Kitty Update

Lorelei · Oct 14, 2005

Yes a truly agressive cat will never, as indeed any other animal, expose the most vulnerable part of themselves - the underbelly while fighting. It is too risky. I think you have a beautiful cat there and try not to worry about the hissing, especially after seeing MMM's info. Once she settles in she will be worth her weight in gold and she is getting there!

Here is a little more info on the breed you may find interesting, from one of my favourite cat books.

"Legend relates that this cat lost his tail when Noah closed the Ark door too quickly. It's modern history is no less intriguing. One school of thought says that tail - less cats swam ashore to the Isle of Man, off the west coast of England, in 1588 from galleons of the Spanish Armada. Another that the cats arrived on merchant ships travelling from the Far East. Either way, the isolation of the Island allowed the tail - less trait to be perpetuated."

This book also says that the Manx is good natured and friendly - very much a family cat.

Manx cats are still widely associated with the Isle of Man, where their image appears on tourist souvenirs , coins and stamps.

Another thought after seeing Rascal's post, maybe BB hasn't been with other cats much and she IS trying to get him to play but doesn't quite know how to communicate this to Smokey. I suppose there is no way of knowing her past history or how she has been raised and treated, bless her.

AChiOAlumna · Oct 14, 2005

Thanks Lorelei and Rascal for your feedback...today, I''m hearing MUCH more hissing and "cat fighting" between them, but it never lasts more than 1 or 2 seconds and it''s always BB and not Smokey making the racket, so I haven''t been jumping in...I''ve been letting them figure it out for themselves...unless it gets bad, I''ve decided to stay out of it...

I''ve ordered the SoftPaws...just waiting for them to come in...hopefully that''ll be soon....

Lorelei · Oct 14, 2005

I don''t think the fighting will get bad Achio at this stage, you are doing the right thing by stepping back and letting them get on with it as it is something they need to do. You sound as if you are doing much better too which is great

AndyRosse · Oct 15, 2005

Just stand by with some oven mits on both hands, just in case!

But it sounds like they are just testing each other, not really going to fight.

Keep us updated!!

AChiOAlumna · Oct 15, 2005

Date: 10/15/2005 2:01:52 PM
Author: Rascal49
Just stand by with some oven mits on both hands, just in case!

But it sounds like they are just testing each other, not really going to fight.
Keep us updated!!

Rascal...you''re not far from the truth!! We''ve almost had to get out the mitts today as Smokey is getting braver and braver, which is provoking Bunny more and more...as a result, she''s lashing out more...sometimes, I let it go...other times, I get out the water bottle to calm her down. Smokey''s been chasing her round and round the house...which, of course, she''s less than thrilled with!

BTW...we''re officially naming her Bunny...

AndyRosse · Oct 15, 2005

Congrats on officially naming her!!! I love the name

And I hope your household is settling down a bit!!

Lorelei · Oct 15, 2005

Congrats too!! Does this mean she is officially named Bunny Butt or just Bunny? It seems that Smokey is having fun provoking her, you wait - soon they will be tumbling on the floor together playing, BB won''t be able to resist! You have come a long way with her and I know she will make a wonderful addition to your family! PS aunties are here if you need any more help in any way!!

ello · Oct 16, 2005

Congratulations! I hope they''ll be best of buds - she will love her new home and her new brother - or boyfriend. Have fun! More pics please!!!!

MiniMouse · Oct 16, 2005

Achi, I have just seen your post and read all the responses. You have had some terrific advice. I have 5 cats - Rupert, Molly, George, Homer and Pixie. Rupert was my ''first born'' British Blue Shorthair. I was very worried about introducing another cat, but along came Molly, British Blue, Tortoiseshell & White Shorthair and well, Rupert was placid but very interested, but Molly hissed and spat and trotted off every time he tried to get close. They never actually came to blows, but Molly''s nose was put out of joint if ever he came near. She settled in after about a month and although they are not ''bed partners'', they are happy in each other''s company. Then I acquired George, a 5 month old Himalayan. I expected Rupert to throw a fit at having another male in the house, but no, he was good and George, being young, was inquisitive more than anything else. They only took a couple of weeks to accept each other. My biggest challenge was when Homer and Pixie (George''s parents) were discarded due to the owners believing that the SARS virus came from cats (I won''t go into that). Homer was 6 years old and Pixie was 7. I expected WW3 due to 2 dominant adult males being introduced to each other. However, I only kept Rupert, Molly and George separate from Homer and Pixie for a few days. I actually allowed each ''pride'' of cats to investigate the others'' space every day (they swapped living spaces for half an hour or so, so they could get used to each others smells. After a few days I couldn''t cope with forever trying to take food and water bowls into a separate room and at the same time trying to keep cats in one room and cats out of it. In the end I just let them all get on with their own issues with each other. I was surprised that although there was hissing, a bit of growling and trotting away and inquisitive noses sniffing at different cats, there seemed to be relative harmony in the household. I totally ignored the hissing and never intervened. I let them all get on with it. I''ve now had a harmonious group of cats for 3 years. Although they don''t sleep together, they are a happy bunch. My advice to you is to PERSEVERE. Let Bunny Butt (love the name) and Smokey sort out their own differences. They may not be best buddies, but believe you me, the company of another cat in the house is far better than no other cat at all. Cats need to keep their minds active and even watching the antics of another cat is stimulating for them (what else is there for them to watch in an empty house when you''re away?). They''ll be okay, I''m sure of it. You''ve done marvellously well so far and in a very short space of time. PERSEVERE and you''ll succeed.

Remember, it is true that any cat that lies with belly exposed, is a cat that does not feel vulnerable, so you''re doing great. I have a picture of Homer which always makes me laugh, as he''s lying flat out and looks as though it''s an "after the party" shot. This picture was taken with all the other cats hanging around in the same room.

Lorelei · Oct 16, 2005

Mini he''s beautiful!

Love the picture, it would be asking too much of me to leave him like that though, my fingers are itching to get at that belly

AChiOAlumna · Oct 16, 2005

Everyone...thanks for your responses...

First, we call her Bunny Butt, but her tag will say "Bunny." I know I''ll get too many weird names and looks otherwise.

Second...Minii....I love your picture!!! How sweet!!! I just want to pet your kitty''s tummy!

Third...we''ve been watching their behaviors and 99% of the time, it''s Smokey''s instigation that leads to the altercation. He''s chasing her around the house now and definitely showing his "alpha-ness" and trying to convey to BB, "Look...I gave you your space, now it''s time to play on MY terms!" He normally ends up pinning her in a corner and so she gets REALLY defensive...I never get involved or even watch, as they need to figure this out themselves. DH, on the other hand, is extremely interested and likes to watch what''s going on, resulting in them not figuring things out because they''re aware of his presence...Oh well...they''ll get it eventually!

AndyRosse · Oct 16, 2005

LOL, I soooo love the name "Bunny Butt!!"

And it sounds like Smokey is just letting BB know who is boss! I''m sure she''ll figure it out soon!

Any more pics of the two of them?? hehe

AChiOAlumna · Oct 17, 2005

I think we had a setback tonight and maybe you guys (and gals) can help...

Tonight, BB was sleeping under the table and Smokey got brave and approached her...this is no big deal, we got through this all the time and usually it only lasts a second or two. We heard BB begin to screech like 2 cats in a full-on cat fight. We ran in to see what was going on and BB took off with Smokey chasing her all over the house...she began to spray our couch (she''s spayed, so this didn''t make sense to us!)...he was relentless and wouldn''t let up, resulting in a full-on cat fight between these 2!!! This is new to us as BB has never gotten her nose out of joint to this extent...

We separated them through use of a water bottle...we sprayed Smokey down with water and we put her in her time-out room for the evening...

So what the "H" just happened???

Lorelei · Oct 17, 2005

Stress can cause this kind of spraying in a neutered queen, sometimes some cats don''t respond fully to surgical neutering and may need hormone treatment too. It probably was stress with BB, Smokey ambushed her and frightened her. As I have said previously there is no way of knowing how she was treated before you had her, it could be that a young child was allowed to annoy her while she was sleeping or she may have been badly treated. You poor thing having to go through this, but don''t despair. She is doing great and this is a smelly little setback! Firstly make a mix , half and half of white vinegar and water and test on furniture then sponge down soiled areas. Don''t use anything with ammonia in it, or Smokey will be spraying there too! When BB is sleeping for the time being try to keep Smokey out of the way if you can, it seems that BB is worse when she has been startled from her sleep and it is still very early days, it has only been just over two weeks?

Keep going, you ARE winning!! Sometimes it can take a while to resolve these things, huge kudos to you for commtitng to BB and deciding to work it through - you will!! I had turned the most timid terrified cat into a loving lap cat a few years ago, sadly she is no longer with us. It too a long time to even let me touch her, about 3 months and about a year before she trusted me enough to even come inside the kitchen. It can be done, time and patience are they keys but you will do it. Keep in mind that BB has been through many changes in a short space of time and has done so well, you will have a terrific cat there! If the spraying continues, pop her down to your vet to check it out, but that was probably just fear related as she didn''t know where she was for a moment after being asleep and reacted accordingly. Let us know how you get on, also try positive reinforcement with Smokey and BB - when they interact well praise them accordingly, if not withold attention apart from the squirt with the water bottle if things get a little rough.

MiniMouse · Oct 18, 2005

Lorelei, I agree with you. Achi, you''re doing a great job. It''s very easy to get impatient and want cats to be friends straight away, but it rarely happens. Be patient and you will be rewarded with two great cats, who can live together okay. Hang in there!!!

Lorelei · Oct 18, 2005

Well said Mini! I know it is so easy to think yikes what have I done????? but this feeling never lasts, they will settle and you will have two great happy cats in your home! Time and patience!! The more I think about it the more I think BB is disoriented at times when she wakes up, so you have an advantage there by trying as much as you can to get Smokey to leave her alone until she wakes properly. Again hang in there - we have all been there!!!!

AChiOAlumna · Oct 18, 2005

Mini & Lorelei...thanks for your supportive comments and ideas. This morning, I finally let BB out of her time out room and she seemed back to her old self. She walked by Smokey and hissed slightly at him, but it didn''t last longer than that. DH is convinced that BB was at fault for the altercation last night, but I told him that when I went to check it out, BB was on her back hissing and swatting while Smokey was standing over her...that doesn''t sound like BB''s fault to me!!

As for the spraying, I immediately got out the Nature''s Miracle which seemed to do the trick...I love that stuff!!! Great for everything, including salsa stains!!!

Lorelei · Oct 18, 2005

It doesn''t sound like BB''s fault to me either! Smokey was just trying to goose her and get her to play! Just one disgusted hiss from BB is great news!

I would have done the same thing if someone pounced on me while I was trying to get some sleep and minding my own business

Seems like Smokey is acting like an annoying younger brother

moremoremore · Oct 18, 2005

Do they like playing with those long feathers? Or do they have fav snacks? Maybe try to get them both near eachother playing with the feather or eating treats...so they can be around eachother without having Smokey chase her wanting to play...!!

AChiOAlumna · Oct 18, 2005

Date: 10/18/2005 10:57:20 AM
Author: moremoremore
Do they like playing with those long feathers? Or do they have fav snacks? Maybe try to get them both near eachother playing with the feather or eating treats...so they can be around eachother without having Smokey chase her wanting to play...!!

We''ve tried doing that with their balls of string...Smokey will dominate the play so BB will either back away and growl or she will play and then Smokey gets excited and decides to want to play with her instead of the string!!! He''s not quite getting the message, is he??

AChiOAlumna · Oct 18, 2005

Okay...my cats are going to be the death of me...Smokey''s been chasing Bunny all over the house, so she''s afraid of him now (not that he can hurt her or anything). He''s relentless and she''s having hissy fits. It''s not fair to lock her up when he''s the problem...the water bottle''s getting a workout today...ARRGGHHH!

moremoremore · Oct 18, 2005

Argh. I definitely think it's time to stop keeping her locked up...I would just let them have a go at it. She's got to get to a point where she stands up for herself....Even if he gets a little swipe.... I'm still into the baby gate idea and keep Smokey in the confined area, letting Bunny still see him and be able to scope out the joint without him...

You're really a doll for going through all of this!

AChiOAlumna · Oct 18, 2005

Date: 10/18/2005 5:26:27 PM
Author: moremoremore
Argh. I definitely think it''s time to stop keeping her locked up...I would just let them have a go at it.

You''re really a doll for going through all of this!

MMM...thanks...right now they''re both "napping" so I''m getting a moment''s peace...we tried to let them go at it last night and that''s when she began to spray, so I had to put an end to their hissy fits...

Any other suggestions???...I''m exhausted right now...I''ve tried takling patiently with Smokey (yeah...that works!), I''ve tried giving him commands (which is a hit or miss), I''ve used the water bottle (temporary solution), and even locking her up just so they are separated and she''ll feel safe...

Blue824 · Oct 18, 2005

We had two girls and introduced a boy...I always thought the problems were because he was younger, but he really did love to irritate, chase and pounce on my eldest girl...similar activities, chasing, playing with her tail, and that just so wasn''t what she wanted. Now I''m wondering if it is just the guy-girl issue? Although we had a male and he was fine with the other girls. Sometimes Kishiu still gets too active for her, and there is hissing, sometimes they act like they''re going to swat at each other, but they solve it between themselves. I hate it when they hiss at each other or know that he is bothering Rockie, but I know that they''ll be ok. I think sometimes it is more frustrating for us to watch. But like MMM said, Bunny needs to stand up for herself. When you intervene on her behalf, she doesn''t get the chance to do so. It is natural for them to do this. It will calm down when their places are established in the household. Also, just think about all the time that they may be doing this during the afternoon while you''re at work and you come home and everything is ok, right? Sorry about the spraying, that is unfortunate, but I feel like her marking is just another sign that she isnt sure where she stands and that it isn''t totally clear to her yet. They will work it out in time, sometimes it just takes a little longer than others

AChiOAlumna · Oct 18, 2005

Thanks Blue and MMM...most of the time I do let them do their own thing, but today she was really testy with him, especially after last night...so I needed to intervene a little more than usual.

On a good note 2 good things happened today...

1) We put the SoftPaws on her in 3 minutes flat!!! We couldn't put it on her "thumbnails" but the other 8 went on easily and without any fuss from her...good thing too because she started swatting at Smokey!!

2) Once Smokey took his catnap today, her real personality came out and it's so much fun!!!! She began playing hide-n-go-seek with me and when I hid from her, she's come out of her hiding spot "trilling" for me. When I showed myself, she'd dash off to go hide again!! This went on for about 15 minutes!!! Too cute!!!

AndyRosse · Oct 18, 2005

Date: 10/18/2005 9:30:46 PM
Author: AChiOAlumna
Thanks Blue and MMM...most of the time I do let them do their own thing, but today she was really testy with him, especially after last night...so I needed to intervene a little more than usual.

On a good note 2 good things happened today...

1) We put the SoftPaws on her in 3 minutes flat!!! We couldn''t put it on her ''thumbnails'' but the other 8 went on easily and without any fuss from her...good thing too because she started swatting at Smokey!!

2) Once Smokey took his catnap today, her real personality came out and it''s so much fun!!!! She began playing hide-n-go-seek with me and when I hid from her, she''s come out of her hiding spot ''trilling'' for me. When I showed myself, she''d dash off to go hide again!! This went on for about 15 minutes!!! Too cute!!!

Oh AChiOAlumna, that is great news!!!

I can''t believe that you got the SoftPaws on her in three minutes!!!

WOW! Rascal won''t even let me touch his paws, and I''ve been trying for EIGHT years!!! LOL

And how cute is the hide and seek?!

You are doing so well!! Really! I''m sure these little fights will end soon!!

AndyRosse · Oct 18, 2005

Oh, I was just thinking, have we ever seen any pics of Smokey?? I''d love to see some if we haven''t already.

AChiOAlumna · Oct 18, 2005

Rascal...thanks for the encouraging feedback! Bunny is sleeping next to me as we type/speak!!

Here is a collage of Smokey and Sasha (before her untimely demise). Smokey is the black one...what a character!! Hopefully I''ll be able to take more pictures of Bunny to post for you!!

Maya Moonstone · Oct 18, 2005

Hi

If she likes hide and seek, she may like "retrieve" as well. Our one cat loves it! I use a small wad of paper or a small catnip mouse and throw it for him. He runs after it and brings it back, untill either he gets tired of the game or I. (most often I am the one that gets tired

)

Good luck with the "sibling" rivalry.

Maya

AChiOAlumna · Oct 18, 2005

Smokey likes to retrieve paper balls...that''s his favorite toy in fact!

Bunny likes to play with catnip mice and balls of string...no fetching/retrieving yet, but maybe that''ll come in time...

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