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looking at a princess cut

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sandman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
6
can anybody give me input on this princess cut?

square modified brilliant
6.50 x 6.46 x 4.76
weight: 1.61 carat
depth: 73.7%
table: 65%
girdle: STK
Culet: none
polish: excellent
Symmetry: very good
clarity: VS1
color: I
Flor: none

thanks a million
sandman
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Sandman;

The numbers "look" good but Princess Cuts are extremely
difficult to properly evaluate just off the numbers.
If you're shopping with a B&M, then you have the ability to compare this princess with others having similar specs.
If you're shopping on the Internet, you'll need alot more information, such as a BrillianceScope and ImageScope/IdealScope to start you off and tell you about the diamonds light output and light leakage.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

sandman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
6
barry,
thanks for the reply.

this is a stone here in town. i've looked at it a couple times. i don't have a lot of experience with diamonds, but have looked at several over the past month or so; so i do have somewhat of an idea what im looking for, at least with respect to internal and external flaws. 1) this is the most brilliant stone i've seen so far (just from looking at it). holding it up to other princesses, it definitely looks brighter. 2) ive looked at it through a loop. can't find any inclusions at all in it. im wondering if it's a vvs2 and not a vs1. the owner was having trouble finding anything as well. the certificate is on it's way and we're going to find the inclusions through the microscope, just to satisfy me. i would like to have some identifying marks to know for sure it's my stone when i have work done to it. also, im curious why it's not a vvs2 rather than a vs1; i guess theres a cutoff somewhere when it comes to grading diamonds.

i was actually looking at 2 carat radiant cuts for my girlfriend, but this one is so pretty, that i think the money is more well spent for this rather than a larger one less perfect than this.

im under the impression that table percentage 65% or less is better. is this right? i haven't found any data on ideal percentage of depth. i do know that the diamond 'looks' great with the naked eye, as well as through the loop.

there was another guy looking at it as well, so i put some money down on it. price is $7,400.00. im not looking for a great buy, just a fair buy.

any inputs?
thanks a million.
Sandman
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Sandman;

Real good that you have visually inspected this as well as several other Princess Cuts as a basis for comparison.
You obviously like this diamond and that means everything.

Table of 65% or better puts you on the right track but is not an absolute guarantee. There are other factors
working in combination with Table% that impact and determine
a princess beauty, i.e.; Crown angle and height, Pavilion angle, etc. Since I don't have these numbers in front of me and also don't have visual data such
as ImageScope and BrillianceScope,
it's difficult to be more detailed
in my response to you.

It is wise of you to wait for the cert to come in
and then look at the stone under microscopic magnification.

Couple of questions:
1. Who is the certifying lab? GIA?
EGL (which one)? IGI?

2. Does your jeweler offer a return policy? How long?
You might want to use this time to have the stone independently evaluated by the appraisers who frequent this forum such as Rockdoc and Dave Atlas.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
I agree with what Barry is saying.

The next bit of information you want to seek out is crown height and pavilion depth. If you can let us know that we can give you a more educated opinion.

There are certain #'s you want to look for then, but even THEN that is no guarantee to how brilliant it can be.

After I learn crown height/pavilion depth I then seek out the pavilion/crown angle combo. What makes it tricky (for those who are picky about getting the most brilliant stones) is you have 3 pavilion angles and 2-3 crown angles to consider as well.

Of course an optical analysis (as Barry suggests) answers the questions for those who are seeking.

Bill or Dave are good sources for that or a vendor who provides such analysis.

Kind regards,
Rhino
 

sandman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
6
barry and rhino.

thanks for the reply.
this is a GIA certified stone. i have the mini-cert that comes with it. that's all at this time.
will the main certificate come with the detailed specs that you guys were talking about?

my main question i guess is this: by trying to find out more about the stone, i might find some less than perfect qualities about it. this could tarnish how i currently feel about the stone. visually, it none short of stunning to me. through the loop, it appears more perfect than the rating it was given (through my inexperienced eyes). i definitely want to see the flaws, so i can identify it as my stone; also gives a little character to it.

im not sure if they have a buyback policy. since they're brokers, i doubt it. also, is it common practice for a place to allow you to take it to a third party for analysis? how does that work? how much does it cost to have a third party look at it. wonder if i should just make the purchase and enjoy it, without looking into it further.

i hear people say that buying diamonds is an investment. i wonder though, if this is a true statement when it is for an engagement ring, since it will never be sold; only enjoyed forever.

thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. i value your experience.

sincerely
Sandman
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Sandman;

The GIA cert will not list the Cut parameters. For that,
you need either a Sarin or MegaScope analysis.

As far as third-party analysis is concerned you need to take that up with the jeweler you're working with.

Don't look at this purchase as an investment. Big mistake. You're buying it as an expression and symbol of your love.
There is no monetary value attached to that.

Sounds to me like you've found your diamond. Go for it.

Best,

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
----------------
On 2/16/2003 11
6:28 AM sandman wrote:

barry and rhino.

thanks for the reply.
this is a GIA certified stone. i have the mini-cert that comes with it. that's all at this time.
will the main certificate come with the detailed specs that you guys were talking about?
Nope.

my main question i guess is this: by trying to find out more about the stone, i might find some less than perfect qualities about it. this could tarnish how i currently feel about the stone. visually, it none short of stunning to me. through the loop, it appears more perfect than the rating it was given (through my inexperienced eyes). i definitely want to see the flaws, so i can identify it as my stone; also gives a little character to it.

im not sure if they have a buyback policy. since they're brokers, i doubt it. also, is it common practice for a place to allow you to take it to a third party for analysis? how does that work? how much does it cost to have a third party look at it. wonder if i should just make the purchase and enjoy it, without looking into it further.
Well ... the saying is true. Ignorance is bliss. You may want to remain in that bliss but I can tell you there is nothing more satisfying than the hunt and the thrill of finding the prize. You may indeed have a fine stone, it's just that you may want to know beyond a shadow of a doubt. That requires a pro and the peace of mind is well worth it. RockDoc (www.consumersgemlab.com) is a great place to get that professional 2nd opinion as well as Dave and I believe Rich can also do a degree of optical analysis as well.

i hear people say that buying diamonds is an investment. i wonder though, if this is a true statement when it is for an engagement ring, since it will never be sold; only enjoyed forever.

thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. i value your experience.

sincerely
Sandman
----------------

You may also want to see the graphics I just posted on a thread here (9 diamonds listed...) which shows optical results of 2 stones with similar table/total depth measurements.

Good luck!

Peace,
Rhino
 

sandman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
6
barry,

thanks. i really do love it. scared that the more i look into it, the more apt i am to find flaws *LOL*. guess if it were perfect in all respects, it'd cost a lot more. i definitely don't consider this purchase an investment. thus far, i feel like i've made an informed decision on this purchase with the amount of data i have available, e.g., visual, the loup, the specs at hand.

however, i just fisited supercert.com. is that your company? i was very impressed with the amount of information you have available for the diamonds you have for sale. makes me appreciate all that needs to be taken into consideration when selecting the 'perfect' diamond. what else impressed me was that every single princess diamond that i looked at on your site had a table of 65% or less. of all of the random websites that i've looked at when searching for princesses, none of them had any princesses with a table 65% or less. all of them on your site met this one spec alone.

im very interested in the other methods of measuring the diamond for quality. i think though, that im going to make this purchase simply because we love the diamond so much. i may have it analyzed later just to satisfy my curiosity.

Sandman
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Sandman;

Yes, SuperbCert is my company and thank you very much
for the kind words.

Interesting that you point out that all of my
SuperbCert Princess Cuts have Tables under 65%. Again
that is only but one important variable that impacts
the beauty and light output of the stone. As I
mentioned above,there are other equally important and
critical factors that are responsible for maximizing
light output and minimizing light leakage.
For that you need to examine the BrillianceScope and ImageScope data, which I'm sure you've done.

Based on what you've "seen", I agree that you're
making the right decision in going with this Princess Cut.
Go with your eyes and gut.
Don't second guess yourself.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

sandman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
6
rhino

ive just finished visiting your website as well. wow, im learning a lot. between the tutorial and the diamonds that you and barry both have for sale, makes me wonder about the unknown variables on the diamond that im looking at. all i know about the diamond that im thinking of purchasing is the specifications on the first post in this thread. i need to ask them if i have a money back guarentee.

here is a tough question for you to answer, and i know that you can only give a guess. but with the specs at hand that ive given you, what are the odds that the lightscope would yield decent results on my diamond? i know that it is dependant on the rest of the specs that i have not provided to you. just wondering what the norm is with respect to princess cuts and their prevalence of good light return

when i make the purchase, how do i go about sending it to one of you for evaluation, and how much will it be? do you guys charge by carat or time spent evaluating? how am i guarenteed i'll get it back? is it better if i call you in person to discuss this?

thanks
Sandman.

ps...meanwhile, ill go back to the shop and look at the stone through the microscope, as well as see what other types of tools they have for evaluating the stone.
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Sandman;

There is absolutely no accurate way to give you
light output and light leakage data based on the
numbers you posted above. There is no "norm" when
it comes to Princess Cuts. Two Princess Cuts with identical
numbers can perform quite differently on
the BrillianceScope and ImageScope.

If you want this evaluation done, ask your jeweler if he will agree to send the stone to Rockdoc(www.consumersgemlab.com) without you paying for the diamond up-front. Rockdoc has these tools and will
do light performance evaluations for you. You pay him directly and pick up the cost of round-trip shipping and insurance. If your jeweler insists on payment up-front,
make sure you are clear on his return/refund policy.
At this point, you can send it Rockdoc and base your final decision on both his analysis and on what you have seen yourself.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

sandman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
6
barry,

thanks a million for your input and your time. i'll let you all know what i've decided to do.

sincerely
Sandman
 
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