Home Lancet retracts study linking autism to vaccines

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/4/2010 3:03:01 PM
Author: RockHugger
If you know of any studies NOT funded by pharmacy companies on the safety of heavy metals in vaccines...please show me. I know I would rather have a study showing something is safe instead of a study showing it doesnt cause a claimed illness before using a product!

Science does not work this way. You will never see a study that proves aything is 100% safe, but that doesn''t mean the benefits don''t far outweigh the risks. Even if something is totally safe, you cannot prove a negative, so you will never see a study about it. If you''re going to wait for all of these studies, you''re going to be waiting a long time.

And you think you kicked swine flu with a garlic smoothy? Previously you recommended your smoothy for getting rid of bacterial infections, and now you''re recommending it for viruses? Swine flu is like the common cold - there is no cure. You have to wait it out. So the fact that your whole family recovered from a flu doesn''t really make me want to run out and try this magical smoothy. There''s a big difference between coincidence and causation I think you''re confusing the two.

And I think the women on this thread have proven that they have researched vaccines very carefully before giving them to their children. You claim that all you want is for parents to do the research, but when other parents prove that they have done it, you still claim that they are close minded. I think you want parents to believe what you believe, not just do research before vaccination.

 

[cara]

Date: 2/4/2010 3:03:01 PM
Author: RockHugger
As for my child making someone elses baby sick, did you know vaccines dont prevent you from transmitting the disease? A completely vaxed 6 yr old, can carry the measles/pertusses to your unvaxed baby, giving him/her the measles. The 6 yr old can carry it, but because of the vaccine wont catch it (if hes lucky and it works). So my child not being vaccinated is no greater risk then your vaccinated child to those at risk of illness. In fact, the rotovirus and some forms of the polio virus vaccines actually shed for up to 2 weeks after vaccination, exposing anyone in contact to the illness. That really tickes me off about the new DTaP vaccine promotion. ''Vaccinate yourself to protect your baby''. Bull Turds. You can still transmit pertussis with the vaccine!

A vaccinated 6 yr might be able to carry a disease home to a newborn, but the risk is MUCH MUCH less than an actively infected 6 yr shedding virus particles everywhere. Its a completely different level of risk. Plus, if your vaccinated 6 year old lives in a world where all the other parents vaccinate their children on schedule, and almost everyone is immune then the risk that your vaccinated 6 year old would be exposed to the virus is almost nil because the virus cannot sustain itself in your community because almost everyone is immune. If a ''stranger'' with mealses comes into the community, the disease makes a much smaller inroad into the community before dying out because the vast majority of the people are immune.

You are concerned about very small risks (that a vaccinated child might be exposed to disease and act as a carrier, transmitting it to an vulnerable person) and not concerned about larger risks (that your UNVACCINATED child might be exposed to a disease, contract said disease, and then either suffer am uncommon but not impossibly rare bad outcome or transmit the disease to a vulnerable person.)

Same with transmitting the disease in the two-weeks post-vaccination. Extremely rare possibility, to be balanced with the risks of going years without immunity and then being vulnerable to infection and having a much higher risk of transmitting the disease to other non-immune people when/if the disease reaches your community.

 

[RockHugger]

Date: 2/4/2010 3:11:38 PM
Author: elrohwen

Date: 2/4/2010 3:03:01 PM
Author: RockHugger
If you know of any studies NOT funded by pharmacy companies on the safety of heavy metals in vaccines...please show me. I know I would rather have a study showing something is safe instead of a study showing it doesnt cause a claimed illness before using a product!

Science does not work this way. You will never see a study that proves aything is 100% safe, but that doesn't mean the benefits don't far outweigh the risks. Even if something is totally safe, you cannot prove a negative, so you will never see a study about it. If you're going to wait for all of these studies, you're going to be waiting a long time.

And you think you kicked swine flu with a garlic smoothy? Previously you recommended your smoothy for getting rid of bacterial infections, and now you're recommending it for viruses? Swine flu is like the common cold - there is no cure. You have to wait it out. So the fact that your whole family recovered from a flu doesn't really make me want to run out and try this magical smoothy. There's a big difference between coincidence and causation I think you're confusing the two.

And I think the women on this thread have proven that they have researched vaccines very carefully before giving them to their children. You claim that all you want is for parents to do the research, but when other parents prove that they have done it, you still claim that they are close minded. I think you want parents to believe what you believe, not just do research before vaccination.

EXACTLY why I dont vaccinate. Science wont test for safety intill its forced to be tested. If I am going to inject something into my childs blood stream. It better have been tested for safety (and by someone who is not making the money off of it)! Not just ASSUMED safe!
Acillin is effective against bacteria, viruses and fungus. It was used before penicillin was invented. They actually used to pack wounds durring WW1 with crushed garlic.
Please research it before you blow it off. This is what I mean. Closed minded. You have your mind set on it befor eyou even know anything about it.

I guess coincidence cured my MRSA as well right (that vancomyacin couldnt kill)? My 8 yr old had severe cellulitis on her hand from biting at herself. I packed it with raw crushed garlic and olive oil for a few days and it was gone.
It also boosts the immune system (I have no idea how or why but it works!) She had a 1.2 white blood count the doctors couldnt find the reason for. Sence she has been doing the smoothies regularly, she is at a fairly normal 5.8.

Now I dont have conclusive studies on this by big labs, if its what your looking for. But I thought I was being a nice human being by sharing something that has helped my family so much. Excuse me!

 

[RockHugger]

Date: 2/4/2010 3:28:21 PM
Author: cara

Date: 2/4/2010 3:03:01 PM
Author: RockHugger
As for my child making someone elses baby sick, did you know vaccines dont prevent you from transmitting the disease? A completely vaxed 6 yr old, can carry the measles/pertusses to your unvaxed baby, giving him/her the measles. The 6 yr old can carry it, but because of the vaccine wont catch it (if hes lucky and it works). So my child not being vaccinated is no greater risk then your vaccinated child to those at risk of illness. In fact, the rotovirus and some forms of the polio virus vaccines actually shed for up to 2 weeks after vaccination, exposing anyone in contact to the illness. That really tickes me off about the new DTaP vaccine promotion. ''Vaccinate yourself to protect your baby''. Bull Turds. You can still transmit pertussis with the vaccine!

A vaccinated 6 yr might be able to carry a disease home to a newborn, but the risk is MUCH MUCH less than an actively infected 6 yr shedding virus particles everywhere. Its a completely different level of risk. Plus, if your vaccinated 6 year old lives in a world where all the other parents vaccinate their children on schedule, and almost everyone is immune then the risk that your vaccinated 6 year old would be exposed to the virus is almost nil because the virus cannot sustain itself in your community because almost everyone is immune. If a ''stranger'' with mealses comes into the community, the disease makes a much smaller inroad into the community before dying out because the vast majority of the people are immune.

You are concerned about very small risks (that a vaccinated child might be exposed to disease and act as a carrier, transmitting it to an vulnerable person) and not concerned about larger risks (that your UNVACCINATED child might be exposed to a disease, contract said disease, and then either suffer am uncommon but not impossibly rare bad outcome or transmit the disease to a vulnerable person.)

Same with transmitting the disease in the two-weeks post-vaccination. Extremely rare possibility, to be balanced with the risks of going years without immunity and then being vulnerable to infection and having a much higher risk of transmitting the disease to other non-immune people when/if the disease reaches your community.

Cara, I understand what you are saying. But the diseases dont scare me. Measles I have delt with before, Pertussis I have delt with before and the rest dont scare me one bit. Well the only one that concerns me is menengitis, but my youngest recieved that shot (the only one she EVER recieved before deciding not to vaccinate) and had a bad reaction to it. So its not something she will be getting again. None of the others scare me one bit.

 

[neatfreak]

Rockhugger, my mind is WIDE open. But you have yet to provide a single link to back up your claims.

If you are so well researched on the topic I would assume that you have citations to back it up. I have spent the last number of years getting my Ph.D. in health policy. So I understand research believe me. And when I make a claim in a paper you can bet I better have citations to back me up or else my advisor will rip me a new one.

There are many of us on here, myself included, that have spent YEARS in health related fields. With degrees on the topics up the wazoo. And we are all telling you that we HAVE researched it and there is no link. Not even a correlation that's credible at this point.

Yet you keep telling me that there is. So I just want to see it. That's all. My mind is open to all research that's presented to me, but that doesn't mean I will believe research that isn't well done. Whether it's from big pharma or katie's mom's autism blog, I'll read it and form conclusions based on my background about what constitutes credible research.

And no, my salary is not paid by big pharma. Who as Elrohwen so eloquently put it before, stands to make a lot more money off the drugs they ue to fight these diseases than they do from the vaccines themselves.

 

[RockHugger]

Please read what I posted above.

 

[TravelingGal]

Neatfreak honey....

<------------

 

[cara]

What's with the santa hat TGal?

But thanks, I think I needed the umm, reminder of my futility too...

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:10:19 PM
Author: cara
What''s with the santa hat TGal?

But thanks, I think I needed the image too...

I''m holding on to Christmas awhile longer. It''s a delusion I feel doesn''t warrant a one way ticket to the funny farm and may just be considered a cute quirk.

 

[sunnyd]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:08:28 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Neatfreak honey....

<------------

 

[mia1181]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:08:28 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Neatfreak honey....

<------------

Haha!

Hey Tgal and I are just trying to keep the holiday spirit alive..... or we''re lazy!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:13:21 PM
Author: mia1181

Date: 2/4/2010 4:08:28 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Neatfreak honey....

<------------

Haha!

Hey Tgal and I are just trying to keep the holiday spirit alive..... or we''re lazy!

I mean seriously...it''s OK to bring in the Christmas stuff in SEPTEMBER these days...why can''t we keep everything up until March?

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/4/2010 3:34:42 PM
Author: RockHugger
Cara, I understand what you are saying. But the diseases dont scare me. Measles I have delt with before, Pertussis I have delt with before and the rest dont scare me one bit. Well the only one that concerns me is menengitis, but my youngest recieved that shot (the only one she EVER recieved before deciding not to vaccinate) and had a bad reaction to it. So its not something she will be getting again. None of the others scare me one bit.

Speaking as someone who has had meningitis and survived it, you should be scared of it. They very much thought I was going to die. Also speaking as someone who was fully vaccinated, if someone had said, "Here is this vaccine against meningitis. It has small amounts of a whole bunch of things that are bad for you in it, but it PROBABLY will prevent you from getting this horrible disease." I would have taken it.

And this was before my college degree when I spent 4 years reading research papers and evaluating studies for validity and considering correlation or causation for them and finding other faults in their logic or research methods. And before marrying a statistical researcher who looks at correlation and causation for a living.

As for autism. I grew up across the street from a boy who was severely autistic. His life was no picnic. Seeing as how your child has autism and Down Syndrome, I suggest looking into/googling "comorbidity autism and down syndrome". Apparently the rates are quite high. That''s an interesting correlation.

Also, you are probably not scared of above mentioned diseases because you haven''t seen them first hand. I haven''t either, but I certainly don''t want to, and I hope that I never do, but with more people not vaccinating, and the herd immunity decreasing, I probably will. And you probably will as well.

I have done my research. And I have done my research on my research, and now I, as well as others, am asking for your scientific sources. Saying that there aren''t any because Big Pharma prevents it...not buying that. If someone really wants to study something, they will. Regardless of $$$.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:14:47 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 2/4/2010 4:13:21 PM
Author: mia1181

Date: 2/4/2010 4:08:28 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Neatfreak honey....
<------------

Haha!

Hey Tgal and I are just trying to keep the holiday spirit alive..... or we''re lazy!

I mean seriously...it''s OK to bring in the Christmas stuff in SEPTEMBER these days...why can''t we keep everything up until March?

You know, my local stores have started in August the past couple of years. I say keep it up until April...maybe even May!

 

[princesss]

T-Gal, that says it all.

 

[Clairitek]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:17:52 PM
Author: FrekeChild
I have done my research. And I have done my research on my research, and now I, as well as others, am asking for your scientific sources. Saying that there aren''t any because Big Pharma prevents it...not buying that. If someone really wants to study something, they will. Regardless of $$$.

Well said. As someone who has spent the last 6 years in a research setting I''ve seen some bizarre stuff that has funding. ITA with Freke that if someone cares enough/believes that a theory has a shred of truth to it/finds something intriguing enough they will find the money.

 

[RockHugger]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:17:52 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 2/4/2010 3:34:42 PM
Author: RockHugger
Cara, I understand what you are saying. But the diseases dont scare me. Measles I have delt with before, Pertussis I have delt with before and the rest dont scare me one bit. Well the only one that concerns me is menengitis, but my youngest recieved that shot (the only one she EVER recieved before deciding not to vaccinate) and had a bad reaction to it. So its not something she will be getting again. None of the others scare me one bit.

Speaking as someone who has had meningitis and survived it, you should be scared of it. They very much thought I was going to die. Also speaking as someone who was fully vaccinated, if someone had said, 'Here is this vaccine against meningitis. It has small amounts of a whole bunch of things that are bad for you in it, but it PROBABLY will prevent you from getting this horrible disease.' I would have taken it.

And this was before my college degree when I spent 4 years reading research papers and evaluating studies for validity and considering correlation or causation for them and finding other faults in their logic or research methods. And before marrying a statistical researcher who looks at correlation and causation for a living.

As for autism. I grew up across the street from a boy who was severely autistic. His life was no picnic. Seeing as how your child has autism and Down Syndrome, I suggest looking into/googling 'comorbidity autism and down syndrome'. Apparently the rates are quite high. That's an interesting correlation.

Also, you are probably not scared of above mentioned diseases because you haven't seen them first hand. I haven't either, but I certainly don't want to, and I hope that I never do, but with more people not vaccinating, and the herd immunity decreasing, I probably will. And you probably will as well.

I have done my research. And I have done my research on my research, and now I, as well as others, am asking for your scientific sources. Saying that there aren't any because Big Pharma prevents it...not buying that. If someone really wants to study something, they will. Regardless of $$$.

My 1st has had measles and pertussis (see picture earlier in the post), so I have seen them first hand. Thats actually the reason I am not afraid of it.
My 2nd will not recieve the rest of the HiB vaccine because of a bad reaction with the first. You wouldnt give penicillin to a child who is allergic to it. Its the same with vaccines. She is allergic to it and will not get it. She will not get the rest of the vaccines because I dont fear the illnesses.

 

[elrohwen]

{{ runs to get santa hat to bang head, TGal-style }}

 

[PinkTower]

Freke, I''m with you on this, and from a slightly different bent.

I was born in the 50''s, so there was no vaccine for measles. I don''t recall it, but as a child and even an adult, my mother talked about how ill I was.

What I do recall, every day, is the damage the fever did to my teeth. They have a stain all the way through them, as they were not yet erupted, and the high fever for so long damaged them both cosmetically and structurally.

Mumps are also extremely dangerous, and, again, those of us in my age group are well aware of the damage mumps can cause. I have a friend who is totally deaf in one ear from mumps.

I have no medical background, granted, but I have first hand knowledge of mumps and measles, and

anyone who says these diseases do not scare them has not experienced their damage firsthand.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 2/4/2010 8:41:12 AM
Author: RockHugger
Its not a conspiracy theory. It is proven fact! Anyone who does a few hrs of research on the subject will see the money trails. All these medical books doctors are given in college. Look up who makes them and who the credit is given to. MOST of them are MERK or Pfitzer. The ''conspiracy theory'' excuse people use, is just an excuse to not believe what is being said, because you dont want to believe it..so you discredit me saying its a ''conspiracy theory''.


And all the parents (or not yet to be parents) who do not have a child with autism...would you seriously not make a link if your child developed symptoms within days or 2 weeks after getting a vaccine? I know I was the same as you HH, till it happened to us. The whole 1 in 100 or 1% makes it sound like its not a huge deal. Intill it happens to your child, and those numbers mean absolutely nothing.


And HH, please answer my question. Would you feed your new born baby formula containing mercury formeldayde or aluminum? I am not picking on you...I ask that to everyone here who is pro vaccine.

RH, the NIH requires that all studies who have received funding from pharma companies state the connection in the publication. That''s part of the ethical standard that is set for scientific/peer-reviewed publications. The funding for research into medical conditions and treatments has to come from somewhere. While the pharmas have vested interest, their agenda should not have any bearing on the outcome of these studies, that violates every ethical standard that exists. As for the books you''re alluding to. The pharma companies do not produce medical textbooks. Publishers do, publishers I''ve worked for for the past eight years, in fact. There is NO connection between publishers, pharma companies, and medical students or curriculum. If you made that statement in front of an editor or author, they''d laugh in your face because this is just a false statement.

To use your own reasoning. The conspiracy theory is an excuse to explain the reason why this happened to your child, because you don''t want to believe that your child was in the minority who are diagnosed with a debilitating condition, so you''re crediting anything that could even remotely be connected, even when proven otherwise, the as the reason for your child''s condition.

And I plan to breast feed, not formula feed, so your question is mute. Besides, formula is regulated by the FDA as a food product and does not contain the aforementioned compounds so the question is moot.

 

[RockHugger]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:36:35 PM
Author: elrohwen
{{ runs to get santa hat to bang head, TGal-style }}

You know..thats the same feeling I get when I hear people talking about getting their childs shots at the doctors.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/4/2010 3:29:02 PM
Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/4/2010 3:11:38 PM
Author: elrohwen

Date: 2/4/2010 3:03:01 PM
Author: RockHugger
If you know of any studies NOT funded by pharmacy companies on the safety of heavy metals in vaccines...please show me. I know I would rather have a study showing something is safe instead of a study showing it doesnt cause a claimed illness before using a product!

Science does not work this way. You will never see a study that proves aything is 100% safe, but that doesn't mean the benefits don't far outweigh the risks. Even if something is totally safe, you cannot prove a negative, so you will never see a study about it. If you're going to wait for all of these studies, you're going to be waiting a long time.

And you think you kicked swine flu with a garlic smoothy? Previously you recommended your smoothy for getting rid of bacterial infections, and now you're recommending it for viruses? Swine flu is like the common cold - there is no cure. You have to wait it out. So the fact that your whole family recovered from a flu doesn't really make me want to run out and try this magical smoothy. There's a big difference between coincidence and causation I think you're confusing the two.

And I think the women on this thread have proven that they have researched vaccines very carefully before giving them to their children. You claim that all you want is for parents to do the research, but when other parents prove that they have done it, you still claim that they are close minded. I think you want parents to believe what you believe, not just do research before vaccination.

EXACTLY why I dont vaccinate. Science wont test for safety intill its forced to be tested. If I am going to inject something into my childs blood stream. It better have been tested for safety (and by someone who is not making the money off of it)! Not just ASSUMED safe!

Sigh. It has nothing to do with people not *wanting* to do studies to prove vaccines safe, or "big pharma" preventing these studies. It has everything to do with the fact that you cannot, physically cannot, prove that something is 100% safe. You just can't go through every single possibility with every single child, environment, etc to prove that something will be safe in every situation.

It's the same reason we can't prove that purple space aliens don't exist. Just because it's not possible to prove they aren't out there doesn't mean I'm stocking up on purple alien repellent. It's just not logical or rational to say that because medical science will never prove vaccines to be 100% safe that you won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. All it takes is reading the studies about how effective vaccines are and how horrible these diseases have been in the past (even if your study of one child with the measles shows otherwise) to realize that the risk of not having a child vaccinated far far outweighs the risks of having them vaccinated. No one is assuming anything - everyone is pointing out how all current reliable research indicates that vaccinating is far safer than choosing not to.

 

[Lauren8211]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:42:34 PM
Author: elrohwen

Date: 2/4/2010 3:29:02 PM
Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/4/2010 3:11:38 PM
Author: elrohwen

Date: 2/4/2010 3:03:01 PM
Author: RockHugger
If you know of any studies NOT funded by pharmacy companies on the safety of heavy metals in vaccines...please show me. I know I would rather have a study showing something is safe instead of a study showing it doesnt cause a claimed illness before using a product!

Science does not work this way. You will never see a study that proves aything is 100% safe, but that doesn''t mean the benefits don''t far outweigh the risks. Even if something is totally safe, you cannot prove a negative, so you will never see a study about it. If you''re going to wait for all of these studies, you''re going to be waiting a long time.

And you think you kicked swine flu with a garlic smoothy? Previously you recommended your smoothy for getting rid of bacterial infections, and now you''re recommending it for viruses? Swine flu is like the common cold - there is no cure. You have to wait it out. So the fact that your whole family recovered from a flu doesn''t really make me want to run out and try this magical smoothy. There''s a big difference between coincidence and causation I think you''re confusing the two.

And I think the women on this thread have proven that they have researched vaccines very carefully before giving them to their children. You claim that all you want is for parents to do the research, but when other parents prove that they have done it, you still claim that they are close minded. I think you want parents to believe what you believe, not just do research before vaccination.

EXACTLY why I dont vaccinate. Science wont test for safety intill its forced to be tested. If I am going to inject something into my childs blood stream. It better have been tested for safety (and by someone who is not making the money off of it)! Not just ASSUMED safe!

Sigh. It has nothing to do with people not *wanting* to do studies to prove vaccines safe, or ''big pharma'' preventing these studies. It has everything to do with the fact that you cannot, physically cannot, prove that something is 100% safe. You just can''t go through every single possibility with every single child, environment, etc to prove that something will be safe in every situation.

It''s the same reason we can''t prove that purple space aliens don''t exist. Just because it''s not possible to prove they aren''t out there doesn''t mean I''m stocking up on purple alien repellant. It''s just not logical or rational to say that because medical science will never prove vaccines to be 100% safe that you won''t touch them with a 10 foot pole. All it takes is reading the studies about how effective vaccines are and how horrible these diseases have been in the past (even if your study of one child with the measles shows otherwise) to realize that the risk of not having a child vaccinated far far outweighs the risks of having them vaccinated. No one is assuming anything - everyone is pointing out how all current reliable research indicates that vaccinating is far safer than choosing not to.

Then who took me....?

 

[swimmer]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:38:07 PM
Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/4/2010 4:36:35 PM

Author: elrohwen

{{ runs to get santa hat to bang head, TGal-style }}

You know..thats the same feeling I get when I hear people talking about getting their childs shots at the doctors.

RH, I am expecting a baby in a few months so am looking around for research that shows anything about risk of vaccinations. I keep reading posts saying "do your homework" but can''t find any actual research that shows negatives about vaccinations, just anecdotes. If you could please find anything that isn''t just bloggers talking about their own kids, I would be very appreciative.

I know you are busy, it sounds like your kids get sick with very serious stuff regularly, so understand that you have limited time. Thank you!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:38:07 PM
Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/4/2010 4:36:35 PM
Author: elrohwen
{{ runs to get santa hat to bang head, TGal-style }}

You know..thats the same feeling I get when I hear people talking about getting their childs shots at the doctors.

RH, you''re entitled to your opinion, and I''m sure there are a few PSers who share your suspicion of vaccines. Obviously no one is going to change your mind. And you''re not concerned about the diseases, that''s fair enough. That''s how you feel, and it''s a fact for you, I get that.

However, if you are going to come here and state, as adamantly as you are, your case for what causes autism and what can help this, that or the other thing, it is not rude of people to ask for links and studies. If you''re so passionate about this and are frustrated when people go and vac their kids, why wouldn''t you give us the back up? Yes, you said you are "very busy with 2 kids and can''t be sitting here looking up studies" for us, but you seem to have time to collect gems, shoot pictures, chat on PS, etc...why not find the link the studies yourself that you''ve already researched them, especially if it would really help someone to see things your way and potentially keep autism at bay?

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:45:22 PM
Author: elledizzy5

Then who took me....?

Those were the orange space aliens. Totally different species. Very sneaky.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 2/4/2010 10:41:05 AM
Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/4/2010 10:23:09 AM

Author: princesss

Date: 2/4/2010 10:10:41 AM

Author: RockHugger

*Children in villages with little or no medical aid available die of things we can vaccinate against.*


EXACTLY! I am not arguing giving kids in developing countries vaccinations!! I am arguing giving kids vaccinations in developed countries where the risk of the vaccine does NOT outweigh the risks of the disease.

The risk TO YOU does not outweigh the risk of the disease. My (again, hypothetical) child having to possibly fight off multiple vicious diseases that can (and do) leave the children disfigured and/or dead, or risking being in the 1% that suffers serious side effects is not a question to me. I''d rather risk being in the one percent than being in the percentage of children that are negatively affected by these diseases (which, and I''m sorry I don''t have numbers on me, is obviously higher than 1% since we felt the need to develop a vaccine against them).


Even with medical intervention, there are VERY serious complications from diseases that we vaccinate against, and they would affect far more than 1% of the population if we allowed them to come back.

By the way...please read the vaccine insert for the HiB vaccine. Interesting stuff in there expecially where it tells you there is a 50% increase in contracting hib 2 weeks after the vaccine (in small small print). My child has less of a chance contracting hib her whole life, then during those 2 weeks post vaccination.


I am also currious how many people would be on the pro side of the fence if ther child was actually effected by vaccine damage. From what I am reading, the pro vaccine people here either dont have kids, or have kids who have not been damaged. I think its a perfect example of ''it cant happen to me''.


How yould you feel if this was your child... would you still support the vaccine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C4Xf6_c8zE

My best friend''s brother in law is autistic. Know what? They''ve vaccinated their children. Know why? Because they don''t feel there''s a legitimate connection between the two and they feel the benefits outweigh the risks. These two people are very on top of their health and that of their family. Their children get organic everything. However, they will never sway in their beliefs that it''s in the best interest of their children to be vaccinated.

 

[swimmer]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:48:20 PM
Author: elrohwen

Date: 2/4/2010 4:45:22 PM

Author: elledizzy5

Then who took me....?

Those were the orange space aliens. Totally different species. Very sneaky.

Smacks head, different sort of repellent too!

 

[RockHugger]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:46:37 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 2/4/2010 4:38:07 PM
Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/4/2010 4:36:35 PM
Author: elrohwen
{{ runs to get santa hat to bang head, TGal-style }}

You know..thats the same feeling I get when I hear people talking about getting their childs shots at the doctors.

RH, you''re entitled to your opinion, and I''m sure there are a few PSers who share your suspicion of vaccines. Obviously no one is going to change your mind. And you''re not concerned about the diseases, that''s fair enough. That''s how you feel, and it''s a fact for you, I get that.

However, if you are going to come here and state, as adamantly as you are, your case for what causes autism and what can help this, that or the other thing, it is not rude of people to ask for links and studies. If you''re so passionate about this and are frustrated when people go and vac their kids, why wouldn''t you give us the back up? Yes, you said you are ''very busy with 2 kids and can''t be sitting here looking up studies'' for us, but you seem to have time to collect gems, shoot pictures, chat on PS, etc...why not find the link the studies yourself that you''ve already researched them, especially if it would really help someone to see things your way and potentially keep autism at bay?

I gave you a place to find the studies and information above. Apparently noone read it.

go to www.justmommies.com. Then go to choosing not to vaccinate and look through it. Everything is archived there.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/4/2010 4:48:29 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
My best friend's brother in law is autistic. Know what? They've vaccinated their children. Know why? Because they don't feel there's a legitimate connection between the two and they feel the benefits outweigh the risks. These two people are very on top of their health and that of their family. Their children get organic everything. However, they will never sway in their beliefs that it's in the best interest of their children to be vaccinated.

Both of my parents are child psychologists and my dad is an autism specialist - they chose to have me vaccinated and would recommend without reservation that I have my future children vaccinated. I trust experts in the field, especially those with their future grandchildren's health at stake.