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L.A. Jewelry Store Looting (Video)

liaerfbv

Brilliant_Rock
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@m1918 THANK YOU for sharing this. I wish I knew how to embed that video in this post because I fear not enough people here will take the 5m to click and watch it. It’s so powerful and explains so much of the looting psychology I was referencing earlier in a much clearer way.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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This is a really piss-poor excuse for looting and I'm totally not buying it, sorry if that makes me politically incorrect. My grandparents were poor in the depression and they didn't steal things. Please.
Your response makes me think you did not listen to the video carefully. This is about much more than money/being poor.
 

nala

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This is a really piss-poor excuse for looting and I'm totally not buying it, sorry if that makes me politically incorrect. My grandparents were poor in the depression and they didn't steal things. Please.
I come from poverty as well. My parents were immigrants who were super poor in Mexico. They left Mexico for the American dream Of becoming crop pickers. Their history compels me to feel empathy for others. As much as I keep repeating that I’m torn between the anger and the empathy at the looting, this video reminds me that my heart is in the right place when I lean towards empathy. Bc as poor as I was, I have never been desperate enough to wake up and tell myself, today I’m going to risk my freedom and my life to steal shoes. Or angry enough. 9CA324CF-3106-4C67-AFA9-B57C18B6A12D.jpeg
 

yssie

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I come from poverty as well. My parents were immigrants who were super poor in Mexico. They left Mexico for the American dream Of becoming crop pickers. Their history compels me to feel empathy for others. As much as I keep repeating that I’m torn between the anger and the empathy at the looting, this video reminds me that my heart is in the right place when I lean towards empathy. Bc as poor as I was, I have never been desperate enough to wake up and tell myself, today I’m going to risk my freedom and my life to steal shoes. Or angry enough. 9CA324CF-3106-4C67-AFA9-B57C18B6A12D.jpeg
This.

My parents were also poor in the extreme.

“We should question why, in 2020, the financial gap between poor blacks and everyone else is so disparate, that their only opportunity to get some of these things is this sort of opportunistic chaos” - not an exact quote, but my word changes are trivial.

1. No, the looters aren’t just poor blacks. Plenty of other races reflected. Probably run the income gamut. Who knows what the demographic breakdown of these hooligans is - she certainly doesn’t.

2. Look at the stores that are looted. Jewellery. Haute couture. Mail trucks. Not just clothing stores or grocery stores or "needs" distributors... Frankly, if somoene's "one shot" at a Louis Vuitton ${whatever} is to steal it during this sort of chaos, then that person should question that deep-seated desire for that item. No, that person does not deserve it by virtue of being black, white, green, historically oppressed, ancestrally wealthy. Health and welfare are rights that all people deserve. A significant amount of what has been looted in these riots - not so much.

She's right: We should be questioning the wealth gap, hiring practices, social mores, and demanding change. But ethics requires doing so without resorting to becoming criminals, and without accepting criminal behaviour from others.

Before anyone says so - no, my response does NOT mean that I'm okay with any of this - the wealth gap, unfair hiring practices, systemic racist and sexist social mores, murder of blacks. I don't condone criminal activity in the name of "restitution" for these societal failings, though. And it takes attention away from peaceful protesters - those peaceful protesters are the people who deserve our attention.
 
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liaerfbv

Brilliant_Rock
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@doberman Do you see the irony that you’re defensively arguing with me about the motivation for looting versus denouncing the police officers habitual murder of black Americans? You’ve just proved the point that property destruction is more valuable than black lives.

ETA “valuable” as social currency for change
 

liaerfbv

Brilliant_Rock
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@yssie I see the point you’re making about ethical considerations. And again. No one is advocating for looting or destruction. But I think it’s fair to say black Americans have been questioning those hiring practices, the wealth gap, hiring practices, etc. since the Civil Rights movement (and earlier), and not only have there been few improvements, their people are continuing to be murdered. I think the time for ethical considerations in response to systemic murder is over.
 

stracci2000

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Every one of those looters knows right from wrong.
Looting and stealing is wrong.
And everyone knows it.
The lady in the video can defend it any way she wants to, but it's still wrong.
 
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doberman

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@nala First of all, I'm not arguing with you or anybody. And how you came to the conclusion that I care more about the motivation for looting than I do about the murder of black people is baffling.
 

yssie

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@yssie I see the point you’re making about ethical considerations. And again. No one is advocating for looting or destruction. But I think it’s fair to say black Americans have been questioning those hiring practices, the wealth gap, hiring practices, etc. since the Civil Rights movement (and earlier), and not only have there been few improvements, their people are continuing to be murdered. I think the time for ethical considerations in response to systemic murder is over.
No, no-one's advocating for it, of course.
I don't like to see anyone advocating for condoning it either, though. And that video pretty much demands that we do just that.
As @nala said - I think we as a citizenry can empathize with the "why" by working to understand some of these issues, especially those that are unique to blacks in America, without excusing criminal behaviour.
I don't believe that her indignance, anger, and frustration is misplaced. By expressing it to a camera for a short that has been viewed probably thousands of times - she has voiced it in a productive way.
The looters and rioters could find equally productive outlets, if their goals weren't wholly selfish.
 

liaerfbv

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Sure. But I think it’s also fair to say that historically peaceful protests are not as effective as destructive uprisings in creating positive social change. How long are we as a society going to let the police murder black people indiscriminately? How long is a disenfranchised group of people supposed to swallow their unfair and frankly criminal treatment before they use the tools they have at their disposal to create change? 400+ years seems long enough to me.

ETA I am not condoning it. I’m saying I understand and see the motivations that led to the behavior. I wish the alternative options (peaceful protest, lobbying, voting in un-gerrymandered districts) were available and effective. But let’s not kid ourselves that they aren’t.
 

yssie

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Sure. But I think it’s also fair to say that historically peaceful protests are not as effective as destructive uprisings in creating positive social change. How long are we as a society going to let the police murder black people indiscriminately? How long is a disenfranchised group of people supposed to swallow their unfair and frankly criminal treatment before they use the tools they have at their disposal to create change? 400+ years seems long enough to me.
The problem with this premise is that it doesn't reflect what's actually happening - the looters and rioters aren't all black. They aren't all poor. They aren't all from a disenfranchised group of people that has been swallowing their (I agree) criminally unfair treatment for hundreds of years.
Even if they were, though, I would still not condone it. For me noone will ever get a free pass to destroy another human being's safety and livelihood.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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This is a really piss-poor excuse for looting and I'm totally not buying it, sorry if that makes me politically incorrect. My grandparents were poor in the depression and they didn't steal things. Please.
my great uncle got two weeks in jail for stealing a loaf of bread in the depression. probably the only thing he stole in his whole life
 

liaerfbv

Brilliant_Rock
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Of course there are people who are looting and being destructive just because they can. People are *******s. But I don’t think you can say just because a portion of the participants are opportunists the overall impetus from the disenfranchised group is any less valid.
 

liaerfbv

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@stracci2000 Do you think it’s wrong and prevalent enough that cities will be changing their laws or practices in response?
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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ETA I am not condoning it. I’m saying I understand and see the motivations that led to the behavior. I wish the alternative options (peaceful protest, lobbying, voting in un-gerrymandered districts) were available and effective. But let’s not kid ourselves that they aren’t.
I get where you're coming from. Obstacles are stacked SO high against people who want to do the Right Thing without doing any harm to anyone else.
But is meaningful, lasting change for the better possible without staying within the confines of some universal codes of ethics and morality? I don't believe it is. I'm not saying that to be contrary - I really feel that way. I believe intent and execution have to both be "just" for the outcome to be indisputably positive. The social and economic systems that we've got now, borne of prejudice and nurtured by disinterest and more prejudice, are so far from "just".
 

stracci2000

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@stracci2000 Do you think it’s wrong and prevalent enough that cities will be changing their laws or practices in response?
Laws will be changed on how police restrain arrested people. It's already happening, as I saw on the news today.
The protesting has brought about this change.

But because of the recent looting, there will be more of a police presence in the future.
Which is only going to cause more clashes between protesters and police.

The looting is mob mentality and a crime of opportunity. One guy smashes the window on a business, and the rest just stream in to take advantage of the situation.
To say that it is somehow the manifestation of 400 years of suppression is a stretch.
 

liaerfbv

Brilliant_Rock
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@yssie On an intellectual and moral level, I completely agree with you. But I live in downtown Chicago and I’m currently blockaded in my apartment (with my infant or I’d be out there too), surrounded by military humvees and helicopters, listening to the chanting in the streets. I see the prejudice and hate that exists from the CPD in my neighborhood towards black people. The time for a just and moral resolution to this situation I fear is decades and many dead bodies too late.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I hope we as a supposedly civilized country can beat the odds and prove this wrong @liaerfbv - and I know that you're hoping the same :(sad

Please stay safe out there!! That sounds pretty darn terrifying!!
 

Tarquin

Rough_Rock
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Sep 8, 2015
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The term is redlining, decades of preventing people of color being denied home loans in this "nice" part of town, IOW racism. :angryfire:
Redlining is actually the practice of banks refusing to give loans to particular areas in cities. Whether black brown or white. As well as preventing home ownership it prevented icommercial nvestment in those neighborhoods Underwriters would draw a redline on a map and would refuse to write loans to those parts of the city.

Refusing to give loans to POC in nice areas is just called racism.
 

Tarquin

Rough_Rock
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Ya'll need to do some serious reflecting, reading (and praying if that's your thing), on why you're more outraged about property destruction, than, you know, the systemic murder of a group of people based on their skin color.
Isn't it possible to be upset about both things?

I am sickened by the murders of George Floyd and Breonna and Admaud as well as the others that have been killed.

Can I not also be upset about hardworking people losing their ability to feed their families? And the ability of people of color to buy groceries and get prescriptions? BLM in my large city is seeking volunteers to delivery prescriptions to the elderly and disabled since their local drugstores are now gone. I worry that small businesses won't rebuild in the areas that need small businesses and the jobs that are now lost.
 

arkieb1

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@yssie On an intellectual and moral level, I completely agree with you. But I live in downtown Chicago and I’m currently blockaded in my apartment (with my infant or I’d be out there too), surrounded by military humvees and helicopters, listening to the chanting in the streets. I see the prejudice and hate that exists from the CPD in my neighborhood towards black people. The time for a just and moral resolution to this situation I fear is decades and many dead bodies too late.
I actually think as an outsider it's Trump's fault it came to this, if he had taken a stance when George Floyd was killed and said that the police officers actions were unacceptable and he was going to do everything in his power to ensure justice for the Floyd family and for all black Americans it would have gone a long way to stopping what we are seeing now.

Instead your leader is a moron who inflames hatred and violence.
 
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