shape
carat
color
clarity

Loads of advice needed for upgrade! (the ring not the wife)

El Duder

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
7
Hi All!

I've been happily married for a decade and it's time to upgrade the ring. When I bought the stone and had it set a while ago, Cushion cut was the thing so that's what we did. Today, the wife is excited about an oval cut.

The current stone is a GIA 1.55c F SI1. I have the full fancy GIA file with the Laser Inscription Registry and receipts and an appraisal for $20K. It's quite nice, and the jeweler that sold it to me is willing to offer me a credit for it towards the upgrade. The credit is around $7K for the whole ring and stone. The setting is damages from normal wear, but I can easily get it warranty repaired. Screen Shot 2021-08-04 at 9.12.41 AM.png I trust the guy, and love him like a brother, but just wanted to get your ever vast experienced opinions.

The rind we'd like to trade up in would be a 2.5c+ F minimum color, and SI1 or SI2 would be fine. I've always known I can get a lesser color or clarity quality and up the size while keeping the price the same. I really would prefer to stay in the F+ space, and take a slightly smaller size. Am I crazy?

What are my options? What is this ring worth anyway? I know how much I paid for the ring/setting, and its a little more than the credit, but the ease of it maybe worth it?

What is a good place to shop for stones that I can have set after the fact? The prices are all over the place it seems, and quite a bit more than I was expecting, but all doable for the right stone.

Thank you in advance for your help, I appreciate it immensely! :)

Screen Shot 2021-08-04 at 9.13.21 AM.png
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
24,270
If the jeweler is offering you credit for only a little less than what you paid then that's your best bet! Usually, way say start at 70% of
what it cost but be willing to go down to 50-60% of what you paid. Resale settings arent worth a lot unless they are branded or from
a "master". Even then they sell for a big discount.

I dont really understand what you mean by asking where is a good place to shop for stones? Your current jeweler is giving you
credit so you need to replace the stone through them. Right, or am I not understanding?

An F at 2.5 carats is going to be somewhat expensive. Like JA is listing them starting around $25k.

We usually suggest going with more balanced specs like G/SI/VS and not high color (F) and low clarity (SI2) but you get to
decide what you* want.

Edit...BTW, I forgot. The $20k appraisal means very little (I'm assuming you already knew this).
 
Last edited:

RunningwithScissors

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
2,236
I personally would be very careful about buying an SI2. I would want to see the stone in person to make sure it is truly eye clean before committing to it.
 

DejaWiz

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
899
Couple of things:

1. What kind (natural grown or lab grown) and shape diamond are you wanting to upgrade to?

2. What is your out of pocket budget in addition to the $7K credit...for just the upgraded diamond?

3. What is your preferred order of the 4Cs, from most important to least important?

4. Have you gotten any written cash offers for the existing ring from a few other places?
 

El Duder

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
7
If the jeweler is offering you credit for only a little less than what you paid then that's your best bet! Usually, way say start at 70% of
what it cost but be willing to go down to 50-60% of what you paid. Resale settings arent worth a lot unless they are branded or from
a "master". Even then they sell for a big discount.

I dont really understand what you mean by asking where is a good place to shop for stones? Your current jeweler is giving you
credit so you need to replace the stone through them. Right, or am I not understanding?

An F at 2.5 carats is going to be somewhat expensive. Like JA is listing them starting around $25k.

We usually suggest going with more balanced specs like G/SI/VS and not high color (F) and low clarity (SI2) but you get to
decide what you* want.

Edit...BTW, I forgot. The $20k appraisal means very little (I'm assuming you already knew this).
Thanks for the great advice! I'll be sure to let you know when I win the lotto, you'll be my first call.

I personally would be very careful about buying an SI2. I would want to see the stone in person to make sure it is truly eye clean before committing to it.

Thank you for the spot on advice. These are the types of things amateurs need to know, and you have opened my eyes. I will be sure to check it out in person. From the little I know, I do know that dirt inside the stone can be unsightly and certainly take away the "special".

Couple of things:

1. What kind (natural grown or lab grown) and shape diamond are you wanting to upgrade to?

2. What is your out of pocket budget in addition to the $7K credit...for just the upgraded diamond?

3. What is your preferred order of the 4Cs, from most important to least important?

4. Have you gotten any written cash offers for the existing ring from a few other places?

Looking for natural, Oval cut.

I think I'd be open to spending an additional $30K+- for the right stone.

Full disclosure I had to google 4 C's. I had an idea of that it was but I did have to google to be sure. I think carat is somewhat important. I'd like a wow size, but I also understand that size in oval could be deceiving. I do not want a frisbee, just something that makes sense.

I have not gotten any cash offers, I have no idea where to start. I'm open to all suggestions.

Having not seen it, on paper, what do you think I'd see on the open market?

TIA! :)
 

El Duder

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
7
If the jeweler is offering you credit for only a little less than what you paid then that's your best bet! Usually, way say start at 70% of
what it cost but be willing to go down to 50-60% of what you paid. Resale settings arent worth a lot unless they are branded or from
a "master". Even then they sell for a big discount.

I dont really understand what you mean by asking where is a good place to shop for stones? Your current jeweler is giving you
credit so you need to replace the stone through them. Right, or am I not understanding?

An F at 2.5 carats is going to be somewhat expensive. Like JA is listing them starting around $25k.

We usually suggest going with more balanced specs like G/SI/VS and not high color (F) and low clarity (SI2) but you get to
decide what you* want.

Edit...BTW, I forgot. The $20k appraisal means very little (I'm assuming you already knew this).


I don’t understand your lottery comment to @tyty333 (who gave you a lot of sound, helpful information).

Do not get an SI2, and be wary of an SI1. F is overkill. Cut is important, and and oval is harder to judge from numbers than a round would be.

Ha! I reread and was totally being sarcastic. I read his comment as balanced being "D/SI/VS". Lol my eyes are tired.

Awesome advice, I am thankful.

F is overkill, do you think G paired with a VS or VVS is the right move?
 

Diamond Girl 21

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 26, 2017
Messages
1,449
Ha! I reread and was totally being sarcastic. I read his comment as balanced being "D/SI/VS". Lol my eyes are tired.

Awesome advice, I am thankful.

F is overkill, do you think G paired with a VS or VVS is the right move?

Jumping in here to say that only you/your wife will know if F color is overkill or not. Color and clarity preferences are very personal. I would suggest looking at various options to see what your preferences are.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,738

DejaWiz

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
899
Looking for natural, Oval cut.

I think I'd be open to spending an additional $30K+- for the right stone.

Full disclosure I had to google 4 C's. I had an idea of that it was but I did have to google to be sure. I think carat is somewhat important. I'd like a wow size, but I also understand that size in oval could be deceiving. I do not want a frisbee, just something that makes sense.

Here is a filtered search for the Price Scope search engine. It'll be up to date with each click as the days go by as sellers add/remove inventory, so you may want to bookmark it in your browser:

 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
12,029
Second the opinion of going with Rhino for the stone!
 

El Duder

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
7

Jumping in here to say that only you/your wife will know if F color is overkill or not. Color and clarity preferences are very personal. I would suggest looking at various options to see what your preferences are.
Thank you, and I will try to look at as many as I can locally!

Rhino (Jon) is the go to guy for Oval cuts.

Awesome! How do I get in touch with Rhino Jon? TIA!

Here is a filtered search for the Price Scope search engine. It'll be up to date with each click as the days go by as sellers add/remove inventory, so you may want to bookmark it in your browser:

TYTYTYTY! This is amazing!

I think G/VS1 would be plenty wonderful.

I will look at this set up closer! TY!!
 

MRBXXXFVVS1

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
1,297
If your wife is used to an F, you may want to stay with a F/VS.

Oval diamonds can be tricky to buy, you want to make sure it's cut well and there isn't a bow tie effect. There are also lots of proportions to consider!

Best of luck!!
 

El Duder

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
7
Another question:

How is this a VS2? Looks pretty dirty form the animation:


And then there's this SI1 that looks much cleaner:



How would you guys rate these stones? What do I not see that I need to see here?

TIA :) :) :) :) :)
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,219
I think you have multiple issues you need to address:

1. Appraisals are notoriously over priced, especially if provided by the selling jeweler. Kind of makes sense as they want you to feel like you got the deal of a lifetime. That said, if you procured from an independent appraiser that used true market value then it may be more accurate. It really depends what type of appraisal you have.

2. Doing a very broad stroke search @ JA, I can see that cushions from 1.5-1.63 carats, F color and SI1 clarity with very good to ideal cut range from $7,200 to $10,000. For arguments sake let’s just assume $8,500 (roughly mid point) is a decent retail price for a similar stone.


We now know 2 things. The first is the $20k appraisal is inflated, even if you added a few thousand for the setting. The second is that as already pointed out you won’t get 100% full retail selling yourself. The tricky question becomes a question of how much of retail value you could obtain by selling. I think if you managed to get 70% you would have won. But it could be less. So how does that look?

Stone = $8,500 retail x 0.70 = $5,950 estimated pre-loved value

Setting = $2,000 x 0.25 = $500 estimated salvage/pre-loved value

Total = $6,450 +/- estimated value

3. Based on rough analysis of #2, it seems your jeweler may be offering a fair trade value for the existing stone & setting. And it is a very hassle free operation too. Time is our most valuable asset so this may have non-monetary value to you. However, if he can’t source an oval you want it’s a moot point.

4. If you and yours wants F color, then stick to your guns! Here’s the deal no one here can tell you what color is right. We can use our own experiences, preferences and generalities to guide you but color is subjective. Plain & simple. I can tell you there are multiple things that affect color:

- The color of the room walls or ceiling
- The color of the shirt you are wearing
- The temperature of the lighting (2,700 kelvin is soft yellow, whereas 5,000k is blue white)
- Fancy shapes (basically anything besides round) will show more color
- Cut quality (more ideal is more white and poorer cut shows more tint)
- Mindset (if you had an F, anything less may be just that….less, at least to your mind)

For more detailed info, read this:


5. The second link you provided above goes to multiple diamonds. The one you asked about that went to a specific diamond I would want to make sure is eye clean. That black crystal in the middle of the table could be a problem. The “dirty effects” I think you see is what I call “mush” on the sides of the table. It looks a bit like dirty crushed ice and I agree with your conclusion that I don’t like it. But that is my preference as I prefer broader and more chunky facets and not the crushed ice look at all. If you and yours also like this, you need to be aware and target such stones so you get exactly what you want.

6. Echo the thoughts of @Rhino to help you with this.

https://www.distinctivegem.com/pages/the-new-signature-oval-by-av-inc
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,219
In regards to clarity you may want to read the following education page. You have several factors at play here. You are going to a larger size and again fancy shapes tend to show inclusions more than round.

In short, it’s very tough to find eye clean SI2’s. They are sort of like unicorns. So I think that will be a very frustrating journey for you. In rounds you see a decent portion of eye clean SI1’s especially from some of the more reputable vendors that house and vet their own stones instead of using virtual inventory.

Remember that clarity is graded using 10x scopes at the lab and done by humans. So there is some subjectivity in the matter. Not all inclusions are equal. Also some people have higher visual acuity than others so for them they can see details others may not. All this factored in means a good value is finding a clarity grade that is eye clean to you and yours and the general population (as she will surely be showing it off).

I’m fairly harsh on clarity. Although I was searching for roughly 1 carat round for my wife I really wanted (and bought) a VS2 stone. While there was a small price premium it wasn’t intense and made me feel better (“mind clean”). When I upgrade her later I will likely use VS2 as a base and prefer VS1 depending how much larger she goes. That said, I’ve seen some great SI1’s so if the right one is available I may surprise myself. I just know me. I scrutinize from all angles and distances and if I saw a speck of anything it would steal my joy of her ring. Tell me how that makes sense, lol. Not everyone shares my views and that’s cool. The take away here is knowing what you and she values and where you want to put your money.

It’s rarely said but IMO there are really 5 C’s with the 5th being cost (or budget). The simple reality is you can move up/down the traditional 4 C’s but ultimately it has to fit inside cost.

Cost = clarity + color + carats + cut

 

El Duder

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
7
Sledge thank you for the super thorough response! I imagine that took you some time and I am thankful to you for doing it. "Time is our most valuable asset". You hit it on the head my friend, and I assign more than I probably should it!
 

El Duder

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
7
So I had some time to really research, and I think I want to sell my ring/stone on the market.

Where wold one go to post the ring for sale, or just the diamond?

I appreciate your help! :)
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,219
You’re welcome @El Duder, I hope it was truly helpful.

In regards to selling your stone there is a preloved sub forum here where you can post. Loupe Troop is also used by many. Another one called I Did but Now I Don’t or something to the effect (haven’t used).

Other potential options are to consider trading with JA or Rhino (assuming either will take it). Just be prepared for trade-in value. Similar to a car, unless you are using a pre-existing trade perk then trading is usually the least profitable but most stress free / hassle free option.

Lastly you may want to reach out to CVB. She frequently consigns preloved pieces for a minimal fee. The advantage is she has lots of followers, an established retailer and can offer the convenience of taking a credit card, etc. Many people get weird dropping larger amounts on diamonds without the assurance of a retailer, so this probably increases your buyers pool considerably.

Again, brace yourself for impact. In my example we used 70% but that is far from a guarantee. I normally expect 50% and am thrilled with more. However, if you are patient and/or land the right deal you can do better.
 
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