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London is burning...

yssie

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Thank goodness JuneRose!


I have been following the news updates on Google as they come :sick:
 

jewelerman

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Been watch the news and you-tube...its crazy!
 

Arkteia

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My warmest, sincerest feelings of support to those who live in London. I am horrified that the police is unarmed. People are maimed in these riots, many will end up with PTSD for sure... I feel sorry for the police, too, because their lives are also in danger. Sorry, is there any law and order in Britain?
 

TristanC

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I am apalled at the extent to which this has been allowed to continue.

I envy the "Idea" of a police force with no physical deterrent, in a country when arms and violence are not necessitated.
I am proud of a people who are able to band together and to protect themselves in times of tribulation and trial, and to endlessly sweep, clean and mend and to soldier on.

But where the HELL are the lawmakers, leaders and decision makers that should have made the hard decisions to quell what is just opportunistic behavior? These are kids with no agenda, and opportunistic adults (heck, they aren't ALL kids) just taking what they will, if they can, where they can.

I am disgusted with the ineffectiveness of the nation to stop them.

Day 1, I would wait for the nightmare to be over, and the police/government to restore order
Day 2, I would take action and protect mine and my own if I can, without risking my life or the lives of those I love
Day 3, as i watch my shop or car or house burn... I would join the looters to take whatever of value I can, to make the task of financial recovery easier. Why not? After all, that seems to be what everyone is doing. And so, on the third day, the spectator becomes the participant. There is no penalty for taking what you want.

I say let the government declare the end of the riots. Declare a curfew. Bring in the army, safety off. Rubber bullets and tear gas and water cannons, and a good smattering of good old fashioned police brutality. When the dust settles, man the streets again, and take the looters apart. They are cowards and opportunists. Nothing more.

But these thoughts are nothing in reality.
Hence, at the end of the day, my deepest sympathies to all those innocents who lost things irreplaceable: innocence; goodwill for their fellow man; health; their memories of a lifetime of joy; their dreams etc. More for those who were hurt and harmed. May the madness cease soon, and may you all be safe.

I hope somebody does what should have been done a long time ago... soon.
 

Pandora II

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There is real anger at these yobs and with any luck some of the ridiculous political correctness will come to an end.

The spark for these riots was the shooting by police of a man in Tottenham. From what information is available the guy was a gang member and drug dealer and travelling with a loaded gun that had been converted to fire live rounds. It's unclear if he fired the gun, but in this country it's not legal to wander the streets with a loaded firearm so why should there be such a huge outcry about police brutality? Should they wait till one of their own is shot and possibly killed to take these kind of lowlife out?

The looters are from a wide-range of backgrounds - there are websites that are 'naming and shaming' and many of those who are ID'd are from perfectly affluent backgrounds with good jobs. The attitude is that the police can't do much and even if you are arrested... well there aren't enough prisons so the worst you'll get is a fine which is likely to be far, far less than the amount you can make by going out thieving and then selling the loot on.

I don't want to see our police armed on a general basis, but I do want them to be able to keep order without endless public enquiries and suspensions everytime they are accused of heavy handedness. I want a return to the days when misbehaving kids got a clip round the head from the police and learnt a bit of respect.

Fortunately London got off lightly last night - I'll be suprised if it doesn't start up again when the police relax again though - but 3 men were killed in Birmingham when a car of rioters deliberately mounted the pavement and ran them down. Violence in Manchester was also shocking.

I'm also embarrassed by the lack of leadership. I was always a fan of Margaret Thatcher and I think this country needs a suitable replacement who isn't so worried about being 'liked' the way the present lot all are.
 

JuneRose

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Seems London is finally under some sort of control after last night... but the violence has only just started to spread across the country.
It's the stories of families who have lost EVERYTHING that are so heartbreaking. People who lived above their business and only had building insurance, not contents insurance. Their homes and business have been burnt down completely. Sometimes businesses that have been passed down from father to son for generations and survived 2 world wars. Stories of children being trapped in the storeroom of a shop while it was looted and set of fire.

The one ray of hope has been the amazing community spirit witnessed for example in Clapham yesterday. Local people organized themselves and created a "broom army" - coming out on the street with brooms and bin bags and cleaning the area up.

the-clean-up-in-clapham-pic-twitter-via-lawcol888-921730425.jpg

I think everyone who can will be going in to work today. The economy is bad enough.
 

Pandora II

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Three cheers for the Riot Wombles! :bigsmile:

No way will the government advise people to work from home - this mess is costing enough as it is. The small businesses need people to be out shopping and can't afford for staff to be at home rather than working.
 

mayerling

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FH and I are back home preparing the wedding, and I can't help feeling we got out of the UK at the right time. We also got contents insurance just before we left which makes me feel a bit better. We can't help being glued to the tv screens all day watching everything, though. It's too disturbing. We've lived in the UK for quite a few years now and have never seen anything like this...
 

NewEnglandLady

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I have to admit that even thought I'm not a resident of UK, I am absolutely outraged about the riots. I hope the police decide to use the rubber bullets today. Finally.
 

Circe

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JuneRose

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Circe|1312997091|2987981 said:
Thinking of all of you: London is one of my great urban loves, second only to NY, and it breaks my heart to think of what's been happening. This article struck a chord with me: while I know you all have more concrete things on your mind, figured it couldn't hurt to post: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting

Brilliant article Circe, thank you. I found myself nodding along the whole way. Although it is hard for me to see the situation from an outside perspective at the moment, the article really verbalized the confusion we have been feeling as to why this has been happening. The comments below the article also make for an interesting read.
 

rosetta

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The father of one of the men killed by the looters has called for calm and peace and shown enormous dignity in his dark hour.

He performed CPR on his son dying on the street.

Harrowing.
 

Pandora II

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Circe|1312997091|2987981 said:
Thinking of all of you: London is one of my great urban loves, second only to NY, and it breaks my heart to think of what's been happening. This article struck a chord with me: while I know you all have more concrete things on your mind, figured it couldn't hurt to post: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting

Having spent 5 of the last 7 years living on an estate much as that described in the article I'd say that article is the pretty much the usual Guardian leftie comment beloved by the guilt-ridden intellectual middle-classes.

This article made more sense to me: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8691363/London-and-UK-riots-The-long-retreat-of-order.html

They've started taking people to court - they are getting SIX WEEKS. Six freaking weeks for destroying people's livelihoods and homes.
 

Pandora II

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rosetta|1313015492|2988143 said:
The father of one of the men killed by the looters has called for calm and peace and shown enormous dignity in his dark hour.

He performed CPR on his son dying on the street.

Harrowing.

So very, very sad and just tragic for the families.
 

Guilty Pleasure

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Any excuse or justification for this sort of behavior is just BS. Some criminal got shot and I don't have a job... so I'm going to to steal clothes from H&M and set people's buildings on fire. :confused:


To all the Londoners, I'm sorry this is happening to your home, and I hope your country can sort it out and come up with a viable solution to this and other problems. Back in the day, the Brits sent criminals to Australia, right? Maybe you could ship these hoodlums off to Antarctica ;-)
 

Phoenix

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I've been following the news closely and am absolutely outraged too, not least because my family lives in London. Terrible tragedies re those affected. There should be stiff penalties handed out to these hooligans! Sadly, I know there won't be.
 

Kismet

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Although the London/UK riots are out and out horrible, I just got the following spam email about it and I had to laugh. I have to say that it's a pretty lame attempt.

Code:
Hello,

    I'm writing this with tears in my eyes, I came down here to London,United Kingdom with my Family for a short vacation unfortunately we were mugged and robbed at the park of the hotel where we stayed,all cash,credit card and cell were stolen off us  but luckily for us we still have our lives and passport saved .

We've been to the embassy and the Police here but they're not helping issues at all and our flight  leaves in less than 5hrs from now but we are having problems settling the hotel bills  and the hotel  manager won't let us leave until we settle the bills about ($1,750).Can you help us out,Get back to immediately to let you know the easiest way to get the fund to us or How much can you help with?

We are  freaked out at the moment.

Regards
Elbert
 

centralsquare

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Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,216
Kismet|1313112676|2988984 said:
Although the London/UK riots are out and out horrible, I just got the following spam email about it and I had to laugh. I have to say that it's a pretty lame attempt.

Code:
Hello,

    I'm writing this with tears in my eyes, I came down here to London,United Kingdom with my Family for a short vacation unfortunately we were mugged and robbed at the park of the hotel where we stayed,all cash,credit card and cell were stolen off us  but luckily for us we still have our lives and passport saved .

We've been to the embassy and the Police here but they're not helping issues at all and our flight  leaves in less than 5hrs from now but we are having problems settling the hotel bills  and the hotel  manager won't let us leave until we settle the bills about ($1,750).Can you help us out,Get back to immediately to let you know the easiest way to get the fund to us or How much can you help with?

We are  freaked out at the moment.

Regards
Elbert

Was it sent by someone you know? It's always freaky when someone's email gets hacked and an email like this is sent.
 

Arkteia

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Nov 3, 2009
Messages
7,589
Is it true that Theresa May during the first days of riots said that use of water guns was not a good way to deal with riots? That the Ministry of Internal Affairs was practically dragging its feet on the situation? I get my info from the news, sorry if I am wrong.
 

TooPatient

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Sep 1, 2009
Messages
10,295
How are you all doing? Is it getting any better over there?

I hope you and your families are all safe.
 

centralsquare

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Messages
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The news coverage has seemed to stop on this so I was wondering if the riots are over, or whether the media just moved on to the next big thing...
 

Lovinggems

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Mar 28, 2009
Messages
3,622
Guilty Pleasure|1313036068|2988339 said:
Any excuse or justification for this sort of behavior is just BS. Some criminal got shot and I don't have a job... so I'm going to to steal clothes from H&M and set people's buildings on fire. :confused:


To all the Londoners, I'm sorry this is happening to your home, and I hope your country can sort it out and come up with a viable solution to this and other problems. Back in the day, the Brits sent criminals to Australia, right? Maybe you could ship these hoodlums off to Antarctica ;-)

Yes they did, after they stopped sending shiploads of crims to the US. :lol:
 

JuneRose

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
724
TooPatient said:
How are you all doing? Is it getting any better over there?

I hope you and your families are all safe.

Things are a lot better thank you! Seems they finally sorted it out -now the courts have been open extra hours over the weekend convicting the looters!
 

Guilty Pleasure

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
1,114
Lovinggems|1313231944|2989926 said:
Guilty Pleasure|1313036068|2988339 said:
Any excuse or justification for this sort of behavior is just BS. Some criminal got shot and I don't have a job... so I'm going to to steal clothes from H&M and set people's buildings on fire. :confused:


To all the Londoners, I'm sorry this is happening to your home, and I hope your country can sort it out and come up with a viable solution to this and other problems. Back in the day, the Brits sent criminals to Australia, right? Maybe you could ship these hoodlums off to Antarctica ;-)

Yes they did, after they stopped sending shiploads of crims to the US. :lol:


True. Maybe that's why I loved Australia so much when I visited - we colony nations come from the same background of criminals, pioneers, and adventurers :wink2: Just in case my post was taken as an insult, I only mentioned Australia over another colony because it is its own continent, like Antarctica.
 

Pandora II

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crasru|1313131878|2989173 said:
Is it true that Theresa May during the first days of riots said that use of water guns was not a good way to deal with riots? That the Ministry of Internal Affairs was practically dragging its feet on the situation? I get my info from the news, sorry if I am wrong.

It's a tricky one - we have NEVER used water cannon, tear gas or rubber bullets on the streets in mainland UK. There weren't enough police available to control the situation in so many areas and the looters were moving from place to place very fast. I'm loathe to call them rioters as I consider riots to have political motivations rather than just the desire for Nike trainers and a flat-screen TV.

Many of them were hardened criminals - burglary rates went down in those few days as the people that do them were out looting.

The Home Office are very loathe to do anything that could potentially inflame situations or turn it round so that the perpetrators can claim they were attacked, assaulted etc. They police came under a lot of attack for how they handled the G20 protests, the student fees protests etc (unfairly in my view).

The courts are doing the best they can - they were sitting 24/7 to get through everyone. The sentences will be low in most cases, but they aren't releasing people on bail so they have to serve time in prison before their case comes to court. Councils are also seeking to evict anyone convicted from social housing. There is also a petition with over 200,000 signatures calling for the looters to lose their welfare payments (any petition with over 100,000 signatures has to be considered by Parliament). A lot of those involved were also employed (a charity worker, a primary school teacher, a lawyer and an estate agent amongst others) or university students so they will be in big trouble regarding their jobs/future jobs. Idiots!

Since Tuesday it's all been very quiet - over 1,500 people were arrested so probably a lot of the ring-leaders and there are now 16,000 police on the streets as opposed to the 6,000 during the riots.

One thing that has been nice is a fund opened to do 'something nice' for the young Malaysian student who was mugged and then robbed by people who pretended to help him only to go through his backpack and steal his wallet and phone. So far it's raised over £12k. The 'Riot Wombles' have also done sterling jobs in cleaning up affected areas and supporting local businesses - Blitz spirit still alive and well in London!
 

centralsquare

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Joined
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Messages
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Pandora|1313327065|2990546 said:
crasru|1313131878|2989173 said:
Is it true that Theresa May during the first days of riots said that use of water guns was not a good way to deal with riots? That the Ministry of Internal Affairs was practically dragging its feet on the situation? I get my info from the news, sorry if I am wrong.

One thing that has been nice is a fund opened to do 'something nice' for the young Malaysian student who was mugged and then robbed by people who pretended to help him only to go through his backpack and steal his wallet and phone. So far it's raised over £12k. The 'Riot Wombles' have also done sterling jobs in cleaning up affected areas and supporting local businesses - Blitz spirit still alive and well in London!

It's always nice when something good comes out of something so bad. A great reminder of how kind and thoughtful people can be!
 
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