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Leonid's posting on WhiteFlash Auction

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mbn

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 8, 2001
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212
The 1.08c It is EGL certificate and i see i has crown and pavilion info which GIA doesn't have.

Usually GIA is more accurate, so to be sure consumers buy GIA stones. NOw i see that certain EGL stones are accurate and pretty good buy for money, I wonder how consumer can shop wisely and avoid heache. I personally like EGL stones bc cheaper price but since not all are accurately represented as GIA, I have my reservations and rather go with GIA rather than buy EGL stones and worry about grades not accurate.

If i KNow info on EGL cert is accurate then i would not hesitate to buy EGL cert stones.
 

ChetLaura

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 2, 2002
Messages
62
I am curious about this Leonid - after all that we have researched it sounds like EGL grading is not very strict. I thought that on an EGL stone you could have a VS1 rating that is really just an SI1 0r the color could really be a couple of letters off from their cert. ?????????


:read:
 

buttercup

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
87
i wouldn't by an egl stone without sending it to a reputable appraiser like dave atlas. but, you're right, egl stones are cheaper...so they could definitely be a great value as long as you got it checked out.
if i was dealing with a reputable vendor that personally examines each of their stones (like leslie), then i would feel a lot better about the egl cert...but i'd still send it to dave.
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
We always recommend checking the stones with independent expert even if they have GIA reports. IMO, if you are sending a stone to David Atlas you don't need any grading report at al - you will get AGA grading report. Actually this might be a way of saving quite a bit of money because prices on certified goods are already predetermined.

As far as I know these diamonds were checked by Brian (the cutter of A Cut Above) and he's comfortable with them. I'm with Buttercup on this.
 

mbn

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 8, 2001
Messages
212
I agree that one always check stone out whether EGL or GIA, but in case customer needs to sell or upgrade stone later on w/someone different than original seller for some reason, industry looks at GIA cert stone more favorably, and it is easier to trade up or sell.
 

mbn

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 8, 2001
Messages
212
then there is the hassle of going back to seller if gradings is actually lower than stated on EGL certificate to negotiage price. If GIA cert, u can be sure chance of going back to seller for dispute is slimmer.
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Mbn, don't forget that consumers have an option to send a diamond to Dave Atlas before paying for it.

One can also request getting GIA report prior to purchase. It'd cost about 150$ plus shipping.
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,440
Please keep in mind that the Gem Trade Laboratory(GTL) is a for profit entity with its offices inside the GIA facilities. It is independent of the GIA education arm.

The GIA diamond grading system is employed by the GTL, but it is a subjective system and no lab employs it perfectly on every diamond. There are a myriad of issues and reasons which don't bear repeating.

The EGL and AGA also use the GIA system. It is just as subjectively used by EGL and AGA as by the GTL. Because of the educational stature of GIA, the GTL has held a very prominent role in international diamond grading. Other labs in the USA just don't have the opportuunity for that appearance of a direct connection to the GIA itself. However, it is a myth that the GTL and GIA are one and the same. They operate pretty much independently.

Diamond given to EGL tend to be traded at lesser amounts because they are secondary type stones anyway. The dealers looking to do international business use the GIA, and use the EGL for domestic business with retailers. You now see that the AGS lab has taken a large bite out of not only GIA, but of EGL's work with their cut grading strategy for round diamonds. When searching for fine makes one often seeks out AGS graded stones.

At AGA we have given the best of what each lab has to offer. Reasonable pricing, rapid service, honest use of the GIA system, cut grading of all the shapes and not just rounds.

A partial reason GIA stones cost more is the large amount GIA charges for grading work and the considerable extra time it takes to put a stone through their lab. Diamond dealers are very conscious of the length of time they own a diamond. The faster it can be sold, the lower the price they will accept.

It is not as simple as lower price due to sloppy or liberal grading. There are many factors to consider.
 

mbn

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 8, 2001
Messages
212
It is true that EGL turnaround time is quicker and I heard EGL LA Lab is accurate. However, EGL cert stones do have reputation for being 2 grades lower than stated on certificate, and consumers have to wait 3-4 weeks for certificate to return if the ordered stone to be certified by GIA, and if it comes back not accurate, one would have to renegotiate, or get money back.

most stores I know only have 2 weeks return policy, nicest one has 30 days. Most stores in LA customers pay cash to get discoutn price then store only give credit if customers change mind. I just wouldn't want to hassle with buying EGL stone if I have to worry about grading not accurate. Industry still value GIA cert stone more than EGL. If one brings EGL stone in for resale, store would send it to GIA first to make sure grading is accurate, humm, why not just buy GIA in first place.
 

mbn

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 8, 2001
Messages
212
I heard there are many EGL labs in U.S, and one in Los Angeles is more accurate, so other EGL labs graded stones quickly, and more lenient, whereas GIA is stricter, that's why turnaround time is slow, so more expensive.

I still prefer to pay higher price for GIA to avoid hassle of sending to GIA again, wait for turnaround time, then have to dispute if not match certificate grading, just too suspenseful.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,670
Then you may miss out on many of these Brillian Ideal Cuts because the trade often does not send these proportioned diamonds to GIA.

I guess it depends on if you are buying for possible resale. For me if the stone is what I believe it is, the paper is secondary. I have a GIA stone here somewhere that I am selling for a grade lower than GIA called it, simply because they are wrong, and I do not need money more than my reputation :)

If Lesley at White Flash says it is that the stone is as described, by reputation I would go with her over a lab, because at the end of the day trust becomes the issue that certs were designed to overcome. Trouble is they too are falliable!
 

mbn

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 8, 2001
Messages
212
So you recommend that consumers buy EGL stone then get it appraised, if matches what cert says, it's all that counts? makes sense. Mkt tend to favor GIA over EGL.

I guess I am only concern about resale in sense if i want to trade up in case orig seller is no longer in business, or I moved somewhere else, i'd have better time trading in w/GIA cert bc most stores believe GIA is accurate. True?

Would u recommend consumer to buy non-certified stone and get it appraised?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,670
True

but you can always get a GIA cert done yourself when / if you decide to sell.

Nothing wrong with buying a non certed stone, exceept it is harder for a novice (easier for a dealer to 'get' you).

Again you will need help. There are usually reasons why individual diamonds go from say Israel to Japan, HK, Seoul, Antwerp, or USA an as to which laabs they get graded at. This decission is made by the smartest guy in the grading section of a diamond cutter. You can get badly beaten up trying to beat these guys.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
I am so glad you confirmed my suspicions, Cut Nut!

After learning about cut, and all the cert labs, etc., I wondered, "Who decides which diamonds get sent to labs and which get sold uncerted?" I guesstimated while ultimately, it may not be the cutters' final decision which diamond goes where, their input was probably given weighty consideration. Any business producing an item to sell has trained/skilled people involved in the process. Who knows more about the actual product? The numbers cruncher behind the desk in the office or the people who create the product?

It would be hard to beat them at their own game, not completely knowing all their rules!
 
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