shape
carat
color
clarity

Looking for your opinion on a rock...

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Gradiuspilot, May 31, 2018.

  1. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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    by Gradiuspilot » May 31, 2018
    Hi Everyone,

    Like many of us here. I recently ordered an engagement ring (first time looking at diamonds). I’m having second thoughts on the diamond I chose and wanted to ask some experts. :) I can still change my order.

    https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4181137

    My main worry is whether the diamond is really an “H” colour as stated. To my “untrained eye on a computer screen” I see a fair bit of colour in it and wondering if it is borderline H or even I/J (some mixed/bad reviews of IGI floating around online have also made me wonder). I also noticed is that the site lists the symmetry as excellent but the grade (certificate) is “very good”.

    Would appreciate your views on the diamond. Thanks a lot for your help!
     
    


    


  2. kn5
    Rough_Rock

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    by kn5 » May 31, 2018
    What is it going to be set in? Halo? Solitaire on plain band? White gold or yellow gold or platinum? The answers would all differ based on how it’s going to be set in my humble opinon.
     
  3. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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  4. skypie
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by skypie » Jun 1, 2018
    I would pass on this diamond. It's not well cut. The table is big and the crown angle is too high. And the IGI cert is a killer.
     
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  5. JulieN
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by JulieN » Jun 1, 2018
    I'm sure the price was good but you really should choose a different one.
     
  6. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Jun 1, 2018
    HCA = 4.1 (you want to be 2 or less)

    IGI is not a very good cert. Mall stores like Helzberg's and similar utilize the certs with pride. The reality is they don't have very strict grading standards. Many people have complained about the color indicating it can easily be off 1-2 clicks.

    Personally I'd return and try to find something else. What is your budget and criteria? We can help you find something better most likely.
     
    rockysalamander likes this.
  7. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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    by Gradiuspilot » Jun 1, 2018
    Now I am so glad I asked for help.

    My budget is between $6500-$7500 USD (cost including ring).

    I was hoping to stay with James Allen (if possible) and use the same ring design: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/e...ld-marquise-shape-three-stone-ring-item-59119

    In terms of criteria: was initially looking for round, excellent cut, VS-1, H colour, around 1 carat. But I am not too strict on the parameters - this was just my initial thinking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
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  8. TreeScientist
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by TreeScientist » Jun 1, 2018
    Agreed with @sledge, I would avoid IGI in this case. They're frequently 1-2 grades "softer" for both color and clarity compared to GIA/AGS standards, so it could easily be an I/VS1 or J/SI1. And, as already mentioned, that crown angle is much too high for the pavilion angle. You can see the leakage under the table in the video.

    This is the closest to a well-cut diamond I could find in the H/VS range listed on James Allen. If you ask for the "Pricescope discount", then it should bring the down to around $6500, which is at the top end of your budget.
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5030527

    Have you thought about dropping the clarity to the SI1 level? You could still likely find an "eye-clean" SI1.

    Also, if you drop to the .9 carat range, you'll be able to get much more for your money without too much difference in size (about .2mm). I understand that some people want to hit 1 carat for sentimental reasons though.
     
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  9. TreeScientist
    Brilliant_Rock

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  10. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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    by Gradiuspilot » Jun 1, 2018
    Thanks a lot TreeScientist (and others)! I would definitely be comfortable dropping to 0.9 carats if it improves choice. SI1 I could likely handle, although I am less optimistic regarding my own ability to discern “eye clean”...
     
    rockysalamander likes this.
    


    


  11. TreeScientist
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by TreeScientist » Jun 1, 2018
    If you (and your fiancee-to-be) have no requirements that it MUST be 1 carat, then I would definitely recommend staying in the .9 carat range. You can find a nice stone at the lower end of your budget ($5000-5500) in this range, and you won't notice any real difference in size face-up. There's quite a premium charged for hitting the magic 1 carat mark.

    I would put the .9 carat that I suggested on hold and request an IdealScope image. Come back here and post the IdealScope image once you receive it so we can let you know if it's good or not. Other posters on this site may have other suggestions for stones as well, but I do think the one I linked would be a good option to consider. You get 3 IS image requests with James Allen, so it would be worth it to use one of them of this diamond.
     
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  12. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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    by Gradiuspilot » Jun 1, 2018
    Thanks. I’m going to follow your advice and follow-up here. One last question - I didn’t know there was a pricescope discount? I just mention that to the retailer? :)
     
  13. TreeScientist
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by TreeScientist » Jun 1, 2018
    Yep, just mention it to the rep. If you go to any other diamond help website (there's a lot that have names like Diamond pro, diamond teacher, etc.) and ask for help, they get a 5% commission from James Allen for "helping" you find a diamond. It's part of their affiliate program. See here:
    https://affiliates.jamesallen.com/

    By saying that you went to Pricescope for help instead, they give you a portion of that 5% commission they would've been paying out to these other websites back to you in the form of a discount (and I think that Pricescope itself may get a small portion as a commission. That is how the website is maintained plus advertising comissions as well. But I could be wrong. I'm making an assumption here. Please correct me if I'm wrong pricescope mods :) ):

    So more money in your pocket, plus we're better than those "Diamond Help" websites anyway ;)2.

    So yes, just ask the sales rep for the "PriceScope Discount"
     
  14. doc3
    Rough_Rock

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    by doc3 » Jun 1, 2018
    Some other options in ideal cut diamonds to think about below. Agree with TreeScientist about clarity/size flexibility opening up some more options for you. I just went through the buying process and started with James Allen too. When I read more about cut it just made more sense to me to go with a reputable super-ideal company (like BGD, Whiteflash, etc.). That way you can focus more on the other features and trust that the cuts are usually very high quality.

    https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/0.910-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104098251018
    BGD says all their SI1 stones are eye clean, but smaller size on this one.

    https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/....028-i-vvs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104099782006
    This one looks great. Has strong blue fluor, which when combined with the ideal cut should help the diamond face up more white. Still not bad at all at I color. Pushing your budget, but ask BGD about available discounts. Just graded on 5/21/18 so new to inventory, if interested don't wait too long to put on hold (these go fast). This is my personal favorite.

    https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ags-bl-104097079008#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/3/
    Bigger option that sacrifices some color, but this one would perform well.

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3982384.htm

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3984588.htm
    Eye clean H/SI1 ACA from Whiteflash. Hits the 1 ct mark.

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3936450.htm
    I/VS1 from Whiteflash. Smaller diamond but looks like pretty good value. Would leave you more for the setting than the others.

    Good luck!

    Edited to add: I know you like the setting at JA, but check with other vendors to see if they have something comparable. Could also consider finding a similar setting at a local jewelry store and having them set a diamond you buy online, but they may charge a setting fee.
     
  15. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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    by Gradiuspilot » Jun 1, 2018
    I called and placed this diamond on hold. Sadly, I’m told IS imaging is not available for this diamond. Am I committing a cardinal diamond-buying sin if I don’t have that IS imaging in hand? At the very least, I think I am moving up from what I began with linking in here.

    Doc3, those are amazing looking diamonds, but for various reasons I’d like to stick with JA. (Edit: And I am grateful for the links, which I did look at!)
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
    


    


  16. TreeScientist
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by TreeScientist » Jun 1, 2018
    I wouldn't call it the cardinal sin. If you really like the diamond, then order it. Not really any risk here. I'm guessing the diamond is in India if they cannot get an IS, so they will have it shipped to the JA office in New York after you purchase it. Tell them that you want them to take an IdealScope Image and send it to you once it arrives in the New York office. If you don't like the image, then return it. Very simple with James Allen.

    From the video, I can tell you that the IdealScope image would definitely not come back "terrible." It is a nicely cut diamond. But there's a few things we cannot tell from the video alone that the IdealScope image let's us analyze, like any leakage near the rim of the table and also severe painting/digging of the crown. For that, the IS image is valuable.

    And yes, it is most definitely a step up from the diamond you were first considering. ;-)
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  17. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Jun 1, 2018
    Thank you for further defining what you want. What is your most important quality you seek? The reason I ask is because I am all about the cut. For me this means a super ideal diamond with hearts & arrows or something very, very close is a must have. The advantage is a super ideal is so well cut it usually has the advantage of facing up whiter than the specified color.

    FYI, I wouldn't discount the BGD stones. As you will learn, they are amongst the top in cut quality and the customer service is fantastic (where I personally chose to buy my own diamond for my girl). If you are worried about the settings I would encourage you to visit their available settings as I saw a few that were similar. Theirs were more expensive, but I think that's because the side stones were bigger. Worst case is you could talk with Lesley @ BGD and show her the link to the JA setting. They could either replicate it or possibly arrange a deal where they buy the JA setting and then they supply/set the stone. With that said, I'd encourage you to reconsider some of the stones @doc3 recommended.

    Also I'd open up your search criteria to WhiteFlash. They have some beautiful stones with all the data transparently available so you can make a great choice buying online. Plus, they have one of the better trade-up programs and are very well respected here. They too have custom setting options and flexibility like BGD (know this because I talked to them when I was looking). Here is one that is very similar to the JA setting and that I personally like a little better:

    https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...dutchess-three-stone-engagement-ring-4154.htm

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3963053.htm
    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3520058.htm
    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947635.htm
    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3964565.htm

    My curve ball...slightly smaller, but gorgeous and an E color! And well below budget! FWIW, I had similar criteria as you when I started looking around and ended up with a BGD 0.867, H, VS2 for approx $4800. While carat weight was a little less, the dimensions actually were better than some stones of higher carat weight. While technically smaller than the $5600 stone from JA, the dimensions are so minuscule I don't think you can tell with your eye.

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3982403.htm
     
  18. molecule
    Shiny_Rock

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    by molecule » Jun 1, 2018
    I don't love the 3 stone setting at JA and I believe it will be hard to match with a wedding band.

    This BGD is gorgous.
    https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/three-stone/diana-18k-white-gold-5981w18
    the side profile is beautiful and it will fit well with a band.
    I had hoped that their pears 3 stone rings would be cheaper, as they would have given off the same point towards the setting, while at the stone being a bit wider. Unfortunately it seems like side stones are big and expensive.
     
  19. rockysalamander
    Ideal_Rock

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    by rockysalamander » Jun 1, 2018
    You certainly can get over 1 carat with your budget. See below. I would put all on hold and request an IS image. I'd only consider 4783820 if they have an IS -- otherwise, eliminate.

    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3742688
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4783820 (if you can get an IS, this has a nice high crown and lovely wide arrows)
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4901538
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4632764 (you can still stay above 1 carat and get an IF if clarity is a priority; this has text-book angles)

    Did your girl select the setting you selected? Its very pretty and I love those little sides stones, but I'd say its a specific style that would not be "safe" for everyone and would make adding a wedding band tricky with the low prongs.
     
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  20. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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    by Gradiuspilot » Jun 1, 2018
    Thanks for the suggestions! Re: the ring, yes I am sticking to that particular JA style because I know she will love it (among the many variables, that is one I am confident on. Apologies for appearring stubborn in holding to it).

    rockysalamander, wondering if you prefer your 1 carat plus options to the earlier 0.92 carat? From my perspective, I am not worried at being around (but not at) 1 carat.
    https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4861124

    From looking at your choices, I think my eye most prefers this one:
    https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4901538
     
  21. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Jun 1, 2018
    I won't speak for @rockysalamander but she will respond in more detail when she has time. I will say this, she knows her stuff and I'd listen to her advise.

    Things I will point out. The .92 has notes on the cert about clouds. I doubt they are an issue at a VS1 level, but you need to verify this doesn't create any issues. The 1.11 has strong blue fluor. This will help make the stone appear more white than a true H. Also, if you have a preference towards certs the 1.11 is AGS whereas the .92 is GIA. I'd be okay with either, but prefer AGS personally.

    I think I see what you mean about the .92. It has more contrast in the video than the 1.11 does. I've noticed this in pics & videos of the Created by Infinity (CBI) series of diamonds by High Performance Diamonds (HPD). If indeed I am correct, I think you need to check them out as they are super ideals that have a unique cut that many others have commented look different than the super ideals offered by WF, BGD and similar. I've only seen comparisons on the computer, not in-person, but those that have seen in-person generally like the CBI stuff pretty well, at least from what I've read.
     
  22. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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    by Gradiuspilot » Jun 1, 2018
    Thanks sledge - the contrast of the .92 is indeed what I noticed, but I am not sure if it means anything material.
     
  23. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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  24. rockysalamander
    Ideal_Rock

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    by rockysalamander » Jun 1, 2018
    Good call. Let's look at the IS images. There is a visible size difference between these (especially the 1.1 vs .92) and the light return is equal, my vote is for the large one.

    Size 6, 2 mm shank, .92 on left, 1.11 on right
    upload_2018-6-1_12-51-46.png
     
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  25. Ella
    Administrator
    Staff Member

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    by Ella » Jun 1, 2018
    Hi all,
    This is not correct.

    Just to clarify there is no such thing as a Pricescope discount and dealers should not be offering discounts by calling it that. Further, we do not actually have affiliate relationships with them or get kickbacks on diamond purchases.
     
  26. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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    by Gradiuspilot » Jun 2, 2018
    Thanks everyone for your help so far. I have received two IS images and wondering what you think!

    Here is:
    https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4901538
    (Note - strong blue fluorescence)
    CCE82A95-9B3A-4E1A-88C9-EEDA8D3AE6D8.jpeg

    Here is: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4632764 (Medium fluorescence - color not specified)
    6C754693-926E-410C-9FD1-170AF72E13BD.jpeg


    And finally this option, which unfortunately no IS is available for.
    https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4861124

     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
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  27. rockysalamander
    Ideal_Rock

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  28. rockysalamander
    Ideal_Rock

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  29. Gradiuspilot
    Rough_Rock

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    by Gradiuspilot » Jun 2, 2018
    I think so too! And I don’t think she’ll mind if there is a blue hue in bright sunlight (for my part, I like it).
     
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  30. rockysalamander
    Ideal_Rock

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    by rockysalamander » Jun 2, 2018
    I love flour. Just confirm with JA they will inspect before setting for any haziness. Rare but worth checking.

    Need loads of pics!
     
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