Leo vs Gia triple ex

[luvnlife]

Hello,

I have been trying to understand /compare why the Leo diamonds sparkle so much and if in fact they sparkle more than a GIA triple ex with a table of 58/34/40.0/60 depth. Any ideas? Are the Leo's better?

 

[luvnlife]

EDIT ON PREVIOUS POST...meant to say: 40.8 pavilion

 

[denverappraiser]

Better is largely a matter of taste but the Leos have a different facet pattern. Some people like them and some don’t. The physics of the angles are the same and, unfortunately, most of the Leo’s I’ve seen don’t come with the exactly the data you’re providing with your proposed alternative. Leos are NOT all the same for exactly the same reason that modern round brilliants are not all the same. How to choose between them is what the retailer is supposed to help you with and they've presented you with a false delema.

Here’s an analogy. Look at a mirror. The amount of light return you see has to do with the size of the mirror, the lighting, your eyesight, cleaning on the glass, etc. It is what it is. Now break the mirror. The light coming back is still the same but the look is quite different. It is what it is. Now arrange the pieces in some attractive pattern. Again, you’ve changed the look but the total amount of light coming back is still the same. Is it ‘better’ to have a lot of little pieces or a few big ones? There’s no correct answer to this. It’s about what you like. The light return has to do with those angles and they haven’t supplied them. That doesn’t make them wrong, but it makes the comparison that they’re asking you to do completely unfair.

 

[luvnlife]

Thank you Denverappraiser for your indepth reply, much appreciated!! I am in the process of getting rid of a Gia xxx steep/deep 35.5. ,41.2 58%. 62.3, and acquiring a Gia xxx 34 crown, 40.8 p and 60% depth with 58 % table.

A friend of mine knows this --- she has the 1ct Leo diamond. It is very sparkly! BUT..... I think that even my soon-to-be-gone steep deep was very bright, but seemed to lack in fire, I guess it's called ( colors shooting out?). She also seemed to imply that hers was much more sparkly. I don't know about that though.

So here's the question, I compared my I color, 2.3 ct s/d to my new soon to be 2.3 ct G colored better angled stone and ideal scope was much better on the 40.8 p (new stone) and seemed slightly brighter, and looked a tad larger even though basically same spread. BUT, it was really hard to see if there was any more fire on this new stone., and I am really nervous because I am really anticipating a BETTER performer, since these new angles score so well on the HCA and the better idealscope image i saw through my IS, but since there are SO MANY various reasons to have a bad performer I am really second guessing my new purchase that I have not received yet.

Also, my friends who don't know the girl with the Leo diamond -- when told I might upgrade my stone said my stone was the most sparkly diamond they had ever seen and why would i do that, even though I don't think it had a lot of fire ( colored sparkle) but it did have a lot of white flash.

Does the size indicate differences in sparkle?

"Leo" girl said my new stone can't be any worse

I never thought my s/d was bad, but because I found this site and the HCA I am going crazy. So now I'm praying that my new stone with better ?, different angles is great compared to the s/d. Thank so very much for your time!!!!!

 

[luvnlife]

And also adding that hopefully if my new angles are better than my previous stone , even though they look different than the Leo -- which by the way I like the way mine looks better, should perform as well? I hope!

 

[WinkHPD]

And also adding that hopefully if my new angles are better than my previous stone , even though they look different than the Leo -- which by the way I like the way mine looks better, should perform as well? I hope!

I do not want to address the difference between a Leo and a well cut diamond, but I do want to share part of the reason why you may like the appearance of certain diamonds and cuts of diamonds over another. You have stated that you want to see more "fire" or colored light.

In the picture immediately below, you will see a dispersion chart from the American Gem Society which is actually a map of where the dispersion in Tolkowsky cut on the left and a poorly cut diamond on the right is possible to be displayed. The min max spread is in mm
at the average viewing distance. To interpret the chart, basically you are going to see dispersion in the bright yellow and orange areas, not much, if any, in the reddish orange area and none in the brown and gray areas.



Why is this important you ask? Because in order for your eye to perceive "fire" or dispersion, the wave of light as seen below must be wider when it reaches the pupil of the eye than the pupil. If not, the entire wave will enter the eye and what you will see will be perceived as white light.



And why is this important in the appearance of the two styles of stones you ask?

As Neil stated, the amount of light coming from one stone may well be the same as that coming from another, but if one of the stones has larger flashes of light, then you are more likely to be able to perceive fire provided that the light coming from those flashes is from an area of the stone where the light is likely to be dispersed into a fan of colors, such as seen in the prism above.

Add to this the complications of things like ambient light, you will see more dispersion in a brightly lit environment than a dimly lit one because the pupil of your eye will be smaller in bright light. Also, the angle of the light that is striking your diamond will affect the amount of dispersion seen and that is an entirely different and long discussion as well.

There is more information about dispersion as well as a video in this Pricescope Journal article first published in June of 2009:

http://www.pricescope.com/journal/camera_may_not_lie_it_tells_different_truths

Wink

 

[luvnlife]

Thank you wink! But do you think my new stone will be better than my old stone? And doesnt crown % have something to do with fire as well, or is it entirely what you have shown?

 

[WinkHPD]

Thank you wink! But do you think my new stone will be better than my old stone? And doesnt crown % have something to do with fire as well, or is it entirely what you have shown?

I can not say if your new will be better than your old. Whether it might be better or not for me will not matter, it matters whether or not it is better for you.

Crown angle PAIRED with pavilion angle has everything to do with light return, and dispersion and the price of tea in China and these must be taken in consideration with table diameter and how precisely the stone was cut (Are the angles close to one another on the pavilion or are they an average of a mishmash of angles?) Also, the crown % is going to be partially decided by the crown angles and how much of the diamond was left above the girdle when the diamond was sawn. There are just so many things that make up the light return on any single diamond that it is very difficult to break it down to a few angles and percentages, although they can give us a general idea.

However, none of these things can I see from here. It would be best if you can arrange to see the two stones side by side and then allow YOUR eyes to tell you which you like better, just as you have with the Leo and the round brilliant.

No matter what any one tells you, it is okay for your eyes to like what they like.

Wink

 

[luvnlife]

I am in the process of getting rid of:

a Gia xxx steep/deep 35.5. 41.2 pavilion , 58%table and 62.3 depth.

and acquiring:

a Gia xxx 34 crown, 40.8 p and 60% depth with 58 % table. ---what do you think will perform better?

 

[distracts]

Wink, thanks for your explanation! I find the science behind the sparkles to be really fun to learn.

 

[TC1987]

I'm not sure if this is still of any use, because it's dated 2004. But, here's this review of a Leo:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/review-of-a-leo-cut.17770/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/review-of-a-leo-cut.17770/[/URL]

 

[luvnlife]

Great info!!! Thanks for the info. I really like the way the GIA xxx look compared to the Leo. Even though my friend would differ, I think the steep deep GIA xxx I had was BRIGHTER BY FAR especially from overhead view.

 

[luvnlife]

Thank you som much TC1987!!

Thank you as well, wegotthemoney!!

Very interesting for sure and really appreciate the info!!

 

[luvnlife]

Wink, thank you so much for that. I really enjoyed the attached article and pics!! Very helpful!!