shape
carat
color
clarity

Leon and AVCs

CharmyPoo|1296742867|2841766 said:
CherryBlossom - I don't think anyone has ever called Leon's hand fabrication to question. I know for all 3 of my Leon rings they are absolutely fully hand fabricated. There are slight imperfections. I don't even think Leon's team is even trained on building wax moulds and absolutely .. they don't do CADs!

I understand that, but you do realize that it can be partially handmade, right? there are specific things that only really appear in casting. There are a few rings in particular that exhibit that, and while I am not 100% sure I have asked someone who I would consider an "expert" and they also find it to be peculiar.

Diamondseeker2006 - Just because a piece has imperfections does not always mean that it's handmade.... when you cast a piece, especially small crevices like the cathedral part of the setting, a ring direct from casting needs to be filed down, polished down to get it to be shiny again because casting causes a dull/unfinished and dirty texture on a piece. So when you get a ring with a cathedral/split (or other openings) you have to get a tool in there to clean up this dirt. I've seen this tool a while ago because I am fascinated with handmade piece, and one of the only tools that small enough is a slaw blade that's used in jewelry work. This saw blade is almost hair thin. The jeweler has to use this saw blade to clean up that crevice. This can and at times does cause slight un-symmetricalness (or should I say asymmetricalness). The jeweler might have used the saw a bit too much on one side than the other. It would be great to get some input by vendors/experts on this site, but as far as I know slight imperfections can be caused by a number of things that have to do with handfinishing, and should not be fully taken as evidence of a handmade piece. One of the individuals who has written some great pieces on these matters is an organic chemistry professor at UCLA who teaches classes on metal composition and even has an honors seminar on metal work. On the side he also makes some beautiful jewelery for friends and family. A while ago I became really interested in metal composition and try to read as many articles about it as possible. Jewelery work has an incredible amount of science behind it, and I am honestly just interested in that aspect of the work, besides the general aesthetic and customer service/cost ratio.

Either way it does not effect me, the rings are still very pretty. There's no way for me to know just based on my novice understanding, or my aunt/mom/friends rings that were made by him, or even the images on a computer screen. I don't think there's a way to prove it's not anyway, and I don't need to prove that point because in many ways it's irrelevant. What I am wondering about is what's stated on the work order or if it's just assumed. My aunt was the last person that I personally know who had a ring made by him and she says that it was never direclty stated but rather assumed. I have not gone through every aspect of his website, but are those specific claims about full hand fabrication made?
 
CherryBlossom, about half way down the home page on Leon's site it state's " Every piece is one of a kind and completely handmade." Although many jewelers do cast and then hand finish, I believe Leon's pieces are hand fabricated start to finish.

http://artofplatinum.com/vault/
 
mrssalvo|1296764461|2842092 said:
CherryBlossom, about half way down the home page on Leon's site it state's " Every piece is one of a kind and completely handmade." Although many jewelers do cast and then hand finish, I believe Leon's pieces are hand fabricated start to finish.

http://artofplatinum.com/vault/

Awesome! thanks for linking me that. I just wonder if he's ever put that on a work order form. Because saying that all pictures shown in "our" image gallery is hand made is bit different than saying "your specific ring will be hand made"
 
Amethyste|1296657197|2840535 said:
LALove,

My pleasure! I have not talked to Steven in a while, so if anyone of you do, please pass along my warmest regards! ::)


Amethyste, your ring i STUNNING !!! can i please ask how long it took him to complete your ring ? also, what type of pave did he use on your ring ? what a beauty !!!
 
I think it took 5 weeks to complete? What do you mean by what kind of pave? If you are asking for stone sizes, I am sorry I don't remember as it was over 2 years ago... :)
 
OK I'm now very intrigued by the "handmade" discussion. Has there ever been any indications, here on PS or otherwise, that Leon has used waxes/molds in the past?

I ask because I took my ring to get appraised, and this question came up. A couple things:

1) I was told that "handmade" in the trade - even "completely handmade" - can still mean cast and handfinished ("handforged" would be the term of art for, e.g., Angietaren's ring where it is literally shaped, drilled, etc). A truly 100% "handforged" ring seems a rare thing these days and is very time/labor intensive.

2) The pure fluidity of the ring *suggested* - was not at all definitive - that it might have been cast and hand finished. Of course I called Leon's office to hear it from the horse's mouth, but they're closed til Tuesday for the gem show.

Personally, in my extensive research on most or all the Leon threads on PS, I have never come across anything that would suggest that Leon uses wax molds, or that Leon's bench does not "hand forge" rings (similar to Angietaren's step-by-step pictorial).

I will give Leon a call Tuesday, but in the meantime I would love to hear from those experts or others who might know more.
 
Cast rings usually come with heads in stock sizes. Leon makes the head to fit the stone. The cast setting I had before Leon's was clearly for a 1.5 ct. stone and my stone was tight in that basket. I had trouble getting it clean. Leon's head fits my 1.63 ct. stone perfectly. Yet the cathedral pieces are a little uneven and obviously not cast. I have seen Harriet's solitaire and it was different from mine. No way those rings were cast. I can't speak for all the rings he has ever made, but mine is handmade.
 
OK just to play devil's advocate, my appraiser was discussing how "cast" can also be that the jeweler makes a custom wax by hand, and then creates a mold from this wax, which is then filled with molten metal. So a cast ring wouldn't necessarily be a stock ring - it can still be custom (as with the CAD/casts custom work we see from other vendors here), but there would be a wax and a mold involved.

So I'm curious about whether any part of Leon's process involves a custom wax mold, or whether it is raw pieces of metal built from the ground up and soldered together like Angietaren's.
 
Love Street|1296859658|2843338 said:
OK just to play devil's advocate, my appraiser was discussing how "cast" can also be that the jeweler makes a custom wax by hand, and then creates a mold from this wax, which is then filled with molten metal. So a cast ring wouldn't necessarily be a stock ring - it can still be custom (as with the CAD/casts custom work we see from other vendors here), but there would be a wax and a mold involved.

So I'm curious about whether any part of Leon's process involves a custom wax mold, or whether it is raw pieces of metal built from the ground up and soldered together like Angietaren's.

I'll be interested to see what you find out. In all my years on this forum, this is the first time I can recall Leon's rings being entirely handmade has come into question. I personally do not believe he uses a wax at all but I have no way of knowing for sure! I do know that one telling sign is whether a pave ring has the tiny holes on the inside. I sent an email to Matthew at Michael B years ago b/c there were questions as to why the MB rings don't have the holes. leon's pave rings don't have the holes either. Here is Matthew's response:


Traditionally, yellow gold was in vogue and the yellow background made the
diamonds look yellow, so holes were used to avoid the yellowing effect of
yellow gold.

MB focused on platinum for bridal and the diamonds actually looked
whiter with the reflection of the pure white metal beneath the diamond.

Also, holes in the back often result in lotion and other residue coming up
into the hole and making the diamonds filthy, forcing you to constantly use
ultra sonic cleaners which in turn loosen the diamonds.

Finally, holes are most often seen in jewelry that is cast to save the
manufacturer money on the amount of metal being used, so that you end up
with a more flimsy and less structurally integrous ring.

We make everything by hand, so structurally the ring is more sound, more
pure, more solid and more beautiful.

A jeweler making a ring by hand won't sit there and drill holes in the back
on purpose, that comes straight out of a wax/mold process which also results
in greater porosity than hand made jewelry.
 
Good post, MrsS! Maytal Hannah, handmade. Tiffany Legacy wedding band, probabaly cast.
 
Love Street - Since your appraiser is also bringing up this issue, if you want I could have my friend and professor that I mentioned earlier look at pictures of your ring. I can't say what their input will be 100% accurate, especially since it's via photos... but I personally consider them experts and I trust their eye with these things. I do not have that same eye or expertise. If you want I can ask them to look at it and post the findings here or on another thread. Just post some close up of the back of the ring with the openings showing. Try to make sure it's from different angles, put the ring upside down, etc.

Also on another note, I think this should go for ALL vendors (not just Leon Mege) who claim to completely make hand fabricated rings. Them writing on a website that all the pictures on their photo gallery shouldn't be taken as assumed proof that YOUR specific ring will be. All the pictures they post COULD have all been handmade... but others that they make might not be. Them saying "fully hand made" still doesn't mean it's casting free. There is no standard regulation here. It's like 100% organic doesn't really mean that because the USDA doesn't have super strict regulations.. as long as ONE ingredient in the product is organic, the package can say "Organic" on it. A ring can be hand finished, or portions of a ring can be hand made, but that is different than having the entire ring hand forged. I think these terms might be confusing some people.

When a jeweler can put it on paper, in the work order, that it's casting free and be liable for a lawsuit if it wasn't then I'd be inclined to believe it. I don't think that this is offensive to ask either, I have spoken to other jewelers about it and they don't have a problem with it. They write down the size of stones used in melee, they write down the metal they use (14k, 18k, platinum) etc. Writing that it's handmade should not be an issue. If the issue of having a handmade ring is important to you (and for many it's not) or if you're picking a designer simply because you want a specific handmade ring, you should ask for it to be put on the work order. I think that LM's ring are still beautiful and reasonably priced. I think the only time this issue matters is if you specifically MUST have a handmade ring or if you are paying a premium for it, in that case it should be common sense to get it in writing, no?

I am not trying to offend anyone, accuse LM of anything, or stir anything up. What I love about this site is the information that's shared and the consumer advocacy approach. I think that we can avoid a lot of future problems with ANY vendor by knowing what we want/what's important to us and making sure that we communicate that information w/ them.
 
mrssalvo|1296860274|2843356 said:
I'll be interested to see what you find out. In all my years on this forum, this is the first time I can recall Leon's rings being entirely handmade has come into question. I personally do not believe he uses a wax at all but I have no way of knowing for sure! I do know that one telling sign in whether a pave ring has the tiny holes on the inside. I sent an email to Matthew at Michael B years ago b/c there were questions as to why the MB rings don't have the holes. leon's pave rings don't have the holes either. Here is Matthew's response:
<snip>

This is *very* interesting Mrs. Salvo - great post and thanks for sharing. For the record, I also believe he does not use wax at all, which is why I was quite surprised - almost incredulous - when my appraiser was hesitant about the ring being entirely hand fabricated with no wax. I don't want to start a firestorm of controversey, and I will talk to Leon, but I'm just insanely puzzled about this at the moment.

On the subject of holes, that letter is enlightening. As you said, Leon's pave rings don't have those little holes. My ring is is ajoured under the French cut sidestones (and some of his halos are ajoured) - but ajour seems different than those very small holes you see on some pave rings. From one of Frankiextah's helpful Leon threads, Leon's use of ajour seems more driven by style than metal economy:

frankiextah|1291250526|2784639 said:
- no "A Jour" (so underside of the halo will be covered with metal, will not see open pavilion of the melee under the halo), this again was a huge discussion with him... he told me that with "a jour" the ring would look more regal and more expensive, however my heart and my gut are telling me that i would be happier with a smoother fluid look, so i went with no "a jour".

[later post, same thread:]

here's a photo of what "a jour" means (the underside of the ring showing the open pavilion of the halo melee diamonds) :

http://www.artofplatinum.com/portfolio/details.php?image_id=183

this ring is made of v-cut pave, together with the "a jour" feature, this ring looks quite antique-y.

here's a photo of what i had asked for (the underside of the ring is metal covered):

http://www.artofplatinum.com/portfolio/details.php?image_id=628

with a smooth bottom side of the halo and cutdown pave, this ring looks a little more fluid, and smooth, which i prefer.

[later post, same thread:]

[. . .], me choosing no "a jour" is basically buying a rolls royce and replacing the interior with plastic, etcetc.... i stayed strong with my opinions on my ring details, including having cutdown pave matched with a halo with no "a jour".

i guess in the event that he decides to post a pic of my ring on his website he would totally be like : "who am i to question if someone wants to replace a rolls royce interior with plastic?" :lol:

If I had to bet money right now I would bet there's no wax involved with Leon. But I want to hear it from the horse's mouth so it can be mentioned in my appraisal report!
ETA: My appraiser said that if it was truly "hand-forged" it would be very impressive.
 
Love Street|1296859658|2843338 said:
OK just to play devil's advocate, my appraiser was discussing how "cast" can also be that the jeweler makes a custom wax by hand, and then creates a mold from this wax, which is then filled with molten metal. So a cast ring wouldn't necessarily be a stock ring - it can still be custom (as with the CAD/casts custom work we see from other vendors here), but there would be a wax and a mold involved.

So I'm curious about whether any part of Leon's process involves a custom wax mold, or whether it is raw pieces of metal built from the ground up and soldered together like Angietaren's.

Hi, the times that me and my DH were consulting with Victor, he was using the terms "casting free" and "hand forged", I don't know if there is a play of words there or not. Maybe we can compare the pieces somehow since they're a similar design and I've established that mine is "casting free". Either way Love Street, I think your ring is beautiful.
 
Love Street|1296859658|2843338 said:
OK just to play devil's advocate, my appraiser was discussing how "cast" can also be that the jeweler makes a custom wax by hand, and then creates a mold from this wax, which is then filled with molten metal. So a cast ring wouldn't necessarily be a stock ring - it can still be custom (as with the CAD/casts custom work we see from other vendors here), but there would be a wax and a mold involved.

So I'm curious about whether any part of Leon's process involves a custom wax mold, or whether it is raw pieces of metal built from the ground up and soldered together like Angietaren's.


Hi Lovestreet,

I would like to add a few realities to the art of ring making,so to speak, from my expeirence @ Dvatche and believe will hold true.

There are 4 ways to fabricate jewelry:

1- CAD technology
2- Hand Wax models
3-Silver hand fabricated models
4- Fabricating directly from choice of metal- ex. Platinum ( Hardest process PERIOD. )

Obviously the first 3 require Molds and CAST etc. but does not mean for example....a simple 4 prong solitaire shank ( cast ) could be hand made or done by hand such as a basket and a plate that is hand cut for the base and pulled wire prongs that are tacked on by hand for perfect fit...

Which ever or how ever Leon creates his amazing and beautiful designs can be explained only by him and I for one will always praise his work, so with that said Leon may be alot of different things to alot of differnt people but he is an artist and perfectionist no doubt...

Lots of PS vendors have the ability for Custom but this area falls under choice and personality of the buyer.

Hope this helps clarify some questions.
 
Angietaren|1296862309|2843397 said:
Hi, the times that me and my DH were consulting with Victor, he was using the terms "casting free" and "hand forged", I don't know if there is a play of words there or not. Maybe we can compare the pieces somehow since they're a similar design and I've established that mine is "casting free". Either way Love Street, I think your ring is beautiful.

No, sounds like he was fluent in the terms of art that my appraiser was telling me about. Thank you for the compliment! I really love my ring no matter what, and the appraiser was also wowed by its design and quality, but I had just assumed it was hand made until he seemed skeptical - and I don't like a mystery! :Up_to_something: :wink2:

Chris - thanks for that extra info on jewelry fabrication - it is very helpful. So when you say...
Chris-at-ERD said:
Obviously the first 3 require Molds and CAST etc. but does not mean for example....a simple 4 prong solitaire shank ( cast ) could be hand made or done by hand such as a basket and a plate that is hand cut for the base and pulled wire prongs that are tacked on by hand for perfect fit...
...do you mean that you can have some sort of cast shank but "hand-forged" or "cast-free" basket and prongs?
 
Love Street|1296863206|2843416 said:
Angietaren|1296862309|2843397 said:
Hi, the times that me and my DH were consulting with Victor, he was using the terms "casting free" and "hand forged", I don't know if there is a play of words there or not. Maybe we can compare the pieces somehow since they're a similar design and I've established that mine is "casting free". Either way Love Street, I think your ring is beautiful.

No, sounds like he was fluent in the terms of art that my appraiser was telling me about. Thank you for the compliment! I really love my ring no matter what, and the appraiser was also wowed by its design and quality, but I had just assumed it was hand made until he seemed skeptical - and I don't like a mystery! :Up_to_something: :wink2:

Chris - thanks for that extra info on jewelry fabrication - it is very helpful. So when you say...
Chris-at-ERD said:
Obviously the first 3 require Molds and CAST etc. but does not mean for example....a simple 4 prong solitaire shank ( cast ) could be hand made or done by hand such as a basket and a plate that is hand cut for the base and pulled wire prongs that are tacked on by hand for perfect fit...
...do you mean that you can have some sort of cast shank but "hand-forged" or "cast-free" basket and prongs?


That is correct, Shank could be casted then,
1- plate of metal can be cut to desired shape of center diamond
2- basket by hand
3- prongs by hand tacked

for a hand made fabricated simple 4 prong solitaire... Exactly.
 
If your appraiser questions it, why don't you have Leon put on paper that it's casting free instead of talking to him. I think he'd be on the hook for his words then;) You could just say it's for my appraisal or whatever. Better yet, have him make an appraisal where he specifically says that.
 
Angietaren|1296865184|2843442 said:
If your appraiser questions it, why don't you have Leon put on paper that it's casting free instead of talking to him. I think he'd be on the hook for his words then;) You could just say it's for my appraisal or whatever. Better yet, have him make an appraisal where he specifically says that.

This +1. Please keep us updated on what he says
 
CherryBlossom|1296861758|2843389 said:
Love Street - Since your appraiser is also bringing up this issue, if you want I could have my friend and professor that I mentioned earlier look at pictures of your ring. I can't say what their input will be 100% accurate, especially since it's via photos... but I personally consider them experts and I trust their eye with these things. I do not have that same eye or expertise. If you want I can ask them to look at it and post the findings here or on another thread. Just post some close up of the back of the ring with the openings showing. Try to make sure it's from different angles, put the ring upside down, etc.

Also on another note, I think this should go for ALL vendors (not just Leon Mege) who claim to completely make hand fabricated rings. Them writing on a website that all the pictures on their photo gallery shouldn't be taken as assumed proof that YOUR specific ring will be. All the pictures they post COULD have all been handmade... but others that they make might not be. Them saying "fully hand made" still doesn't mean it's casting free. There is no standard regulation here. It's like 100% organic doesn't really mean that because the USDA doesn't have super strict regulations.. as long as ONE ingredient in the product is organic, the package can say "Organic" on it. A ring can be hand finished, or portions of a ring can be hand made, but that is different than having the entire ring hand forged. I think these terms might be confusing some people.

When a jeweler can put it on paper, in the work order, that it's casting free and be liable for a lawsuit if it wasn't then I'd be inclined to believe it. I don't think that this is offensive to ask either, I have spoken to other jewelers about it and they don't have a problem with it. They write down the size of stones used in melee, they write down the metal they use (14k, 18k, platinum) etc. Writing that it's handmade should not be an issue. If the issue of having a handmade ring is important to you (and for many it's not) or if you're picking a designer simply because you want a specific handmade ring, you should ask for it to be put on the work order. I think that LM's ring are still beautiful and reasonably priced. I think the only time this issue matters is if you specifically MUST have a handmade ring or if you are paying a premium for it, in that case it should be common sense to get it in writing, no?

I am not trying to offend anyone, accuse LM of anything, or stir anything up. What I love about this site is the information that's shared and the consumer advocacy approach. I think that we can avoid a lot of future problems with ANY vendor by knowing what we want/what's important to us and making sure that we communicate that information w/ them.

I don't know how I missed your great post CherryBlossom! (I had like 5 windows open and I'm at work :read: )
Yes, you make very good points. We probably all know the saying about "if you assume,..." So the less assumption and the more knowledge is, the better for us consumers.

Also, thank you for the offer to have your friend look at photos. I think I'm going to wait to ask Leon directly - and I *assume* (ha) he will be frank and honest (and I will tell him it's for my appraisal, because it is!). That way I can get a straight answer from the horses's mouth (and report back). I know Leon doesn't do appraisals, per his FAQ. I could e-mail him the question but I didn't have great success communicating effectively via email with him

My appraiser couldn't even tell definitively from looking through the microscope, although if he hasn't seen too many truly hand-forged rings maybe he doesn't have a basis for comparison (though I don't know how many he's seen). .

For the record, though, it was not in my work order that the ring be "casting-free" or "hand-forged" - yet another thing that I, a so-called educated consumer, didn't know to ask! But as Mrs. S said, whether Leon's rings are handmade has not actually come up on PS before, to my knowledge.
 
Angietaren|1296865184|2843442 said:
If your appraiser questions it, why don't you have Leon put on paper that it's casting free instead of talking to him. I think he'd be on the hook for his words then;) You could just say it's for my appraisal or whatever. Better yet, have him make an appraisal where he specifically says that.
Lovestreet- I am really looking forward to knowing what you find out. I certainly wouldnt have never thought to ask about this ! I am meeting Leon next friday about my ring design so I will def remember to ask him about whether my ring will be hand forged or not !
 
Love Street|1296866170|2843458 said:
My appraiser couldn't even tell definitively from looking through the microscope, although if he hasn't seen too many truly hand-forged rings maybe he doesn't have a basis for comparison (though I don't know how many he's seen). .

For the record, though, it was not in my work order that the ring be "casting-free" or "hand-forged" - yet another thing that I, a so-called educated consumer, didn't know to ask! But as Mrs. S said, whether Leon's rings are handmade has not actually come up on PS before, to my knowledge.

no problem. Here is some input that was explained to me: There are certain ways that metal looks at certain angles that provide clues of it's hand forged or not. It has a lot to do with waves/ripples that are created on the metal. If you're using a plate to hand make a shank. There's no way a plate of metal will be wavy. Even after you sand it down with a bur slightly, it won't turn wavy. It would be crisp, sharp. That's a sign of wax work there. Furthermore, another thing to look for is areas where spaces are created. When you hand forge a ring you're using a saw to open those holes. If those saw lines are not there it's possible evidence of casting. Casting smooths out fine details like that.

Again, I am NOT an expert. 1 jeweler has told me this and 1 organic chemistry professor who specializes/teaches courses in metal composition & work. Anyone and everyone with additional info on this matter feel free to correct and educate me. I am simply stating what was explained and shown to me.

Again, I think his rings are beautiful. I have held many of his creations in my hands and notice the delicate curves and detailed craftsmanship. I have no way of knowing if they are handmade/handforged/handfinished or not. When I look at your ring, I don't really think it matters unless it really matters to YOU. I think your ring is breathtaking! I would be hard pressed to ever take it off. The only reason that hand forged 100% matters for anyone is if that's specifically what you're looking for. I think that expert platinum metalworkers can make exceptional pieces via casting, and I've seen some horrible handmade pieces that are just gross. It has to do with the overall craftsmanship and aesthetic value. I was just honestly wondering what the worker order says, my aunts didn't mention it but she bought her ring from him a while ago. She has been wondering the same thing. So I was wondering if anyone elses work order mentioned it. I wonder if anyone knows how long ago he stopped directly working on the rings himself? I feel bad because we're just picking on him, but honestly this standard should be for all vendors... especially if it's very important for you to have a a ring that's completely hand forged . Get it in writing.

good luck with your convo w/ him, I actually think he's a nice guy and likes to put on a show. He just likes to do things his own way.
 
+1 Let us know. I would think "casting free" is more definite than even "hand forged" seems to be. If you can have him commit to that on a piece of paper somehow, then I'd be inclined to believe it. The potential of a lawsuit should bring the truth out...
 
Hospatogi|1296866766|2843467 said:
Lovestreet- I am really looking forward to knowing what you find out. I certainly wouldnt have never thought to ask about this ! I am meeting Leon next friday about my ring design so I will def remember to ask him about whether my ring will be hand forged or not !

Oh how cool you'll meet with him! Yes, I never thought to ask about this either.
I do want to stress that my appraiser was really blown away by the quality and design of the ring itself, as well as the quality of French cuts - he said it was one of the nicest rings he's seen - he actually called it a work of art - and he is on the westside in LA! So as Chris said, whatever way Leon does it, he does make a work of art.

CherryBlossom|1296867285|2843479 said:
no problem. Here is some input that was explained to me: There are certain ways that metal looks at certain angles that provide clues of it's hand forged or not. It has a lot to do with waves/ripples that are created on the metal. If you're using a plate to hand make that shank. There's no way a plate of metal will be wavy. Even after you sand it down with a bur slightly, it won't turn wavy. It would be crisp, sharp. That's a sign of wax work there. Furthermore, when you hand forge a ring you're using a saw to open those holes. If those saw lines are not there it's possible evidence of casting. Casting smooths out fine details like that..

That makes good sense. That's similar to the impression my appraiser was trying to convey, saying that the metal was wrapped around something, and then hammered, etc. so that it almost couldn't be so smooth/fluid because it is hewn. At what level is this visible? 10x mag? Naked eye?

CherryBlossom|1296867285|2843479 said:
I feel bad because we're just picking on him, but honestly this standard should be for all vendors... especially if it's very important for you to have a a ring that's completely hand forged . Get it in writing.

good luck with your convo w/ him, I actually think he's a nice guy and likes to put on a show. He just likes to do things his own way.

Yes, I feel bad too - I really hope that Leon doesn't get 150 calls on Tuesday asking if he uses wax "'cause some girl that just got a French cut ring from you said your rings aren't handmade.... " lol - he'll hate me! :oops: :| ;( :bigsmile:

I think I'll just call him and ask over the phone and let another PSer put it in writing on their work order at a later date :rodent: It's water under the bridge for me - I already have my project on my grubby little hands (which still badly need a mani).

I actually thought he was nice on the phone and was grateful he voiced his opinions because I am *not* a jewelry designer and I know I would have picked a design that was not as nice if I had a yes-man jeweler. I basically went with all of his recommendations (within my limitations of no pave and no colored stones) and I could not be happier. And he sent a very nice email in response to my "thank you, I love it" email. But I do want to know one way or the other whether he's casting free - just for my own curiosity and our collective PS benefit.
 
CherryBlossom|1296697806|2841435 said:
I asked this elsewhere but nobody seems to have an answer. Does anyone know if his rings are fully handmade?

We all know that Leon no longer makes the rings himself and that he has a bench do most of the work. What I am wondering is if the rings are completely hand fabricated or if it's done via a CAD/wax/casting. There are certain aspects of some of his rings that simply do not look handmade. I know some do partial casting and partial handmade pieces, Could anyone whose purchased items from him clarify this?

Hi CherryBlossom,

A retired jeweller, who worked for the major houses, examined my tsavorite ring at length. He said it was well-made, but that part of it was cast. Unfortunately, I wasn't present and did not show him my other rings. As for my engagement ring, I had two dealers look at it (they sell finished pieces in another country). Both agreed that the shank was cast.

I haven't been able to sit down with my appraiser, but will report back when I do.
 
Love Street|1296868800|2843503 said:
Yes, I feel bad too - I really hope that Leon doesn't get 150 calls on Tuesday asking if he uses wax "'cause some girl that just got a French cut ring from you said your rings aren't handmade.... " lol - he'll hate me! :oops: :| ;( :bigsmile:

I think I'll just call him and ask over the phone and let another PSer put it in writing on their work order at a later date :rodent: It's water under the bridge for me - I already have my project on my grubby little hands (which still badly need a mani).

Hahaha you think like me. I would be like thank God the mail came. Ring mine mine mine mine.

Sometimes I feel like the more i've learned around here the more curious I've become about these things. That in turn makes it a bit more difficult (for me anyway) to fully stand back, wear, and see the beauty of a piece because I will forever more be picking out little flaws and wanting to tweak things. I'm sure that many vendors find me to be annoying

We want these perfectly beautiful pieces (which at times counters the durability we demand - see the "are rings to thin" thread) made with the best craftsmanship, using the best products, with the best long term warranty/customer service...... all at the lowest price :loopy: :loopy: :loopy:
 
Harriet|1296870264|2843522 said:
A retired jeweller, who worked for the major houses, examined my tsavorite ring at length. He said it was well-made, but that part of it was cast. Unfortunately, I wasn't present and did not show him my other rings. As for my engagement ring, I had two dealers look at it (they sell finished pieces in another country). Both agreed that the shank was cast.

I haven't been able to sit down with my appraiser, but will report back when I do.

O,RLY?

your LM pieces? was this in the last few days? recently?
 
CherryBlossom,

I am in Tucson for the gem and mineral shows. I lent my tsavorite ring to my dealer to display in his booth. It has been there for the last two days. I just checked with him. According to the retired jeweller, the shank is cast. Another expert (I don't know who, as I wasn't there) looked at it today. He too said that the shank was cast. In addition, there are casting holes at the base of one of the prongs.
 
Harriet|1296871453|2843542 said:
CherryBlossom,

I am in Tucson for the gem and mineral shows. I lent my tsavorite ring to my dealer to display in his booth. It has been there for the last two days. I just checked with him. According to the retired jeweller, the shank is cast. Another expert (I don't know who, as I wasn't there) looked at it today. He too said that the shank was cast. In addition, there are casting holes at the base of one of the prongs.

wow. ok. that's all I got. I'm really glad I asked about it, because my aunt has been wondering the same exact thing and keeps bringing it up. Please keep us updated, she does not use the computer so I want to tell her what's going on.
 
I'll be very interested to hear what Leon says. I can see the idea of casting a shank and then handmaking the basket, maybe. I will say that it really doesn't matter to me how he did it. I chose the ring because I liked it. And it didn't cost more than my daughter's similar Vatche ring, so I am not complaining about overpaying by any means.
 
Chris-at-ERD|1296862357|2843399 said:
Love Street|1296859658|2843338 said:
OK just to play devil's advocate, my appraiser was discussing how "cast" can also be that the jeweler makes a custom wax by hand, and then creates a mold from this wax, which is then filled with molten metal. So a cast ring wouldn't necessarily be a stock ring - it can still be custom (as with the CAD/casts custom work we see from other vendors here), but there would be a wax and a mold involved.

So I'm curious about whether any part of Leon's process involves a custom wax mold, or whether it is raw pieces of metal built from the ground up and soldered together like Angietaren's.


Hi Lovestreet,

I would like to add a few realities to the art of ring making,so to speak, from my expeirence @ Dvatche and believe will hold true.

There are 4 ways to fabricate jewelry:

1- CAD technology
2- Hand Wax models
3-Silver hand fabricated models
4- Fabricating directly from choice of metal- ex. Platinum ( Hardest process PERIOD. )

Obviously the first 3 require Molds and CAST etc. but does not mean for example....a simple 4 prong solitaire shank ( cast ) could be hand made or done by hand such as a basket and a plate that is hand cut for the base and pulled wire prongs that are tacked on by hand for perfect fit...

Which ever or how ever Leon creates his amazing and beautiful designs can be explained only by him and I for one will always praise his work, so with that said Leon may be alot of different things to alot of differnt people but he is an artist and perfectionist no doubt...

Lots of PS vendors have the ability for Custom but this area falls under choice and personality of the buyer.

Hope this helps clarify some questions.
+1 to Chris' excellent and informative post.
I also have a lot of respect for Leon- say what you will about his manner, but he has a great eye, and is responsible for very beautiful work.

One other point- there is another method of fabrication Chris forgot to mention- Die Struck.
This is a common method of fabricating shanks and other parts.
It's prohibitive as the cost of the dies used is very high- but the resultant parts are extremely high quality- for example porosity ( microscopic or larger bubbles in metal when it is melted and poured) is virtually non existent in die struck parts
 
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