What were the cuts of the thousands of cape colored stones you set in yg? Were they all well-cut oecs or transitionals? Or are you referring to OMCs, cushions, pears, marquises, and other fancies... I maintain that the best-cut warmer oecs and transitional cuts that I've worked with faced-up considerably whiter than their color grades. I'm not talking about antique cushions, old miners or other fancy cuts. Some cuts are definitely used to maximize color-like radiant cuts, but I'm referencing OECs and trannys with specific proportions. We can't lump all cape colored cuts together.
 

coati

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maplefemme|1316457735|3020795 said:
coatimundi|1316456442|3020780 said:
maplefemme-thank you so much! I want to see pics of your OEC-I bet it's gorgeous. Looking forward to seeing your finished piece!

My setting has a fairly thick yg cage underneath the stone (to protect my finger from the culet-the stone is set very low), and it has made absolutely no difference in the face-up color. Just thought I'd add with all of the talk of cups and whatnot. The undercarriage was added later, so I could compare before and after. No difference in the M-N color-factor of the cut.
That's interesting and good to know, thank you Coati. I really need to find another OEC that I can set in yg, your ring has convinced me just how beautiful OECs can look bezeled in yg...I must have one!
It looks so lush and rich..your three stone in yg is also just such a beauty :love:

My OEC is formerly Softly Softly's OEC and it's the one in her avatar. I'll definitely post when I get it!
Oh I did not realize your stone was Softly Softly's! I love that stone-a beautiful cut! I've always admired it. I'm really looking forward to seeing how you set it!

I always suggest that folks set their stone in whatever metal they love and choose to wear. Some stones will be impacted by the surrounding metal-others may not. (The same goes with bezel settings-some stones will lose light return while others may not.)
With old cuts, there are just so many variables that it's not cut and dry. I've provided anecdotal insight, as have others, but really, these cuts should be evaluated individually.

Thanks about the three stone! I'm partial to old cuts in yg, but I also love them in white metal. So many great examples on this forum!
 

maplefemme

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coatimundi|1316458549|3020812 said:
maplefemme|1316457735|3020795 said:
coatimundi|1316456442|3020780 said:
maplefemme-thank you so much! I want to see pics of your OEC-I bet it's gorgeous. Looking forward to seeing your finished piece!

My setting has a fairly thick yg cage underneath the stone (to protect my finger from the culet-the stone is set very low), and it has made absolutely no difference in the face-up color. Just thought I'd add with all of the talk of cups and whatnot. The undercarriage was added later, so I could compare before and after. No difference in the M-N color-factor of the cut.
That's interesting and good to know, thank you Coati. I really need to find another OEC that I can set in yg, your ring has convinced me just how beautiful OECs can look bezeled in yg...I must have one!
It looks so lush and rich..your three stone in yg is also just such a beauty :love:

My OEC is formerly Softly Softly's OEC and it's the one in her avatar. I'll definitely post when I get it!
Oh I did not realize your stone was Softly Softly's! I love that stone-a beautiful cut! I've always admired it. I'm really looking forward to seeing how you set it!

I always suggest that folks set their stone in whatever metal they love and choose to wear. Some stones will be impacted by the surrounding metal-others may not. (The same goes with bezel settings-some stones will lose light return while others may not.)
With old cuts, there are just so many variables that it's not cut and dry. I've provided anecdotal insight, as have others, but really, these cuts should be evaluated individually.

Thanks about the three stone! I'm partial to old cuts in yg, but I also love them in white metal too. So many great examples on this forum!
Thank you! I bought it from JbEG not knowing it belonged to a PSer, though ironically, PS was a very large influence in me choosing an OEC, there are so many great examples on here, yes, and there looks to many more on the way...
Is it OECs that have leakage that tend to be poor bezel candidates or are other factors at play?
What color is your avatar OEC? It's a veritable kaleidoscope!
 

Rockdiamond

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Over the years I'd say we've set marquises, pears, rounds, ovals, OEC's, OMC, CMB's, CB's , Radiant Cuts, Princess Cuts....what am I forgetting....

I think we basically agree that it's a case by case basis.... I think where we differ is that my experience has been that yellow has an impact in most cases...
OUCH, culet into finger sounds painful!! good thing you got that fixed!! :appl:
 

LGK

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coatimundi|1316456442|3020780 said:
maplefemme-thank you so much! I want to see pics of your OEC-I bet it's gorgeous. Looking forward to seeing your finished piece!

My setting has a fairly thick yg cage underneath the stone (to protect my finger from the culet-the stone is set very low), and it has made absolutely no difference in the face-up color. Just thought I'd add with all of the talk of cups and whatnot. The undercarriage was added later, so I could compare before and after. No difference in the M-N color-factor of the cut.
I also suspect the *size* of the diamond has an effect. This one isn't large- so, when surrounded by sooooo much yellow gold, I think that fools the eye quite a bit- to say this diamond was overwhelmed by it's setting would be an... understatment. I think a much larger stone wouldn't have the optical-illusion effect as much, especially if the diamond-to-setting ratio was a bit less ridiculous!

This one did have a gold cup, basically. And it was, for sure, a bit dirty, though not filthy- I thought I had it clean but after popping it out, there's no *way* it could've gotten totally clean with all the metal under it- it just had a tiny hole where the culet was essentially. Looking at it in a bunch of different lighting now that it's unset, I'd say it's better cut than most, but not as well cut as the two I wear on a daily basis- some darkness shows under the table occasionally.
 

coati

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maplefemme|1316459680|3020832 said:
Thank you! I bought it from JbEG not knowing it belonged to a PSer, though ironically, PS was a very large influence in me choosing an OEC, there are so many great examples on here, yes, and there looks to many more on the way...
Is it OECs that have leakage that tend to be poor bezel candidates or are other factors at play?
What color is your avatar OEC? It's a veritable kaleidoscope!
re bezels, case-by-case basis. It depends on the proportions of your stone. Some old cuts are great bezel candidates-the stone in my avatar is one, but it has minimal light loss and functions differently than others. I've worked with jewelers that absolutely do not believe that bezeling puts a damper on brilliance, (they wave it off as hogwash) but it can happen. The craftsmanship of the bezel plays a role as well.

My avatar stone in the M-N range-closer to N. And thanks-I have a lot of fun with this stone!
 

maplefemme

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coatimundi|1316535925|3021406 said:
maplefemme|1316459680|3020832 said:
Thank you! I bought it from JbEG not knowing it belonged to a PSer, though ironically, PS was a very large influence in me choosing an OEC, there are so many great examples on here, yes, and there looks to many more on the way...
Is it OECs that have leakage that tend to be poor bezel candidates or are other factors at play?
What color is your avatar OEC? It's a veritable kaleidoscope!
re bezels, case-by-case basis. It depends on the proportions of your stone. Some old cuts are great bezel candidates-the stone in my avatar is one, but it has minimal light loss and functions differently than others. I've worked with jewelers that absolutely do not believe that bezeling puts a damper on brilliance, (they wave it off as hogwash) but it can happen. The craftsmanship of the bezel plays a role as well.

My avatar stone in the M-N range-closer to N. And thanks-I have a lot of fun with this stone!
Yes, I recall a post here discussing bezels and if cutting off light from the girdle and pavilion has an effect. Different people had some conflicting opinions in the debate.
Well, it works for your beauty!
 

LGK

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maplefemme|1316551944|3021589 said:
coatimundi|1316535925|3021406 said:
maplefemme|1316459680|3020832 said:
Thank you! I bought it from JbEG not knowing it belonged to a PSer, though ironically, PS was a very large influence in me choosing an OEC, there are so many great examples on here, yes, and there looks to many more on the way...
Is it OECs that have leakage that tend to be poor bezel candidates or are other factors at play?
What color is your avatar OEC? It's a veritable kaleidoscope!
re bezels, case-by-case basis. It depends on the proportions of your stone. Some old cuts are great bezel candidates-the stone in my avatar is one, but it has minimal light loss and functions differently than others. I've worked with jewelers that absolutely do not believe that bezeling puts a damper on brilliance, (they wave it off as hogwash) but it can happen. The craftsmanship of the bezel plays a role as well.

My avatar stone in the M-N range-closer to N. And thanks-I have a lot of fun with this stone!
Yes, I recall a post here discussing bezels and if cutting off light from the girdle and pavilion has an effect. Different people had some conflicting opinions in the debate.
Well, it works for your beauty!
Ditto to what Coati said.

I couldn't see any difference in performance when I put my 3.39 ct OEC in a bezel, when it was previously prong set. It is a well cut OEC.

It really, really depends on the stone. Some will be killed dead by a bezel- was it natascha who was talking about how her new bezel setting on her OMC killed the fire, in the regrets thread in Hangout recently? I can't remember and am too lazy to look it up. But it can happen, for sure.
 

softly softly

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maplefemme|1316427887|3020561 said:
softly softly|1316416240|3020541 said:
Coming out of lurkdom to give a shout out to Maplefemme - I'd love to hear what your plans are for your new OEC???
Hi Softly Softly :wavey:
Victor has it and he sent it to GIA for me last week so whilst it's being graded I have to decide and commit to a design.
I originally had an idea, a solitaire with pave and double prongs.
So that's what VC and I discussed and decided on...
But then Frankie posted her halo by Victor and I LOVE it and asked VC his thoughts. He thinks the contrast of the melee would make the OEC look more yellow than it really is in a halo setting, so I digressed.
Seems like LGK had the same experience with her OEC facing up a lower color next to a whiter halo.
Well, it got me thinking the other day, "just how yellow can I make it look intentionally then? Can I yellow gold cup it and contrast it with a white halo, would that look appealing?"... Hence me asking LGK her thoughts because of her experience with this new OEC looking so buttery due to the setting. But it's a no-go and that's ok...have to ask options, right?!

It's a lot of pressure to pick a forever setting!

How warm would you say the stone is Softly Softly? What was it like in different lighting?
So I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick to the solitaire style now, no halo, no cup.
Victor says it's a nice, lively stone. I really can't wait to see it!
Whenever my SO proposes I'll be sure to post pics for you ;))
Hi Mapelfemme! Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. How exciting that you are having Victor create a setting for you. I tend to agree with him though, that the contrast of white melee in a halo would make the stone look more yellow. I found that in most lights it was mostly white/ivory, but it also tended to pick up on the colours around it as do most diamonds and light entering from the side really brought out the warmth of the stone. I'm going to try and attach a couple of photos for you to show how bright the stone is and how it responded to the colours around it

P1012533.jpg
 
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