Home Lancet retracts study linking autism to vaccines

[RockHugger]

Its amazing so many people find this type of thing funny. All I have to say is god forbid you EVER have a child who is damaged by a vaccine or becomes autistic only days after recieving one. God forbid. It actually makes me physically sick to see people laugh at the topic. How dare any of you do that. All I have to say about that, is karma is one crazy *itch, and I can see here alot of life lessons need to be learned. I just hope your children wont be the ones teaching you those lessons. The women at JM are a wealth of links to studies and information regarding vaccines. MOST of them parents of children who are injured. How dare anyone laugh at them.

All I ever advocate is researching before you vaccinate, and know who funded that research. If a cigarette company funded a study annd the study said smoking is safe, would you believe it? Its the same with vaccines. It is a business plain and simple. Being a sheep following the heard is a very dangerous way to live.

 

[swimmer]

Maisie, Thank you for such a thoughtful and really insightful post. Hugs to you and James.

RH, I am sorry to come across as dismissive, I had really hoped that the forum you suggested for me to check out would have any credible research. I am a researcher and an educator and require facts over feelings when making decisions for my own child. The very best to you and your children.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 2/4/2010 6:34:38 PM
Author: RockHugger

I just hope your children wont be the ones teaching you those lessons.

Being a sheep following the heard is a very dangerous way to live.

For someone suggesting that we are all close minded you are very close minded yourself.

All I can say is that I totally agree with the sentiments you expressed above.

It is very dangerous to listen to a bunch of people without proof of what they are talking about. So I honestly suggest that you go back and look at the link you provided and backtrack some of the claims those women are making. Not one provides evidence that is credible. Not one.

And I sincerely hope that your children or the children of those you love will not be the one teaching you a lesson about how vaccines can prevent serious illness and death.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Swimmer are you saying I''m a teenager who is too inarticulate to ask you out via text? LOL!

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 2/4/2010 6:34:38 PM
Author: RockHugger
Its amazing so many people find this type of thing funny. All I have to say is god forbid you EVER have a child who is damaged by a vaccine or becomes autistic only days after recieving one. God forbid. It actually makes me physically sick to see people laugh at the topic. How dare any of you do that. All I have to say about that, is karma is one crazy *itch, and I can see here alot of life lessons need to be learned. I just hope your children wont be the ones teaching you those lessons. The women at JM are a wealth of links to studies and information regarding vaccines. MOST of them parents of children who are injured. How dare anyone laugh at them.


All I ever advocate is researching before you vaccinate, and know who funded that research. If a cigarette company funded a study annd the study said smoking is safe, would you believe it? Its the same with vaccines. It is a business plain and simple. Being a sheep following the heard is a very dangerous way to live.

I''m sorry, but I will ALWAYS stand by my belief that children don''t "become" autistic or "get" autism. People are born with it. And I also feel the same way Swimmer does. I have trouble taking people seriously when they lack basic spelling and grammar skills. And that opinion is extended not only to people on other sites, but this site as well. Poor grammar does not help one''s credibility when debating scientific or otherwise academic topics.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 2/4/2010 6:39:15 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 2/4/2010 6:34:38 PM
Author: RockHugger

I just hope your children wont be the ones teaching you those lessons.

Being a sheep following the heard is a very dangerous way to live.

For someone suggesting that we are all close minded you are very close minded yourself.

All I can say is that I totally agree with the sentiments you expressed above.

It is very dangerous to listen to a bunch of people without proof of what they are talking about. So I honestly suggest that you go back and look at the link you provided and backtrack some of the claims those women are making. Not one provides evidence that is credible. Not one.

And I sincerely hope that your children or the children of those you love will not be the one teaching you a lesson about how vaccines can prevent serious illness and death.

Neat, Rocinante is getting tired. Take him to the stable now. You've tilted far beyond the call of duty.

Sadly for the children, and perhaps even quite a few adults (but who really cares about adults - they aren't cute and cuddly and don't usually inspire rabid irrationality on the quite the same scale) are going to have to experience the power of these diseases that so many researchers and doctors spent lifetimes of effort and devotion to prevent. We really don't learn much from history do we? And we're so primed and prone to slip back into medieval thinking. Too much complexity and ambiguity, and we're ready to be given a simple answer - an answer that doesn't require any effort on our part. Change is just damn scary....

In between the last go round and this one about vaccines here on PS, I stumbled upon this book. I found the title so evocative of the situation I bought it. It's hardly the only recent (and some not so recent) book that has taken alarmed notice of this trend in America, once a land of rationality....

Denialism: How Irrational Thinking Hinders Scientific Progress, Harms the Planet, and Threatens Our Lives

The cover text:

In Denialism, New Yorker staff writer Michael Specter reveals that Americans have come to mistrust institutions and especially the institution of science more today than ever before. For centuries, the general view had been that science is neither good nor bad-that it merely supplies information and that new information is always beneficial. Now, science is viewed as a political constituency that isn't always in our best interest. We live in a world where the leaders of African nations prefer to let their citizens starve to death rather than import genetically modified grains. Childhood vaccines have proven to be the most effective public health measure in history, yet people march on Washington to protest their use. In the United States a growing series of studies show that dietary supplements and "natural" cures have almost no value, and often cause harm. We still spend billions of dollars on them. In hundreds of the best universities in the world, laboratories are anonymous, unmarked, and surrounded by platoons of security guards-such is the opposition to any research that includes experiments with animals. And pharmaceutical companies that just forty years ago were perhaps the most visible symbol of our remarkable advance against disease have increasingly been seen as callous corporations propelled solely by avarice and greed.

As Michael Specter sees it, this amounts to a war against progress. The issues may be complex but the choices are not: Are we going to continue to embrace new technologies, along with acknowledging their limitations and threats, or are we ready to slink back into an era of magical thinking? In Denialism, Specter makes an argument for a new Enlightenment, the revival of an approach to the physical world that was stunningly effective for hundreds of years: What can be understood and reliably repeated by experiment is what nature regarded as true. Now, at the time of mankind's greatest scientific advances-and our greatest need for them-that deal must be renewed.

And a review in the NYTimes.

 

[RockHugger]

neat freak- Actually the lesson I was thinking of is called human empathy. Not so much about vaccines.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

RH I do empathize with your situation, I'm so sorry your daughter is faced with the challenges she has. No one would wish that on a child EVER. Please understand that regardless of my views and opinions and how they might differ from yours, I do wish you and your family happiness and health. Those feelings have NOTHING to do with my feelings about vaccinating my children, one of which I'm carrying right now.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 2/4/2010 7:02:36 PM
Author: RockHugger
neat freak- Actually the lesson I was thinking of is called human empathy. Not so much about vaccines.

Which I have. Which is why my children are vaccinated to lower the risk of spreading disease to those in the population who cannot be vaccinated.

 

[Porridge]

Date: 2/4/2010 6:34:38 PM
Author: RockHugger
All I have to say is god forbid you EVER have a child who is damaged by a vaccine or becomes autistic only days after recieving one. God forbid. It actually makes me physically sick to see people laugh at the topic. How dare any of you do that. All I have to say about that, is karma is one crazy *itch, and I can see here alot of life lessons need to be learned. I just hope your children wont be the ones teaching you those lessons. The women at JM are a wealth of links to studies and information regarding vaccines. MOST of them parents of children who are injured.

You have belittled many here the same way, with your comments about not being afraid of diseases and measles not being so bad. We have learned life lessons. Just as you have. We realise, many of us first hand, the devastation these diseases can cause. These preventable diseases. God forbid you have to experience that.

I think it's great that there is an argument here. It is important to ask questions and research. I understand you are angry your child has autism, and of course you will looks for answers. Understand that there are many whose babies died from measles, whose children are deaf from mumps, that feel the same way. Maybe you are not afraid of diseases. The vulnerable are. Babies too young to be protected, cancer patients with weak immune systems, those without access to treatment. They are terrified of them. Rightly so.

I don't think you are crazy, but try to understand that when it comes to such matters, most of us are used to arguments based on FACTS, not merely opinions. All we are asking for is one reliable source to back it up. One. SURELY you have saved just one article, reference, study, anything? That forum is very nice, but I've been looking for nearly half an hour now and I have yet to find one thing of substance. I'm losing patience, we all have lives as busy as yours. Can you please just post one link?

I am also interested to hear your opinion on the (long winded! sorry!) question I posted earlier. I'll post it again here:

Date: 2/4/2010 11:49:16 AM
Author: Porridge
I'm curious to read the credible sources behind your opinions too RH. Could you please point us in the direction? Are they available on PubMed?


I'm also wondering about this money trail. I understand why you would be concerned about that of course - I think you live in America is that correct? So medicine is private, people pay the doctor, the doctor pays the drug company, everybody involved gains. Sick people mean big money for drug companies.


Consider us here in Europe. A population over twice the size of America, a very large and influential government. Medicine here in the majority of countries is free to the public. Vaccines are provided by the government. Free. It is financially beneficial to have the population as healthy as possible, because medicine and treatment costs the government. Drug companies are very strictly regulated. Why in the world would the governments be funding companies that were causing damage to health? It wouldn't make financial sense.

 

[Porridge]

Date: 2/4/2010 7:00:32 PM
Author: ksinger
Sadly for the children, and perhaps even quite a few adults (but who really cares about adults - they aren''t cute and cuddly and don''t usually inspire rabid irrationality on the quite the same scale) are going to have to experience the power of these diseases that so many researchers and doctors spent lifetimes of effort and devotion to prevent. We really don''t learn much from history do we? And we''re so primed and prone to slip back into medieval thinking. Too much complexity and ambiguity, and we''re ready to be given a simple answer - an answer that doesn''t require any effort on our part. Change is just damn scary...

The crux of it. How easily and quickly we forget. How strong the primal instinct to distrust what we don''t understand.

We can only hope reason will prevail before it comes to that.

 

[Laila619]

I am appalled at the condescending and patronizing way some of you are treating RockHugger. Have you no compassion? There are plenty of topics and posters on PS at which to laugh and roll your eyes, but this really isn''t one of them.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Laila, everyone is entitled to post their opinion, regardless of the tone in which it''s perceived.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/4/2010 8:09:52 PM
Author: Laila619
I am appalled at the condescending and patronizing way some of you are treating RockHugger. Have you no compassion? There are plenty of topics and posters on PS at which to laugh and roll your eyes, but this really isn''t one of them.

First of all, I don''t think there isn''t a mother here who doesn''t feel for rockhugger. But this is a thread about a study being retracted. This is a thread about research with some substance.

If someone goes on about how vacs cause autism, thereby DISCOURAGING people from getting their children vaccinated from diseases which can be dangerous, and then posts a link to her back up which is just a forum of every day women, you''re going to get slammed, sorry!

RH, I''ve stayed away from this thread because I DO feel for you. Anyone who is a mother could not help but feel for you. But I AM flabbergasted that with everything you are saying your backup is a forum for just mommies. I''m not knocking a forum for moms, btw...I learn a lot here and believe you can learn a lot from a forum. But linking to the studies you have found ITSELF vs a forum where people are obviously biased in one direction is not exactly scientific.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 2/4/2010 8:12:57 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Laila, everyone is entitled to post their opinion, regardless of the tone in which it''s perceived.

Obviously. However, the opinions certainly could be phrased in a less condescending way, given that it''s a very sensitive and personal topic to RockHugger. People are more likely to listen when they''re not being talked down to.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Sadly, the Surgeon General himself could publicly denounce the alleged connection between vaccines and Autism and she''d still believe it was a ploy for the big pharmas to make money.

 

[blingmemore]

I just wanted to share my BFF's experience with Asperger's Syndrome:

My BFF's son has recently been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. His paediatrition explained to my BFF that Asperger's may be caused by the mother having had a stressful pregnancy and it is a chemical that the mothers body releases.

Whilst my BFF was pregnant her sister went on a holiday to Hawaii (October). Whilst there she experienced headaches to the point where she was vomiting all day and in turn was diagnosed with a brain tumour. My BFF flew over to Hawaii to see her sister as she was too unwell to fly home, no-one wanted her on their flight. They finally let her fly home after being stuck in Hawaii for 3 months. My BFF sister passed away in the February aged 32 and my BFF delivered her son in the April.

My BFF has vaccinated both her children and has never, ever blamed vaccinations for her son's condition. In her words "it's just one of those things that happens".

Maybe the stressful pregnancy was just coincidental?? Who knows!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 2/4/2010 8:22:03 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 2/4/2010 8:12:57 PM

Author: Hudson_Hawk

Laila, everyone is entitled to post their opinion, regardless of the tone in which it's perceived.

Obviously. However, the opinions certainly could be phrased in a less condescending way, given that it's a very sensitive and personal topic to RockHugger. People are more likely to listen when they're not being talked down to.

Well I'd say RockHugger pretty much wishing for other women's children to get autism isn't particularly nice, either. (What a great "life lesson"!) Why aren't you defending all of us?

I guess it's easy to defend RockHugger since it's her against all of us. The thing is, we're actually making sense, and we actually have EVIDENCE to back up our claims.

And for the record, it's kind of hard to tell someone that their off the wall claims and complete lack of evidence make it impossible to take them seriously without sounding condescending.

 

[swimmer]

If you were lost and needed to find due north, would you follow the woman who had a compass (assuming that all electromagnetic forces are normal)? Or would you follow the woman who "has a good feeling" about where the car is?

Laila, I find it wildly condescending to tell women (like NF, Labrat, C-Tek, BigT, HH, etc) who have clearly identified their professional and educational backgrounds, to "open their eyes." They seem to have incredibly open eyes and minds. I was pretty excited to get the chance to read some real research on the risks of vaccination, but what I found on that blog was quoting of actresses as medical "facts" and women searching desperately for a reason why their children became ill. It was tremendously sad to read, but I think of them searching for this causality and hope that they stop pointing fingers and start instead to do early intervention with their children to help them learn the skills to deal with this terrible condition.

KSinger, as always excellent post, I just ILL''d that book.

HH, you can text me anytime baby!

 

[RockHugger]

Date: 2/4/2010 8:55:16 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/4/2010 8:22:03 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 2/4/2010 8:12:57 PM

Author: Hudson_Hawk

Laila, everyone is entitled to post their opinion, regardless of the tone in which it's perceived.

Obviously. However, the opinions certainly could be phrased in a less condescending way, given that it's a very sensitive and personal topic to RockHugger. People are more likely to listen when they're not being talked down to.

Well I'd say RockHugger pretty much wishing for other women's children to get autism isn't particularly nice, either. (What a great 'life lesson'!) Why aren't you defending all of us?

I guess it's easy to defend RockHugger since it's her against all of us. The thing is, we're actually making sense, and we actually have EVIDENCE to back up our claims.

And for the record, it's kind of hard to tell someone that their off the wall claims and complete lack of evidence make it impossible to take them seriously without sounding condescending.

What cold dark hole did you pull that from? I said GOD FORBID your child is damaged from a vaccine. God forbid is saying I hope they dont! You know why I say this? Because the world has a way of opening peoples eyes. When I was a kid, I made fun of a boy with a disability in school. This kid had a crush on me and I was very mean to him. I used the R word, and rolled my eyes at those with disabilities.

I believe Chyanne was sent to me to open my eyes because of how I was. And she has and I look back and feel terrible. There is always a life lesson in store for people who treat others poorly. The way some of you view those who have been vaccine damaged is just...there is no words. How these peoples lives changed within a few days is NOT something to laugh or joke about. It isnt a couple hundred radical moms...its hundreds of THOUSANDS who KNOW the link.

I sent you to that link because there are links within the page to go to, not the page itself (like I said). But I think you know that, but just need something to bash.

I guess it is something that cant be understood inless you go through it and watch your child slip into autism. Wich I hope to god none of you have to.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/4/2010 9:29:25 PM
Author: RockHugger
What cold dark hole did you pull that from? I said GOD FORBID your child is damaged from a vaccine. God forbid is saying I hope they dont! You know why I say this? Because the world has a way of opening peoples eyes. When I was a kid, I made fun of a boy with a disability in school. This kid had a crush on me and I was very mean to him. I used the R word, and rolled my eyes at those with disabilities.

I believe Chyanne was sent to me to open my eyes because of how I was. And she has and I look back and feel terrible. There is always a life lesson in store for people who treat others poorly. The way some of you view those who have been vaccine damaged is just...there is no words. How these peoples lives changed within a few days is NOT something to laugh or joke about. It isnt a couple hundred radical moms...its hundreds of THOUSANDS who KNOW the link.

I sent you to that link because there are links within the page to go to, not the page itself (like I said). But I think you know that, but just need something to bash.

I guess it is something that cant be understood inless you go through it and watch your child slip into autism. Wich I hope to god none of you have to.

Ok. Go back to your forum, and pull up those links to the scientific studies that are posted within those links and post them here. You claim to KNOW these as blatant facts. GIVE US YOUR SOURCES.

That''s all anyone here is asking for.

No one has belittled any child with disabilities, or any parent with a disabled child as far as I''ve seen in this thread. I have no idea where you are getting that.

 

[meresal]

Date: 2/4/2010 9:29:25 PM
Author: RockHugger
What cold dark hole did you pull that from? I said GOD FORBID your child is damaged from a vaccine. God forbid is saying I hope they dont! You know why I say this? Because the world has a way of opening peoples eyes. When I was a kid, I made fun of a boy with a disability in school. This kid had a crush on me and I was very mean to him. I used the R word, and rolled my eyes at those with disabilities.

I believe Chyanne was sent to me to open my eyes because of how I was. And she has and I look back and feel terrible. There is always a life lesson in store for people who treat others poorly. The way some of you view those who have been vaccine damaged is just...there is no words. How these peoples lives changed within a few days is NOT something to laugh or joke about. It isnt a couple hundred radical moms...its hundreds of THOUSANDS who KNOW the link.

I sent you to that link because there are links within the page to go to, not the page itself (like I said). But I think you know that, but just need something to bash.

I guess it is something that cant be understood inless you go through it and watch your child slip into autism. Wich I hope to god none of you have to.

Just out of curiosity... what would be your arguement be, to a mother of an Autistic child who does not blame vaccination?

ETA: Do they get a pass in your eyes, becuase they are able to feel the adequate compassion for your situation? No one here laughing or joking about sick children. People posting on this thread are just asking for substance other than emotion or what you and other mother's believe to be true.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 2/4/2010 9:29:25 PM
Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/4/2010 8:55:16 PM

Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/4/2010 8:22:03 PM

Author: Laila619

Date: 2/4/2010 8:12:57 PM

Author: Hudson_Hawk

Laila, everyone is entitled to post their opinion, regardless of the tone in which it''s perceived.

Obviously. However, the opinions certainly could be phrased in a less condescending way, given that it''s a very sensitive and personal topic to RockHugger. People are more likely to listen when they''re not being talked down to.

Well I''d say RockHugger pretty much wishing for other women''s children to get autism isn''t particularly nice, either. (What a great ''life lesson''!) Why aren''t you defending all of us?

I guess it''s easy to defend RockHugger since it''s her against all of us. The thing is, we''re actually making sense, and we actually have EVIDENCE to back up our claims.

And for the record, it''s kind of hard to tell someone that their off the wall claims and complete lack of evidence make it impossible to take them seriously without sounding condescending.

What cold dark hole did you pull that from? I said GOD FORBID your child is damaged from a vaccine. God forbid is saying I hope they dont! You know why I say this? Because the world has a way of opening peoples eyes. When I was a kid, I made fun of a boy with a disability in school. This kid had a crush on me and I was very mean to him. I used the R word, and rolled my eyes at those with disabilities.

I believe Chyanne was sent to me to open my eyes because of how I was. And she has and I look back and feel terrible. There is always a life lesson in store for people who treat others poorly. The way some of you view those who have been vaccine damaged is just...there is no words. How these peoples lives changed within a few days is NOT something to laugh or joke about. It isnt a couple hundred radical moms...its hundreds of THOUSANDS who KNOW the link.

I sent you to that link because there are links within the page to go to, not the page itself (like I said). But I think you know that, but just need something to bash.

I guess it is something that cant be understood inless you go through it and watch your child slip into autism. Wich I hope to god none of you have to.

The cold dark hole I pulled it from is from your previous post below:

Its amazing so many people find this type of thing funny. All I have to say is god forbid you EVER have a child who is damaged by a vaccine or becomes autistic only days after recieving one. God forbid. It actually makes me physically sick to see people laugh at the topic. How dare any of you do that. All I have to say about that, is karma is one crazy *itch, and I can see here alot of life lessons need to be learned. I just hope your children wont be the ones teaching you those lessons. The women at JM are a wealth of links to studies and information regarding vaccines. MOST of them parents of children who are injured. How dare anyone laugh at them.

All I ever advocate is researching before you vaccinate, and know who funded that research. If a cigarette company funded a study annd the study said smoking is safe, would you believe it? Its the same with vaccines. It is a business plain and simple. Being a sheep following the heard is a very dangerous way to live.

And no one here is looking for something or someone to bash. We simply require actual scientific evidence, not anecdotes or links to mommy forums. You''re dismissing every single thing the women here have posted even though many have advanced degrees in research that is directly related to autism. Yet you call us close-minded. Amazing!

 

[kama_s]

Date: 2/4/2010 9:51:06 PM
Author: thing2of2




And no one here is looking for something or someone to bash. We simply require actual scientific evidence, not anecdotes or links to mommy forums. You're dismissing every single thing the women here have posted even though many have advanced degrees in research that is directly related to autism. Yet you call us close-minded. Amazing!

And these degrees are NOT paid by rich pharma. I have a Master's in Pharmacology and Toxicology, I've spent years analyzing the toxicity of several substances - including thimerosal. And my degree (and mind you, professional opinion) came from a 20K/year scholarship stipend.

 

[waterlilly]

Date: 2/4/2010 6:34:38 PM
Author: RockHugger
Its amazing so many people find this type of thing funny. All I have to say is god forbid you EVER have a child who is damaged by a vaccine or becomes autistic only days after recieving one. God forbid. It actually makes me physically sick to see people laugh at the topic. How dare any of you do that. All I have to say about that, is karma is one crazy *itch, and I can see here alot of life lessons need to be learned. I just hope your children wont be the ones teaching you those lessons. The women at JM are a wealth of links to studies and information regarding vaccines. MOST of them parents of children who are injured. How dare anyone laugh at them.


All I ever advocate is researching before you vaccinate, and know who funded that research. If a cigarette company funded a study annd the study said smoking is safe, would you believe it? Its the same with vaccines. It is a business plain and simple. Being a sheep following the heard is a very dangerous way to live.

I just can't really even begin to respond to all of your posts, RH. You almost sound like someone who has been brainwashed - your "theories" are SO FAR off. You really have no idea how medical research is conducted, the difference between DATA and OPINION, or the ability to listen to reason. I am so sorry about your child's health issues, but latching on to a SINGLE study that was SO outrageously flawed...I just don't even know - actually, I'm pretty sure there is nothing I can say to get you to realize that you are so wrong.

I am a Sr. Immunologist at a company where I make antibodies for a living. Do you know what an antibody is? Do you know how the immune system functions - do you know what tolerance is? Do you even understand how vaccines work in the body? Have you ever even read an immunology text book? I began my career at the ivory tower itself, surrounded by some of the greatest and most brilliant scientists in this country. Neither myself, nor any of my colleagues have EVER had their research in disease development funded by a Pharma. Why would you think that? You are being brainwashed, period.

ANY medication, medical treatment, medical procedure, food, drink, topical ointment - YOU NAME IT can make some part of the population sick! Does that mean you should stop eating, drinking, breathing, going to the Dr. for anything? All of your replies are just SO flawed and full of nothing but rhetoric. You are like a desperate soul that has been snatched up by a cult. So desperate to understand and have answers for WHY you son might be sick, you have been sucked in by words, not reality.

And - what medical text is funded by Pharma???? That's just insulting, do you know what sort of lifestyle and pure blood/sweat/tears dedication to your research it takes to get to the level that you are writing/contributing to text books? I know some people who have written some of the top texts being used in medical school immunology courses today, funny - they aren't getting a penny from a big Pharma...they are toiling away, working 12-15 hours a day in their labs to get to the TRUTH. While people insist on ignoring it, instead grasping to a joke "study" perpetuated by idiot celebrities who probably never sat through a science class in their lives.

My words might be harsh, but I'm pretty fired up. How dare you dismiss my research. How dare you insult the years and YEARS of incredibly hard work and SACRIFICE people like myself have put into LEARNING and STUDYING to HELP understand and elucidate the mechanisms of disease development by brushing it off as "a business"? You are incredibly ill informed.
You read OPINIONS from a WEBSITE and spout them off as truth - even sadder, you let them lead your life. Sheep, meet the mindless herd.

OH - one more thing. WHO said autism is FUNNY? The only thing people are laughing about is the absolutely ridiculous study and websites you referenced. Stop trying to accuse people of "laughing" at autism. Nice try.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/4/2010 9:29:25 PM
Author: RockHugger
What cold dark hole did you pull that from? I said GOD FORBID your child is damaged from a vaccine. God forbid is saying I hope they dont! You know why I say this? Because the world has a way of opening peoples eyes. When I was a kid, I made fun of a boy with a disability in school. This kid had a crush on me and I was very mean to him. I used the R word, and rolled my eyes at those with disabilities.

I believe Chyanne was sent to me to open my eyes because of how I was. And she has and I look back and feel terrible. There is always a life lesson in store for people who treat others poorly. The way some of you view those who have been vaccine damaged is just...there is no words. How these peoples lives changed within a few days is NOT something to laugh or joke about. It isnt a couple hundred radical moms...its hundreds of THOUSANDS who KNOW the link.

I sent you to that link because there are links within the page to go to, not the page itself (like I said). But I think you know that, but just need something to bash.

I guess it is something that cant be understood inless you go through it and watch your child slip into autism. Wich I hope to god none of you have to.

RH, what you don''t seem to understand is due to the weight of current scientific study (which includes the original study being RETRACTED), there are some of us who do not believe that the vaccine did the damage. HOW you could think that anyone could view a child diagnosed with autism with anything other than caring is beyond me.

And they do not KNOW. They BELIEVE. It''s two entirely different things.

What people think is laughable is how you posted a link to a mother''s forum when people were asking you for research. It might have been buried somewhere in the forum, but if you are so passionate about this, surely you can do better than that.

 

[purrfectpear]

Look, anyone who believes that their child is disabled because of something that they did as a child, has bigger issues than whether they should vacinate or not

Good googly, that''s Bellevue time.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/4/2010 10:03:01 PM
Author: waterlilly



OH - one more thing. WHO said autism is FUNNY? The only thing people are laughing about is the absolutely ridiculous study and websites you referenced. Stop trying to accuse people of ''laughing'' at autism. Nice try.

I find people with victim mentality can twist anything to suit things the way they want to see it.

 

[ksinger]

RH,

Feelings circumventing rational thought cease to be feelings and just become part of a flawed way of thinking about reality. Feelings have no place in a decision about who''s science is better. Just off the top of my head, I tend to think that someone with a PhD in medicine or public health, is going to be a bit more informed and impartial than just mommies. I know I know: there is supposed to be this mystical "thing" that happens when you''ve procreated...all the mysteries of the universe in general, and child-rearing in particular are revealed to you in a flash and you just KNOW. You FEEL the truth now. Of course you''ll just have to accept that I see that attitude to be an unsupported load of poo, especially considering how many of the damaged and dysfunctional products of that mystical knowing, that my husband attempts to teach every day.

Unfortunately, the emphasis on the "validity" of feelings is spilling over into all walks of life now, with feelings supposedly being a valid mode of making choices for darn near anything.
And therein lies the problem with being EMOTIONALLY INVESTED in what you DESIRE to believe, rather than what the overwhelming data of decades points to as TRUE. You get your knickers in a twist and try to make this into an emotional issue. But it''s not, or shouldn''t be. How many times must we ask for the evidence supporting your position, before we get exasperated and begin to point out that you clearly just don''t HAVE any? There is no real nice way to tell someone the unpleasant truth that their reasoning wouldn''t survive 9th grade basic science class, is there? You don''t get a pass on irrationality just because you''ve had tragedy in your life. All of us will, and some of us already have. That''s no excuse for shoddy reasoning. Trot out some real support - no Youtube allowed, sorry, or be prepared to be eviscerated by real medical pros.

Kudos to those pros, btw. I loved you guys in the last thread and it''s no different here. I regain a bit of faith in humanity each time I hear you guys get fired up.

 

[Blenheim]

I''ve been looking through the links on the other board. Ironically, the Lancet study that this thread was started about was mentioned as research proving the autism link. I''m also finding a lot of anecdotal data (women who were 6 weeks pregnant getting the H1N1 vaccine and then miscarrying days later, for example) and various logical fallacies.

Like ChinaCat, I was initially on the fence but reluctant to vaccinate because of a lot of the rhetoric about vaccine injuries and the like. But the more that we looked into it, the more pro-vax we became.