Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Leakage vs Azimuth misalignment in Ideal Scope image

A

Athena10X

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
269
Hello all,

As I’m trying to educate myself on the minor facets and finer implications of cut, I’m curious to know the difference in ideal scope images of diamonds that indicate true light leakage vs. possible azimuth misalignment (as I may have been misinterpreting a few). There are older discussions on this forum that explore this very topic of azimuth and yaw, but I’m interested from a layperson’s perspective in terms of analyzing ideal scope, or even ASET images (as I do not have access to fancy and expensive tech). Is there a way to interpret the possible azimuth angles for pavilion and crown facets from the degree of light red vs dark red areas as one can sort of gauge the degree of painting and/or digging from an ASET? Also, from what I’ve read, the Helium report can provide azimuth angle readings, but can the latest Sarine/Diamension Axiom? Hoping a few experts can chime in and hopefully I’m not taking everyone down a rabbit hole. Thanks!
 

Sponsored By:


Get My Free Quote

Related topics:

Karl_K

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,741
IS will show some signs of extremes for example closing of the leakage dots at the end of the stars is an indication of a large amount of painting or digging but could also be tilt.
So you have to look at the arrow shafts they will be longer on the side of tilt.
Then you look between the arrows are they all the same? The wide ranging pavilion stones with twisted lowers will show a large difference in 1 or more of the areas between the arrows.
It has to be fairly extreme to show up on IS.
 
Karl_K

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,741
Athena10X said:
This was perfect! I have a new appreciation for the H&A viewer. However, is it possible to see yaw/azimuth misalignment in an ideal scope image if a H&A image is not available? Would it show up as lighter red areas? Thank you again.
Click to expand...
ASET doesn't have the resolution for stuff like that, it covers hundreds if not thousands of virtual facets with one blob of color.
 
A

Athena10X

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
269
Karl_K said:
ASET doesn't have the resolution for stuff like that, it covers hundreds if not thousands of virtual facets with one blob of color.
Click to expand...

Got it. I’ll be looking at H&A photos more critically now that I’m armed with this information.
 
kmoro

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,081
Karl_K said:
Have you seen this:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/facet-yaw.21857/
Click to expand...

Wow! I’m not sure what made me read this thread, but I’m glad I did. I read that too and then followed the links to the *gasp* glossary that I had no idea existed (lol), and read about symmetry and H&A. I think I learned a few things.

I do have a question that goes back to the OP’s original question: That link to the facet yaw thread is from 2004. Wouldn’t scanning tech and calc software have advanced phenomenally since then? Are they not able to provide azimuth angle readings? .... and I’m just a layperson, a relatively new consumer, so please forgive me - I may have missed the point entirely .... I think I fell down a rabbit hole ... have a headache now lol
 
Karl_K

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,741
kmoro said:
I do have a question that goes back to the OP’s original question: That link to the facet yaw thread is from 2004. Wouldn’t scanning tech and calc software have advanced phenomenally since then? Are they not able to provide azimuth angle readings?
Click to expand...
I dont recall when Helium came out but it was a large step forward in resolution of small changes but the largest producer sarin has basically doubled the base resolution in that time.
However a lot of potential resolution has been traded for speed.
There is a large trade off between scanning speed and resolution with any optical scanner.
The overall result is they can catch some but not all.
But the best way to see it is still to create a virtual image and look at it.
 
Karl_K

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,741
From 2005 both scanners were calibrated and ran by an experienced operator.
An educated guess would put the latest sarin close to helium from back then.
scannercomp.jpg
 
S

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,631
kmoro said:
Wow! I’m not sure what made me read this thread, but I’m glad I did. I read that too and then followed the links to the *gasp* glossary that I had no idea existed (lol), and read about symmetry and H&A. I think I learned a few things.

I do have a question that goes back to the OP’s original question: That link to the facet yaw thread is from 2004. Wouldn’t scanning tech and calc software have advanced phenomenally since then? Are they not able to provide azimuth angle readings? .... and I’m just a layperson, a relatively new consumer, so please forgive me - I may have missed the point entirely .... I think I fell down a rabbit hole ... have a headache now lol
Click to expand...

It were many improvements in 3D model accuracy since 2004.
Current Helium models are much more accurate than its were in 2004.
Main improvement in shadow scan for RBC and fancy cuts had been done between 2007 and 2015.
Since 2018 we have been started sales of scanners with combination shadow and reflect scans .
You could find the video about Reflect scan technology here

http://www.lexus-com.com/gb-hpopr.html
 
Last edited:
A

Athena10X

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
269
Serg said:
It were many improvements in 3D model accuracy since 2004.
Current Helium models are much more accurate than its were in 2004.
Main improvement in shadow scan for RBC and fancy cuts had been done between 2007 and 2015.
Since 2018 we have been started sales of scanners with combination shadow and reflect scans .
You could find the video about Reflect scan technology here

http://www.lexus-com.com/gb-hpopr.html
Click to expand...


@Serg, does your website provide a listing of diamond vendors/retailers, jewelers, and/or appraisers that have access to your technology. I would love to see it in action locally as it’s very fascinating and I like geeking out on tech. Thanks!
 
S

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,631
Athena10X said:
@Serg, does your website provide a listing of diamond vendors/retailers, jewelers, and/or appraisers that have access to your technology. I would love to see it in action locally as it’s very fascinating and I like geeking out on tech. Thanks!
Click to expand...

You could find the list of Helium clients in the end of page http://www.lexus-com.com/gb-hpo.html
Few of them sold Helium scanners had been bought more than 10 years ago.
 
blueMA

blueMA

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
1,257
@Athena10X Why does it not surprise me at all to see you going down this rabbit hole? :lol:
How are you enjoying your FIC? Are you noticing much difference from your CBI?
 
blueMA

blueMA

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
1,257
@Serg I wanted to ask you - I know you have a soft spot for the stone with higher pavilion angles (as I do) and wonder why after all these years you still prefer them over the stones with 40.6 with high crown (as often preferred on PS) even with all your exposures?
 
A

Athena10X

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
269
blueMA said:
@Athena10X Why does it not surprise me at all to see you going down this rabbit hole? :lol:
How are you enjoying your FIC? Are you noticing much difference from your CBI?
Click to expand...

I have yet to see it in person. Still waiting for insurance to send funds to Jonathan. Then will work on CAD for custom setting. Will post photos/glamour shots once have in possession.
 
blueMA

blueMA

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
1,257
Athena10X said:
I have yet to see it in person. Still waiting for insurance to send funds to Jonathan. Then will work on CAD for custom setting. Will post photos/glamour shots once have in possession.
Click to expand...
Great! Can't wait.
 
A

Athena10X

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
269
I guess I’m asking a question I posted in another thread, but for those who may be reading this one and not the other, if I have a GIA graded diamond and since the GIA may be using the Helium tech to grade symmetry, can my vendor ask GIA for a copy of the Helium report?
 
E

EncikG

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
105
EncikG said:
Skimming through, it appears that 80-90% of your clients are from India. Wonder what that implies...
Click to expand...

Would it also be right to imply that a lot of superideal cut vendors source their diamonds from there, and India does have good cutters or cutting houses ..
 
Karl_K

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,741
Athena10X said:
I guess I’m asking a question I posted in another thread, but for those who may be reading this one and not the other, if I have a GIA graded diamond and since the GIA may be using the Helium tech to grade symmetry, can my vendor ask GIA for a copy of the Helium report?
Click to expand...
No, as far as I know they will not release it. The data is for internal use only.
 
S

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,631
blueMA said:
@Serg I wanted to ask you - I know you have a soft spot for the stone with higher pavilion angles (as I do) and wonder why after all these years you still prefer them over the stones with 40.6 with high crown (as often preferred on PS) even with all your exposures?
Click to expand...

@blueMA
Are asking about Pavilion 41.2 Crown 33?
like https://cutwise.com/diamond/29616 ?
What exact proportions do you use ?
 
Last edited:
yssie

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
27,281
EncikG said:
Skimming through, it appears that 80-90% of your clients are from India. Wonder what that implies...
Click to expand...

EncikG said:
Would it also be right to imply that a lot of superideal cut vendors source their diamonds from there, and India does have good cutters or cutting houses ..
Click to expand...

What, precisely, is the point you are trying to make? I’m coming up with a few possibilities and appreciate none of them; I would be happy to be incorrect.
 
E

EncikG

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
105
I wasn’t making any point.
Just out to learn more. I’ve never known much about scanning technology and was wondering if there were any jewellers in my vicinity that is a client. As Serg, indicated a list, i was just surprised there were mostly in India

If there was going to be apology, it would only be to the thread starter if they felt I had hijacked the thread in any way.
 
A

Athena10X

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
269
Serg said:
Or Diamonds like Pav 41.2 Cr34.5 ?
see similar diamonds Pav 41.1 Cr34.8
https://cutwise.com/diamond/25549


and compare
https://cutwise.com/compare/diamond-colorless?id[]=25549&id[]=26035
Click to expand...

First time I’ve come across the cutwise website. I like the optical symmetry filter; wish more vendors offered this option. Is this site specifically for vendors/retailers to source pre-graded diamonds from various cutting houses that use Octonus technology? Trying to figure out how a consumer could use this website as a resource. Thanks!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top